Did MJ Find Love In The Dark (continued)

[Ape]

I've been so busy and exhausted lately so I was waiting till I had time and attention to reply to you guys but it hasn't happened yet so I just want to say thank you so much guys for all your support and caring. It's touched my heart and made me smile at a time where smiling seems kind of difficult for me. Thank you. I wish I could give you all hugs. It's so nice to have your reactions to what I shared.

And so much wonderful posts in this thread, I feel just like Summer. Right after reading one post, you have so much to say with regards to it, then you go to the next and still the same until you finally complete reading them all and forget everything you were going to say. So I just say they are all so nice to read, and gave me much to think about. I especially loved reading about the fireflies.

 

[SoS]

^ You said that very well, Ape. Wish y' could comment on all and can't take the time to really even get into one! Amazing posts tho, that's for sure. You all are most welcome for the link. Shabuya you did it again! Wow. See what I mean about an exclaimation? After reading so many of your posts, just makes ya wanna go, "shabuya!!!" for emphasis, as a fist is thrust forth lol like maybe some sort of special body 'move' would go with the expression 'shabuya!'.

queen_g, I know what you mean about how MJ turns one syllable into several with his expressiveness, I feel he did that on the word, 'understand' toward the end of This Is It, orchestral version, just a special tone he does it in, I mean.

link for reference

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oI0hGTn9zIk

random mention - when you play the orchestral version, notice the violin at 4:27. Its like a staccato/crescendo type thingy and is very quick - when it stops, that's where I can see the very first fireflies being released, two actually at once - one on stage is released (for visual effect), the other 'one' is released at the same in the audience by someone placed there by MJ, and simultaneously another and another until there are a sufficient number for fans to have fun catching, in the peaceful, silent dark. It would go down in history as the first time (___) many people were together at a 'rock venue' with all the lights off, being as peaceful as lambs. (Security realizing all the while, they have their finger on the LIGHTS ON button lol when/if ever needed, which it wouldn't be - not in my dream *looks wistfully into the distance* )

He doesn't start the next set until all the fireflies are gone from flying around - gives him time to change costumes, drink some water etc., (lol!! y'all have to excuse me, my imagination is going wild! lol)

I can just imagine fans having their "souvenier" firefly, that they brought back from the show... after the show, MJ provided these teenie little mason jars with teenie holes in the lids. . . with This Is It, in frosted font on the front of the teenie jar ... collectors items....woah somebody stop me! LOL the music conjures all these inspirations ... its just amazing music ... the background vocals OMGoodness, so amazing SO beautiful. . . the song is so special.

Thank you for posting that SoS.

I just closed my eyes, listened and visualized something so beautiful. :girl_sigh:

yeh, i know what cha mean :girl_sigh:

 

[SoS]

I loved that firefly idea. It would have been just the right touch.


Do I really want to take us backwards in this thread?

The song, This Is It, is on our minds now. It makes perfect sense that it is our current focus. As AllForMJ brought up, the song, This Is It, seems to be showing us where MJ was at with his lady friend (if she exists) at the end of his life...a very positive place, as far as where "she" was concerned. He seems reflective, he seems sincere and earnest, and full of love, and a sense of a stronger connection perhaps, with her, has been reached than what seemed to be indicated in any of his other songs that we've listened to. It also seems to have a certain maturity to it, maybe meaning after all the time that has passed, and whatever events went on between them through the years, they now both have a more mature perspective and understanding regarding each other. But maybe, also, not all their questions that they had wanted to ask each other got answered before June 25th.

But today I heard for the first time a song that I'm quite sure this thread has brought up before in the past, but for some reason I never listened to it. It's the song Don't Walk Away. I became introduced to all of his slower, more romantic, ballads, through this thread. Someone would post about one of these songs, and I'd copy the title and go to YouTube and give it a listen to and try to see what you guys were meaning by your particular lyrical analysis of the song. You all introduced me to Butterflies, Someone Put Your Hand Out, Whatever Happens, Beautiful Girl, The Way That You're Loving Me, and some others, including the namesake of this thread, Someone In The Dark. Thank you for connecting me to all these beautiful songs! All because we've been like little detectives in here trying to see if the lyrics were maybe speaking to us about a Love Story.

The reason I think I didn't bother listening to Don't Walk Away is because it was a song written for Invincible around 2000, and when I looked over the lyrics at the time of some of you discussing it, I thought it must be about LMP. I somehow never felt, although she was a love of MJ's, that she was his SITD girl. I also thought he stopped seeing here about 1998, 99, and thought yeah, that makes sense, she just recently walked away from him so he wrote a song about his hurt over the whole thing. And then I dismissed the song.

But today I guess I "undismissed it" and came across the lines,

I close my eyes
Just to try and see you smile one more time
But it’s been so long now all I do is cry

Now I've gotten the impression more recently that LMP and MJ were still friends (and I mean friends, not anything else) in 2000. Why would it be so hard for him to picture her smile then? How would it have been so long? Even if he hadn't seen her for several months, there is a likelihood he could have seen a photo of her in a magazine or somewhere, since she's a celebrity who is photographed quite a bit.

Sounds to me this could be about girl he hadn't seen for years, and one who would not have her photograph plastered in the tabloids or anywhere else for the public eye.

The mention of some girl "walking away" has been brought up in more than one of his songs, hasn't it been? It's a recurring theme. He seems to have thought about her walking away...quite a lot, to have it turn up in multiple songs over time.

