Jackson syringe testing issues - threads merged

[smoothlugar]

Re: Judge to decide Jackson syringe testing issues

has it ever been documented what exactly was found at the scene or did alberto say what he saw.

- Yes, it's documented both in AR and in the Seach Warrant.
- Alberto also declared that he was instructed to help to clear the scene, according to some articles and I think both Joe and Katherine also mention that in their lawsuits.

cause what exactly is the allegation from the defence

- We won't really know till next 29 December.

Some people have suggested they are aiming at the self-administration via IV drip, but I disagree with that, since it will be IMPOSSIBLE for them to allegue that.

We have already discussed what Chernoff implied and the impossibility of such defence: there was no long tube found with traces of propofol, which proves that if there was continuous infusion (the "spiked" bottle), the long tube, together with the spiked bottle were removed from the scene ONLY by the person who prepared that infusion. Murray was alone and knew the full implications if the police found those items.

They did find an IV bag with liquids to treat rehydration. That's why Murray was there every night eventhough he now wants everyone to believe he was there to give propofol .Either propofol is given via a bolus injection using a syringe or the propofol vial is directly hooked to the long section of an IV tube which is connected with the Y connector attached to the body , you can't mix propofol with other liquids in an IV bag, it is not given that way.

YES, I agree with everything, except the last sentence, as propofol can be mixed with SOME fluids specified in the medication directions. However, in this case it seems that the spiked bottle was used.
In both cases a "controllable infusion pump" (a precision dosifier) would have been required.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Judge to decide Jackson syringe testing issues

I know what Murray lawyers want to prove. He wants to test the syringes and the IV bag so he can say that Michael injected himself with Propofol.

i dont see how testing the amounts proves anything. theres only say finger prints that could be used to point fingers but even then its more than likely mj could have touched the equipment at one time or another. the only logic i see behind testing the amounts is if theres still a huge amount of dip left in the syringe and his lawyer can argue that look theres till a huge amount left theres no way my client would have put so much into the syringe.so mj must have done it. but then going with that logic the pros could use such evidence to their advantage aswell.and the defence proving there was dip in the bag? if there was no dip in the long tubing how can there be any in the bag? proving there was some in the bag opens up the defence of giving it by iv and not just bolus. but then theres the long tubing issue

Some people have suggested they are aiming at the self-administration via IV drip, but I disagree with that, since it will be IMPOSSIBLE for them to allegue that.

has murray actually said that though interms of accusing mj administrating via an iv drip. like u say its imposs as there was nothing found in the tubing.so he has to accuse mj of basically giving himself a bolus which means getting up out of bed getting some dip etc etc.

also can someone clarify the below. its kinda confusing cause iv and tubing seem to mean different things in the uk usa so its confusing me. i get the bolus basically its injected straight into the system. but the iv tube confuses me abit. that is when the bottle of dip is attached to a longer tube. its not actually emptied into an iv bag and hung up? correct? and to give the dip via the long tube u need an infusion pump in order to make sure theres no OD. so becasue there was no dip in the long tube the evidence points to murray using a bolus injection.

Either propofol is given via a bolus injection using a syringe or the propofol vial is directly hooked to the long section of an IV tube which is connected with the Y connector attached to the body , you

no long tube found with traces of propofol

are the defence asking questions about re testing that. as i can see logic in that or is it just about the bag and syringes cause theres been mixed reports. if they are asking about that i see the testing as about opening up a new defence of how mj self injected

has it ever been documented what exactly was found at the scene or did alberto say what he saw. - Yes, it's documented both in AR and in the Seach Warrant.
- Alberto also declared that he was instructed to help to clear the scene, according to some articles and I think both Joe and Katherine also mention that in their lawsuits.

yeah i know things were documented interms of what was found but did it go into great detail for example saying a syringe was attached to an iv. ie evidence that shows without doubt how it was given or were these things cleared up by murrays and alberto

 

[Soundmind]

Re: Urgent plea for testing Jackson items

correct. there wasnt one in the house. i guess he will say he didnt need one cause he was injecting such a tiny amount. and u need to prove he used the spike method which seems difficult to me a bolus injection wouldnt need a pump?correct? but then in itself a bolus injection is dangerous aswell. so tbh hes in the s*** which ever argument he goes with. ones more negligent than the other but they are both negligent. i guess its down to murray saying i didnt need all the equipement cause i was only giving him a tiny amount as soundmind says

elusive , he already told the investigators he was giving him propofol via an IV drip which is the spike method , they don't need to prove anything. Flagan says the whole case depends not only on the amounts found in MJ's body but how actually they entered his body. Murray says an IV drip (spike) and MJ could have done it, the prosecution will say a bolus injection and Jackson could not have done it.

