MJ's Team Shutting out & Blockin the Family?

[Soundmind]

Well if the family and or friends and or fans were shut out to me me there's only two possibilities:
- Thome and/or RP (AEG)
- Michael himself

Well who said what when? And who was where when?

Thome was at the hospital when Jermaine gave the information about the passing of his brother to the world.
Was it him telling Dr. Murray not to leave?
Dr. Murray must have not trusted him then... at least went off to look for some kind of 'better support'.
Who or what legalized Thome at all to fire staff not only in LA but also in Las Vegas?
Thome must have been legalized still acting for Michael and/or for AEG.

How much time was there to really plant evidence or clean up the scene from evidence? There wasn't much cleaning if all those fire places were on fire although the place was 'as told' very warm?

I'm wondering if the LAPD has found anything about or even the missing security tapes yet?
They seem to not have questioned those two security guards from the very beginning. As those had to go to the media for being listened to? I'm sure they could tell about Thome and when he has been in the mansion and why everyone still followed what Thome ordered them to do? Then again would they tell the truth?

The family was only allowed in again after the police checked first right? at least I think they said so.

So again when was Thome where and for how long and who or what legalized him to do what he did?

All questions someone should ask him and or others on the scene.

ofcourse that if Tohme indeed was the one who asked the staff to leave something I highly doubt now since the source is Latoya and rowe .

as for the phone call by MJ , that was before MJ even met the peopl from AEG or agreed to do anything wth them , and before mj did the neverland deal .

AEG did not control MJ, he hired Rowe in march , joe was there so mj was not blocked from anyone , later mj joinded the family meeting in may , he was clarely not blocked , he then met rowe , joe and katherine in some hotel there is a pic of that meeting somewhere . he fired rowe during that meeting .

so Randy philips did not block MJ from seeing his family , and we don't know who were the 'loved ones' MJ was adviced not to see in the summer of 2008 , they might have been another 'arvizo family' and people around him were determined not to allow that mess to happen again , or maybe Tohme felt MJ should stop giving money and spending money on people at that time . we don't really know . what we know for sure that after that phone call MJ saved neverland , and signed a deal with AEG . doubt he was forced to do it since McClain was still his attorney at the time and he would have known if MJ was forced to do anything .

 

[Mechi]

Well soundmind certainly I do not trust AEG one bit... since I heard RP giving interviews only like a day or two after Michaels passing declaring overdose as cause of death it covered by their insurance. wtf!!!!!!!
Also AEG gives insight in that they would cover the costs of the city of LA cuz of Michaels passing or better memorial but only if the DA ends investigating AEG?
hmmmmmm!!!!! interested in the truth sounds different from that?!

Thomes involvment in Michaels last days is suspicious. What did really legalize him to still act there at all and there's bonds between him and AEG through his former work, negotiating with them and privately also through his former marriage with Randy Philips sister. I mean I was shocked by Michaels passing but when I saw Thome there when Jermaine spoke in the hospital I was although in shock still also going uhhhh what is Thome doing there at all???

I also honestly don't think anyone could ever controll Michael Joseph Jackson since the age of when he broke free from the controll of his Dad.

Still I think some maybe tried but Michael wasn't willing to play for anyones but his very own rules and that determined things which happened to him.

What certain ppl do tell and don't tell just doesn't make too much sense, doesn't really explain a thing yet and leaves too many questions open to really believe those involved obviously.
Contracts, deals are all kept private... and only half information is giving at certain times... that simply doesn't clear up a thing.

 

[Autumn II]

Tohme was at the hospital and therefore could not have told staff to leave? Uhm, there are phones? He had "representatives?" Whatever. This all has actually been very enlightening and productive. Whatever attention is turned AWAY from, that's a good hint that's exactly where we should look. And we will, and we do. . . .

That Tohme continued to be "involved" in some way is obvious. He was at the hospital press-conference, and he spoke FIRST. Plus, he had 5.5 million of Michael's money at his house. I find that to be incredibly strange, especially if Michael had terminated him. WHY didn't he give back the money then? Did did Michael ask for it? Did Tohme refuse? If he was fired (and he apparently was), it is extremely odd that he still would have had that money! I think he gave it back only when people were going through Michael's things and finances, and must have found a reference to the money. That's an enormous amount of someone else's money to have lying around. I find that very, very strange and suspicious. I think anyone would. . . . .

 

[Soundmind]

Well soundmind certainly I do not trust AEG one bit... since I heard RP giving interviews only like a day or two after Michaels passing declaring overdose as cause of death it covered by their insurance. wtf!!!!!!!
Also AEG gives insight in that they would cover the costs of the city of LA cuz of Michaels passing or better memorial but only if the DA ends investigating AEG?
hmmmmmm!!!!! interested in the truth sounds different from that?!

