Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / Trial date April 2, 2013

[Soundmind]

Re: Update : Ortega removed as defendant / Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / AEG wants case dismissed

Elusive Thank you darling

That's true cuz you say so, right? How about her following him and begging him to return to her, cosing up to his mother etc? Which that was the case anyway, and Michael still loved her, but not obsessed like LMP admitted herself to being. Why not say 'her lover' instead? Also, that's not a thread about MJ's personal love life in case you haven't realized. His medical life is out there for all to dissect and distort anyway, so your point is? Adding to it? Your bluntness is hard to stomach at times, because you're using lotta innuendo behind your seemingly realistic approach of things. You sure do, you're often more than just plain realistic..

:rofl:

That's called overgeneralizing, for you don't know if Jackson resorted to Propofol every time while tour. And certainly he never did when Not o tour, just cuz he suffered from insomnia. And, in your mind, it's fair game to conclude Jackson would have died anyway, no matter what? Even if Murray wasn't there to 'care' for him? Yet you don't take into consideration the pressures on behalf of many of his fans for him to tour that added to his insomnia? Or how insomnia works? How it really works? Or else, you won't be saying such insensitive, superficial things.

when did I say MJ would have died anyway ? my belief if MJ hired someone else, he would have been still alive. Dr.Adams gave propofol to 8000 different patients none of them ended up dead, propofol is very safe if a specialist is involved, and deadly if someone like Murray's involved. It's as simple as that.

insensitive? listen, I don't even blame MJ for taking propofol, I read enough to understand that this man had tried everything under the sun to overcome his chronic insomnia and at some point he became convinced propofol would have helped him get some sort of sleep. Who am I to say he was wrong? seriously? I have never said he was wrong to use propofol to sleep, sleep is a necessity desperate needs call for desperate measures, if cornflakes made MJ sleep he would have taken cornflakes and call it aday. Some here are so desperate to prove he had never asked for propofol because they believe something like propofol would taint his legacy, would label MJ as an addict .That was never my concern. I know he was not an addict, I know he was not dependent on propofol, I believe he was desperate to sleep because like always he knew he had responsibilities he had to meet , being up nonstop would have prevented him from delivering and he believed propofol was the answer to overcome that issue.

I blame no one but Murray for MJ's death, I blame MJ only for hiring Murray, I careless whether he used propofol or not. Per the prosecutor, MJ was very healthy, MJ should have been still alive, the health care he received was substandard and it was what killed him, and Murray was the only one to blame.


Again , you can go on trying to explain why we should not believe he was using propofol because you do believe using propofol was something shady , something to be ashamed of and MJ's name should be cleared by all means. I'm one of those who don't even consider it something shameful.

Yeah, I remember you obsessively repeating the strategy of Murray's defense, that "Jackson Committed Suicide" in bold. But now you're also really blaming Jackson too for his dying, but there's a thread in the Conspiracy forum for you to say that, not this thread. And once again, you are not in the position to blame Jackson for his dying. The dead man for his dying. He Didn't ask for incompetence from Murray, he didn't ask him to talk on the phone for hours while monitoring him, didn't ask him to clean his death scene while Jackson was dying/already dead, he didn't ask him to call 911 half an hour later. Didn't ask to die. ... Jackson is the most vulnerable, quiet party in all of this madness, for he isn't here to have a say in all that, he is dead, can't return, can't take part in the trial against his doctor, can't do anything about it, and some still dare to blame death on this most vulnerable, incapable party that Jackson has become since June 25. Just like you don't know for sure it was Jackson himself that hired him. Which you can't say for sure. So, I'd say you should reserve your judgements or let others make their own, in this case, about AEG, since this thread is about them and their trial against them. There's Murray thread in plenty in the case forum for that. You've said once you're well, extremely well informed. Not enough though, for real, in this case, when AEG is concerned. You think it's that simple to be stating the things you do with utmost security, to hit and run? Yeah, you do, but it's not.

when I returned to this community, two months after MJ's death, I was shocked by the flood of posts here calling MJ an addict, 90 % of the posters here believed he was an addict, very small group of members were questioning the motives behind the Jacksons claims of interventions. A small group of fans here helped balanced the atmosphere here , I was one of them.

I was posting under Oceangirl, back then every one but nurse Lee said he was an addict , the autopsy report was not released yet, everything was pointing to addiction. STILL we trusted MJ, we trusted the man we have dedicated years of our lives to defend , our gut feelings were telling us to trust him on this issue and we did WE DID we went after everyone who called him an addict whether they were fans here or even his own family. I was banned from KOP because the admins and mods there were convinced he was a junkie and were DISGUSTED by those like me who "defended him blindly" and saw him as "some sort of God" , I was banned cus I called his family everyname under the sun for doing what they have been doing and tried to explain why would they lie like that, why would they want to prove he was an addict, why would they hint his kids were not his biologically.

SOUND MIND, that name I created to describe Michael Jackson , not myself. " he was mentally and physically unstable , he was not of sound mind when he wrote his will" that's what I knew would be used by the Jacksons to revoke the will and successfully sue AEG and I was right . When the other 90% members here were saying why would his family lie like that, why should we dismiss their stories, why should not we trust them, what were their motives to say he was an addict, we were telling them cus if they proved he was not of sound mind when he signed his will due to "addiction" they would have been able to revoke his will, if they proved he was not of sound mind when he signed the contract with AEG they would be able to collect money from a possible lawsuit. the key word was "not of sound mind" and the Jacksons would have been able to get what MJ did not want them to get.