This part,

And how can I stop losing you
How can I begin to say
When there’s nothing left to do but walk away

This started to make me think, and this is a little different perspective, that he experienced some event in his past where a girl he had built some hopes on, in some form, walked away and out of his life. The "how can I stop losing you" part makes me think that he keeps reliving that event in his mind; hense, he loses her over and over again each time he relives the memory in his mind. Until he is willing to and succeeds in forgetting her and that event, he won't be able to "stop losing her." The only way he can "walk away" is if he lets go of the memory and forgets her.

Well, one thing that really stood out to me today was how many times at the end he says,

I won’t forget you girl

So she is sounding like she has somehow gotten a firm place in his soul to me. That's why I am wondering, for the first time, if this song also could be about his Love in the Dark friend.

The words,

All my dreams been broken
Don’t know where we’re going

could be meaning he doesn't know where he and his dream girl are going in the relationship, and his hopes for it, because "he's never heard a word about her" since that event of her "walking away."

Summer, see, you're not alone, I can write blogs too. (um, a long one)

I have always been blown away by the way MJ can put so much emotion (and syllables) into that one syllable word, "breathe" when singing it in One More Chance. Gives me Goosebumps.

But I was absolutely stunned, amazed, by what he did with the word "understand" in the second chorus in Don't Walk Away,

How can I begin again
How am I to understand
When there’s nothing left to do but walk away

Unbelievable! Take a listen if you don't know what I mean the next time you listen to Don't Walk Away.

So there ya are, some maybe fresh thoughts on the song, Don't Walk Away? Sorry I'm so behind you guys where this song is concerned. I know it's already been touched on in here. I don't know how I missed listening to this song after hanging around the MJ sites for almost two and half years. :doh:

It seems it had been bothering him a long time by the time DWA came out and I don't believe "she" had any idea about that, who would leave him that kind of pain after the Dangerous album?, nobody, that's what I believe, who on earth could, year after year and over and over, so I can see how you're seeing it being something he found difficult to simply forget. She may have looked at her one self, then looked at the zillions of other people who also love him and counted the seconds it might take for him to 'get over' her, and perhaps never meant to bring him pain at all or ever suspected "she" did. There are so many ways things can be, and since he's saying (in the song) he understands certain things, hopefully it means that those of us who hear,

This is it,

I've been healed

in one verse, are correct, because then it would mean that all was/is well with all souls involved and that's the really important thing

I just wanted to let you know that I'm seeing what you mean here, combined with what Justus mentioned about the song being an attempt on MJ's part, not only to draw the listening audience into his bewilderment about some things, but to also let "her" know of certain things he came to understand as well, so I can see where it lines up with:

How can I begin again
How am I to understand
When there’s nothing left to do but walk away

Keen observation on your part queen_g, thanks for sharing it.

 

[Sdeidjs]

WOW!!
:clapping: Very good!!

:cheers:

:angel:Knowledge IS Growth...Education IS The Key~~~

 

[Sdeidjs]

Sdeidjs, thank you for posting the Michael W. Smith link. Unfortunately I can't listen to it right now, cause I gotta go, but I just wanted to acknowledge your post.

I love his version of "Joyful, joyful"

.

He's an incredible Christian artist

.

*Where that yes smiley @?* I can't seem to find it lol

.

Your welcome... Yes...I whole heartedly agree Michael W.Smith...totally connects with his audience...this album (cd) World Tour is powerful and quite thought provoking truly impressive.

Although I love this whole cd...here is another good one... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kohQSqTVMc4


As far as that smiley @?...When posting on MJJC...one can either click on the quick reply or on the right click on advance response. On the advance response all the emotioncons show up on the bottom.

I am still learning all the features of this site as well and I have been here for quite some time...Smiles...I hope this helps...

:angel:Heal The World...WE Are THe World...Heal The World~~~

 

[Sdeidjs]

I was reading my email earlier and came across this intriging spiritual/ancestrial story...


The Emerald's Allure

Is green the color of heaven and the angels? Green has significant, spiritual meanings--in nature, in various faiths and cultures, and even in the Wizard of Oz.

BY: Ptolemy Tompkins

I was born in May, which makes my birthstone the emerald. This is fitting enough because I've always had a strangely close relationship with the color green.

For my birthday the year I turned 7, my mother gave me an almond-sized, rough-cut piece of transparent green stone that she said was an emerald.

Was it really? I don't know. It's long since lost, and my mother, now 88, doesn't remember it. But whatever it was, for years I kept it with a small number of other ultra-precious possessions, like a shark's tooth and a thimble-sized ceramic caveman. Like most young boys, I didn't have much appreciation for precious stones. But this little rock was different. Why? Because it was green, and green was just . . . more mysterious than other colors.

Green may be the most earthly of colors, but in the glassy depths of that magical little stone, I got a hint that it might just be the color of heaven as well.

Any decorator today will tell you that green is one of the most comforting colors, and ancient peoples knew this, too. From green Eden to the "green figs" of the Song of Solomon to the "green pastures" of Psalm 23 and the "green trees" that show up in prophetic writers like Isaiah and Jeremiah, the color green is one of the most consistent symbols of peace, plenty and consolation in the Bible.

The ancient Egyptians (who mined emeralds at a spot called Cleopatra's Mines on the Red Sea) had the same associations with this color. They connected green specifically with the goddess Nephthys, sister of Isis and the queen of the underworld. In the Egyptian vision of the afterlife, the soul of the deceased traveled to the Western Lands, a rich, reedy landscape thick with lush vegetation—like the land of Egypt itself after the Nile's annual flood. In ancient Greece the Elysian Fields filled the same role.

Similar associations continued down through the centuries. The German poet Goethe, in his masterpiece Faust, wrote that the soul sought "to rise with mighty throes to those ancestral meadows whence it came." One doesn't have to guess what color those meadows were. Meanwhile Ireland, the Emerald Isle, has long been celebrated as the closest place to heaven on earth in part because of the almost supernatural greenness of the landscape there.

