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Preliminary Hearing 5/1/11 Day two. Discussion thread

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AllForMJ said:
Michael's feet were not that color because he was a drug addict. His feet were that color because he was dying.

My uncle passed away in September of the very same year that MJ died. My family and I were at my uncle's bed side daily. We took turn as we waited for my uncle to pass over. He was elderly.

I learned from being with my uncle that a person's feet get cold first as they are dying and then the coldness works its way up.

This info that I pulled from a website about the signs of dying will explain it to you guys. Chernoff was grasping at straws. He should have done some research before trying to pull that sh*t.

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As the heart becomes weaker, circulation fails to adequately reach the hands and feet and they will become cool to touch and the nails maybe bluish, while the arms and legs maybe pale, grey, mottled or purplish.

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To read more, click on this link and scroll down to "Body Temperature and Colour" on this website titled "Signs of Dying." Also scroll down to "Signs of Imminent Death"

http://www.amitabhahospice.org/public/helpful_info/signs_of_dying.php
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I'm sorry about your uncle, and yes you're right about the blue feet thing.. it's disgusting how Chernoff tried to suggest otherwise, and even more disgusting that TMZ lied about the paramedic's response. MJ had probably been dead over 30 minutes when the paramedic saw him, that's why his feet were blue..
 
Ramona122003 said:
I mean the way his died is strange and more than a little horrifying. I don't mean this as a dig towards Michael, but people will wonder how he could get himself into such a mess. From picking someone who isn't train, to using propfol to sleep, to allowing himself to be hook up like a patient, is a little much.

People may understand the medical 'errors' Murray did and he should pay for them. But, I don't think the average person would ever understand why Michael would do this to himself with kids in the house and being warn of the dangers. Which is what I meant when I said I could understand the weird & wacky part of it. Because it is weird and wacky.
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Yeh ur right bout that. Im a fan and i cant fathom all of it....its too confusing
 
wendy2004 said:
I think contamination prevention sounds like a reasonable option and also since propofol burns/stings, it may have been inside the bag to keep it from coming into contact with anyone's skin should it leak somehow on the floor.


Guys, do not hate on Chernoff. He's slimey but he's your unintentional friend here. Trust. I've not seen a more perfect match of attorney/client in the "not too bright" dept. than Chern. and Murr. It's almost criminal that one has a license to practice medicine and the other has a license to practice law.

QUOTE]

Propofol does not burn or sting when it comes into contact with skin....trust me...I know. It burns when it is injected into the vein. That's why you take a little bit of lidocaine so that it doesn't burn that much. :yes:

The comment about Chernoff and Murray made me laugh out loud!! :lol: It is extremely sad and horryfying...but true. :mello: Just let Chernoff dig the hole for Murray all on his own! :kickass: :lol: ("Was it dark in the room....?" Oh wait...wasn't your CLIENT monitoring his patient with EYES ONLY.....:mello::doh::doh::doh:)
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bluetopez said:
It was not Chernoff who called MJ 4 times a drug addict in court who made Katherine upset (although he thinks the same) it was another lawyer for Murray named Rowe who was Britney Spears ex Attorney! Who was saying to the Paramedic that MJ was a drug addict and only drug addicts look like that wearing a shower cap on his head when the paramedic describe earlier that he could not recognize it was MJ!
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What in hell are serious? Michael had a shower cap on because of his hair when your hair is styled that way you wear a shower cap. I wore one when I had a curl hmm I must be an addict too. Please tell me that line of questioning was objected too?
 
summer;3176594]Something I just thought of after reading this article ( http://articles.latimes.com/2010/dec/30/local/la-me-murray-20101230 ) and about Murray's "defense theory"....and about the two syringes and MJ injecting himself.