Thomes involvment in Michaels last days is suspicious. What did really legalize him to still act there at all and there's bonds between him and AEG through his former work, negotiating with them and privately also through his former marriage with Randy Philips sister. I mean I was shocked by Michaels passing but when I saw Thome there when Jermaine spoke in the hospital I was although in shock still also going uhhhh what is Thome doing there at all???

I also honestly don't think anyone could ever controll Michael Joseph Jackson since the age of when he broke free from the controll of his Dad.

Still I think some maybe tried but Michael wasn't willing to play for anyones but his very own rules and that determined things which happened to him.

What certain ppl do tell and don't tell just doesn't make too much sense, doesn't really explain a thing yet and leaves too many questions open to really believe those involved obviously.
Contracts, deals are all kept private... and only half information is giving at certain times... that simply doesn't clear up a thing.

the DA is considering filing charges against AEG over the memorial thing , it had nothing to do with MJ's death , the DA believes AEG should have paid for everything , they refused and later the LA city considered filing a lawsuit against them and the GA is investigating the matter . It had nothing to do with MJ's death , where did anyone talk about MJ's death in that whole mess ?


Tohme is a friend of Jeramine before he was MJ's manager , he was brought by jermaine , he did not go alone , they BOTH arrived at the hospital .

 

[Soundmind]

Tohme was at the hospital and therefore could not have told staff to leave? Uhm, there are phones? He had "representatives?" Whatever. This all has actually been very enlightening and productive. Whatever attention is turned AWAY from, that's a good hint that's exactly where we should look. And we will, and we do. . . .

That Tohme continued to be "involved" in some way is obvious. He was at the hospital press-conference, and he spoke FIRST. Plus, he had 5.5 million of Michael's money at his house. I find that to be incredibly strange, especially if Michael had terminated him. WHY didn't he give back the money then? Did did Michael ask for it? Did Tohme refuse? If he was fired (and he apparently was), it is extremely odd that he still would have had that money! I think he gave it back only when people were going through Michael's things and finances, and must have found a reference to the money. That's an enormous amount of someone else's money to have lying around. I find that very, very strange and suspicious. I think anyone would. . . . .

he had representatives ok , but he was acting according to a larger plan created by professional people to kill MJ , yet he HAD TO CALL the staff , he had to incriminate himself , he had to link himself to the crime scene , the people behind the conspiracy were not even able to remove Murray's bag from the house eventhough everyone in that house was paid by them and was doing whatever they were ordered to do , the plan was that poor ?

the people behind the conspiracy were not able to recover the unsigned contract from murray's car , they could not get RF card from his car , they left all these simple stuff that have very simple explanations and many here present them as some kind of smoking gun evidence against AEG . there were masterminds who employed the conspirators Dr.Adams, Lee, Murray , Ratner, kai., the security guards...etc but they failed to cover the basics , they forget to tell people not to contact each other that particular day , they forget to tell Tohme to disappear so he would not look suspicious , I mean where is the logic in these theory ? you want to find the truth , you want the jury to believe your story , you gotta be prepared for some tough questions . all that said if indeed Tohme fired anyone WHICH AT THIS POINT I BEGAN TO DOUBT .

he called them !!!!!what about he fired staff to manipulate the scene ? he came and took very important documents ? 'the "representatives" did that , but would not the representative know what to do before the plan was carried out , would not the headmasters tell them how to act the day mj would be killed , they left everything to the last minute ???????????

as for why he kept the money with him , we do remember he filed claims against the estate , he claims he was not paid , he is entitled to 10% of the neverland deal , plus he would get 15% of the total money generated incase Neveralnd is sold . he was entitled to managerial fees , he did not get any according to his claims , he had real contracts , he also said the estate executors asked him not to make them public , that was in document he presented to the court.

maybe in his 'thug' mind he thought he was entitled to the money because he was not paid his share , that mean he stole the money and after mj's death figured he would be caught , after all AEG had to give mj a 10 millions upfront to pay for a mansion he was planning to buy in vegas , I would not be surprised if Tohme got the ten millions , spent 5 and sent the 5 back to the estate .

I'm not defending anyone , but we got to present truths not half-truths , half-truths won't get us anywhere .

 

[rainny]

Tohme is a friend of Jeramine before he was MJ's manager , he was brought by jermaine , he did not go alone , they BOTH arrived at the hospital .