But the greens of the world's lore of otherworldly landscapes aren't made up of trees and grass alone. The mystical literature of ancient Iran describes a heavenly region called the Earth of the Emerald Cities. This earth above the earth is characterized by a luminous green light that radiates from the stones (emeralds, of course) of which the buildings there are made.

L. Frank Baum probably wasn't familiar with the writings of ancient Iran's mystical sages, but he was certainly in accord with them when he created the Emerald City—the capital of the Land of Oz. This city, wrote Baum, glowed with a green light so intense that its inhabitants (themselves also green) wore green eyeglasses to protect themselves from being blinded by it.

Some have claimed that Baum based his Emerald City on the White City of the 1893 Chicago World's Fair (which he did indeed visit when he was writing of Oz). Others think that by placing those green eyeglasses on Oz's inhabitants, Baum was making a jibe at the politicians of turn-of-the-century Washington, D.C., who by ignoring the country's financial hardships were seeing the world through green-tinted glasses.

But the most likely inspiration for Baum's Emerald City was neither Chicago nor Washington, but that most famous, and glorious, of all celestial cities: the one that an angel shows John of Patmos at the climax of the Book of Revelation. Like Oz, and like Iran's Earth of the Emerald Cities, the new Jerusalem is made up of jewels that give off their own light. The emerald is fourth in a series of 12 precious stones that garnish the foundations of the wall of this city.

Is green the only color in heaven? Of course not, any more than it is the only color on earth. But it is certainly no surprise to find those glowing emeralds appearing in the final pages of Revelation. For in the glassy, bottomless green of the emerald—a green that is at once completely of the earth and yet also completely above and beyond it—we get a particularly vivid hint of what heaven will be: a strange yet impossibly familiar place.

Paraphrased by Susie
Source:Beliefnet.com

:angel:Heal The World...WE Are The World...Education IS The Key~~~

 

[Lily]

I was thinking about what has been interpreted lately in regards to the lyrics and release of the TII song and I remembered a post Moddie did when there was a discussion about how "she" would be a part of all of this or incorporated into the shows somehow. Pretty interesting actually if there is some accuracy in what has been interpreted or stated as to what the message of the TII song is all about, that it is about "someone". Maybe Moddie was right :cheeky:, this was how sharing "her" with the world was going to be done.

I know it may be far fetched but still one of my hmmmmm random thoughts :lol:.....

Ok StateofShock, This is why I believe he wanted to somehow incorporate "her" with the shows.

We learned the shows would be called "This is it". Many wondered then and now, where did that title come from. It seemed off and different from what we knew from Michael as far as hsi tours go. But in this thread we all knew, the direction of his clues and messages had taken a very intimate, romantic and direct approach that seemed to personable to be ALL about us fans.

Among the things I had said, was we usually say "This is it"( This is the one) when we are about to take that official leap before God with the ONE, whom he has chosen for us. When we have found the ONE for us and we know it. We typically want to scream it from the roof top.
Then comes the statement on the official "This is it" website, written by Michael. He repeats something 4 times before the statement even began. What is it? He says:
The time has come
The time has come
The time has come
The time has come
Is he screaming? Is shouting it from the roof top? Can you feel his excitement? Until I read the statement, I knew the excitement wasn't all about us. He said:
"It is now I see and feel that calling once again, to be part of a music that will not just connect but make all feel one, one in joy,
ONE IN PAIN, ONE IN LOVE, one in service and in conciousness".
bY placing these words together in this form( one in pain, one in love), showed me, Michael was revealing and telling us he was in fact IN LOVE and wanted to be ONE with her officially). BY giving us two very key clues connected with the 'this is it" tour, also revealed to me, he somehow was planning on MERGING the two. His love life with her and this tour
I believe he was planning on revelaing her to the world during the "This is it" Tour.
She was going to be there, this statement reveals he wanted her there too. His goal was to have us, his music, his dancing and her to ALL be together and share in this time with him Together.
Everything was going to be final and official with the THIS IS IT TOUR.

I found this quote that reminded me of when there was talk about a time machine. I thought it's meaning fit this thread well.....

"We all have our time machines. Some take us back, they're called memories. Some take us forward, they're called dreams."

 

[Asedora]

I just finished reading Rabbi Shmuley book “The Michael Jackson Tapes”. This book left very controversial feelings in my heard not only because of Rabbi Shmuley weird comments, but because Michael himself did many negative statements about women in general. I can understand it because since the age 10 and 11 he was performing at night clubs and saw women acting very vulgar in front of public.He learned about this side of life in very young age. Obviously, it left a very strong negative impression in his mind.
Once he said:I do not like most of girls.
When it was about some specific women like Liz Taylor ,Brook Shield etc, he was much more loving and caring person.
Also, he said that when he was doing casting he usually used to choose the girls he liked, but after, he said, there was a problem because those girls used fall in love with him, but it was not his concern and he didn’t want it.
The book says that once Cindy Crawford showed her interest in him, but he said that she probably just admires him cuz a lot of ppl come over.

In one dialogue he even said that pure love what he gets from children this all what he really needs and he doesn’t want any other love and romance in his life.

Also, I found him very closed person as far as the subject of conversation was related to love and romance with opposite sex. Sometimes he even didn’t answer or his answer didn’t have a specific meaning.
It makes me feel even more that his love to this “special woman” exists only in his lyrics imo.