 

[StacyJ]

Re: Urgent plea for testing Jackson items

why would Murray use a IV drip if he only gave him 25mgs? You don't need a IV drip for 25mgs

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Urgent plea for testing Jackson items

elusive , he already told the investigators he was giving him propofol via an IV drip which is the spike method , they don't need to prove anything. Flagan says the whole case depends not only on the amounts found in MJ's body but how actually they entered his body. Murray says an IV drip (spike) and MJ could have done it, the prosecution will say a bolus injection and Jackson could not have done it.

yet no diprivan found in the long tube that would be needed and no infusion pump

thanks soundmind. dunno why but give me a legal motion anyday to read. i cant get my head around medical stuff

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Judge to decide Jackson syringe testing issues

District attorney's spokeswoman Sandi Gibbons said prosecutors had not filed a response to Murray's motion.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/

above is from the AP article on this story. so if this is the case and one wasnt filed at all then they have no issue with the testing and there will be nothing to argue on the 29th

 

[smoothlugar]

Re: Judge to decide Jackson syringe testing issues

i dont see how testing the amounts proves anything.

Neither the prosecution, we have read.

the only logic i see behind testing the amounts is if theres still a huge amount of dip left in the syringe and his lawyer can argue that look theres till a huge amount left theres no way my client would have put so much into the syringe.

The fluids amounts were already small:
- Propofol and Lidocaine detected in approx 0.19g of fluid from a 10cc syringe.
- Prop, Lidocaine and Flumazenil in approx 0.17 g of fluid from a 10cc syringe.
- Propfol, Lidocaine and Flumazenil detected in 0.47 g of fluid from a short section of IV tubing attached to a Y connector. (Which in my opinion is what the media wrongly refers to by the "IV bag".)
- No drugs were detected in approx 0.38g of clear fluid from a 1000cc IV bag.

so becasue there was no dip in the long tube the evidence points to murray using a bolus injection.

But there were traces in the short section of IV tubing, which Kasume explained before it meant it was probably used for continuous infusion of diprivan. (Obviously with another longer tube adjusted into the short sect. The longer tube is "missing"- removed, by the same person who put it there and knew perfectly well he shouldn't have done it without a pump...)

did it go into great detail for example saying a syringe was attached to an iv.

No. A syringe is pushed, using a port. (Kasume explained that very clearly- don't remember if it was int the "Urgent plea for testing" thread...).

District attorney's spokeswoman Sandi Gibbons said prosecutors had not filed a response to Murray's motion.

so if this is the case and one wasnt filed at all then they have no issue with the testing and there will be nothing to argue on the 29th

So then will the judge decide on a date for the re-testing?? (I suppose these will be "normal" procedures, but I thought the judge had alreday granted the defence the re-testing of the fluids in August, so I don't understand all these "news" about it).
The whole issue of the re-testing is a meaningless mystery for me, carried out with the only purpose of distracting and calling for attention from the media before the prelim.

 

[StacyJ]

Re: Urgent plea for testing Jackson items

so in other words if Murray gave MJ diprivan via an IV Drip like he claims he should've had an infusion pump right?

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Urgent plea for testing Jackson items

posted earlier

The tear could be critical evidence. There are two ways of administering Propofol. The first is sticking a syringe into the rubber stopper, withdrawing a small amount and then injecting it into the tubing. The second way is by using a spike -- which creates a tear in the rubber stop -- and connects the entire bottle of Propofol to the tube.

Dr. Dombrowski says if a spike is used to connect the bottle directly to the IV tube, the doctor must use an infusion pump to regulate the flow of Propofol -- otherwise, the patient could easily OD. There was no infusion pump found in Jackson's home.