I read in an article that he received a call and went

to the hospital, and that Jermaine was already there

or came later. I'm not saying it is true, but that they

were supposed to be Tohme's words.

 

[Mechi]

the DA is considering filing charges against AEG over the memorial thing , it had nothing to do with MJ's death , the DA believes AEG should have paid for everything , they refused and later the LA city considered filing a lawsuit against them and the GA is investigating the matter . It had nothing to do with MJ's death , where did anyone talk about MJ's death in that whole mess ?

If it is that easy why's there a statement they would pay if imediately all investigation is stoped?... if the investigation is only caused by their redundance to pay... wouldn't it be unnecessary imediately, shouldn't that be easy to clear then?

Didn't say it had to do with Michaels death. but it says something about how AEG does business at times? Doesn't really help to produce trust in me for that company.

Expecting criminal charges makes the money flow from them easier? We pay but therefore you will not investigate further?

I'm wondering too what could be criminal about a matter as simple as that surely!!!

Well everybody is free to disagree... subjective impression from my side of cuz!

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/los_angeles&id=7158388

btw did anyone get what came out there yet?

 

[Soundmind]

Council to Trutanich: Wrap up AEG investigationFriday, December 11, 2009

LOS ANGELES -- The Los Angeles City Council tells the city attorney it's time to wrap up his investigation into the public cost of the Michael Jackson memorial.

The controversy has already dragged on for nearly six months. But the city attorney is refusing to show his hand.

The Los Angeles City Council Friday accepted a $900,000 donation from AEG, the owners of the Staples Center, for costs related to the Lakers parade.

The cost of the Michael Jackson memorial is more than $3 million. AEG wants to make a donation.

But L.A. City Attorney Carmen Trutanich has said publicly there might be criminal charges stemming from the Jackson memorial.

Tim Leiwicke, head of AEG, has said to Trutanich: "Prove it or drop it."

"I don't think we can have fruitful discussions on a possible donation until the issue of potential litigation is resolved," said L.A. City Councilwoman Jan Perry.

The council would like to recover part of the cost of the memorial for a city that keeps going deeper in debt. But when the memorial was held there was no city law to cover such events. However, AEG has indicated a willingness to help if the threat of litigation is removed.

Members of the city council told an assistant city attorney to report back to his boss.

"There is a demand to find a closure one way or the other then we can pursue a donation or reimbursement to the city of Los Angeles," said L.A. City Councilman Dennis Zine.

There was no comment at this point from the city attorney.

Councilwoman Janice Hahn would like to see reimbursement for the Jackson memorial but thinks the city is a world-class city obligated to pay for big events.

The city is hurting for money. AEG has expressed a willingness to reimburse it for the Jackson memorial. Now the only Christmas present the city attorney can deliver is a decision on whether it will file criminal charges

there is no law that force them to pay anything , they are willing to donate regardless , it is a matter of public opinion , they don't want to upset the public , it is like when JCpenny settled with the arvizos , they did not want to fight a 'cancer victim child' .

you should direct your anger at California which stand to make hundreds of millions of dollars as taxes from MJ's death yet they refused to allow the public to participate and say goodbye , you should go after the hypocritics in the City Council and the public who denied US the fans the opportunity to say goodbye eventhough they made billions of dollars out of MJ through the years .


The estate is charged for the memorial by AEG , but when AEG has to pay for the police officers and the extra expenses , they will go after the estate again. basically Los Angelese does not want to pay a penny to hounor mj , they want to recover every sent the city paid that day , every sent that's why they are threating them of legal actions , we don't want third of the total amount , half of the total amount , WE WANT THE TOTAL AMOUNT PAID , and they at the same time would be more than happey to send the IRS to Branca's office to ask for the hundreds of millions from mj's estate they feel it is their share . ****** bastards .

 

[Autumn II]

he had representatives ok , but he was acting according to a larger plan created by professional people to kill MJ , yet he HAD TO CALL the staff , he had to incriminate himself , he had to link himself to the crime scene ,

Interesting. I don't recall anyone saying specifically that he was part of a larger plan to kill MJ, but now that you mention it -- it's certainly worth further speculation. The thread is about whether staff were blocking access to Michael. My opinion, given everything I've read in this thread, is that they were. No "fact" has been presented proving that they weren't.

the people behind the conspiracy were not even able to remove Murray's bag from the house eventhough everyone in that house was paid by them and was doing whatever they were ordered to do , the plan was that poor ?

Someone certainly managed to remove the Security tapes, but yeah, maybe the plan you've suggested WAS that poor?

I mean where is the logic in these theory ? you want to find the truth , you want the jury to believe your story , you gotta be prepared for some tough questions . all that said if indeed Tohme fired anyone WHICH AT THIS POINT I BEGAN TO DOUBT .