PS.While I was reading his dialogues, a feeling that women are the biggest problem in this world never left me. But I understand why he was thinking that way. He didn't know anything better.He didn’t have anything in common with most of celebs either, like he said.
Women who tried to approach him were definitely not his type.
But, this is only what was available for super mega star like him. He even said something like that. It is very sad.

 

[Lily]

Although I don't agree with that persons motives for writing that book and I personally will never read it, I think your interpretation is interesting Asedora, especially this part:

It makes me feel even more that his love to this “special woman” exists only in his lyrics imo.

Putting all my dreaminess, imagination and wishful thinking aside, I sort of agree with this. Although in my heart I certainly wish for our interpretations to have some truth to them. I just don't know that they do. I guess some things in life are meant to never be known, but we can still dream.....

 

[Asedora]

Although I don't agree with that persons motives for writing that book and I personally will never read it, I think your interpretation is interesting Asedora, especially this part:



I guess some things in life are meant to never be known, but we can still dream.....

Oh, rabbi Shmuley is not a nice person. It is very clear. But I am not afraid to read this kind of books. I can realize what is right what is wrong. I just wanted to go through dialogues, not rabbi’s comments. And YES we can still dream..

 

[Sdeidjs]

I just finished reading Rabbi Shmuley book “The Michael Jackson Tapes”. This book left very controversial feelings in my heard not only because of Rabbi Shmuley weird comments, but because Michael himself did many negative statements about women in general. I can understand it because since the age 10 and 11 he was performing at night clubs and saw women acting very vulgar in front of public.He learned about this side of life in very young age. Obviously, it left a very strong negative impression in his mind.
Once he said:I do not like most of girls.
When it was about some specific women like Liz Taylor ,Brook Shield etc, he was much more loving and caring person.
Also, he said that when he was doing casting he usually used to choose the girls he liked, but after, he said, there were a problem because those girls used fall in love with him, but it was not his concern and he didn’t want it.
The book says that once Cindy Crawford showed her interest in him, but he said that she probably just admires him cuz a lot of ppl come over.

In one dialogue he even said that pure love what he gets from children this all what he really needs and he doesn’t want any other love and romance in his life.

Also,

I found him very closed person as far as the subject of conversation was related to love and romance with opposite sex. Sometimes he even didn’t answer or his answer didn’t have a specific meaning.

It makes me feel even more that his love to this “special woman” exists only in his lyrics imo.

PS.While I was reading his dialogues, a feeling that women are the biggest problem in this world never left me. But I understand why he was thinking that way. He didn't know anything better.He didn’t have anything in common with most of celebs either, like he said.

(Most) Women who tried to approach him were definitely not his type.

But, this is only what was available for super mega star like him. He even said something like that. It is very sad.

Each and everyone of us go through different trials, tribulations, doubts, and flustrations at certain periods throughout our life times...

Mr.Jackson has always been protective of his private life...Therefore, the "intimate" relationship a man and or a woman has with a mate is just that...private..! So I can understand his reluctancy to share with the world his thoughts on the subject.

When it comes to choosing a mate, I can totally relate to Mr.Jackson on some level...so many look on the outside (across the board for status, money, looks ect.ect,) instead of totally understanding/connecting with me on a level we both feel in side...

Basically making one feel complete..!



:angel: Heal The World...WE Are The World...Education IS The Key~~~

 

[No-Body]

Susie, thx for the help :yes: Amazing post you had there about the color green.

You guys, I know this is gonna be really strange, but when I read that I immediatly thought of "Anne of green gables", especially the anime series, not the first association one would have made, I know.

I won't post all of them links with cartoon openings I saved all night cause it would be wayyy too much, but I would like to share with you some of my favorite childhood memories. It is kinda selfish of me to post some links which have songs in Italian when most people here do not use it, not to mention a bit impolite as well, but that is the language in which I came to see them, a language I came to learn and love. I'm sure many of you have seen these in your own language.

Green gables series http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZPDMFQz5ck

There's also Heidi, probably my favorite ever cartoon series. I must have seen this about three or four times. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RI3qPvtYnv0&feature=related

Prince Valiant, an incredible story taking place at King Arthur's court http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYPJ87kfEfY

And last but not least http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6aZBuyCkmI A truly beautiful and touching story dealing with slavery in the deep South. The lyrics to the song are pretty meaningful as well.

The Japanese are truly amazing when it comes to this anime thing, aren't they? It's incredible what they did. I'm not entirely sure Prince Valiant was made there though; I think, as it was with the Smurfs series which was done in France, Prince Valiant might have also been produced in Europe; I'm not sure about it, but the design seems different to me.

If my mind serves me right, which usually doesn't, this is not the first time a cartoon has been used up in here, so I am not taking a complete detour. Sorry for highjacking the talk people.


And in a totally different line of thought now, does anybody else except fruity me think this is the calm before the storm that will be the movie? I can see an emotional roller coaster ride approaching. We better fasten our seatbelts and prepare our landing gear.

But until then, I'll leave you with another classic http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBzJGckMYO4&feature=related.

 

[Lisha]

opcorn:

 

[LindaC781]

I like that quote, Lily. I'm glad you posted it in here. It made me think of some lines of a poem MimiK posted pages and pages and pages ago. (this thread moves fast!) Here they are:

the love is old, it is not waiting,

for all time, it has been stated

in the future, and in the past

in my memory time travels fast.

I think it could be said that this "possible" romance between MJ and his SITD girl has everything to do with Time, and timing, I should think.





When was Serious Effect written and what about these lyrics point to there being a guy around "her"?

