MJ's Team Shutting out & Blockin the Family?

[Autumn II]

I don´t get it.
Let´s say Michael was afraid of Tohme but Tohme was fired and shouldn´t be near Michael after that.If Michael thought his lifeguards was working for Tohme he would have fired them to.

As we know, Tohme never entirely went away. Weeks after he was fired he said on tv that he was "still Michael's manager until further notice." I don't have time to look up the Youtube, but a lot of us heard it. Then, at the press-conference at the hospital, he spoke FIRST, and then Jermaine. So clearly he was still there in some capacity. We don't know if he gave Michael back his keys to the house, or if the security codes were changed after he was fired, or not? Or what?

I don't think Michael could have fired the body-guards. They were paid by AEG and I doubt Michael had the capacity to fire someone who was not his employee. AEG was paying the house-rent, the staff, and so on. Randy Phillips SAID so.

 

[kasume]

Why is it that Michael had to deal with all these bloodsuckers and "close friends", and all their crap they carry with them, but not other artists. The circus of people surrounding the lives of other celebrities isn't even half as crazy as Michael's.

I just find it STRANGE, that it is ONLY Michael who has to deal with a mountain high load of garbage. It's not even like DESTROY Michael or KILL him. More like ANNIHILATE him, obliterate the very light that he was so that no one will ever know or remembered it exsisted. Sometimes I even wondered when Michael was alive how he dealt with so much mess. I figured he just ignored most of it. That's what I would do. What else could I do? No matter how much I face the circus surrounding me, it will NEVER go away, just like the dark forces that have tried smothering the light from the very beginning of time.

 

[Moddie777]

I believe what Michael said, in his own words, about being afraid of Tohme. I believe Frank DiLeo in this instance, that Michael's access to others was limited. I see no reason to disbelieve either of them, and especially Michael. Doesn't matter which fan he saw briefly on what day. I still believe what he said. So either he didn't say it (that was a hoax-voice on the phone? But. . it wasn't), or he did say it. If he did, that answers the topic of this thread. He did not say HE blocked certain people for his convenience. He SAID he was being too controlled by Tohme. Also, either one believes Frank, or one does not. In this instance, I do. And I believe Michael.

Thank You!!!

Since Michael's Murder there have been numerous reports from family members, friends and business associates about the fact that Blocking was a problem especially in the last days and weeks of MJ's life.

Not to mention the constant reports we read about and heard of during his lifetime.

Any fan who wants to uncover the truth behind Michael Jackson's Murder, will not completely discount this thread or any thread in the I.U. Forum.

We all need to step back and pay attention to the real problems in this section and it's not "our" Investigative work, theories, or speculation".

It is being noticed by many fans what is happening in this section.

 

[Krshna28]

Who actually trusts Michael's Family???????

Michael didn't that's for sure.

In the recent years, how often have you read of a sighting of Michael with Janet, Latoya and Jermaine????????

 

[Soundmind]

Really??.....But it was Marlon that Michael spoke to the night before he died telling him of his heart problems that night and how the doctor didn't want to take him to the hospital. Marlon has always been one of the closet brothers to Michael. I'm sorry, but I think that story is made up. We're MJ fans, we don't believe every crap tabloids tell us about Michael.

can you please give me a link to that story?

Marlon last spoke with MJ during the family meeting in May, Marlon claimed Frank told him MJ was complaining the day before his death of chest pain , but he was told after MJ died . and if I remember correctly Frank denied ever telling Marlon anything .

as for the interview , search for hi interview it was a week after a story was printed in the same tabloid on MJ taking drugs to control his sexual desires toward little boys THE SAME TABLOID.

 

[Soundmind]

As we know, Tohme never entirely went away. Weeks after he was fired he said on tv that he was "still Michael's manager until further notice." I don't have time to look up the Youtube, but a lot of us heard it. Then, at the press-conference at the hospital, he spoke FIRST, and then Jermaine. So clearly he was still there in some capacity. We don't know if he gave Michael back his keys to the house, or if the security codes were changed after he was fired, or not? Or what?