I haven't advanced a "theory" and don't have a "story," and will not be testifying in front of a jury. This is a forum on a message board where we are speculating about the circumstances surrounding Michael's death. The topic has turned to whether or not Tohme was or was not in Michael's life after he'd been fired. I think it's pretty clear now that he WAS. I'll post it if this information advances to the extent of being a complete "theory."

as for why he kept the money with him , we do remember he filed claims against the estate , he claims he was not paid , he is entitled to 10% of the neverland deal , plus he would get 15% of the total money generated incase Neveralnd is sold . he was entitled to managerial fees , he did not get any according to his claims , he had real contracts , he also said the estate executors asked him not to make them public , that was in document he presented to the court.

Interesting. So much for his earlier statements that he was working for Michael for NOTHING.

maybe in his 'thug' mind he thought he was entitled to the money because he was not paid his share , that mean he stole the money and after mj's death figured he would be caught , after all AEG had to give mj a 10 millions upfront to pay for a mansion he was planning to buy in vegas , I would not be surprised if Tohme got the ten millions , spent 5 and sent the 5 back to the estate .

I'm not defending anyone , but we got to present truths not half-truths , half-truths won't get us anywhere .

Maybe so? Maybe he did feel a sense of entitlement and was intending to keep the money as long as he could, until it was discovered that the money was missing? We can't know at this time what his reason for having the money was. It's been said that Michael gave it to him to "hold." Don't know. He had Power of Attorney and didn't need Michael's permission to do various things with Michael's money. I just know that if I have a business partner "holding" some of my money and I terminate my relationship with the partner, I'd sure as ish want my money BACK, and immediately. ANYONE would. My opinion is that when Tohme was fired he should have returned Michael's money because it was NOT TOHME'S MONEY. That was simply the ethical thing to do. If he felt he was owed something after stating that he was working for free, that would be a matter for working out legally (and he'd have had to stand in line), not holding 5.5 million of Michae's money hostage. The only one who's said anything about WHY Tohme had the money is Tohme, in terms of any "mansion in Las Vegas.

I'd suggest that you posts the facts (truths) as you know them in the "facts thread?" That would be very helpful. But here, this is for speculations. As has been said many, many times.

 

[Mechi]

Soundmind as much as I understand your frusteration with taxes in California etc. I stick with my opinion about AEG... either you pay or you pay. You pay only if... well that's just it... and no way to call a (sweet?! lol) 'donation' in my mind.

But I beg to differ, I feel no anger towards AEG.

I'm pretty balanced and it just sounds suspicious to me.

The question is if they've done nothing wrong a stupid investigation going on shouldn't hinder them to pay uh? Winking with a hell lot of money on someone very badly needing money for that those do stop searching the truth... hmmmm I'm at a loss for an english term for that but it really doesn't sit right with me.

 

[Autumn II]

he had representatives ok , but he was acting according to a larger plan created by professional people to kill MJ , yet he HAD TO CALL the staff , he had to incriminate himself , he had to link himself to the crime scene , the people behind the conspiracy were not even able to remove Murray's bag from the house eventhough everyone in that house was paid by them and was doing whatever they were ordered to do , the plan was that poor ?

the people behind the conspiracy were not able to recover the unsigned contract from murray's car , they could not get RF card from his car , they left all these simple stuff that have very simple explanations and many here present them as some kind of smoking gun evidence against AEG . there were masterminds who employed the conspirators Dr.Adams, Lee, Murray , Ratner, kai., the security guards...etc but they failed to cover the basics , they forget to tell people not to contact each other that particular day , they forget to tell Tohme to disappear so he would not look suspicious , I mean where is the logic in these theory ? you want to find the truth , you want the jury to believe your story , you gotta be prepared for some tough questions . all that said if indeed Tohme fired anyone WHICH AT THIS POINT I BEGAN TO DOUBT .

he called them !!!!!what about he fired staff to manipulate the scene ? he came and took very important documents ? 'the "representatives" did that , but would not the representative know what to do before the plan was carried out , would not the headmasters tell them how to act the day mj would be killed , they left everything to the last minute ???????????

as for why he kept the money with him , we do remember he filed claims against the estate , he claims he was not paid , he is entitled to 10% of the neverland deal , plus he would get 15% of the total money generated incase Neveralnd is sold . he was entitled to managerial fees , he did not get any according to his claims , he had real contracts , he also said the estate executors asked him not to make them public , that was in document he presented to the court.

maybe in his 'thug' mind he thought he was entitled to the money because he was not paid his share , that mean he stole the money and after mj's death figured he would be caught , after all AEG had to give mj a 10 millions upfront to pay for a mansion he was planning to buy in vegas , I would not be surprised if Tohme got the ten millions , spent 5 and sent the 5 back to the estate .