 

[StacyJ]

Re: Urgent plea for testing Jackson items

posted earlier

Thank you.. sounds like to me that's what the killer did. He didn't measure anything or use an infusion pump. He did all of that by sight. He had no idea what he was doing. That's why Mike was feeling hot and cold for weeks. Damn I wish MJ would've went to the real hospital and to the emergency room once he started feeling chills

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Judge to decide Jackson syringe testing issues

]So then will the judge decide on a date for the re-testing?? (I suppose these will be "normal" procedures, but I thought the judge had alreday granted the defence the re-testing of the fluids in August, so I don't understand all these "news" about it).
The whole issue of the re-testing is a meaningless mystery for me, carried out with the only purpose of distracting and calling for attention from the media before the prelim

i dont think he had granted the re testing. back in august he told each side to come to an agreement to either re test or not and how it would happen. the pros doesnt want the stuff re testing so has stalled things. so the defence have gone to the judge saying they wont do a deal so now its gonna be upto the judge to order it and get it done or n

But there were traces in the short section of IV tubing, which Kasume explained before it meant it was probably used for continuous infusion of diprivan. (Obviously with another longer tube adjusted into the short sect. The longer tube is "missing"- removed, by the same person who put it there and knew perfectly well he shouldn't have done it without a pump...)

the below is a quote from a dr in a tmz article.would the first way of giving diprivan as explained in the below need an long peice of tubing or would the small tubing that did have diprivan in it be enough. as why get rid of one bit of tubing but nothing else.

The tear could be critical evidence. There are two ways of administering Propofol. The first is sticking a syringe into the rubber stopper, withdrawing a small amount and then injecting it into the tubing. The second way is by using a spike -- which creates a tear in the rubber stop -- and connects the entire bottle of Propofol to the tube.

soundmind posted the below

he already told the investigators he was giving him propofol via an IV drip which is the spike method , they don't need to prove anything. Flagan says the whole case depends not only on the amounts found in MJ's body but how actually they entered his body. Murray says an IV drip (spike) and MJ could have done it, the prosecution will say a bolus injection and Jackson could not have done it.

so why would he remove the tubing yet admit to the police he was giving it via an iv.i dunno none of this makes sense

did it go into great detail for example saying a syringe was attached to an iv. No.

ok thats no use then.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Urgent plea for testing Jackson items

but then doesnt the evidence point to a bolus? passing within minutes and the amounts in his system the tox levels etc? as talked about b4

 

[StacyJ]

Re: Urgent plea for testing Jackson items

but then doesnt the evidence point to a bolus? passing within minutes and the amounts in his system the tox levels etc? as talked about b4

I'm confused

 

[smoothlugar]

Re: Judge to decide Jackson syringe testing issues

the below is a quote from a dr in a tmz article.would the first way of giving diprivan as explained in the below need an long peice of tubing or would the small tubing that did have diprivan in it be enough

There's no contradiction between what was said by Dr. Dombrowski and what Kasume said a medical expert had told (her/him??- sorry)

(...)HOWEVER, there was a short set also present that had been "y" into the mainline and when tested contained propofol, lidocaine, and the benzo reversal drug flumazenil. It is common practice when administering IV medication, especially in this type of scenario, to use a mainline of something such as saline (0.9% NACL), lactated ringers (LR), or 0.5% dextrose in water (D5W) as a carrier of sorts, and then use a separate set up or a "short set" to "y" the meds into that mainline, a short set would be unnecessary altogether for a one time bolus injection because you only need an additional IV setup if you "spike" a bag, or in this case, a bottle of propofol. If he had no intention of "spiking" the bottle and then running it as a continuous drip, there are ports present in the mainline IV setup for syringe injections to be given and he would not have used a second set.

.......................

so why would he remove the tubing yet admit to the police he was giving it via an iv.i dunno none of this makes sense

Yes, but 25mg (half a teaspoonful) could only have been given by IV injection.

Did CM actually say "IV drip" (the interview was recorded)? Or was the term "drip" used by the police when transcribing the interview (as reporters who are non medical experts usually refer to "IV drip" "colloquially" when talking about IV injections? (see CNN interview to Cherilyn Lee).


If the long tube needed for the "spiked" bottle and the latter would have remained in the original place, the paramedics would have seen them (AND WITH NO PUMP!!!). No chance for Murray then to declare the story of the only 25mg...

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Judge to decide Jackson syringe testing issues

Did CM actually say "IV drip" (the interview was recorded)? Or was the term "drip" used by the police when transcribing the interview (as reporters who are non medical experts usually refer to "IV drip" "colloquially" when talking about IV injections? (see CNN interview to Cherilyn Lee).

i dont know and this is one of the confusing issues imo. ppl have diff terms for things and its certainly confusing me a drip and injection are two totally diff things . anyway i have to go so gonna have to read and reply to the rest of your comments tom.u just feel like u are going round in circles. i hope the prelim gives us some real info

its like we are pointing to it being via IV with no infusion pump.yet older posts talk about it being via a bolus cause of the levels in mjs blood showing he passed quickly.