I don't think Michael could have fired the body-guards. They were paid by AEG and I doubt Michael had the capacity to fire someone who was not his employee. AEG was paying the house-rent, the staff, and so on. Randy Phillips SAID so.

Tohme is on record saying he was fired before MJ's death, we all remember the Raymone lawsuit, he refused to get a notice of the lawsuit, and admitted he could not reach MJ to inform him about it , he admitted he had no power or authority to receive anything on behalf of mj , did not represent him in any capacity , we all remember the delay in responding to Raymone Bain and how frustrated we were on this forum .

MJ's tape was recorderd in the summer of 2008 , in November or December Tohme got colony capital to help MJ out , and at the same time he broke the deal with AEG . all the big things happened AFTER THAT PHONE CALL .

and when Tohme screwed up with the Julian auction his ass was fired before he could open his eyes .

the bodyguards , the one close to MJ were there before MJ met Tohme and before AEG, they had nothing to do with AEG , yes after MJ signed the deal AEG paid for everything associated with the concerts and his security was one of many things , but to always try to suggest that MJ could not keep a roof over his head and AEG were controlling him because he was so poooooooor and helpless it is really absurd , the mansion he was living in in Vegas was still rented by MJ and everything was paid , that mansion was rented before AEG and Tohme . His things were removed from that mansion after his death , the owner did not sue the estate for rent but for damages to the interior and exterior design .


when people stop suggesting MJ only did the concerts because he was so desperate for money ? his financial situation was very stable at the time .

he could not afford a house, he could not afford security guards, he could not afford to pay balloons for paris , this is sound very ridiculous.

Klien or Metzeger mentioned an incident at his mansion in LA , when one of them asked him to help out a boy with a rare skin disease, he went upstairs brought $ 200.000 and handed it to the doctor . and $ 5 millions in cash were there with Tohme .


"I don't think MJ could fire anyone" :smilerolleyes:he fired Tohme of all people did not he ?

 

[KingOfPop1]

Tohme is on record saying he was fired before MJ's death, we all remember the Raymone lawsuit, he refused to get a notice of the lawsuit, and admitted he could not reach MJ to inform him about it , he admitted he had no power or authority to receive anything on behalf of mj , did not represent him in any capacity , we all remember the delay in responding to Raymone Bain and how frustrated we were on this forum .

Actually to be clear -

The process server served Michael's bodyguards and one of the bodyguards decided it would be prudent to give the paperwork to Dr. Tohme. So the question remains who did the bodyguards work for? AEG? Michael? Or Dr. Tohme? Dr. Tohme relieved everyone from duty in the house the day Michael died. How did he have that authority?

MJ's tape was recorderd in the summer of 2008 , in November or December Tohme got colony capital to help MJ out , and at the same time he broke the deal with AEG . all the big things happened AFTER THAT PHONE CALL .

Yes but Frank DiLeo released the recording, right? Frank said that Michael was fearful of Dr. Tohme and that Dr. Tohme was blocking Michael from many people - family, lawyers, friends, etc.

and when Tohme screwed up with the Julian auction his ass was fired before he could open his eyes .

Actually he wasn't. He was dismissed around March/April. Possibly even May on 2009. Frank DiLeo was acting manager but Tohme was intrinsicly tied into Michael's business affairs, including the presidency of MJJ Production and some ownership of Neverland.

the bodyguards , the one close to MJ were there before MJ met Tohme and before AEG, they had nothing to do with AEG , yes after MJ signed the deal AEG paid for everything associated with the concerts and his security was one of many things , but to always try to suggest that MJ could not keep a roof over his head and AEG were controlling him because he was so poooooooor and helpless it is really absurd , the mansion he was living in in Vegas was still rented by MJ and everything was paid , that mansion was rented before AEG and Tohme . His things were removed from that mansion after his death , the owner did not sue the estate for rent but for damages to the interior and exterior design .

OK

when people stop suggesting MJ only did the concerts because he was so desperate for money ? his financial situation was very stable at the time .