Now I'm accused of calling him an addict, of trying to defend Murray, of supporting the defence theory what a freaking joke:smilerolleyes:

And you say Murray should pay for the crime he committed, (now that Jackson isn't here so you can blame him for him asking for Propofol), but you are still blaming Jackson for his death, saying "he paid immensely for his mistake". Again, not the proper thread for that, but of course, you can believe whatever you wish. Just don't try to make a point while attacking Jackson, as seen above. Do so via PM, on tabloid sites, on psychology, crime sites or other fan forums. The list of insensitive views on things Jackson-related - so as not to say people, right - is growing, which is disturbing, esp in light of Murray's trial. It is

taking propofol was not a crime, asking for propofol was not a crime unlike what you believe, desperate needs call for desperate measure,if a man was in the desert and he ate human flesh to survive, I won't call him inhumane , he was desperate to survive and that's how I view MJ using propfol. the crime was what Murray did, what Murray was doing, how Murray convinced MJ he could do it, how Murray convinced MJ to stop looking for a specialist and hire him solely to do the job, the crime was the mixing of propofol and lorazepam, all of that was Murray's responsibility.

MJ made a mistake, he hired a doctor who was not a trustworthy person, and he did pay immensely for that mistake, the mistake was HIRING Murray, not asking for propofol. Asking for propofol had never been a crime. got that?

It's the way they said the things they did, and they explicitly said that Jackson paid with his life for his mistake of 'hiring' Murray, to paraphrase them accurately. Meaning they put some significant blame on Jackson for dying. You too addressed that when a member the other day said more explicitly "I blame Michael" too. Different nuances, but still. And I said they don't even know whether Jackson was the one that ultimately hired Murray, which we Don't. I don't like them?.That's your own warped guess, for I don't take issue with everything they say. 0..0

... If there's nothing wrong with what they said, blaming that on either cultural differences or whatever, it Was wrong of you, for instance, to defend them by means of personally attacking me with your hazardous claims. ...

*exits thread*

MJ hired Murray, MJ asked for propofol, AEG had nothing to do with Murray or propofol, MJ would have suffered from insomnia even if he had another promoter, he would have suffered from insomnia even if he was not in debt, he would have suffered from insomnia een if he had a wife there with him, he would have suffered from insomnia regardless of everything . Insomnia led to propofol, insomnia was present throughout his life, he needed to sleep, so he took propofol , stop blaming AEG for issues started since he was a little boy and continued all his life.

I think the problem was that the bolded above was not even necessary. What does Lisa Marie coming whenever he called have to do with anything?And the whole "mistress" part added in. (which is false, a mistress is someone you keep a secret not being all out in the open with.) :lol:The whole post is really confusing LOL

I meant, people claim if MJ had enough time to prepare he would not have suffered from insomnia, if AEG did not pressure him he would have been still alive, if his financial empire was not threatened of being ruined if he failed to show up for rehearsals , nothing would have happened to him ,some say if he had a girlfriend , she would have prevented that outcome.

I simply replied , during the History tour , AEG was not there, he was not in debt, he was well prepared, he was sexually active lol obviously happy with Lisa Marie, just became a dad, no debts, nothing of what supposedly caused the pressure in 2009, still he was suffering from insomnia .

the point was in the previous tourS he suffered from the same problem INSOMNIA, so why are they blaming AEG for his insomnia ? he suffered from insomnia so he took propofol to sleep. That's the point I'm trying to make.

 

[ivy]

Re: Update : Ortega removed as defendant / Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / AEG wants case dismissed

I have to say..I am probably amongst the minority that is not happy about Kenny's name being taken off the lawsuit...and that is ok. I feel by taking him off that the door is being closed for others that may have been responsible for Michael contributing death....I realize my opinion is not a popular one. But I just felt that I had to post it and get it out....I still and always will feel that everyone around Michael on a daily bases in their own way helped contribute to is death....they ll saw him ..they all had eyes. Everyone chose to say nothing..do nothing..except insist that he gets up on that stage. Michael is gone now and they have to live with themselves. ...alot went on behind the scene that we will never know about.... Like I said I don't expect to be applauded for my post....I do however hope I can be respected for my opinion.

of course you are respected for your opinion.

I personally do not think "contributed to Michael's death" is not that clear cut concept. Let me give you an example

Let's think that you hear your neighbors arguing and you think the argument has became physical what do you do? You call the cops or not call them? what if this is an continuous thing that you confronted your neighbor before and they told you to "mind your own business"? or if you called the cops before and when the cops arrived the neighbors denied everything?

so you don't call and the argument gets physical and the male hits and hurts the female, did you contribute to her beating? Are you guilty? should you be kept legally responsible?

For me "contribute to death" will be more like (in this instance) supplying propofol (and other drugs) and injecting them to Michael - in other words actually part taking in the action of harm.

Your point of view sounds more like "could have, would have, should have" approach with no wrong or right answers. Plus if "everyone" is contributed how fair it is to just sue Kenny? A lot more people - including Jacksons- should be held legally responsible then.

 

[Big Apple2]

Re: Update : Ortega removed as defendant / Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / AEG wants case dismissed

personally do not think "contributed to Michael's death" is not that clear cut concept. Let me give you an example

Thanks for breaking that down ivy.