 

[StacyJ]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101228/ap_en_mu/us_michael_jackson_doctor

24 mins ago
LOS ANGELES – Attorneys for the doctor charged in Michael Jackson's death will get some residue from syringes and medical items found in the star's bedroom to conduct tests.

The Los Angeles County district attorney's office responded Monday to a motion filed earlier by Dr. Conrad Murray's defense team.

Defense attorneys had sought to have the coroner's office conduct the testing on fluids in two syringes and an IV bag. They want to determine how much of the anesthetic propofol and painkiller lidocaine were in the equipment.

Prosecutors agreed to give them half the residue, but Deputy District Attorney David Walgren's contentious motion says the prosecution will agree to tests only if they are done correctly.

The defense plans to use a private laboratory for testing.

 

[CherubimII]

DA Gives Residue for Testing to Jackson Doctor

Already posted, Mods pease delete

 

[CherubimII]

Re: DA gives residue for testing to Jackson doctor

Thanks for the update, StacyJ.

 

[StacyJ]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101228/ap_en_ot/us_michael_jackson_doctor


DA allowing residue for tests by Jackson doctor


By LINDA DEUTSCH, AP Special Correspondent Linda Deutsch, Ap Special Correspondent –

50 mins ago
LOS ANGELES – Prosecutors on Monday said that defense attorneys for the doctor charged in Michael Jackson's death can have half the residue left in syringes and other medical items found in the star's bedroom for testing by a private laboratory.

"The people ask that the defense be given one-half of the medical evidence so that they can hire and pay for their own defense-requested testing," according to a motion filed by prosecutors, in response to a request by Dr. Conrad Murray's lawyers seeking the tests.

Murray has pleaded not guilty to involuntary manslaughter in the pop star's death by acute propofol intoxication on June 25, 2009. Propofol is an anesthetic.

The doctor's defense team wanted the coroner's office to conduct testing on fluids in two syringes and an IV bag found in Jackson's rented mansion. They want to determine how much propofol and painkiller lidocaine were in the items.

Murray's attorneys have struck an urgent tone regarding the need to test the medical items, saying the evidence was deteriorating. They described the fluids in one of the syringes as having turned to "salt" and contended the testing should have been done immediately after Jackson's death.

The contentious motion filed by Deputy District Attorney David Walgren disputed the defense's statements, and said prosecutors will agree to tests only if they are done correctly.

Coroner's officials have said in court filings that the testing was not necessary to determine Jackson's cause of death.

Superior Court Judge Michael Pastor has said testing is not needed to determine if there is enough evidence to order Murray for to stand trial.

Pastor will hear the arguments on the tests on Wednesday — six days before Murray is scheduled to appear for a preliminary hearing to determine if there is enough evidence for the cardiologist to stand trial.

In the motion filed Monday, Walgren said that if the tests were performed by the coroner's office, defense attorneys should be required to sign an acknowledgment that they understand the coroner will be using an experimental procedure; that the interpretation of data will be difficult; and that the testing could consume or alter the evidence.

Walgren also accused the defense of making false allegations that they had not received relevant toxicological evidence. He said they have had the evidence since Feb. 16, 2010.

He cited the allegations as the reason he is seeking written court orders to validate all further testing.

 

[yaazgurl]

This is the first I am hearing about lidocaine or was it mentioned before?

 

[kasume]

^ Lidocaine is mentioned in the autopsy report. It's what given to reduce the pain when injecting propofol.

interesting info for this.

Michael Jackson Homicide: Investigative Research

In light of the recent developments in the case of People vs Conrad Murray for the manslaughter charge, I'd like to mentions a few key points:

1- By LAW it is the defense's RIGHT to have access to all the evidence & witnesses that the prosecution is going to bring to court. The defense must be given the opportunity to cross examine the evidences & witnesses once the prosecution has determined what or who they are.

2- The cross examination of the witnesses & evidence by the defense team can be done either directly or indirectly, which leads to 3 different scenarios:

A) the defense hired experts will be able to directly examine the evidence & samples collected in testing environment different from the one used by the prosecution

B) if there's limitation in regards to amount or stability of the samples available (i.e. blood, fluid, tissue, etc.) the prosecutors & the defense will reach an agreement to have a third neutral party to carry out the tests while an expert representative of both sides, presides over the procedures.