We have a paramedic saying that Murray broke a syringe....and a broken syringe was found with an "unidentified fingerprint" on it. Well...wouldn't MJ's fingerprint be more than easily identified...and mind you, not just A fingerprint but MULTIPLE fingerprints? We have not heard ANYTHING about MJ's fingerprints on the syringes. And if there are no fingerprints...how was MJ able to inject Propofol himself? Oh because as we know he always wears one glove, right? Ha ha. :rolleyes: Bet if there are any other fingerprints, they're probably from the paramedics, trying to get the broken syringe out of the way. :doh: Another thing...I'd like to know what kind of syringes exactly were found. If it was a 10 ml syringe, then how was MJ able to get 150mgs (=15ml) into him with it? Besides, I'd like to see someone being able to inject all of 15ml of Propofol by themselves without being knocked out half way in the process!!! It just ISN'T possible!! Besides, how does that go with Murray saying HE gave MJ 25mg of Propofol and MJ was knocked out with just that amount already ACCORDING to Murray? :mello: So.....IF that is true....how can MJ inject 150 mg BY HIMSELF before he is knocked out....when according to Murray he was already knocked out with just 25 mg he had given him???? HOW does THAT make sense??? Explaint me THAT....MURRAY!!! :doh: Even if Murray's lawyers would say "Yeah, MJ injected himself"...there is no way MJ could have injected the amount found in him ALL BY HIMSELF. It just IS NOT possible.

Like I've been saying...no matter HOW you twist it...the evidence speaks for itself!!!
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not to mention MJ must have already recieved propofol that night based on urine concentration and it was definitley more than 25 mg, so who did inject it then? MJ also:smilerolleyes:

Unless they go the conspiracy route , the case is over for them
 
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I just want to point out that the hospice remark seems a little biased. There is no typical look for a hospice patient. I worked with hospice patients and they were varying weights and being on hospice does not equal to being frail. I had some patients who were actually heavy.
 
Ramona122003 said:
I mean the way his died is strange and more than a little horrifying. I don't mean this as a dig towards Michael, but people will wonder how he could get himself into such a mess. From picking someone who isn't train, to using propfol to sleep, to allowing himself to be hook up like a patient, is a little much.

People may understand the medical 'errors' Murray did and he should pay for them. But, I don't think the average person would ever understand why Michael would do this to himself with kids in the house and being warn of the dangers. Which is what I meant when I said I could understand the weird & wacky part of it. Because it is weird and wacky.
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true i agree and many would also. everyone knows what muarry did was messed up and most blame him for it. also most will wonder why mj was even in that situation at all. for the life of me i will never understand that
 
Only drug addicts wear shower caps on there head? Oh here feels that line is a little racist?
 
bluetopez said:
It was not Chernoff who called MJ 4 times a drug addict in court who made Katherine upset (although he thinks the same) it was another lawyer for Murray named Rowe who was Britney Spears ex Attorney! Who was saying to the Paramedic that MJ was a drug addict and only drug addicts look like that wearing a shower cap on his head when the paramedic describe earlier that he could not recognize it was MJ!
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where did you get this info from???
also he could have had some kind of bonnet on his hear for his curls so his hair wouldnt mess up. it wouldnt be good for him to sleep withput some kind of scarf unless someone was gonna do it the next day
 
Why the heck would mj be wearing a shower cap in bed anyway???
 
MJ was wearing the shower cap because of his curls. That's how you keep them looking fresh when you wake up in the morning.
 
Justthefacts said:
What in hell are serious? Michael had a shower cap on because of his hair when your hair is styled that way you wear a shower cap. I wore one when I had a curl hmm I must be an addict too. Please tell me that line of questioning was objected too?
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true i just responded to that post
 
chanel05 said:
the perimedics wouldnt have touched anything bare handed. they would have had on gloves. im sure they had on gloves before they entered the house. also im not sure but they say the dosages could have gotten mixed up by police when muarry gave the interview because they said that they were too small to do anything.
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And that again is the thing....if Murray says he ONLY gave 25mg, which I don't believe he did....then how would MJ be able to give a massive amount all by himself without being knocked out by the time he had 25 mg in him? And if Murray gave more than that....how can he justify leaving the room and leaving MJ alone and not monitoring MJ...etc. etc. etc.? Again....no matter what he says, he's doomed. That's my point.
 
yaazgurl said:
I just want to point out that the hospice remark seems a little biased. There is no typical look for a hospice patient. I worked with hospice patients and they were varying weights and being on hospice does not equal to being frail. I had some patients who were actually heavy.
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IMO... i think he thought he was hospice because he was pale(most people arent mj's skin color. as we know mj had no pigment in his skin due to vitiligo), the doctor and the medical equipment that was present. also he looked thin and that may played a factor but i dont think that was the main reason he thought that.
 