I was hoping the Judge would have touched upon whether Murray was an AEG hire or not. I guess that will be for the jury to decide.

Here's a question: Will Katherine have to prove that AEG knew what Murray was doing to Michael after rehearsals were over?

IF so, I just don't see her being able to prove that. I mean, I have a feeling the three guys from AEG are going to say, they NEVER wanted to hire Murray in the first place. He was too expensive and they were just "appeasing" Michael, in a sense STALLING, until they arrived in London and then Michael would have chosen a local doctor.

After Kenny Ortega's testimony and the way Murray got all in Ortega's face, I found Murray to be bossy and on the arrogant side. I have a feeling after that encounter, they REALLY didn't want anything to do with Murray and probably didn't like him very much after that whole thing went down.

So my 2-questions are: 1) proving Murray was actually an AEG employee; and 2) proving that AEG knew Murray was giving Michael Propofol. Will those 2 things determine the outcome of this case?

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: Update : Case stays alive/ Ortega removed/ Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / AEG wants case dismis

No one knew anything about Murray Michael and Propofol lets not kid ourselves. Murray knew what he was doing was wrong because he was lying to the guy he was buying it from about where it was going and how it was going to be used. If his own Mother knew nothing about Propofol how does expect AEG to know? Let us not forget she saw him a week before he died nothing wrong same Michael. Come on Mrs Jackson

 

[CherubimII]

Re: Update : Case stays alive/ Ortega removed/ Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / AEG wants case dismis

A bit of advice:
"Never defend mega-corporations
(like AEG), for they have sinned, much." :agree:

 

[Big Apple2]

Re: Update : Case stays alive/ Ortega removed/ Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / AEG wants case dismis

No one knew anything about Murray Michael and Propofol lets not kid ourselves. Murray knew what he was doing was wrong because he was lying to the guy he was buying it from about where it was going and how it was going to be used. If his own Mother knew nothing about Propofol how does expect AEG to know? Let us not forget she saw him a week before he died nothing wrong same Michael. Come on Mrs Jackson

I totally agree with you!

They have a virtual LAUNDRY LIST of things to prove. I just don't know how they are going to overcome those obstacles.

It's time to "put-up" or "shut-up," in my opinion. And that basically means, EVIDENCE, EVIDENCE, and MORE EVIDENCE!

 

[Alma]

Re: Update : Case stays alive/ Ortega removed/ Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / AEG wants case dismis

when did I say MJ would have died anyway ? my believe if MJ hired someone else, he would have been still alive. Dr.Adams gave propofol to 8000 different patients none of them ended up dead, propofol is very safe if a specialist is involved, and deadly if someone like Murray's involved. It's as simple as that.

insensitive? listen, I don't even blame MJ for taking propofol, I read enough to understand that this man had tried everything under the sun to overcome his chronic insomnia and at some point he became convinced propofol would have helped him get some sort of sleep. Who am I to say he was wrong? seriously? I have never said he was wrong to use propofol to sleep, sleep is a necessity desperate needs call for desperate measures, if cornflakes made MJ sleep he would have taken cornflakes and call it aday. Some here are so desperate to prove he had never asked for propofol because they believe something like propofol would taint his legacy, would label MJ as an addict .That was never my concern. I know he was not an addict, I know he was not dependent on propofol, I believe he was desperate to sleep because like always he knew he had responsibilities he had to meet , being up nonstop would have prevented him from delivering and he believed propofol was the answer to overcome that issue.

I blame no one but Murray for MJ's death, I blame MJ only for hiring Murray, I careless whether he used propofol or not. Per the prosecutor, MJ was very healthy, MJ should have been still alive, the health care he received was substandard and it was what killed him, and Murray was the only one to blame.

That's more like it... Thanks for taking the time to explain yourself, although I didn't ask for that..

Again , you can go on trying to explain why we should not believe he was using propofol because you do believe using propofol was something shady , something to be ashamed of and MJ's name should be cleared by all means. I'm one of those who don't even consider it something shameful.

0..0 Where in all my posts on this forum did I even claim that? Ashamed? Just cuz I said there is still doubt over who exactly hired Murray in the end. I was Nothing but sympathetic to Jackson and completely understood him for asking for that, been empathetic to a fault the whole time, and because I am fully aware of what insomnia can do. And am fully aware of the hell he's been through esp his last days, not hard to figure that. ... Just cuz I don't go on and on saying He Asked For It like some do (not talking about you). Shameful, go figure. You should read posts better before you resorting to personally claiming to know the truth about others or were in their minds to establish certain conclusions, you love investigating, do you? Practice it, then, even better. Repetitio est mater studiorum. Besides, I wasn't even referring to you when I said "AEG supporters", have others in mind, it's your repeating almost obsessively some words which is unnecessary.

when I returned to this community, two months after MJ's death, I was shocked by the flood of posts here calling MJ an addict, 90 % of the posters here believed he was an addict, very small group of members were questioning the motives behind the Jacksons claims of interventions. A small group of fans here helped balanced the atmosphere here , I was one of them.