Because according to Randy Phillips, Frank DiLeo and Dr. Tohme, Michael was in financial dire straits and they brought him out of financial difficulties. Just read the LA Times article when Phillips basically threatened Michael about performing. Hell, he said Michael would be in financial ruin and it was a do or die moment, remember? Michael's financial situation was stable because he was on BORROWED MONEY. It wasn't HIS.

he could not afford a house, he could not afford security guards, he could not afford to pay balloons for paris , this is sound very ridiculous.

AEG paid for the house and bodyguards. They paid for the doctor and Michael's entire staff. Karen Faye, Michael Bush - all under contract with AEG not Michael Jackson.

Klien or Metzeger mentioned an incident at his mansion in LA , when one of them asked him to help out a boy with a rare skin disease, he went upstairs brought $ 200.000 and handed it to the doctor . and $ 5 millions in cash were there with Tohme .

200,000.00 is like 20 dollars to Michael Jackson. Of course he had cash on hand. But he did NOT have millions liquid and that is an absolute, indisputable FACT.

"I don't think MJ could fire anyone" he fired Tohme of all people did not he ?

See explanation above.

 

[Soundmind]

Tohme relieved everyone from duty in the house the day Michael died. How did he have that authority?

that the thing that keeps my mind open regarding this whole conspiracy story and how if any the surveillance were removed from the house ? why for God's sake Tohme felt he needed to get everyone out of that house before the police arrived ?

by the way , he went to the hospital , he was there with jermaine , when did he go to the house ? and if MJ's fate was not known at the time , why he felt he would get away with firing everyone? why did he felt he had to fire them ? these things do not ring right to me at all .

Yes but Frank DiLeo released the recording, right? Frank said that Michael was fearful of Dr. Tohme and that Dr. Tohme was blocking Michael from many people - family, lawyers, friends, etc.

but Frank supposedly is in AEG pockets so why would he go off on Tohme publicly if they were on the same boat ?

as I said before Tohme is really shady to me , from the 5 millions he kept and I'm sure mj had no idea about it , to the firing of employees , as for blocking friends , lawyers and family members . He was not that powerful before the colony capital signed the deal with MJ, jermaine was obviously there , maybe MJ needed better negotiations terms for neverland and felt Tohme was not doing his best . when Tohme was exactly hired as MJ's manager ?

Because according to Randy Phillips, Frank DiLeo and Dr. Tohme, Michael was in financial dire straits and they brought him out of financial difficulties. Just read the LA Times article when Phillips basically threatened Michael about performing. Hell, he said Michael would be in financial ruin and it was a do or die moment, remember? Michael's financial situation was stable because he was on BORROWED MONEY. It wasn't HIS.

according to Barack MJ was living in a very poor department in Las vegas, that was how he described his financial state when he first met him , that was in an article a month before MJ's death ? but MJ was living in a mansion .

and MJ signed a hundreds of millions deal with AEG , there were penalties if he pulled off , so they were answering people who were questioning them for trusting MJ , they were saying he would be destroyed financially if he backed out of this deal , which was very true and understandable .

but before MJ signed the deal with them , he had no need to hire Karen , Bush ,murray, more bodyguards or even rent another mansion in LA . He already refinanced his loans , he was going to pay it in three to four years , he kept half of neverland , which was again debt-free . he was going to get enough for his expenses , more than ten millions a year under the new refinancing deal . His financial situation was really stable at the time , but ofcourse once he signed that deal , he had no option but to go to the end with it else he would be in financial disaster, again not unusual at all in the business world .

MJ had no liabilities for these people before he signed the deal , they did not help him at all with the refinancing deal, they were not part of it at all, neverland deal was also a separate thing , he wanted to comeback big , he was offered the right platform and people expected from him to be at the same level of professionalism , it was no joke, hundreds of millions were at stack .

 

[Autumn II]

MJ had no liabilities for these people before he signed the deal , they did not help him at all with the refinancing deal, they were not part of it at all, neverland deal was also a separate thing , he wanted to comeback big , he was offered the right platform and people expected from him to be at the same level of professionalism , it was no joke, hundreds of millions were at stack .