You gotta get back every rhyme
Gonna jump back
She won't get it
I got a feeling but giving you, I
And i'm so damn
So damn glad about it

I got a feeling
That your jumping around
Gon' get back
She wont get it
I gotta feeling like jumping around
And I'm so damn
So damn glad about it

Serious effect baby baby
Serious effect on
Serious effect baby baby
Serious effect on
Serious effect baby baby
Serious effect on
Serious effect baby baby
Serious
And I'm so damn glad about it

I gotta feeling
Of giving you, I
Won't jump back
She won't let it
I got a feeling
Like nothing around
And I'm so damn
So damn glad about it

She don't smoke
She don't breathe
She don't hash
She don't dope
But she's a lyer
I gotta feeling
Like nothing around
And I'm so damn
So damn glad about it

Serious effect baby baby
Serious effect on
Serious effect baby baby
Serious effect on
Serious effect baby baby
Serious effect on
Serious effect baby baby
Serious
And I'm so damn glad about it

[Rap]
She's serious
Makin' me delirious
I'm curious
Next thing I know
Hittin' us
Enjoying
The animal magnetism
She's to hot to touch
Too cool for critizism
Each and every things
Like a mini movie being filmed
'Cause I'm the captain
AND HER BODY'S THE HELM
I'm shivering, quivering
I smile while i'm delivering
Get some love and passion
It's never been
so intense and spiritual like
In sence of above, against
And all off in silence
Then i scream like a man
Out of his rich
'Cause that's how serious
A serious effect is

Serious effect baby baby
Serious effect on
Serious effect baby baby
Serious effect on
Serious effect baby baby
Serious effect on
Serious effect baby baby
Serious
And I'm so damn glad about it

Aouw!
She mentioned that I was
She mentioned that I was
(serious)
Jumpin' around
I gotta break down
(serious)
She's the one who get it
(serious)
I got a feeling
Like jumpin' around
'cause i'm so glad
(serious)
And I'm so damn glad about it

Serious effect on me baby
Serious on
Serious effect on me baby
Serious effect on
Serious effect baby baby
Serious effect on
Serious effect baby baby
Serious
And I'm so damn glad about it

And what the heck is he feeling so **** glad about? Answer that for me and I'll really make sure you get that Academy Award...or somethun!

Ooh baby baby!! How did I miss this song? Wow. What hot lyrics!

 

[8701girl]

By experience, "trust me" it does not matter if one was in the position that Mr.Jackson was/is...When one (s) have a pure, giving heart the evil ones of the world tend to "take advantage" of such kind, loving human beings. We tend to look at the good in everyone, and believe in others that we know or would think they would not stab us in the back.

People who lie, cheat, that self absorbed, and self serving etc. ect. have to look at that man in the mirror every day...and eventually...meet their maker at some point..!

Therefore, I believe in...

KARMA: Every time a person acts there is some quality of intention at the base of the mind and it is that quality rather than the outward appearance of the action that determines the effect. If a person professes piety and virtue but nonetheless acts with greed, anger or hatred (veiled behind an outward display of well-meaning intent) then the fruit of those actions will bear testimony to the fundamental intention that lay behind them and will be a cause for future unhappiness. The Buddha spoke of wholesome actions that result in happiness, and unwholesome actions that result in unhappiness.and again...

Again...by personal experience...God truly has a "very unique" sense of humor...

Judgement day may take days, months, years, even decades...but at some point in time and space "what goes around...WILL eventually come around" one way or the other..!

:angel:Knowledge IS Growth...Education IS The Key~~~

When ppl say those two words "trust me". they can easily mislead you. They trick u into beliving that they are helping you for the better- when in truth they are not. Thats why its always best to keep both your eyes & ears open at all times- never keep them shut!

 

[Asedora]

I have a question, ladies. Anybody here in this thread ever paid attention to “Invincible” lyrics? This is a very beautiful and powerful song ,I think. And “she” is there again LOL. Lyrics was not correct 100% from my point of view. In brackets I put a correct word the way how I hear it and it does make sense. If you think it is my mistake pls, let me know. BTW when this lyrics were written? This song is just SO good

If I could tear down these walls that keep you and I apart
I know I could claim your heart and our perfect love will start
But girl you just won’t approve of the things that I do
When all I do is for you but still you say it ain’t cool

If there’s somebody else, he can’t love you like me
And he says he’ll treat you well, he can’t treat you like me
And he’s buying diamonds and pearls, he can’t do it like me
And he’s talking [taking] you all across the world, he can’t trick [treat] you like me

[CHORUS]
So why ain’t you feelin’ me, she’s invincible
But I can do anything, she’s invincible
Even when I beg and plead, she’s invincible
Girl won’t give in to me, she’s invincible

Now many times I’ve told you of all the things I would do
But I cant seem to get through no matter how I try to
So tell me how does it seem that you ain’t checking for me
When I know that I could be more than you could ever dream

If there’s somebody else, he can’t love you like me
And he says he’ll treat you well, he can’t treat you like me
And he’s buying diamonds and pearls, he can’t do it like me
And he’s talking [taking] you all across the world, he can’t trick [treat] you like me

[CHORUS]

Now some way I’ll have to prove all that I said I would do
Giving you everything, fulfilling your fantasy
Then maybe you’ll change your mind and finally give in time
Then I’ll be showing you what other men are supposed to do for you my baby

[RAP]

[CHORUS x 3]

 

[Lisha]

opcorn:

 

[AllForMJ]

I just finished reading Rabbi Shmuley book “The Michael Jackson Tapes”. This book left very controversial feelings in my heard not only because of Rabbi Shmuley weird comments, but because Michael himself did many negative statements about women in general. I can understand it because since the age 10 and 11 he was performing at night clubs and saw women acting very vulgar in front of public.He learned about this side of life in very young age. Obviously, it left a very strong negative impression in his mind.
Once he said:I do not like most of girls.
When it was about some specific women like Liz Taylor ,Brook Shield etc, he was much more loving and caring person.
Also, he said that when he was doing casting he usually used to choose the girls he liked, but after, he said, there was a problem because those girls used fall in love with him, but it was not his concern and he didn’t want it.
The book says that once Cindy Crawford showed her interest in him, but he said that she probably just admires him cuz a lot of ppl come over.