Justthefacts said:
Only drug addicts wear shower caps on there head? Oh here feels that line is a little racist?
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could be??? i know that i wear one every morning when i get in the shower so my hair doesnt get wet. im sure it wasnt a shower cap that mj was sleeping with because shower caps are plastic and it gets hot up under there. they are also ncomfortable to lay in. it probably was some kind of bonnet he wore for his hair so it doesnt mess up
 
AllForMJ said:
MJ was wearing the shower cap because of his curls. That's how you keep them looking fresh when you wake up in the morning.
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I personally laughed at that comment. That means half of my family much be addicts including my 90 years old granddad and grandma. I needed a good laugh today.

Btw, the next time he said that, someone should come back and asked him why Murray was given Michael the addict Lopz.
 
AllForMJ said:
MJ was wearing the shower cap because of his curls. That's how you keep them looking fresh when you wake up in the morning.
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I didn't know that worked. I don't think it's odd anyway. People wear eye mask things or whatever when they sleep. But to make someone seem something because they were a cap is wrong. Just the other night I slept with gloves on because someone told me for dry hands to put vaseline and put gloves on to help. They were white gloves too.
 
summer said:
And that again is the thing....if Murray says he ONLY gave 25mg, which I don't believe he did....then how would MJ be able to give a massive amount all by himself without being knocked out by the time he had 25 mg in him? And if Murray gave more than that....how can he justify leaving the room and leaving MJ alone and not monitoring MJ...etc. etc. etc.? Again....no matter what he says, he's doomed. That's my point.
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i agree.. i wonder what they defense will be once the trial starts
 
Justthefacts said:
What in hell are serious? Michael had a shower cap on because of his hair when your hair is styled that way you wear a shower cap. I wore one when I had a curl hmm I must be an addict too. Please tell me that line of questioning was objected too?
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Please tell me that a lawyer wouldn't know why Michael would have the cap on his head.
 
The more Chernoff speaks, the dumber he sounds. He cannot explain away all of the things that Murray did that day. There are entirely too many things to explain away.

And Murray even had the nerve to fix his mouth to say he was hungry and wanted to get something to eat? How could he possibly want to eat on a day like THAT? That day of ALL days!
 
I don't know if this was mentioned already cause this thread is moving fast! But, the Defense tried to insinuate that the paramedics where the ones who didn't want to take MJ to the hospital cause the new policy is now that it's better to pronounce someone dead at the scene then to waste time and tax payers money trying to get them to a hospital! o_O Again, the same paramedic Seffens said he wouldn't know how to answer that!? Also all 4 paramedics that where at the scene said they couldn't get a pulse on MJ he was flat lined but, only Murray was saying to them he can feel a pulse!
 
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classic said:
Please tell me that a lawyer wouldn't know why Michael would have the cap on his head.
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he knew, he was reaching. he know that mj is a black man and with the way he wore his hair something would be over it. also im from chicago and out of all the addicts ive seen, none of them had on a shower cap. so i dnt know where he was going with that.
 
What Michael had on his head means nothing I can't believe his lawyer even tried to go there.
 
AllForMJ said:
The more Chernoff speaks, the dumber he sounds. He cannot explain away all of the things that Murray did that day. There are entirely too many things to explain away.

And Murray even had the nerve to fix his mouth to say he was hungry and wanted to get something to eat? How could he possibly want to eat on a day like THAT? That day of ALL days!
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i think that was an excuse to leave. he already has his get-a-way planned. i dnt think he ate or slept for next few days cause i know i wouldnt be able to
 
bluetopez said:
I don't know if this was mentioned already cause this thread is moving fast! But, the pros tried to insinuate that the paramedics where the ones who didn't want to take MJ to the hospital cause the new policy is now that it's better to pronounce someone dead at the scene then to waste time and tax payers money trying to get them to a hospital! o_O Again, the same paramedic Seffens said he wouldn't know how to answer that!? Also all 4 paramedics that where at the scene said they couldn't get a pulse on MJ he was flat lined but, only Murray was saying to them he can feel a pulse!
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The autopsy report says that Michael was wearing a wig. Why he would need a shower cap to go to sleep? It does not make any sense so far.
 
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