What is bolded above is factually inaccurate. This all seems so very circular now, and nearly every thread is overtaken with nearly endless defenses. We all grow weary. . . . . I'll respond to just this one, thing right now, because this is simply not accurate information, and probably most people who post here know it?

Michael was IN DEBT to AEG before he even signed any formal contracts with them, that we know of. They paid the court settlement FOR him (I'm assuming a loan) in the case with the Prince of Bahrain.

Colony Capital refinanced Neverland. Tohme is a partner in Colony Capital. Tohme and Randy Phillips, of AEG, have a relationship by marriage. Therefore there is not a DIRECT relationship, but there IS one that is worth exploring.

And then, as Michael prepared for the concerts, AEG paid his rent, his staff, and I'm sure other expenses. What this meant in practice was that Michael was not the employer of his own security staff, and one can assume that he could not hire or fire because he was NOT the employer. He was not, technically, the employer of his security, his chef, or even the people who cleaned his house, OR his doctor. AEG was going to pay Murray, but then, of course, Michael died. I'm not saying this figures into Michael's murder, but that it is certainly worthy of noting in an investigative unit such as this one.

Randy Phillips, Tohme, and Frank DiLeo ALL said Michael's financial situation was not good. Read in the DiLeo interview thread. He said this was the FIRST time Michael didn't hire his own videography crew, because he couldn't AFFORD them. I think very few of his assets were liquid. . . . . .

 

[Soundmind]

Say what you will, Tohme was able to get Jackson working again. Tohme says that he has known the Jackson family for years, and that Jermaine asked Tohme to help his brother out in early 2008 when Neverland faced foreclosure.

Tohme had done some work with Colony Capital, which has done $39 billion worth of transactions since 1991 and owns 9% of French retailer Carrefour. Tohme persuaded Colony's Barrack to meet with Michael in Las Vegas at the rented stucco compound where the King of Pop and his kids were living. Colony owns the Vegas Hilton, and Barrack had played a role in resuscitating the career of Barry Manilow via a five-year run of shows there

see Tohme was first appointed in early 2008 .the phone call was made in the summer of 2008 , and all the major contracts happened way after that phone call .

Barrack also has a ranch near Neverland, and he expressed interest in both Neverland and some kind of permanent Vegas show based on Jackson's music. He in turn spoke to Phil Anschutz, the owner of AEG (it stands for Anschutz Entertainment Group), which led to a meeting between Anschutz and Jackson at the MGM Grand late last year. Jackson was "very laser focused," says AEG Live's Phillips, who also attended. "He wanted to meet the guy who owned the company."

AEG and Tohme subsequently hashed out Jackson's deal for what eventually became 50 shows. Among its terms: Jackson would get 90% of all profits, and AEG would advance some $15 million toward the purchase of a palatial house that had been built by Prince Jefri of Brunei in Las Vegas, which had been listed for more than $100 million and which Jackson envisioned as his new Neverland.

But first AEG had to pay $5 million to Sheikh Abdulla to finally settle his dispute with Jackson (a figure that hasn't previously been disclosed). Tohme worked on other deals on Jackson's behalf, including one for a "Thriller"-based show on Broadway, TV specials, a film, and even a casino.

MJ was not in debt to AEG before they signed the contract , MJ had an agreement with them , part of the agreement was to pay for the Sheikh . AEG would not have paid for Karen, for murray, for Bush , for more security guards , for the Holmby Hills mansion ...etc

because unless there was a contract with them , MJ wounld not have any financial obligations to anyone beside the Sheikh . are you saying MJ signed the deal just to pay 5 millions to the sheikh ?

as for the videography crew what's the big deal anyway , MJ was to get 90% of the profits from anything he had done with AEG , after all expenses were recovered , again if there was no contract , AEG wounld not have hired anyone or paid anyone becuase there was NO NEED for anyone .

Everything was part of the show, all of these people were part of the concert, and Michael had an agreement that AEG would pay everyone . fair enough .

are you telling me MJ counld not fire Karen ? are you telling me MJ couldnot fire Murray ? simply because AEG was paying them ? MJ was that desperate? MJ become powerless to the degree he would not have any authority to fire a bodyguard ? where is the logic ?

