Medical Boards versus Murray / all threads merged

[MicHil]

Re: CA Medical Board Seeking to Suspend Murray's Medical License

Look, lets try to be reasonable and not jump on me for every thing I say that you don't like. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't true. I'll explain again about the Propofol for those who are still confused as to its use.

Propofol can be used for dental procedures, plastic surgeries, colonoscopies, cardiac procedures etc. It isn't just for surgery and it isn't just for anesthesiologists. Also, by law, doctors have a right to use medications 'off label'. That means they can use a drug for a use other than its intended use. This can come in very handy if someone you know needs a medication to treat something like Cancer or severe pain that nothing else works for, or that they know works for that particular reason but it is not what the medication was made for. It can take many years to be approved and people die waiting.

I didn't make up the rules. I am just telling you the facts. Also, the reason he still has his license is because this was deemed to be an 'accident' so far and this is the first incident he has had with a patient. As a person and a physician he also has rights just like everyone else.

I know a lot of you hate that, but it is true.

the paragraph i bolded, totally irrelevant. the point is that he used propofol outside of a hospital setting and the standard care for administering propofol was NOT met. can you process that much?

and I'll say it again, Murray is not a Cardiac Surgeon, he doesn't need to perform any surgeries.

okay so tell me what else and reasons/situation would a cardiologist use propofol on a patient for? please and thank you.

 

[MicHil]

Re: CA Medical Board Seeking to Suspend Murray's Medical License

Not sure what you want me to say here. I am just giving the reality of things. There are a lot of doctors out there who unjustly have malpractice insurance claims made after them when they did nothing wrong. Some people are lawsuit crazy. Now we have a physician who used a sedative that resulted in patient death.

At this time, he has not been proven guilty of anything. They took away his right to give those types of sedatives which knock people out. He has not had any other issues and has been practicing medicine a while. I don't know what people expect here. The court in this country says you are innocent until proven guilty.

I am very sorry about your father.

yea that patient has a name and it's Michael. you're being rude. quit it.

well if it looks like a dog, barks like a dog, smells like a dog then it must very well be a dog. it's ridiculous to say "oh it must be a cat who really wants to be dog"...

 

[Beachlover]

Re: CA Medical Board Seeking to Suspend Murray's Medical License

oh boowhooo, cry me a river. stop acting like a victim, we are not jumping on you. okie?

the paragraph i bolded, totally irrelevant. the point is that he used propofol outside of a hospital setting and the standard care for administering propofol was NOT met. can you process that much?

and I'll say it again, Murray is not a Cardiac Surgeon, he doesn't need to perform any surgeries.

okay so tell me what else and reasons/situation would a cardiologist use propofol on a patient for? please and thank you.

Cardiologists can do cardioversions, cardiac catheterizations just to name two.

 

[MicHil]

Re: CA Medical Board Seeking to Suspend Murray's Medical License

Cardiologists can do cardioversions, cardiac catheterizations just to name two.

... and Mike needed these procedures? okay then....
thank you for proving my point. it's like giving a chocolate cake to a kid who is diabetic.

 

[Beachlover]

Re: CA Medical Board Seeking to Suspend Murray's Medical License

All I am saying is that he was within his rights as a physician to use the medication. I never discussed standard of care. I simply stated it is legal to use outside a hospital setting.

There is no need to become hostile.

 

[144000]

Re: CA Medical Board Seeking to Suspend Murray's Medical License

You asked me a question. I gave you a straight answer. If you knew how to read you would have read the part about "OFF LABEL USE" and researched that for yourself.

All I am saying is that he was within his rights as a physician to use the medication. I never discussed standard of care. I simply stated it is legal to use outside a hospital setting.

There is no need to become hostile.

i don't think we should be rude to each other, and i'm sorry, if i came off that way.

what i think everybody here is trying to convey, is this whole thing should be looked at as something more than just clinical...and...innocent till proven guilty.

sure...i'm not in a position to convict this doctor. but let's talk from an emotional, and psychological place, and maybe you will understand where i think IMO, most of the people here are coming from. based on the atmosphere that is, now, if you had to see a doctor, would you go see Dr. Murray, at this time? could you answer that question, honestly?