I was posting under Oceangirl, back then every one but nurse Lee said he was an addict , the autopsy report was not released yet, everything was pointing to addiction. STILL we trusted MJ, we trusted the man we have dedicated years of our lives to defend , our gut feelings were telling us to trust him on this issue and we did WE DID we went after everyone who called him an addict whether they were fans here or even his own family. I was banned from KOP because the admins and mods there were convinced he was a junkie and were DISGUSTED by those like me who "defended him blindly" and saw him as "some sort of God" , I was banned cus I called his family everyname under the sun for doing what they have been doing and tried to explain why would they lie like that, why would they want to prove he was an addict, why would they hint his kids were not his biologically.

SOUND MIND, that name I created to describe Michael Jackson , not myself. " he was mentally and physically unstable , he was not of sound mind when he wrote his will" that's what I knew would be used by the Jacksons to revoke the will and successfully sue AEG and I was right . When the other 90% members here were saying why would his family lie like that, why should we dismiss their stories, why should not we trust them, what were their motives to say he was an addict, we were telling them cus if they proved he was not of sound mind when he signed his will due to "addiction" they would have been able to revoke his will, if they proved he was not of sound mind when he signed the contract with AEG they would be able to collect money from a possible lawsuit. the key word was "not of sound mind" and the Jacksons would have been able to get what MJ did not want them to get.

Did I ask about your background, though? ... You've explained to me before who you were, really no need to do that again. When you first asked me - rudely, of course - what was I doing when you were in full investigation of Jackson's 2005 trial, remember? I replied with a few words, in this thread with a few lines, when other started accusing me of being an inexperienced newbie. I said the way you express yourself at times is not that necessary at all - like keeping on repeating in bold the defense's strategy, and on here, I've explained how, wasn't questioning your loyalty, I've given you rep points more than once too. And this thread is not even about you and I.

Now I'm accused of calling him an addict,

No, you weren't, not by me, I said something completely different. Your repeating the words 'he would still take Propofol"' was really unnecessary. Some aren't dumb to get things, and you're speculating on that he asked for it Every time while on tour/for every concert, how would you be privvy to such a thing anyway? It's the History in the case of which the anesthetic was mentioned, and if it was about others, too, although you're trying to make a point with that, that's still a private thing, at least he got taken care of properly back then and monitored, unlike now.

taking propofol was not a crime, asking for propofol was not a crime unlike what you believe

What I believe is that you aren't privy to how my brain and heart work and think to be hurrying to claim you know what it's in them. .. Explained above. A few months ago, I was even accused by one or two on the forum that I am Encouraging the use of Propofol, just cuz I was that empathetic of Jackson and his situation. So back off with your false hurtful claims, please.

desperate needs call for desperate measure,if a man was in the desert and he ate human flesh to survive, I won't call him inhumane , he was desperate to survive and that's how I view MJ using propfol. the crime was what Murray did, what Murray was doing, how Murray convinced MJ he could do it, how Murray convinced MJ to stop looking for a specialist and hire him solely to do the job, the crime was the mixing of propofol and lorazepam, all of that was Murray's responsibility.

Been saying most of that myself more than once, and insisted on the word 'insomnia' and how many are treating it lightly, if you didn't know that, that's not my issue.

MJ made a mistake, he hired a doctor who was not a trustworthy person, and he did pay immensely for that mistake, the mistake was HIRING Murray, not asking for propofol. Asking for propofol had never been a crime. got that?

If he hired Murray. And that's where your misinterpretation of my words started real bad. I haven't disputed that Michael asked for Propofol, but Only that maybe he didn't hire Murray himself. Although he knew him before, long shot, maybe, that's an open debate still, though. We've seen crazy ish happen in Jackson's world that one would have to pinch oneself at times to believe just how crazy it is. That it could've been AEG who hired Murray for Jackson. Or others for that matter. Some do believe Murray got paid to be that reckless and that's not at all far-fetched, he doesn't show any emotion or regret for his gross negligence. Murray betrayed Jackson's trust nonetheless and disregarded his life. If Michael hired him, his mistake was that he was trusting this person, and Murray too advantage of that. Hope it's clearer for you now, I used the word 'mistake' when talking about Michael, wow, you made it. It doesn't really take a scientist to conclude that one, as badly and often betrayed as Jackson was, couldn't know who the freak to trust, and would be confused often, since basically Most of those surrounding him, except his children, were at least shady. Is that clear enough for you..?

MJ hired Murray, MJ asked for propofol, AEG had nothing to do with Murray or propofol, MJ would have suffered from insomnia even if he had another promoter, he would have suffered from insomnia even if he was not in debt, he would have suffered from insomnia een if he had a wife there with him, he would have suffered from insomnia regardless of everything .

When you say/repeat AEG had nothing to do with Murray, again, this remains a speculative point. Unless you have some inside source to completely rule that out, at least say "I think". He would have suffered from insomnia, but one Can't possibly say for sure it would've been That bad. As Bad as it got. Jackson was under tremendous stress and it takes to know more about all the shady circumstances surrounding him those months before being sure about his insomnia. This time it was mad different, Jackson actually underwent the 2005 traumatic trial, and many wanted him to fail, not to mention the media. The expectations were huge, impossibly huge. He started to get sued countless of times, he had leeches around him worse than perhaps ever before, changed managers by the day almost, for None of them were reliable, not even Dileo. You can even say, 'Oh, that's speculation", just don't say "That's not true", again, we haven't been in Jackson's life those days and months to know the Full story and the Full contents of his life to be claiming such. There's some real good evidence out there to find on that This tour was much different than the rest, 1 being that it was his first in 12 years. The rest, that takes investigation. And with that, I'm officially saying I'm starting to feel disgusted over having to Unnecessarily talking in this much depth about Jackson's or anyone's health and life, Just because I have to explain things to those who really don't get it. Officially disgusted..