C) If the evidence or samples are deemed government property or are of a national security nature, the tests can be carried out in a government lab, by government experts & an expert representative of the defense will preside over the proceedings.

Although to us MJ is a national (or better yet a global) treasure, but legally speaking, the samples & evidence collected in this case are not government property & don't have a national security nature, hence the defense must be allowed to have access to them & examine them in a non-bias third party facility.

3- it is PROTOCOL for the coroner's office to preserve all the collected samples & evidences in a manner that will survive the test of time. This means preserving all the chemical, tissue, fluid, etc samples in a fashion that would prevent crystallization & solidification, deterioration of the samples. The coroner's doesn't need a court order for that, because it is THE PROTOCOL in EVIDENCE COLLECTION. THEY MUST PRESERVE the samples in a way that if the case needs to be reopened they can go back & re-test the evidence! & believe it or not, we actually DO HAVE the technology to keep these sort of samples for years without anything happening to them!

As mentioned in my autopsy analysis, the coroner has done a sloppy job in collecting & testing the samples & now we're seeing the prosecution & the defense going back & forth on an issue that shouldn't even be an issue to begin with! Had they had done their job properly to begin with, we wouldn't be having this conversation & they hearing would be on its way!

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Michael-Jackson-Homicide-Investigative-Research/296194732047

 

[Justthefacts]

This issue is a dead one. They are trying to create a defense if this was a big deal they would have raised this issue way before like when Murray was charged.

 

[smoothlugar]

Re: Judge to decide Jackson syringe testing issues

i dont know and this is one of the confusing issues imo. ppl have diff terms for things and its certainly confusing me a drip and injection are two totally diff things . anyway i have to go so gonna have to read and reply to the rest of your comments tom.u just feel like u are going round in circles. i hope the prelim gives us some real info

The preliminary will give us more info, hopefully, but simple not understood concepts (real general info) is the reason why WE are going round in circles, like the confusion between an IV drip( fluid drops due to gravity) and an IV injection.

Anyway, we are here because we admire and love Michael as an artist and as a human being and we are only dealing with these horrible medical issues because there was a "homicide" and we want justice to be done.

PS: Thanks for merging the two threads.

 

[StacyJ]

Re: Judge to decide Jackson syringe testing issues

The preliminary will give us more info, hopefully, but simple not understood concepts (real general info) is the reason why WE are going round in circles, like the confusion between an IV drip( fluid drops due to gravity) and an IV injection.

Anyway, we are here because we admire and love Michael as an artist and as a human being and we are only dealing with these horrible medical issues because there was a "homicide" and we want justice to be done.

PS: Thanks for merging the two threads.

I'm hoping the prosecutors lay out there case efficiently and very easy to understand. There is nothing complex about what Murray did. Murray drugged MJ to death and left him to die. There is nothing complicated about that.

 

[Big Apple2]

Re: DA gives residue for testing to Jackson doctor

Murray's attorneys have struck an urgent tone regarding the need to test the medical items, saying the evidence was deteriorating.

I'm not surprised that they "HAVE STRUCK AN URGENT TONE." LOL!

Those fools don't have a viable defense and they know it! In my opinion, they are "grasping at straws" and I won't be surprised if they TRY and postpone the date of the upcoming preliminary hearing, i.e. "our testing is not completed."

Bottomline, they have NO defense!

 

[Justthefacts]

I said it before we keep talking about Propofol lets not ignore the Lorazepam

 

[xthunderx2]

I said it before we keep talking about Propofol lets not ignore the Lorazepam

yup..exactly!!:agree:

 

[Soundmind]

But there were traces in the short section of IV tubing, which Kasume explained before it meant it was probably used for continuous infusion of diprivan. (Obviously with another longer tube adjusted into the short sect. The longer tube is "missing"- removed, by the same person who put it there and knew perfectly well he shouldn't have done it without a pump...)

a Y adapter has two ports. In this case one was attached to the SHORT tube . The short tube did not have a spike so Murray would not have been able to hook it to a propofol vial which means Murray did not use it for continuous infusion of propofol. The second port was attached via a long tube to an IV bag , that long tube did have a spike and would have been the only tube Murray could use to give propofop via an IV drip still no propofol was detected in that tube means no propofol was given that way.
Why do you insist it was given via an IV drip ? What is your explanation for the two syringes with traces of propofol found there? MJ used one? who used the other ?