 

[MicHil]

Re: CA Medical Board Seeking to Suspend Murray's Medical License

You asked me a question. I gave you a straight answer. If you knew how to read you would have read the part about "OFF LABEL USE" and researched that for yourself.

All I am saying is that he was within his rights as a physician to use the medication. I never discussed standard of care. I simply stated it is legal to use outside a hospital setting.

There is no need to become hostile.

physician don't have the right to toy with someone's life. off label use is fine if the patient needs it. like i said all the off label use rights it irrelevant to Mike's case. get it? :yes::yes::yes:
what does mike need propofol for? sleeping? yea right! hahah it's for going into a coma/knocks you out, not for sleeping.

 

[Beachlover]

Re: CA Medical Board Seeking to Suspend Murray's Medical License

i don't think we should be rude to each other, and i'm sorry, if i came off that way.

what i think everybody here is trying to convey, is this whole thing should be looked at as something more than just clinical...and...innocent till proven guilty.

sure...i'm not in a position to convict this doctor. but let's talk from an emotional, and psychological place, and maybe you will understand where i think IMO, most of the people here are coming from. based on the atmosphere that is, now, if you had to see a doctor, would you go see Dr. Murray, at this time? could you answer that question, honestly?

I absolutely understand the emotional factor here for all of us. I really do get that. And you were not rude at all.

But ok...you yourself know that there are laws in place to protect the innocent. We are not the judge and jury here. I am merely pointing out that the fact remains he is not guilty in a court of law.

Now to answer your question honestly about whether I would go to him. I would want to know his reputation as a cardiologist. I'd probably say 'no' because I now have a pre-conceived notion in my head, right or wrong, but it is there. But thats not the issue.

I think it is really hard to stand back and look at this as exactly what it is because of the personal feelings we all have towards Michael. In many cases people are angry and are lashing out which I also understand but the bottom line is that his record was not bad as a physician and the judge has restricted him from using sedation to knock a patient out.

So, yeah, I get that everyone is pissed off, but that doesn't change the laws. I guess if we just keep in mind that there are people unjustly accused of things sometimes in this country there are laws in place to protect them.

 

[MicHil]

Re: CA Medical Board Seeking to Suspend Murray's Medical License

I absolutely understand the emotional factor here for all of us. I really do get that. And you were not rude at all.

But ok...you yourself know that there are laws in place to protect the innocent. We are not the judge and jury here. I am merely pointing out that the fact remains he is not guilty in a court of law.

Now to answer your question honestly about whether I would go to him. I would want to know his reputation as a cardiologist. I'd probably say 'no' because I now have a pre-conceived notion in my head, right or wrong, but it is there. But thats not the issue.

I think it is really hard to stand back and look at this as exactly what it is because of the personal feelings we all have towards Michael. In many cases people are angry and are lashing out which I also understand but the bottom line is that his record was not bad as a physician and the judge has restricted him from using sedation to knock a patient out.

So, yeah, I get that everyone is pissed off, but that doesn't change the laws. I guess if we just keep in mind that there are people unjustly accused of things sometimes in this country there are laws in place to protect them.

oh yes, he killed Michael, he must not be a bad physician.
any physician that kills his/her patient is NOT a good physician. obviouslyyyy.

 

[Beachlover]

Re: CA Medical Board Seeking to Suspend Murray's Medical License

:hysterical:
oh yes, i don't know how to read BSexcuses.
you're so right, good job.

physician don't have the right to toy with someone's life. off label use is fine if the patient needs it. like i said all the off label use rights it irrelevant to Mike's case. get it? :yes::yes::yes:
what does mike need propofol for? sleeping? yea right! hahah it's for going into a coma/knocks you out, not for sleeping.

Well, according to many sources it was Michael who was asking for this particular drug. I don't know why and Michael isn't here to ask.

 

[MicHil]

Re: CA Medical Board Seeking to Suspend Murray's Medical License

Well, according to many sources it was Michael who was asking for this particular drug. I don't know why and Michael isn't here to ask.

maybe you can go ask Michael for us.

oh yes apparently Mike wanted propofol in the morning because he didn't have a rehearsal or anything do to that day... apparently.... oh yes and he also told Murray that if anything wrong should happen please do CPR on the bed and call 911 about an hour later... apparentlyyyy.... oh and don't have any equipment to monitor me or anything like that.... apparentlyyyy... apparently those sources are the ones who called Mike what? oh yeaa a child mol**ter... yea okay... let me accept that truth and all truth and nothing but the truth.