Insomnia led to propofol, insomnia was present throughout his life, he needed to sleep, so he took propofol , stop blaming AEG for issues started since he was a little boy and continued all his life.

I'll do whatever I want, thank you, and rightfully so, for some don't see AEG in as good a light as some do. Plenty of reasons for that. And before asking one to do something, first start with Not repeating some words countless of times, like for brainless dummies.

the point was in the previous tourS he suffered from the same problem INSOMNIA, so why are they blaming AEG for his insomnia ? he suffered from insomnia so he took propofol to sleep. That's the point I'm trying to make.

For his worsened insomnia . I truncated some of your paragraphs, like comparing the History tour with this one, as I've explained above. Your point was as clear as a calendar quite obsessively being expressed. And it's sad when some, like me, have to take part in this continuous dissection of someone like Jackson for the many reasons stated. Don't have a spite against you, just so you know, you're right about many things that you say, but the way you express some are just unsettling to some. Of right.. That's all I have to say. Peace..

*exits feels sick/*

 

[StacyJ]

Re: Update : Case stays alive/ Ortega removed/ Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / AEG wants case dismis

No one knew anything about Murray Michael and Propofol lets not kid ourselves. Murray knew what he was doing was wrong because he was lying to the guy he was buying it from about where it was going and how it was going to be used. If his own Mother knew nothing about Propofol how does expect AEG to know? Let us not forget she saw him a week before he died nothing wrong same Michael. Come on Mrs Jackson

very true.. how does Katherine expect AEG to know when she didn't?

 

[Big Apple2]

Re: Update : Case stays alive/ Ortega removed/ Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / AEG wants case dismis

very true.. how does Katherine expect AEG to know when she didn't?

Excellent point.

I mean, she was his mother. Spent time with him at his crib. Was there hanging out with him a week or so before he died. She said she didn't notice anything, he acted like he always acted, not difference.

Yet she expects AEG to know what was going on in Michael's bedroom in the middle of the night.

 

[Soundmind]

Re: Update : Case stays alive/ Ortega removed/ Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / AEG wants case dismis

No one knew anything about Murray Michael and Propofol lets not kid ourselves. Murray knew what he was doing was wrong because he was lying to the guy he was buying it from about where it was going and how it was going to be used. If his own Mother knew nothing about Propofol how does expect AEG to know? Let us not forget she saw him a week before he died nothing wrong same Michael. Come on Mrs Jackson

come on now , who does believe Katherine really blames AEG for MJ's death ?!!!!!!!! the woman sent her grandkids MANY times with AEG people and to events organized and supported by AEG , she invited THEM to his FUNERAL , she allowed them to organize his memorial service, DOES THAT LOOK LIKE A WOMAN WHO BELIEVE THOSE KILLED HER SON? :smilerolleyes:

That woman WANTS $$$$$$$ to support the 50 different individuals MJ kept out of his will , seriously how come 50 different people could share $ 7.000 a month ????? COME ON NOW :mello:

She was praising Branca a month ago " he is doing an amazing job" , probably she had just received the allowance, then when Branca did his job and sued her fraud partner he became the DEVIL , he became "greedy" she no longer supports him. whatever

 

[Big Apple2]

Re: Update : Case stays alive/ Ortega removed/ Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / AEG wants case dismis

I just had another thought.

Do you guys remember the meeting that took place in a bungalow at a California hotel (can't remember the name of the hotel)? It was attended by Michael, Randy Phillips, Leonard Rowe, Katherine & Joe Jackson, along with some other folks.

I know everybody has a theory as to what that meeting was about, but in my opinion that meeting was clearly regarding the ALLGOOD ENTERTAINMENT deal.

If that is correct, I expect Randy Phillips to testify as to EXACTLY what went on during that meeting and if Rowe, Joe and Katherine were PRESSURING Michael to do that Family Reunion Concert, during the same time they now claim Michael was so out of it. That bit of information, if true, will not sit well with their claims, in my opinion.

 

[StacyJ]

Re: Update : Case stays alive/ Ortega removed/ Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / AEG wants case dismis

I just had another thought.

Do you guys remember the meeting that took place in a bungalow at a California hotel (can't remember the name of the hotel)? It was attended by Michael, Randy Phillips, Leonard Rowe, Katherine & Joe Jackson, along with some other folks.

I know everybody has a theory as to what that meeting was about, but in my opinion that meeting was clearly regarding the ALLGOOD ENTERTAINMENT deal.

If that is correct, I expect Randy Phillips to testify as to EXACTLY what went on during that meeting and if Rowe, Joe and Katherine were PRESSURING Michael to do that Family Reunion Concert, during the same time they now claim Michael was so out of it. That bit of information, if true, will not sit well with their claims, in my opinion.

I agree.. Randy is going to be talking about how Mother Katherine was right there begging MJ to do this show for her other kids

 

[Big Apple2]

Re: Update : Case stays alive/ Ortega removed/ Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / AEG wants case dismis

I agree.. Randy is going to be talking about how Mother Katherine was right there begging MJ to do this show for her other kids

Katherine Jackson was there for a reason and it wasn't to hold Joseph's coat, that's for sure.