They had a contract with MJ , AEG and MJ would have to go with what was
in that contract , I highly doubt MJ signed a contract in which he waved all his rights for a simple 5 millions which in mj's world meant absolutely nothing.

 

[Soundmind]

What is bolded above is factually inaccurate. This all seems so very circular now, and nearly every thread is overtaken with nearly endless defenses. We all grow weary. . . . . I'll respond to just this one, thing right now, because this is simply not accurate information, and probably most people who post here know it?

Michael was IN DEBT to AEG before he even signed any formal contracts with them, that we know of. They paid the court settlement FOR him (I'm assuming a loan) in the case with the Prince of Bahrain.

Colony Capital refinanced Neverland. Tohme is a partner in Colony Capital. Tohme and Randy Phillips, of AEG, have a relationship by marriage. Therefore there is not a DIRECT relationship, but there IS one that is worth exploring.

And then, as Michael prepared for the concerts, AEG paid his rent, his staff, and I'm sure other expenses. What this meant in practice was that Michael was not the employer of his own security staff, and one can assume that he could not hire or fire because he was NOT the employer. He was not, technically, the employer of his security, his chef, or even the people who cleaned his house, OR his doctor. AEG was going to pay Murray, but then, of course, Michael died. I'm not saying this figures into Michael's murder, but that it is certainly worthy of noting in an investigative unit such as this one.

Randy Phillips, Tohme, and Frank DiLeo ALL said Michael's financial situation was not good. Read in the DiLeo interview thread. He said this was the FIRST time Michael didn't hire his own videography crew, because he couldn't AFFORD them. I think very few of his assets were liquid. . . . . .

and one can assume that he could not hire or fire because he was NOT the employer. He was not, technically, the employer of his security, his chef, or even the people who cleaned his house, OR his doctor.

well, from everything we heard , Prince and paris were the people who interviewed the chef and gave the OK . and MJ did fire her and hired someone else then fired that man and rehired her.

Murray went with MJ to see Dr.Adams in March , did AEG force MJ to meet Dr.Adams also ?


What I'm trying to say that even if AEG did not pay a penny to anyone and MJ had an agreement with them , he would have faced a financial ruin incase he decided to break the contract with them , which is the reason why every contract has liabilities and penalties . when AEG & MJ signed the deal they were supposed to both deliver and meet the obligations , that what contracts are made for , it was not something AEG invented , AEG was not a charity organization, and MJ for sure was not working for free . He signed with them after he made sure all expenses associated with the concerts were covered by them as a PART OF THE DEAL . he was expected to deliver , he was going to deliver, the movie confirmed he was going to deliver , that was his part of the deal .

"they paid his rent, they paid the chef, the paid the doctor ....etc so they controlled him "

again without a contract there would have been no need to rent a mansion in LA , no need to hire a chef , no need to hire a doctor ....etc .

 

[sophie]

Tohme relieved everyone from duty in the house the day Michael died.

is it sure it was tohme who did this? was there a report about this? i have been wondering about this the whole time. i dont get at all why employees had to leave the house after mj was brought to the hospital.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

not sure why thome would have such power. when he hadnt been working for mj since around mid may

 

[elusive moonwalker]

n/m.......

 

[jayde123]

is it sure it was tohme who did this? was there a report about this? i have been wondering about this the whole time. i dont get at all why employees had to leave the house after mj was brought to the hospital.

i understand the employees having to leave. there was no longer a reason for them to be there and they now have to protect MJ's assets and personal things. rememeber his former employees have a thing with selling him out. and rememeber latoya n them went to the house right after and took..well we still dont know.

but my thing is hadnt thome been fired for a while at this point? so im thinking the employees must of known that thome was out and dileo was in. why would they be listening to him? especially the security guards, they would know who was in and who was out in MJ's circle. i think Mj would tell his security that he doesnt want thome around anymore & hopefully they would have the common sense to keep him away in death. i dnt think thome sent anyone away that day.

i would probably have to watch the Kai chase the chef interview again but didnt she say the ambulance came took MJ, couple of min later security took the kids n nanny, and told workers to get out?

i dont think we should throw away what anyone has to say (latoya, dileo etc. because under all the bs that they may say there might be a lil truth under it that will help us) at this point cuz we dont know whats 100% fact anymore

 

[Soundmind]

yeah who said Tohme asked everyone to leave ? where did tht information came from in the first place ?