 

[amyzabeth]

Re: CA Medical Board Seeking to Suspend Murray's Medical License

Well, according to many sources it was Michael who was asking for this particular drug. I don't know why and Michael isn't here to ask.

But... since Murray is a certified cardiologist, he should know that propofol does not give someone sleep yes? Then if he really cared about Michael at all, he should have and would have referred him to another/different drug or w.e that would have actually helped michael sleep instead of just knocking Michael out. But no he didn't do that. :smilerolleyes:

Michael is not the doctor in this situation. I don't care if he was the one or not who asked for that particular drug. Murray was the one who is the doctor, he should have known and probably did know that it wouldn't give Michael sleep, but he didn't give a crap about Michael. Again, the man only cares for himself.

 

[Beachlover]

Re: CA Medical Board Seeking to Suspend Murray's Medical License

But... since Murray is a certified cardiologist, he should know that propofol does not give someone sleep yes? Then if he really cared about Michael at all, he should have and would have referred him to another/different drug or w.e that would have actually helped michael sleep instead of just knocking Michael out. But no he didn't do that. :smilerolleyes:

Michael is not the doctor in this situation. I don't care if he was the one or not who asked for that particular drug. Murray was the one who is the doctor, he should have known and probably did know that it wouldn't give Michael sleep, but he didn't give a crap about Michael. Again, the man only cares for himself.

I was answering another post which is why I stated that. We were discussing the legal use of the drug.

Obviously something was wrong with this whole situation and I am not denying that. The question was why he still had his license. I said why.

 

[MicHil]

Re: CA Medical Board Seeking to Suspend Murray's Medical License

But... since Murray is a certified cardiologist, he should know that propofol does not give someone sleep yes? Then if he really cared about Michael at all, he should have and would have referred him to another/different drug or w.e that would have actually helped michael sleep instead of just knocking Michael out. But no he didn't do that. :smilerolleyes:

Michael is not the doctor in this situation. I don't care if he was the one or not who asked for that particular drug. Murray was the one who is the doctor, he should have known and probably did know that it wouldn't give Michael sleep, but he didn't give a crap about Michael. Again, the man only cares for himself.

They kill for the money.
Don't know what kind of rainbow, cupcakes and butterflies world certain people are living in.

Mike nor Murray are that stupid.

 

[Autumn II]

Re: CA Medical Board Seeking to Suspend Murray's Medical License

I absolutely understand the emotional factor here for all of us. I really do get that. And you were not rude at all.

But ok...you yourself know that there are laws in place to protect the innocent. We are not the judge and jury here. I am merely pointing out that the fact remains he is not guilty in a court of law.

Now to answer your question honestly about whether I would go to him. I would want to know his reputation as a cardiologist. I'd probably say 'no' because I now have a pre-conceived notion in my head, right or wrong, but it is there. But thats not the issue.

I think it is really hard to stand back and look at this as exactly what it is because of the personal feelings we all have towards Michael. In many cases people are angry and are lashing out which I also understand but the bottom line is that his record was not bad as a physician and the judge has restricted him from using sedation to knock a patient out.

So, yeah, I get that everyone is pissed off, but that doesn't change the laws. I guess if we just keep in mind that there are people unjustly accused of things sometimes in this country there are laws in place to protect them.

With all due respect, that is EXACTLY the point. His "record was not that bad as a physician." That is what makes this so incomprehensible. Murray did NOT have a reputation of being negligent. So what else could have happened? Michael was his only patient. A "mistake" makes absolutely no sense. Thanks for pointing that out! I do believe that Murray should be treated as fairly under the law as anyone, changed time-line and all, inexpicable phone-calls, and all of that. I hope a jury hears ALL of this, and judges him fairly.

 

[StaceyMJ]

Re: CA Medical Board Seeking to Suspend Murray's Medical License

Ok....have a nice night.

Sometimes it is just best to do this than hammering an issue home continuously. However nothing warrants the rudeness shown in this thread.

Cleaned.