I always wanted to know what really went on in that meeting and I also believe Patrick Allocco from AllGood Entertainment participated in that meeting via conference call.

We also know that Joe Jackson and Leonard Rowe wanted in on the AEG deal, I wonder if that came up at all during that particular meeting. If so, they're all toast, in my opinion.

 

[StacyJ]

Re: Update : Case stays alive/ Ortega removed/ Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / AEG wants case dismis

And another thing, wasn't Frank Dileo the one who was supposed to get MJ in on it? I thought Frank was in negotiations with AllGood a while before the whole AEG announcement.. All of this reeks.. No one in this mess should have a clear conscience. They all have blood on their hands.

 

[Soundmind]

Re: Update : Case stays alive/ Ortega removed/ Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / AEG wants case dismis

yeah I remember that, but I also remember someone saying MJ and Katherine were laughing at Joe all the time, he was trying to negotiate something at that meeting and he was so silly , MJ and Katherine could not stop giggling . Rowe was fired the very next day. It will be really interesting to know what Philips says about that meeting.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Update : Case stays alive/ Ortega removed/ Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / AEG wants case dismis

I just had another thought.

Do you guys remember the meeting that took place in a bungalow at a California hotel (can't remember the name of the hotel)? It was attended by Michael, Randy Phillips, Leonard Rowe, Katherine & Joe Jackson, along with some other folks.

I know everybody has a theory as to what that meeting was about, but in my opinion that meeting was clearly regarding the ALLGOOD ENTERTAINMENT deal.

If that is correct, I expect Randy Phillips to testify as to EXACTLY what went on during that meeting and if Rowe, Joe and Katherine were PRESSURING Michael to do that Family Reunion Concert, during the same time they now claim Michael was so out of it. That bit of information, if true, will not sit well with their claims, in my opinion.

yeah very true. thats what was thought at the time. joe and rowe were trying otoget in on the concerts and the meeting was telling them to get lost along with the claims about mj being contracted to allgood and thats when all the stories started in the press about mj not being able to do the shows etc. rowe basically admitted in his book he was the source for all that crap.no doubt this event will come up in any trial. it will be intresting to say the least

 

[StacyJ]

Re: Update : Case stays alive/ Ortega removed/ Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / AEG wants case dismis

yeah very true. thats what was thought at the time. joe and rowe were trying otoget in on the concerts and the meeting was telling them to get lost along with the claims about mj being contracted to allgood and thats when all the stories started in the press about mj not being able to do the shows etc. rowe basically admitted in his book he was the source for all that crap.no doubt this event will come up in any trial. it will be intresting to say the least

so does Rowe feel any guilt over MJ's death since he was the one planting stories and putting a lot of stress on Mike?

 

[ivy]

Re: Update : Ortega removed as defendant / Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / AEG wants case dismissed

Thanks for breaking that down ivy.

I was hoping the Judge would have touched upon whether Murray was an AEG hire or not. I guess that will be for the jury to decide.

it's for the jury to decide. Because when we look to it we have 2 possibilities

1. as Michael never signed the contract it wasn't binding
2. oral contract / promise to hire Murray / Murray already beginning work is enough

Here's a question: Will Katherine have to prove that AEG knew what Murray was doing to Michael after rehearsals were over?

IF so, I just don't see her being able to prove that. I mean, I have a feeling the three guys from AEG are going to say, they NEVER wanted to hire Murray in the first place. He was too expensive and they were just "appeasing" Michael, in a sense STALLING, until they arrived in London and then Michael would have chosen a local doctor.

Let's talk about burden of proof. In a civil case it's relatively easy.

In a criminal case you have prove your claims "beyond a reasonable doubt" which means like to a 95% certainty.

In a civil case it's more like preponderance of the evidence - meaning who has more strong, more relevant and more important evidence. In this case jury can come up with a guilty/ not guilty verdict with 51% certainty.

so in short do not expect a "definitive proof", however both sides will argue their case with their evidence and who has the better evidence will win.

So my 2-questions are: 1) proving Murray was actually an AEG employee; and 2) proving that AEG knew Murray was giving Michael Propofol. Will those 2 things determine the outcome of this case?

Like I said above not necessarily proving but presenting a convincing case will win.

 

[riviera1992]

Re: Update : Ortega removed as defendant / Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / AEG wants case dismissed

it's for the jury to decide. Because when we look to it we have 2 possibilities

1. as Michael never signed the contract it wasn't binding
2. oral contract / promise to hire Murray / Murray already beginning work is enough



Let's talk about burden of proof. In a civil case it's relatively easy.

In a criminal case you have prove your claims "beyond a reasonable doubt" which means like to a 95% certainty.

In a civil case it's more like preponderance of the evidence - meaning who has more strong, more relevant and more important evidence. In this case jury can come up with a guilty/ not guilty verdict with 51% certainty.

so in short do not expect a "definitive proof", however both sides will argue their case with their evidence and who has the better evidence will win.

Like I said above not necessarily proving but presenting a convincing case will win.

Who has the better lawyers will win. IMO

The company I work for just lost a lawsuit brought up against them by staff that got fired by new ownership.

This had been going on for 2 years now.

The remaining staff, us, we were like: There's no way the fired employees have a case. Half of them deserved to be let go for poor performance and the new ownership saw that right away and let them go.