I'm not defending anyone , but we got to present truths not half-truths , half-truths won't get us anywhere .

Soundmind as much as I understand your frusteration with taxes in California etc. I stick with my opinion about AEG... either you pay or you pay. You pay only if... well that's just it... and no way to call a (sweet?! lol) 'donation' in my mind.

But I beg to differ, I feel no anger towards AEG.

I'm pretty balanced and it just sounds suspicious to me.

The question is if they've done nothing wrong a stupid investigation going on shouldn't hinder them to pay uh? Winking with a hell lot of money on someone very badly needing money for that those do stop searching the truth... hmmmm I'm at a loss for an english term for that but it really doesn't sit right with me.

Mechi, I agree. It's extremely suspicious.

I DO suggest that the "facts thread" was stickied for a reason, and it would be helpful for anyone having concrete facts to post them there so we could see what sort of pattern there might be? "Facts" would include legal documents.. . . not that everything IN the documents is accurate (i.e. Murray's statements to police), but that the documents are THERE.

It is also factual, what someone SAID in an interview (youtube or transcripts). Doesn't mean that what they said was factual, but THAT they said it and then would have to stand by it as a part of record.

There is a lot of "calling for facts" here, which has become more than frustrating in a "speculations forum," but there IS a facts thread that could develop?

Carry on,

Vic

 

[Mechi]

Well I like to be questioned for facts Victoria... my mind is challenged by that to think on, to really find the questionable points where things do not add up in between what is told.
It is a very welcome challenge to think on about things and think things through again and again. It will just not really stop me speculating and adding things different ways they then could make sense.

 

[Soundmind]

Soundmind as much as I understand your frusteration with taxes in California etc. I stick with my opinion about AEG... either you pay or you pay. You pay only if... well that's just it... and no way to call a (sweet?! lol) 'donation' in my mind.

But I beg to differ, I feel no anger towards AEG.

I'm pretty balanced and it just sounds suspicious to me.

The question is if they've done nothing wrong a stupid investigation going on shouldn't hinder them to pay uh? Winking with a hell lot of money on someone very badly needing money for that those do stop searching the truth... hmmmm I'm at a loss for an english term for that but it really doesn't sit right with me.

I beg to differ , MJ settled two molestation claims , I defended him and explained why he did it for 16 years , I can't stand double standards .
we used the same argument when haters questioned the merits of JCpenyy settlement with the Arvizos again the explanation was always ready , but now it does not suit us that there is a public outrage over LA paying for MJ's funeral and AEG trying to end the whole thing and 'donate' to cover part of the expense . I don't know why AEG even bother , maybe they should pay and then charge the estate , that's way some fans will feel fine .

again I can't stand double standards .

Mechi, I agree. It's extremely suspicious.

I DO suggest that the "facts thread" was stickied for a reason, and it would be helpful for anyone having concrete facts to post them there so we could see what sort of pattern there might be? "Facts" would include legal documents.. . . not that everything IN the documents is accurate (i.e. Murray's statements to police), but that the documents are THERE.

It is also factual, what someone SAID in an interview (youtube or transcripts). Doesn't mean that what they said was factual, but THAT they said it and then would have to stand by it as a part of record.

There is a lot of "calling for facts" here, which has become more than frustrating in a "speculations forum," but there IS a facts thread that could develop?

Carry on,

Vic

vic as you said speculations are allowed here, we are speculating , why do you believe your speculations are allowed her and mine are not ?

when we post at the NEWS section you would always use thise cliche " go search and read the investigation unit , we uncovered many incriminating things, we spent hours doing that , you should not question people that have been here for years " we are here reading the investigation unit , we are searching for the truth, we are discussing and speculating , we are asked to tolerate other theories , we are doing that , now you want us to leave because you can't stand us , we are destroying the threads by making sense .

what rules did I broke here ? you present your theory , I present mine and people have theirs , some how we will find out what happened . why you want us out of this section ?

 

[Mechi]

Yeah but as we know now MJ didn't want to settle.

I'm not saying they are guilty soundmind. I'm saying it just doesn't sit right.

And we're not talking about a single person fighting for its life and personal very private reputation.

We're talking about a huge world company doing business. Now I beg to differ.