 

[Moulin Rouge]

Re: CA Medical Board Seeking to Suspend Murray's Medical License

the paragraph i bolded, totally irrelevant. the point is that he used propofol outside of a hospital setting and the standard care for administering propofol was NOT met. can you process that much?

and I'll say it again, Murray is not a Cardiac Surgeon, he doesn't need to perform any surgeries.

okay so tell me what else and reasons/situation would a cardiologist use propofol on a patient for? please and thank you.

EXACTLY, murray had no business using propofol especially to put someone to "sleep" at home.

 

[Moulin Rouge]

Re: CA Medical Board Seeking to Suspend Murray's Medical License

Well, according to many sources it was Michael who was asking for this particular drug. I don't know why and Michael isn't here to ask.

Who cares if michael asked, a reasonable doctor would say no and help michael find a safe and effective treatment for his insomnia. Murray had dollar signs in his eyes he did not care about his "friend".

 

[Beachlover]

Re: CA Medical Board Seeking to Suspend Murray's Medical License

Who cares if michael asked, a reasonable doctor would say no and help michael find a safe and effective treatment for his insomnia. Murray had dollar signs in his eyes he did not care about his "friend".

I think the 12 members of the jury.

If you read this whole thread and what transpired, this was a question about his license being suspended. I was not speaking beyond that and was simply answering questions from someone who was asking. Very simple.

 

[MicHil]

Re: CA Medical Board Seeking to Suspend Murray's Medical License

I think the 12 members of the jury.

If you read this whole thread and what transpired, this was a question about his license being suspended. I was not speaking beyond that and was simply answering questions from someone who was asking. Very simple.

:wildh hai!! How youuuu doooin'? :naughty:

the 12 members of the jury can also care to know about this factor too then...

oh yes apparently Mike wanted propofol in the morning because he didn't have a rehearsal or anything do to that day... apparently.... oh yes and he also told Murray that if anything wrong should happen please do CPR on the bed and call 911 about an hour later... apparentlyyyy.... oh and don't have any equipment to monitor me or anything like that.... apparentlyyyy...

don't you think so? maybe?

 

[amyzabeth]

Re: CA Medical Board Seeking to Suspend Murray's Medical License

I think the 12 members of the jury.

If you read this whole thread and what transpired, this was a question about his license being suspended. I was not speaking beyond that and was simply answering questions from someone who was asking. Very simple.

Then I would hope that those 12 members of the jury would look at the fact that Murray is the doctor not Michael, quite simple. Propofol does not give someone sleep, so Murray being the doctor should have referred Michael to another drug that would have actually helped him sleep. :scratch:

 

[mary]

Re: CA Medical Board Seeking to Suspend Murray's Medical License

i agree,,,,,a doctor should not be giving out that kind of drug for sleep...
he really should be not allowed to practice medicine anymore...
i do not know who would go to Mr Murrys practice after being asociated with MJ death

 

[Beachlover]

Re: CA Medical Board Seeking to Suspend Murray's Medical License

Then I would hope that those 12 members of the jury would look at the fact that Murray is the doctor not Michael, quite simple. Propofol does not give someone sleep, so Murray being the doctor should have referred Michael to another drug that would have actually helped him sleep. :scratch:

Yes, he most certainly could have. I do think the fact that he was actively seeking someone to administer this particular drug will be a sticky point though. Thats just my opinion.

It doesn't make what Murray did acceptable, but it definitely will factor in when the case is heard in court.

 

[amyzabeth]

Re: CA Medical Board Seeking to Suspend Murray's Medical License

Yes, he most certainly could have. I do think the fact that he was actively seeking someone to administer this particular drug will be a sticky point though. Thats just my opinion.

It doesn't make what Murray did acceptable, but it definitely will factor in when the case is heard in court.

Other than that Cherilyn Lee what other doctor has said anything about Michael seeking someone to administer propofol? Please don't even bring up Dr. Crazy Eyes, the guy is delusional, I wish he would seek help. :smilerolleyes:

 

[MicHil]

Re: CA Medical Board Seeking to Suspend Murray's Medical License

Other than that Cherilyn Lee what other doctor has said anything about Michael seeking someone to administer propofol? Please don't even bring up Dr. Crazy Eyes, the guy is delusional, I wish he would seek help. :smilerolleyes:

funny though how Lee says Mike was looking for anesthesiologist yet didn't Murray say he has been giving Mike propofol for weeks? if everything was "good" with murray then why bother Lee? well that is according to Murray's story... pick one from 43453543 other stories.