In one dialogue he even said that pure love what he gets from children this all what he really needs and he doesn’t want any other love and romance in his life.

Also, I found him very closed person as far as the subject of conversation was related to love and romance with opposite sex. Sometimes he even didn’t answer or his answer didn’t have a specific meaning.
It makes me feel even more that his love to this “special woman” exists only in his lyrics imo.

PS.While I was reading his dialogues, a feeling that women are the biggest problem in this world never left me. But I understand why he was thinking that way. He didn't know anything better.He didn’t have anything in common with most of celebs either, like he said.
Women who tried to approach him were definitely not his type.
But, this is only what was available for super mega star like him. He even said something like that. It is very sad.

Having Rabbi Shmuley as a friend is equivalent to playing with a rattle snake in the desert. I wonder how much money he's trying to make off of Michael with his book?

Also, it was when Michael was friends with this Rabbi that he recorded sad love songs...one filled with tears...like what we hear on his "Invincible" CD. It was when he was hanging around with this negative and deceitful Rabbi that we got a speech filled with tears like the Oxford Speech.

It was after Michael stopped being friends with this Rabbi that we got the song "One More Chance." It was also when Michael stopped being friends with this Rabbi that we started seeing him smile again.

This Rabbi claimed he could find the perfect woman for Michael, but from listening to the beautiful love songs that Michael started releasing after getting rid of the Rabbi, it turns out Michael did not need him to do anything for him at all. Notice that in the song "The Way You Love Me," which is a very sweet and loving song, Michael reveals that Heaven sent his lady friend to him.

In other words, God had something else in mind and what God wanted for Michael superceded what the Rabbi wanted. From listening to the way that Michael's love songs mellowed out in tone, God wanted Michael's soul to be calmed. Notice that his tears stopped at the same time that he love songs sweetened.

From looking at the way that the Rabbi wrote this book, what he mainly wanted out of Michael was money. How much did you waste on it?

 

[SoS]

^ great post ! I also get the feeling Michael (being he is intentional when it comes to what he decides to have be public) had a purpose at the time, for a lot of his answers. For instance, its very unlike him to feel comfy coming close to "bashing" someone (eg., Madonna) and a few other things that seemed quite an interesting opposite to the way he normally presents himself and what he's about, so I dunno ... I feel there's a lot more than is being told, or maybe even known to Schmutly for that matter, who knows with someone as intricate as MJ.

Thanks Asedora for posting it for sure, great contribution to the discussion :flowers:

queen_g, before I could answer that question for you (what are my benefits again? lol an Oscar? wowza wowza!) we'd have to agree on the lyrics, and well, y'know ... sry, hear smthg different ... no time to post it tonight ...sry again tho but I'll answer your question when I get some down time.

edit: I have scanned some enjoyable posts, no time to really read. Thanks for compliment on my artistic direction queen_g! lol yes, that words' sounding punched in adds something ... I guess a sense of intent, like he hopes she('ll) understand/s.

I can't wait to return to really read a few pages back. You guys are on a roll

 

[8701girl]

^ great post ! I also get the feeling Michael (being he is intentional when it comes to what he decides to have be public) had a purpose at the time, for a lot of his answers. For instance, its very unlike him to feel comfy coming close to "bashing" someone (eg., Madonna)

I dont think michael liked to "verbally dis ppl out" but i guess he was speaking the way he felt in his heart. What annoys me though is that it seems to be ok to verbally bash mike out, but not the other way round?? u guys know what i mean? It like mike was never "allowed" to say how he felt bout ppl , but it was ok for ppl to say stuff bout him...i still dont understand how did human beings become so cruel & so unjust??

 

[Lisha]

opcorn:

 

[Asedora]

Having Rabbi Shmuley as a friend is equivalent to playing with a rattle snake in the desert. I wonder how much money he's trying to make off of Michael with his book?

Also, it was when Michael was friends with this Rabbi that he recorded sad love songs...one filled with tears...like what we hear on his "Invincible" CD. It was when he was hanging around with this negative and deceitful Rabbi that we got a speech filled with tears like the Oxford Speech.

It was after Michael stopped being friends with this Rabbi that we got the song "One More Chance." It was also when Michael stopped being friends with this Rabbi that we started seeing him smile again.

This Rabbi claimed he could find the perfect woman for Michael, but from listening to the beautiful love songs that Michael started releasing after getting rid of the Rabbi, it turns out Michael did not need him to do anything for him at all. Notice that in the song "The Way You Love Me," which is a very sweet and loving song, Michael reveals that Heaven sent his lady friend to him.

In other words, God had something else in mind and what God wanted for Michael superceded what the Rabbi wanted. From listening to the way that Michael's love songs mellowed out in tone, God wanted Michael's soul to be calmed. Notice that his tears stopped at the same time that he love songs sweetened.

From looking at the way that the Rabbi wrote this book, what he mainly wanted out of Michael was money. How much did you waste on it?

Rabbi is a terrible guy I know, but I got this book for myself because:

1. Some dialogues have a very high value for me. It helps to understand his world on a different way and the tragedy of his life. It is very important for me, for my own soul.