 

[Autumn II]

Well I like to be questioned for facts Victoria... my mind is challenged by that to think on, to really find the questionable points where things do not add up in between what is told.
It is a very welcome challenge to think on about things and think things through again and again. It will just not really stop me speculating and adding things different ways they then could make sense.

There have been a lot of challenges here for "concrete facts," of which there are actually very few. The challenges became so frequent that a lot of threads were derailed or people simply stopped posting through discouragement. It was like, "well, don't discuss it if you can't prove it." Little can be proven, and it became very troubling. Trish then created a "facts-only" thread where those with need for more concrete information could post. . .a "no speculation" thread. It seemed that it would work very well, except nothing really changed and very few have actually posted in there.

Here is what we know about Tohme, factually.

1. He has a connection with Jermaine. We don't know how far back that runs, or what their connection is today. Tohme spoke FIRST at the hospital press-conference and introduced Jermaine.

2. Tohme used to be married to Randy Phillips' sister.

3. We know that Tohme is a partner in Colony Capital. We know that his name once was listed on their website, but has been taken down. (some fans made screen-captures). We know that Colony Capital refinanced Neverland and has a financial interest in the future of the property.

4. We know that in the early days after Michael's death, Jermaine was pushing HARD for Michael to be buried at Neverland, and for it to become a theme park. We know this because we SAW him doing that on various news programs, including on CNN.

5. We know that Tohme presented himself as a medical doctor, and "Ambassador-at-large for Senegal." We know this because it was once posted on the Colony Capital website. No proof has ever been offered that he is a medical doctor.

6. We know that the country of Senegal has denied that Tohme is any sort of ambassador for their country, and they've never heard of him.

7. We know that after DiLeo was hired, Tohme was still on the scene. We know that because he went on tv and basically said, "I'm still in charge until further notice." But. . he wasn't?

8. We know that Michael fired Tohme and hired Frank DiLeo as manager.

9. We know that Tohme was president of MJJProductions, even though he does not have experience in the entertainment industry.

10. We know that weeks after Michael's death, Tohme had 5.5 million of Michael's money, which he eventually returned. We do NOT know why he had it, or why he didn't return it immediately upon being fired.

We do NOT know for certain who dismissed the staff at Michael's home. We do NOT know for certain why Tohme had Michael's money. We do NOT know for certain if the LAPD have the security tapes, or if they went missing as earlier reported.

All these facts (above) can be put together into various "stories," but those stories would be only fact-based speculation.

 

[Mechi]

and we do know that Thome was there at UCLA with Jermaine during the press conference.

Again my innocent question: why was he there? who did inform him why?
Jermaine? if so why??? apropriate to bring a fired manager back into the game minutes after his brother died?

DiLeo was there also. According to him he was the one telling the children and the family?

I want to know who called Thome when and yeah if we are there... then I want to know why... I mean it didn't really sound as if he was fired on a 'friendly note' uh?

 

[Soundmind]

Yeah but as we know now MJ didn't want to settle.

I'm not saying they are guilty soundmind. I'm saying it just doesn't sit right.

And we're not talking about a single person fighting for its life and personal very private reputation.

We're talking about a huge world company doing business. Now I beg to differ.

MJ told Sawyer he paid to make everything go away, he later setteled with Francia ,and Mez issued a statment confirming MJ regretted the settelement . who really want to settle or pay , I thought we fans figured out settling cases was never an indication of guilt , why nowthe change of heart ?
JCPenny setteled their case with the arvizos for 150.000$ eventhough there was enough evidence it was fraud , by the time they said it did not serve them anygood to go after a cancer victim child in the public eye.

AEG is facing A PUBLIC OUTRAGE over the memorial , people want them to pay every penny spent when no law require them to do so , now the CITY attorney is threatining he will file criminal charges against them for not paying all the expenses , they are saying we will donate something, we are not obligated to pay anything , but we expect you will accept our offer . what is so odd about it ?

again JCPenny and the arvizos, ultimately that case nailed the arvizos big time during the 2005 trial, no one believed Jcpenny was reponsible for any wrongdoing even though they paid .

 

[Autumn II]

and we do know that Thome was there at UCLA with Jermaine during the press conference.

Again my innocent question: why was he there? who did inform him why?
Jermaine? if so why??? apropriate to bring a fired manager back into the game minutes after his brother died?

DiLeo was there also. According to him he was the one telling the children and the family?

I want to know who called Thome when and yeah if we are there... then I want to know why... I mean it didn't really sound as if he was fired on a 'friendly note' uh?

Mechi, yes, we KNOW this because it was televised and an entire nation saw it. I saw it too. He spoke first at the press-conference, and then introduced Jermaine. We can't answer WHY he was there, but surely it was awkward? Frank DiLeo was the manager who replaced him, and he was there, too. We don't know who called Tohme, at all. I don't think it's ever been said.