Tohme was with Jermaine and the family at the hospital when the news broke , the world knew MJ was in a bad situation once the ambulance left the house , Murray's cell phone records did not list calls to people associated with AEG or mj's management team , no one would have known MJ was dead except murray and the paramedics at the time .

minutes after MJ was moved to the hospital , Tohme arrived and asked everyone to leave ? hmm why would he do that ?
I clearly remember the reports that day because i was on kop discussion board at the time , they said two SUV's arrived at the hospital with jacksons bodyguards and his kids immediately after jackson was removed to the hospital , everyone went to the hospital , maybe someone with authority , one of his bodygaurd asked the workers to leave immeditely because they wanted to go with MJ and were afraid someone would try to take things while everyone was busy .

again who said Tohme ordered people to leave ? if so Tohme arrived either before mj was removed to the hospital or a few minutes after that, and certainly someone called him because we did not know anything till mj was moved to the hospital

 

[jayde123]

^^yeah cuz it doesnt make sense for thome to be at the house

 

[funkyfish]

I've tried looking for some articles where it says tohme fired the staff, cause i was pretty sure i had read it somewhere But for the life of me i can't. As far as i can tell people have taken latoya's quote from here http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/new...-vows-to-prove-stars-death-was-foul-play.html (links got the ambulance pic in it so watch out) where she says

"We were told all the guys loyal to Michael had been fired. I couldn't work it out."

And mixed it with tohme's quote from here http://www.theinsider.com/news/2380335_AP_Interview_Jackson_adviser_Tohme_breaks_silence

"I have nothing against anybody," he said, "But I don't know anyone from the Nation of Islam. When I took over Michael Jackson's affairs, I fired some people from the Nation of Islam."

And kinda ran with it.

Maybe. Because i was sure i read about staff being fired by someone after mj was taken to the hospital, but now im not sure if it was an article or just whats being discussed by fans, i've also read it was AEG who fired the staff lol.

 

[KingOfPop1]

No actually Kai Chase said Dr. Tohme removed everyone from the house. The article is somewhere on the forum.

 

[funkyfish]

Ah interesting, guess i'll snoop around somemore.

 

[KingOfPop1]

I'm sorry - I have a correction to make!

It was not Kai Chase who said Dr. Tohme fired the staff at the house. It was Leonard Rowe & LaToya Jackson. Now before you start with the "oh can they be trusted" just understand that all possibilities are explored in MJJC I.U. I believe this to be the case because Tohme had unprecedented access to Michael's home. After all, Michael's bodyguards gave Tohme important legal documents AFTER he was fired. That makes absolutely NO SENSE for the guards to do it.

Latoya also claims during the late evening (roughly 11pm) of the day of Michael's death, Tohme (according to Mr. Jackson and former Jackson promoter Leonard Rowe, AEG brought back all the people Michael dismissed) fires all of the staff at the Beverly Hills property ......

www.politicalaffairs.net/article/articleview/8887

 

[Autumn II]

I'm sorry - I have a correction to make!

It was not Kai Chase who said Dr. Tohme fired the staff at the house. It was Leonard Rowe & LaToya Jackson. Now before you start with the "oh can they be trusted" just understand that all possibilities are explored in MJJC I.U. I believe this to be the case because Tohme had unprecedented access to Michael's home. After all, Michael's bodyguards gave Tohme important legal documents AFTER he was fired. That makes absolutely NO SENSE for the guards to do it.



www.politicalaffairs.net/article/articleview/8887

Thank you. Yes, all possibilities are explored here. For those who are uncomfortable with "speculations," a "Facts Only" thread is stickied on the main forum. I'd hope that facts could actually be posted there? That would be a help to everyone.