2. Rabbi said that all money will go to some kids charity organizations .
If it won’t happen, it will mean to me that Rabbi is a liar in front of the eyes of God and it will be HIS sin, not mine. If Shmuley wants this sin, I do not care. It is his problem now, not mine.
At the same time I am NOT going to see “This Is It” movie, because nobody promised that the money will be used “To Heal The World”. I am not paying a penny to fat cats like AEG and SONY.
This is how I deal with things like that.
Also, my advice if you feel you are not able to ignore weird rabbi’s comments and they will affect you on a bad way DO NOT BUY this book. I doesn’t affect me , I know how to deal with this kind of stuff. No matter what I liked about this book and what I didn’t like, nothing changed. I still love Michael the same, love his music, love him as a person and I deeply admire his talent.
Also, I agree that at the time when Michael was with Shmuley, it was the worst time in MJ life. Shmuley and Geller are not nice ppl. It is very true.

But I wouldn’t say that it somehow affected his relationships with “her” in his lyrics. I wouldn’t apply one to another. In his last album “Invincible” we still have songs like "You Rock My World" , “Butterflies”, “Speechless”.
The Lyrics of “One more chance of love” song in my opinion is more sad than “Invincible” lyrics because it feels like it is his last chance . This is how I understand this song, but everybody is different.

Take care everybody.

 

[No-Body]

Asedora, I understand why you wanted to buy the book - to get a better perspective into Michael's world view and his opinions on life. I totally understand that. I know that a few weeks ago there was pdf circulating that had only Michael's quotes, without the 'wisdom' of the 'good' Boteach. That seemed to me like the perfect thing - reading Mike's words without giving that schmuck a dime. Unfortunately, the file I downloaded was corrupted. Btw, if anybody can help with that, would be greatly appreciated.

I certainly agree with you about YRMW, Butterflies and above all Speechless. It is my favorite song EVER. I clearly remember crying my eyes out when first listening to it; I still do almost all the time. That is such a powerful song that anyone who hears it can get from it whatever they like. I remember someone talking about their brother who was lost on 9/11. One can easily see it relate to one's children, one's parents, friends wherever each is on their life path. For me, it used to be a very spiritual song, about God; lately I've heard it in the key of another's heart in which one can find home and sanctuary.

"I don't care about "Stars and Bangles"...I just want you.

Queen g, that is indeed a beautiful line and a beautiful love. One of the cartoon videos I was watching last night, actually a collage of images had some very nice words at the end: there are no perfect love stories, because man isn't perfect...but there are great loves that can grow until reaching infinity.

And infinity can certainly be found in a masterpiece such as Satchmo's We have all the time in the world http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-82VZ521iY0&feature=related He really was a genius. Sooo many great songs: When the saints go marching in, Dream a little dream, Nobody knows the troubles I've seen. I have to confess that I wasn't familiar with the latter, but I was very impressed by it. I also discovered Sam Cooke did a beautiful version as well http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQzlzH5wymc&feature=related



All the anime talk earlier got me thinking about Japan and the immense love it showed Michael throughout his life. A truly beautiful moment was the MTV awards in 2006, when he made his first public appearance after the trial. The video isn't of great quality, but the images are priceless http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNIy6c9BsMw

There are a few moments that are just beyond words, so very touching and emotional. His voice cracking with emotion at 6:35 when he says 'kind', his eyes filling up with tears at the amazement and realization that people still loved him at 6:53, the extra coolness around minute 7 lol and the sweetness of the whole ending at 7:29-32, the way he says so nicely “thank you so, sooo much”, backs away from the mic and gives his content lil' peace sign. Such an honest, beautiful moment.

It is terrible to think that the trial made him doubt his own ability to draw people and the world's love for him. The media sure did give it a great try at proving that he was no longer relevant, but as that moment showed his legacy was intact and I am convinced the movie will only help cement it.

 

[Asedora]

^ My impression is that the bulk of the song's lyrics (Invincible) are speaking about all his communication he is trying to have with "her" (the proposed SITD girl) through his songs over the years.

Everytime he says "I told you" I think he means in his lyrics in various songs. And because he hasn't heard from her after all this time, he concludes it's not seeming to be working, even with all his efforts.

And not just his songs... but all the ways he's impressed the world in his career...all his awards, all his meeting presidents and important people, all his stadium filled concerts, all his short films, all his entries in the Guinness Book of Records...or how he can offer diamonds and pearls and traveling...and on and on. It doesn't appear that she is catching what he's all about, and being impressed by it.

His questions are, "Why isn't it working? What is it going to take for this girl to notice me and reach out to me?" and "How is she not hearing my songs and getting my messages?" and "How can the whole world be bowing at my feet and she doesn't turn my way?" The only explanation he comes up with is...she must be invincible.

So now that he concludes she is invincible does he let it rest?

Well, it seems like the song Invincible itself...is another attempt yet...to get through. He keeps tryin'. Awww.

Anyway, those are just some of my thoughts. It would be nice to hear some others.

(also, I think the answers to most of those questions, if he was asking them like I am suggesting, could have been found all along for him in his short film, The Way You Make Me Feel)

But the man that wrote Invincible was a man about forty, who had not gone through that trial yet, and subsequently, not yet been refined by God through it, and had not yet gained perhaps a new perspective on life and what really matters to him and a greater understanding of himself, like the man of fifty, that he was, before he died.

Very good analysis. I think this song was definitely a message for “her”( a woman in his mind). This is why he even called an album “Invincible” to make “her” to pay attention to such a big event in the music industry????. Maybe he was thinking that way it will get “her” mind to this album? And, the lyrics says about a man beside her. Somehow in MJ mind “she” was not alone anymore and “he was taking "her" across the world”. In the end no matter what he did, she didn’t hear him. It is sad. I really LOVE this song.