 

[amyzabeth]

Re: CA Medical Board Seeking to Suspend Murray's Medical License

funny though how Lee says Mike was looking for anesthesiologist yet didn't Murray say he has been giving Mike propofol for weeks? if everything was "good" with murray then why bother Lee? well that is according to Murray's story... pick one from 43453543 other stories.

I'll pick story number....78934? ya? how you doooinn' by the way?

But yea, I agree, if Michael was "happy" with Murray he wouldn't have called Lee about the hot n' cold thing. Soooo..hmm... :scratch:

 

[Autumn II]

Re: CA Medical Board Seeking to Suspend Murray's Medical License

Other than that Cherilyn Lee what other doctor has said anything about Michael seeking someone to administer propofol? Please don't even bring up Dr. Crazy Eyes, the guy is delusional, I wish he would seek help. :smilerolleyes:

I don't recall its being reported that any other doctor said Michael was seeking someone to administer propofol. Just Murray. It surely is not a "fact" that he was "actively seeking propofol."

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: CA Medical Board Seeking to Suspend Murray's Medical License

Other than that Cherilyn Lee what other doctor has said anything about Michael seeking someone to administer propofol? Please don't even bring up Dr. Crazy Eyes, the guy is delusional, I wish he would seek help. :smilerolleyes:

i think metzger said he was asked.think itwas around the same time although im not sure. tbh i dont really see why thats an issue. its not ilegal to use it or admin it. the issue is how murray administerred it and why there was no equipment etc. the case is about murrays negligence and nothing else

 

[honeysucklejasmine]

Re: CA Medical Board Seeking to Suspend Murray's Medical License

i think metzger said he was asked.think itwas around the same time although im not sure. tbh i dont really see why thats an issue. its not ilegal to use it or admin it. the issue is how murray administerred it and why there was no equipment etc. the case is about murrays negligence and nothing else

Agree. The defense can bring 50 Drs to the stand to say MJ requested propofol, it is irrelevant and I hope a jury will be able to see that. With regards to the media reporting this kind of thing it is, as we know, part of the ongoing attempt to blame MJ for his own death and further denigrate his reputation instead of focusing on the real issue at hand: a greedy "Dr" tossed his professional ethics out of the window and engaged in the most dangerous & reckless conduct imaginable. I would be amazed if the defense can get any Dr on the stand to support or even excuse Murray's actions. He had a duty of care, that duty of care was breached and Michael died AS A DIRECT RESULT. That one sentence is all the jury need to know to convict IMO.

 

[Beachlover]

Re: CA Medical Board Seeking to Suspend Murray's Medical License

Agree. The defense can bring 50 Drs to the stand to say MJ requested propofol, it is irrelevant and I hope a jury will be able to see that. With regards to the media reporting this kind of thing it is, as we know, part of the ongoing attempt to blame MJ for his own death and further denigrate his reputation instead of focusing on the real issue at hand: a greedy "Dr" tossed his professional ethics out of the window and engaged in the most dangerous & reckless conduct imaginable. I would be amazed if the defense can get any Dr on the stand to support or even excuse Murray's actions. He had a duty of care, that duty of care was breached and Michael died AS A DIRECT RESULT. That one sentence is all the jury need to know to convict IMO.

It is very hard for us to know what is going to be relevant or irrelevant to the jury. They will be given the facts from both sides of the case.

While the DA may show Murray to be a greedy doctor, the defense team may try to show Michael as a powerful entertainer throwing his money in a struggling poor doctors face. This is the part of a trial that is so difficult. For each charge there will be some sort of defense.

They will get doctors to defend Murrays actions. There will be people who attempt to dispute the anesthesiologists report from the coroner. You may be shocked but they will throw it all out there. They will make it a point to show the jury that Michael used these drugs many times before and they will make it a point to show that Michael asked for this drug this time. This is why I am really against going for a higher charge. I think it is asking for Murray to get off and skip out the door whistling. At least this charge has a chance of sticking.

People do get away with murder in this country if they have a good enough lawyer. The jury will hear everything Michael did or said in the last months of his life from all sorts of people and they will attempt to show reasonable doubt to the jury.

I actually am not looking forward to this. It will be 'interesting' but it is too close to my heart to want to hear it all.