Yes, Tohme was fired, but probably not "fired" from ALL things, at first. He was president of MJJProductions, and he had Michael's POA, and I'm sure legal papers had to be served and took some time. Oddly, after DiLeo was hired, Tohme went on tv and said he was "still in charge until further notice." To what extent he was still "in charge," we don't know, but it probably would have taken some time to disentangle him from Michael in all respects. He undoubtedly had keys to the house, and had the Security Code? This is all very distressing, given that Michael SAID he was afraid of him!

It's, sadly, become typical here to discount people, out-of-hand. Latoya is discounted because at one time she was being controlled in an abusive relationship and said very bad things about Michael. She has since apologized and was welcomed back into the family. (Michael's own family welcomed her back, but WE don't? That makes no sense. . . .) It's easy to discount Joseph, because he's seemed opportunistic. But yet, he DID say certain things and those things should be considered. Some discount Leonard Rowe, automatically. Some even discount Dick Gregory. But I BELIEVE that Michael told him he was afraid people were trying to kill him. And so on. So MANY people saying the same things, only to be discounted? We must do better than that. . . . . What we have here is called "circumstantial evidence." No smoking gun, but a pattern emerges.

 

[funkyfish]

I'm sorry - I have a correction to make!

It was not Kai Chase who said Dr. Tohme fired the staff at the house. It was Leonard Rowe & LaToya Jackson. Now before you start with the "oh can they be trusted" just understand that all possibilities are explored in MJJC I.U. I believe this to be the case because Tohme had unprecedented access to Michael's home. After all, Michael's bodyguards gave Tohme important legal documents AFTER he was fired. That makes absolutely NO SENSE for the guards to do it.



www.politicalaffairs.net/article/articleview/8887

11pm though, i guess this is a good thing. In my head i figured tohme fired em all after the ambulance left so he could get up to shady bussiness lol.

"Tohme (according to Mr. Jackson and former Jackson promoter Leonard Rowe, AEG brought back all the people Michael dismissed)" i dont get this though, are they saying AEG brought back tohme after MJ dismissed him?

 

[rainny]

No actually Kai Chase said Dr. Tohme removed everyone from the house. The article is somewhere on the forum.

It makes sense since it has been said many times

that Tohme had ties with Colony Capital and AEG,

and those were the ones running the show.

MJ wasn't paying the staff. AEG was.

 

[callmerose]

I know for a fact that when Michael didn't want to see or talk to people, for instance members of his family, he told his security to keep them away. So, how can anyone know if the people around Michael were keeping members of his family away on their own volition or if Michael asked them to?

 

[jayde123]

Thome had his way in doing this because everyone else was with the family during this time. and whatever latoya says def. should be looked at because she was there

 

[Soundmind]

Thank you. Yes, all possibilities are explored here. For those who are uncomfortable with "speculations," a "Facts Only" thread is stickied on the main forum. I'd hope that facts could actually be posted there? That would be a help to everyone.

Yes, Tohme was fired, but probably not "fired" from ALL things, at first. He was president of MJJProductions, and he had Michael's POA, and I'm sure legal papers had to be served and took some time. Oddly, after DiLeo was hired, Tohme went on tv and said he was "still in charge until further notice." To what extent he was still "in charge," we don't know, but it probably would have taken some time to disentangle him from Michael in all respects. He undoubtedly had keys to the house, and had the Security Code? This is all very distressing, given that Michael SAID he was afraid of him!
It's, sadly, become typical here to discount people, out-of-hand. Latoya is discounted because at one time she was being controlled in an abusive relationship and said very bad things about Michael. She has since apologized and was welcomed back into the family. (Michael's own family welcomed her back, but WE don't? That makes no sense. . . .) It's easy to discount Joseph, because he's seemed opportunistic. But yet, he DID say certain things and those things should be considered. Some discount Leonard Rowe, automatically. Some even discount Dick Gregory. But I BELIEVE that Michael told him he was afraid people were trying to kill him. And so on. So MANY people saying the same things, only to be discounted? We must do better than that. . . . . What we have here is called "circumstantial evidence." No smoking gun, but a pattern emerges.