Frank has said that he was the one who told the family. If that's true, I'm wondering why him, and not Murray or someone else? Why were not the doctors working on Michael (pointlessly by then) the ones in direct communication with the family, as it would seem that it should have been? Was Tohme at the hospital after Michael was taken there? I haven't seen this reported or a link. Maybe so?

 

[Mechi]

My heart is with innocent persons simply more than with innocent world companies lets put it this way.

A trial could easily destroy a person completely no matter if you're in the end called guilty or innocent.

Not so a world company.

The settlement of a private person is understandable for me who's privacy would be turned in every detail upside down on a public scene.

The settlement of a world company is not.

Call it double standard... but to me on the one hand we have a threatened personal life... and on the other we have AEG which would maybe lose what we in germany usually call 'peanuts' maybe and as you say probably try to get it at least partly back from the estate anyways. It will Philip Anschutz might cost a bitter grin of what half a second?
That comparison just doesn't really fly with me somehow. *shrugs*

 

[Soundmind]

according to Tohme he was with mj two days before his death, he may have been fired as a manager or a legal representative but he was still in some position , he was not completely out . we first led to bveleive he was completely out of mj's life , but if his claims are true that he was still in contact with mj till the last days of his life , then there is nothing really odd about him being there and still holding money .

probably mj handed everything to someone he knew like Frank , because Frank was with him for along time . comes to mind the WISE MJ on tape wanting someone he knew to be there with Tohme because he did not know him enough , you know the tape that also we were led to believe it was about MJ crying , scarred to death of tohme and asking for immediate rescue .

 

[Soundmind]

My heart is with innocent persons simply more than with innocent world companies lets put it this way.

A trial could easily destroy a person completely no matter if you're in the end called guilty or innocent.

Not so a world company.

The settlement of a private person is understandable for me who's privacy would be turned in every detail upside down on a public scene.

The settlement of a world company is not.

Call it double standard... but to me on the one hand we have a threatened personal life... and on the other we have AEG which would maybe lose what we in germany usually call 'peanuts' maybe and as you say probably try to get it at least partly back from the estate anyways. It will Philip Anschutz might cost a bitter grin of what half a second?
That comparison just doesn't really fly with me somehow. *shrugs*

well, I certainly did not feel there was anything wrong with JCpenny a HUGE CORPORATION explanation of why the settled the case with the arvizos , actually i don't beleive anyone here even questioned them at all .

 

[elusive moonwalker]

i think frank said he told the kids not the actual family

 

[Autumn II]

according to Tohme he was with mj two days before his death, he may have been fired as a manager or a legal representative but he was still in some position , he was not completely out . we first led to bveleive he was completely out of mj's life , but if his claims are true that he was still in contact with mj till the last days of his life , then there is nothing really odd about him being there and still holding money .

probably mj handed everything to someone he knew like Frank , because Frank was with him for along time . comes to mind the WISE MJ on tape wanting someone he knew to be there with Tohme because he did not know him enough , you know the tape that also we were led to believe it was about MJ crying , scarred to death of tohme and asking for immediate rescue .

Now THAT is useful information, and thanks. Here is another fact. Michael had a long-standing pattern of cutting off people COMPLETELY when they were fired. He'd change his phone number and totally cut off access. I know someone, personally, to whom this was done. He and Michael had been very close, but then there was a small "issue," and someone else (not Michael) told him he was fired. Within twenty minutes the phone number was changed, and the person NEVER, ever, was able to speak to Michael again. So that raises the question, did Michael WANT Tohme "still there?" Maybe NOT! That cycles back to the original post in this thread.

NOBODY said "Michael was crying, etc." However, there are words that come from Michael's own mouth that he was scared of Tohme. This is not second-hand news. It's as primary a source as it gets. There are also photos of Michael and Tohme together, where Tohme was gripping Michael's arm so hard it must have caused bruises. Those photos are there for anyone to see.

My speculation based on the ideas in this thread: we have a person (Michael) who is scared of an employee? He fires him. The employee does not go away, which entirely breaks the pattern Michael had for many, many years about "fired employees." That is extremely interesting. Thanks.

 

[Mechi]

according to Tohme he was with mj two days before his death, he may have been fired as a manager or a legal representative but he was still in some position , he was not completely out . we first led to bveleive he was completely out of mj's life , but if his claims are true that he was still in contact with mj till the last days of his life , then there is nothing really odd about him being there and still holding money .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woSwDr011RE

nothing really odd but a document signed by Michael Jackson from the 8th (I think?! or was it the 12th well beginning) of May telling Thome is not representing him nor his interests anymore.
Plus his voice on a tape saying he doesn't trust Thome, he would like another person there cuz he felt isolated from his ppl, his advisors, his accountants.
That's not what I call led to believe.