Edit:Edit:Even if she heard him, how in the world she would contact him and how would he recognize her? She would look like another crazy women, trying to reach him. So, once again it is God’s prerogative to deal with things like that. Michael is not the one in this world who didn’t find love. He was a very special one who needed it more..We do not know anything about this world, but it feels like it is not about love imo.

 

[Asedora]

Asedora, I understand why you wanted to buy the book - to get a better perspective into Michael's world view and his opinions on life. I totally understand that. I know that a few weeks ago there was pdf circulating that had only Michael's quotes, without the 'wisdom' of the 'good' Boteach. That seemed to me like the perfect thing - reading Mike's words without giving that schmuck a dime. Unfortunately, the file I downloaded was corrupted. Btw, if anybody can help with that, would be greatly appreciated.
.

You wanted to get a scan copy of some parts of the book? The whole thing is almost 300 pages.

 

[Lainy]

I didn't buy the Rabbi book's, in my opinion he should have used the Michael's conversations, but without his unfortunate comments, so each of us can interpret the way that we find most convenient, because we're not interested in knowing the of Rabbi Shmuley Boteach opinion, but in that Michael had to say, he always has something new to teach us.

I downloaded the book without the hateful comments of the rabbi, and I must confess that I agree with Asedora, we learned much with Michael's words, we learned about his and be better, a appreciate the small and simple things of our life, that usually in go unnoticed...

I love Michael even more, he's really a sensitive man and aware to the world's pains... he has his fears, his pains ... and now more than ever I'm united his past and present sufferings.

 

[8701girl]

I do feel ''one more chance'' was about him asking the world 2 give him one more chance to be able to still give his special gift 2 the world again- not be judged or redicuiled while doing it.

 

[Asedora]

I do feel ''one more chance'' was about him asking the world 2 give him one more chance to be able to still give his special gift 2 the world again- not be judged or redicuiled while doing it.

Like I said everybody is different. I see and feel it was his last chance to find "her" (the woman of his dream and his imagination) imo.

Searching for that one who is going to make me whole
Help me make these mysteries unfold
Hold on
Lightning about to strike in rain only on me
Hurt so bad sometimes it's hard to breathe
Oh why why
If you see her
Tell her this from me
All I need is

One more chance at love

Sounds like another msg. for "her" but it was the last one. Very sad.

PS. Just my opinion. I am a crazy poetry fan.

 

[SoS]

Could it, like some other things seem to, serve a dual purpose? I feel so.

Speaking of double messages, did anyone see the thread about the TMZ article about the message with the roses? The, "you make me soooo happy" message he gave to the fans outside his hotel?

It seems that when he said, "I can feel your energy through the walls" he literally meant through the physical structure of the hotel walls!

Interesting how things can be seen when left to interpretation. I don't mean to blow anyone's DMFLITD mood if it did, just goes to show, imho, we can't take everything as having a double meaning, or in some cases, maybe not any "meaning" beyond what the artist feels at a given time.

I still see the "story" (or more than one or two) in the music though. I agree with what you said, Asadora about OMC too. I do feel he did receive some 'answer' to the 'call' of that song though. In his 'final' song, he seemed to be saying he got some of his questions answered (when he said, "help me make these mysteries unfold" - the "mystery of where "she'd" been all that time, why she hadn't responded, why he felt her fever from miles around and wondered "why ain't she feelin' me!" in Invincible) -

- in the new song, where he repeats, "you said", in different places, one of those being, "you said you wanted to go with me all the while" - so that tells me he found that out in times more recent than OMC. So in a way, perhaps he got his one more chance at love.

Maybe not the chance to be with her in the fullest sense, but the chance to love "her" and be "loved" by her (maybe not physically) and perhaps in even more meaningful and lasting ways than picking her up in his car to "paint the town", or things they wanted to say and do to eachother "in the closet"

- wouldn't it be nice if they "met" in a Different kind of "closet" ... *looks away wistfully* ... a spiritual closet

He said he knew the love was real. That's what I love the most. If our interpretations are at all close, then maybe he did end up feeling he'd gotten his "one more chance at love" afterall, in a way he apparently didn't expect.

I noticed two interpretations of his lyrics in This Is It. One says, "falling in love wasn't my plan" and the other says, "falling in love was in my plan".

Could it be both? With MJ, who knows, and I guess we may as well say why not.

 

[Asedora]

I noticed two interpretations of his lyrics in This Is It. One says, "falling in love wasn't my plan" and the other says, "falling in love was in my plan".

Could it be both? With MJ, who knows, and I guess we may as well say why not.

IMO it cannot be both. You have to see the context.
"falling in love wasn't in my plan".
is correct version imo, because the next line is: " I never thought that I would be your lover"
If you put it like this:

"falling in love was in my plan".
I never thought that I would be your lover"

It doesn't make any freaking sense imo.


Also, the line:"And you said won’t you go with me, on a while" or "you wanted to go with on a while" are two different things. I prefer the first one. It makes sense to me and I like it better that way
You wanted to go with me on a while - makes sense too. But I thik this line is not that important because the main meaning is not here.My opinion

It seems that when he said, "I can feel your energy through the walls" he literally meant through the physical structure of the hotel walls!

I do not think so. If he meant physical walls it seems hilarious to me. He was sitting in the hotel, she was staying outside and he was feeling her energy that way? That way he just had better to get out from the hotel and check out each female fan LOL When was this note was given to the fans?

Remeber the lyrics Invincible. This is the same "walls" IMO

If I could tear down these walls that keep you and I apart
Again just my opinion