MJ said that in the summer of 2008 , he signed the deal way after that , even the neverland deal was way after those calls were made , MJ had plenty of time to kick his ass and he did not and when he was fed up with him he DID FIRE HIM .

as for Latoya, joe and Rowe . what some fans apply to them are the same standards we applied to the chandlers, arvizos and the neverland employees during the trial . CREDIBILITY is everything , and credibility and motive must come into question with people who have a motive to lie , who have a shady histroy like the three of them , what do they stand to make if they have their way in a court of law also a good question that should be asked by those who are searching for the truth especially when these people made MJ's life unbearable months before his death .

Latoya SOLD stories to tabloids , Latoya claimed she saw oxygen tanks at Murray's bedroom when the police treated this case as homicide the minute Murray asked to stay with them and he declined , no way the police left behind the IV drip and oxygen tanks for Latoya to find them , and we certainly saw the items seized from the house on 26 june based on her statement , no mention of any iv drips or oxygen tanks ,that was a clear lie

what she said about the kids , SHE SOLD THE KIDS OUT .

the 'Heroine' , where did that heroin came from that room was searched by the police . why did she claim that was heroine when a kid can tell it was not ?

joe, put him on the stand and let the jury hear AEG attorney list everything this man did to destroy the concerts because he was not part of the whole deal . let the jury hear the phone call to Roger Friedman asking him to attack MJ in his articles , let the jury hear what went between him and MJ a month before mj' death , how joe was yelling asking for money from his 'junkie' son .

Rowe enough said .

 

[Mechi]

We need to find out the timeline... when was Thome still at the hospital with the family?
And is there any staff/or MJ family member when 'they think' Tome was at the mansion telling staff to leave?

It would make sense that Thome was sent by someone (AEG? or just an own Thome agenda, or maybe Randy Philips, or even Dr. Murray calling for help) for doing the 'cleaning up'. The staff has known him having relations/connections to everyone important so he still has been some kind of a person of some authority.
He certainly is someone who would be a choice for someone to send everyone away with not a lot of discussion... because when he says: "Leave now!" everyone is likely to very much just follow without question or discussion.

Frank DiLeo wasn't maybe that well established already again in between the strings of AEG and/or AEG hired staff and/or family (Jermaine?)?

 

[Soundmind]

Mechi , if any Tohme asked everyone to leave before he went to the hospital , after MJ was declared dead , they waited almost 30 minutes to announce the news and Tohme was there , during those 30 minutes Murray was aksed to stay and he run away , that minute the police went to MJ'house and the house was impound along with Murray's car .

so no way Tohme went to the house from the hospital , if any it was the opposite .

the opposite means during the very few minutes after MJ was moved to the hospital or when he wa on his way to the hospital , Tohme arrived and askd everyone to leave . one problem with that , no one knew about the ambulance but the people inside the house , someone in that house asked Tohme to come . Murray definitley did not make that call , his cell phone records did not support this theory , someone else did it , one of the bodyguards maybe ?

 

[Mechi]

Well if the family and or friends and or fans were shut out to me me there's only two possibilities:
- Thome and/or RP (AEG)
- Michael himself

Well who said what when? And who was where when?

Thome was at the hospital when Jermaine gave the information about the passing of his brother to the world.
Was it him telling Dr. Murray not to leave?
Dr. Murray must have not trusted him then... at least went off to look for some kind of 'better support'.
Who or what legalized Thome at all to fire staff not only in LA but also in Las Vegas?
Thome must have been legalized still acting for Michael and/or for AEG.

How much time was there to really plant evidence or clean up the scene from evidence? There wasn't much cleaning if all those fire places were on fire although the place was 'as told' very warm?

I'm wondering if the LAPD has found anything about or even the missing security tapes yet?
They seem to not have questioned those two security guards from the very beginning. As those had to go to the media for being listened to? I'm sure they could tell about Thome and when he has been in the mansion and why everyone still followed what Thome ordered them to do? Then again would they tell the truth?

The family was only allowed in again after the police checked first right? at least I think they said so.

So again when was Thome where and for how long and who or what legalized him to do what he did?

All questions someone should ask him and or others on the scene.