Seriously, all Murray needs to prove propofol was given via an IV drip and countless experts would take the stand to tell jurors MJ could have done it himself and the prosecution's case would be over REGARDLESS of murray's reckless behaviour. Murray is on trial for one charge and one charge only , if the jury feels there was a possibility MJ did it himself THEY SHOULD ACQUIT MURRAY that what law says , beyond a reasnable doubt , and I' telling you the prosecution WILL NOT FIND ONE EXPERT WHO WOULD NOT AGREE WITH THE DEFENCE THAT MJ COULD HAVE OVERDOSED HIMSELF USING THE IV DRIP.

I will say it for the million time , the coroner already said if it was given via an IV drip MJ could have done it , for God's sake were not you the one who said a man overdosed on 2400mg of propofol hooking himself to an IV drip? so why are you now desperate to prove he gave it via an IV drip? Are u Beachlover?



Two syringes with propofol, no propofol in the long section of the tube. propofol in the short section , the expert saying MJ would not have been able to overdose ONLY if it was a bolus injection, and the coroner ruling his death as homicide and we are still arguing whether he gave it via an IV drip or a bolus injection. ?!!!!!!

As Flagan said their case depends on the way propofol entered MJ's body. Bolus injection Murray WILL GO TO JAIL. IV drip MJ will be blamed and Murray WILL BE ACQUITED.

All Murray needs a long tube with propofol to walk free , no such tube was found at the house ,let me guess Flagan and Chernoff will for sure bring up the "MISSING" removed long tube. I just want to ask you since Murray did admit he gave the propofol via an IV DRIP so the long tube with propofol should be found somehwere and Murray would not have been able to take that "MISSING" long tube from the house after MJ died , who do you believe took it ? tell us Beachlover ? Kasume will for sure blame the "other bad guys" what do you believe?

 

[JMie]

Soundmind, thanks for the detailed explanation.

 

[smoothlugar]

Below is what Kasume reported from a medical expert.

a short set would be unnecessary altogether for a one time bolus injection because you only need an additional IV setup if you "spike" a bag, or in this case, a bottle of propofol. If he had no intention of "spiking" the bottle and then running it as a continuous drip, there are ports present in the mainline IV setup for syringe injections to be given and he would not have used a second set.

Why do you insist it was given via an IV drip ?

How would you explain the "spiked" bottle then and the quote above? And Dr. Dombrowski's article was being discussed...

What is your explanation for the two syringes with traces of propofol found there?

Murray used the injection ports in that second set for the induction dose.

all Murray needs to prove propofol was given via an IV drip and countless experts would take the stand to tell jurors MJ could have done it himself

NO. Your words remind me of those published in the article "Death from propofol: accident... murder?". In the first case reported of murder with propofol, the items (syringes, vials of propofol, etc) were found in bags adjacent to garbage cans. The article says: "There was no way the victim could have self-injected propofol, gathered all the drug vials and injection paraphernalia into garbage bags, walked outside to dispose of the materials, come back inside and then collapsed on her bed." The same applies here. Who moved the spiked bottle??? Who bought everything? Who cleared the crime scene? Who told endless lies to the police? Murray.

IF a continuous infusion was given, IT WAS ONLY ADMINISTERED BY MURRAY!!!

I will say it for the million time , the coroner already said if it was given via an IV drip MJ could have done it

NO. The coroner said: "Circumstances indicate that propofol and the benzodiazepines were administered BY ANOTHER.The circumstances do not support self-administration of propofol". (signed on 19th August after taking into account the Anesthesiology Consultation signed on 3rd August and that you insist so much on giving it another different meaning to the one the coroner gave).
,

for God's sake were not you the one who said a man overdosed on 2400mg of propofol

NO, read better please.

so why are you now desperate to prove he gave it via an IV drip? Are u Beachlover?

BE RESPECTFUL PLEASE. I'm not desperate to prove anything. If anything, a continuous infusion would prove it wasn't homicide, BUT MURDER.

the expert saying MJ would not have been able to overdose ONLY if it was a bolus injection,

Not true and already discussed at the begining of the thread.

As Flagan said their case depends on the way propofol entered MJ's body.

The case does not depend on what that person says. Did you hear what Chernoff said in June?? He twisted everything said in the AC not only the only interpretation you're giving.