Well guess what? The jury rule against the company and they had to pay them a bunch of money. Granted this was a class action suit and some of the staff were long time faithful employees. So I guess that's why the jury rule in their favor.

So you never really know. Specially that common folks who comprise the jury pool hate the corporate world, I'd say there's good chance Katherine wins.

 

[gerryevans]

Re: Update : Ortega removed as defendant / Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / AEG wants case dismissed

So you never really know. Specially that common folks who comprise the jury pool hate the corporate world, I'd say there's good chance Katherine wins.

Excellent point. Corporations are instantly equated with greed and even evil. I never thought Katherine had the edge in this thing, but I'm beginning to think differently.

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: Update : Case stays alive/ Ortega removed/ Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / AEG wants case dismis

The Jacksons want a settlement. There argument is so ridiculous that any can see it for what it is

 

[serendipity]

Re: Update : Case stays alive/ Ortega removed/ Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / AEG wants case dismis

^I agree. A settlement would be great for them -- they'll get rich a lot quicker and won't have to embarrass themselves in court. lol

IMO, if it goes to trial it could go either way -- people may usually hate the corporate world, but if the Jacksons present some ridiculous/unreliable witnesses like Leonard Rowe and Karen Faye and come off looking greedy and wanting to profit from MJ's death, the jury may very well rule against them. You never know.

 

[Big Apple2]

Re: Update : Ortega removed as defendant / Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / AEG wants case dismissed

Specially that common folks who comprise the jury pool hate the corporate world, I'd say there's good chance Katherine wins.

The "common folks" that comprise a jury pool are NOT just made up of the butcher, the baker, and the candlestick maker. Today's jury pool is also comprised of doctors, lawyers, stockbrokers, and yes, the dreaded workers and heads of large corporations.

I'll tell you what jury members REALLY don't like and that's when folks testify to untruths!

I sat on a jury this past summer for 4 weeks. Young lady claimed her son was born with various medical and learning disabilities because of lack of air during child birth.

We of course felt her pain - AT FIRST!

She testified and dang near everything she said was a lie and EVIDENCE was presented to back up the fact that she was not being truthful. For instance, she said the child had a good school record, when EVIDENCE showed that the child missed weeks and weeks of school at a time. When they presented her with medical forms she filled out that didn't back up what she was testifying to, she said that was not her handwriting. On and on it went.

She asked for MILLIONS of dollars for herself, due to pain, suffering and lack of services. She also asked for MILLIONS MORE for her son.

Bottomline, her son got a small award, she was awarded NOTHING!

 

[ruchie]

Re: Update : Case stays alive/ Ortega removed/ Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / AEG wants case dismis

With all my Heart and Prayer for this family.They Need Justice,They Need Vindication, They Need This case to be Won.I hope The Jackson family will get what they are seeking. #JUSTICE4MJ

 

[chanel05]

Re: Update : Case stays alive/ Ortega removed/ Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / AEG wants case dismis

I just had another thought.

Do you guys remember the meeting that took place in a bungalow at a California hotel (can't remember the name of the hotel)? It was attended by Michael, Randy Phillips, Leonard Rowe, Katherine & Joe Jackson, along with some other folks.

I know everybody has a theory as to what that meeting was about, but in my opinion that meeting was clearly regarding the ALLGOOD ENTERTAINMENT deal.

If that is correct, I expect Randy Phillips to testify as to EXACTLY what went on during that meeting and if Rowe, Joe and Katherine were PRESSURING Michael to do that Family Reunion Concert, during the same time they now claim Michael was so out of it. That bit of information, if true, will not sit well with their claims, in my opinion.

I remember that meeting but I remember it differently. All Good contacted Delio, not Rowe or Joe. I'm not even sure they had anything to do with All Good. If they did they would've been named in the suit with Frank. All Good claims there were lead along by Frank. Also, why would Rowe and Joe talking to the the CEO of AEG about AllGoood??? That wouldnt make sense especially since MJ had already signed the contract and there was no getting out of it. I think that meeting had something to do with AEG and MJ. I still don't understand why Katherine and Joe had to be there though?? Obviously MJ wanted them there for a reason. Hopefully we will hear the truth about that meeting and what went down. We really only heard Rowes side and I can't believe him 100%

And another thing, wasn't Frank Dileo the one who was supposed to get MJ in on it? I thought Frank was in negotiations with AllGood a while before the whole AEG announcement.. All of this reeks.. No one in this mess should have a clear conscience.

you and I have the same info because that's how I heard it also. If you believe Rowe, he said they were talking about things he felt in the contract that was unfair to MJ. I don't know I true his book is but if it's true, then that AEG deal was a mess.

 

[Big Apple2]

Re: Update : Case stays alive/ Ortega removed/ Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / AEG wants case dismis

I remember that meeting but I remember it differently. All Good contacted Delio, not Rowe or Joe. I'm not even sure they had anything to do with All Good. If they did they would've been named in the suit with Frank. All Good claims there were lead along by Frank. Also, why would Rowe and Joe talking to the the CEO of AEG about AllGoood??? That wouldnt make sense especially since MJ had already signed the contract and there was no getting out of it. I think that meeting had something to do with AEG and MJ. I still don't understand why Katherine and Joe had to be there though?? Obviously MJ wanted them there for a reason. Hopefully we will hear the truth about that meeting and what went down. We really only heard Rowes side and I can't believe him 100%

First of all, as per Patrick Allocco from AllGood Entertainment, Leonard Rowe was on THEIR payroll. As per Allocco, Joe Jackson told him to get in touch with Frank DiLeo, because "Michael will listen to Frank." Allocco then got in touch with Frank and that's how Frank got involved. (This forum did an extensive interview with Mr. Allocco, and all of the information is posted on this board.)