This link is also interesting... well I'm sure it's already to find here on the forum, but who knows...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTxOdI-fPhc

also there's this: David Alocco as whitness that Thome even spied out he'd completely screw Michael and so on when he absolutely lost it in a meeting, so he knew he was fired. All presented on Geraldos see the link.

 

[Mechi]

i think frank said he told the kids not the actual family

ouuuups then I got that wrong... but maybe I got that wrong cuz La Toya said something on German TV that the kids were waiting with Katherine in the hospital when they got the information of their Dads passing.
I apologize if I got that wrong.

 

[Autumn II]

I find it extremely troubling, still, that it was not a close family member who told the children about the most important and devastating event in their lives. . . . .

 

[Soundmind]

you guys do remember the 21 acts under the conspiracy charge sneddon brought against MJ ? each one of them had a very simple explanation eventually , eventhough sneddon and the media claimed each one of them was a bombshell , when the jury heard the complete story , no one bought that conspiracy charge any more .

you guys do remember when the media claimed it was the easiest charge to prove and you guys do remember that sneddon only held a grand jury to add that particular charge , and you guys do remember that it was the conspiracy charge and the 21 incidents that played the major role in MJ's being declared not guilty .

Everything said here reminds me alot of that trial , how the fans destroyed that conspiracy charge and with it the whole case way before Mez entered the courtroom because COMMON SENSE and logic were fundamental in OUR investigation back then. now it seems completely the opposite . how sad .

we were told Tohme was out of mj's life for months and questions were asked about him showing up at the hospital, now we got information the guy was never really out of mj's life even though his authorities were restricted at the time , still that serves the conspiracy theory , and when you call it conspiracy they say , WHO SAID THAT? in the next sentece they talk about the other involved ...etc

 

[Autumn II]

All this has led to my speculation that Michael had REASON to be afraid of Tohme, as Michael said in his own words, for all to hear. He fired him but couldn't make him go away? That was unprecedented for Michael, and it's very, very upsetting. That goes very far to answer the question posed in the opening post of this thread. I hadn't known that Tohme was still around TWO days before Michael's death! I think we are coming closer to an understanding here. . . .

 

[Soundmind]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woSwDr011RE

nothing really odd but a document signed by Michael Jackson from the 8th (I think?! or was it the 12th well beginning) of May telling Thome is not representing him nor his interests anymore.
Plus his voice on a tape saying he doesn't trust Thome, he would like another person there cuz he felt isolated from his ppl, his advisors, his accountants.
That's not what I call led to believe.

This link is also interesting... well I'm sure it's already to find here on the forum, but who knows...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTxOdI-fPhc

also there's this: David Alocco as whitness that Thome even spied out he'd completely screw Michael and so on when he absolutely lost it in a meeting, so he knew he was fired. All presented on Geraldos see the link.

yeah he fired him but he was still in contact with him , he saw him two days before his death .

MJ on the tape not saying Tohme is going to kill me , he was basically saying I don't know the man very well , he is taking over everything , I better hire someone beside him who I know , i call this a wise business man talking .

he isolated him from his attorneys and accountants , from everything we have heard throughtout the years , his attorneys and accountants never failed to steal from him , even Ron Burkle asked MJ to start signing every cheque himself to know where the money was really going .

who were the attroneys ? McClain ? we saw what he did after Mj died, the guy encouraged Katherine to go after the executors and costed the estate more than 1 million in legal fees for what ? to be named an executor . these were the type of people Tohme tried to distance mj from , and after his death I can't blame him at all .

allocco, the one who is suing MJ's estate now for 300 millions because mj did not participate in the reunion concert , allooco who sighted 'Frank being a manager for the jackson family is a common knowledge in the business industry" as an argument Mj was entitled to perform with the brothers .

Allooco who had a hotline with Harvey of TMZ in may , talking all kind of shit about mj .

 

[Soundmind]

All this has led to my speculation that Michael had REASON to be afraid of Tohme, as Michael said in his own words, for all to hear. He fired him but couldn't make him go away? That was unprecedented for Michael, and it's very, very upsetting. That goes very far to answer the question posed in the opening post of this thread. I hadn't known that Tohme was still around TWO days before Michael's death! I think we are coming closer to an understanding here. . . .

yeah tohme being there two days before mj's death is very upsetting and incriminating .lol