There are two things that Joe and Rowe could "possibly" be talking to AEG about. One would be trying to find a way for Michael to do the Family Reunion Concert, which wouldn't interfer with his obligations to AEG and/or Joe and Rowe wanted in on the AEG deal.

In my opinion, Katherine Jackson would be in attendance to "soften" Michael up. I believe she was ALWAYS the go-between for any request the family had for Michael, i.e. "tell Mother to ask him."

Oh and I SERIOUSLY doubt Michael wanted his father there. LOL!

When was the last time Michael Jackson actually wanted his father to be involved in any of his business? As always Joe Jackson just inserted himself into Michael's life for the purpose of earning some money.

 

[soulmum]

Re: Update : Case stays alive/ Ortega removed/ Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / AEG wants case dismis

Just hoping for the truth to come out whether it be in the Murray case or in the AEG suit.

 

[twinklEE]

Re: Update : Case stays alive/ Ortega removed/ Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / AEG wants case dismis

I think Karen is already bitter she just retweeted the following tweet : "Though Ortega obviously didnt murder Michael, in my opinion he is culpable in other ways."

Shut up, luny tune (Karen)

The list of "OTHERS" just got shorter.

LMAO!!

Kenny was essential to their lawsuit, the riot act incident which seemed the most 'damaging' evidence against AEG was based on what Kenny supposedly told Karen Faye. When they remove Kenny, they are admitting the scenario they claimed took place that day was baseless . How now they are going to prove AEG asked MJ to stop seeing Klien and demanded he only be treated by Murray?

I believe Katherine's lawyers are telling her people are gonna sue her for the false claims she listed in her lawsuit and that's the only way Katherine would back off .

I don't believe Randy agreed to remove Kenny, Randy and Karen were the two who came up with that story, I do believe the lawyers told Katherine people she wrongfully accused are sooner than later going to start to sue her.

I wish they'd sue her and the entire leeching pack, they'd deserve to get sued for defamation, slander and other things.

Finally!!!! Someone with common sense... The whole post gets 2 thumbs up from me...but the bolded part :clapping::clapping::clapping:

I am sick of people blaming others for MJ & Murray. MJ already paid the price for his mistake.

But blaming AEG & Kenny is pretty low. MJ was 50....folks need to stop acting like MJ was retarded. If he didn't want to eat blame Kenny...he wanted Murray as his MD blame AEG.

KO should have chewed the food and push it down MJ's throat. Just like Randy Phillips should have invade MJ's privacy & take up residence at the house and demanded to know what kind of treatment he was getting from Murray.

Waiting for someone to blame the children next...

Trust me, with as many luny tunes running around, and just as many money hungry ppl hoping to get something out of someone, somewhere, I wouldn't be surprised if the mental among fans and family decide do this next, or when the kids are of age.

wow. one thing for sure Jackson's never cease to amaze us.

and when will these "facts come out" ? with nothing coming out till now I'm feeling like this is a wild goose chase.

I wish the estate would sue Randy's ass for all the money he was stealing, but that's wishful thinking on my part I guess, I mean even if they would he'd play mental and get off again.

 

[StacyJ]

Re: Update : Case stays alive/ Ortega removed/ Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / AEG wants case dismis

First of all, as per Patrick Allocco from AllGood Entertainment, Leonard Rowe was on THEIR payroll. As per Allocco, Joe Jackson told him to get in touch with Frank DiLeo, because "Michael will listen to Frank." Allocco then got in touch with Frank and that's how Frank got involved. (This forum did an extensive interview with Mr. Allocco, and all of the information is posted on this board.)

There are two things that Joe and Rowe could "possibly" be talking to AEG about. One would be trying to find a way for Michael to do the Family Reunion Concert, which wouldn't interfer with his obligations to AEG and/or Joe and Rowe wanted in on the AEG deal.

In my opinion, Katherine Jackson would be in attendance to "soften" Michael up. I believe she was ALWAYS the go-between for any request the family had for Michael, i.e. "tell Mother to ask him."

Oh and I SERIOUSLY doubt Michael wanted his father there. LOL!

When was the last time Michael Jackson actually wanted his father to be involved in any of his business? As always Joe Jackson just inserted himself into Michael's life for the purpose of earning some money.

You are so right... Joe and Rowe saw dollar signs so they were all in the mix

 

[Big Apple2]

Re: Update : Case stays alive/ Ortega removed/ Katherine & MJ's kids sue AEG / AEG wants case dismis

You are so right... Joe and Rowe saw dollar signs so they were all in the mix

Of course so. In my opinion Joe Jackson is the one who was PUSHING Leonard Rowe on Michael.

Joe Jackson knew if he could get Leonard Rowe on the "inside" then he too would be able to obtain a piece of the pie.

And if I had to chose one over the other, I would say Joe and Rowe REALLY wanted in on the AEG deal. I mean, the AllGood Entertainment deal was a relatively small, compared to the AEG deal.