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surveillance tapes (all threads merged)

"The video shows Jackson coming home from rehearsal at around 12:30 AM. " But, wasn't reported back on June 2009, that MJJ left Staples at 1:30 AM?
 
PCR said:
really? and so... how reliable is TMZ as a source?

:mello:
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interms of legal things ie actual court documents tmz arent to bad as a source. the problem is sometimes with fans who go to court and have no legal knowledge and mixing things up by accident like the above poster did on other things.thats why i said we need to be careful inregards to everything that is said.im not supporting one over the other
 
I asked Sharon B. Sidney who attend the court hearings, this is Sharon's answer

"they spoke of the cameras and prosecution said it's somewhere from 13-15 minutes of footage claiming it was motion operated. Defense has stated they have est. 4 min. of footage. This from what they claim is from the only outside camera and that the original footage would have erased itself whereas the 15 min. they claim to have is from the police download"

so my understanding is that prosecution says the footage is only 15 minutes because it's motion operated - meaning it didn't record constantly only recorded when there was any movement. Prosecution is saying that police downloaded / copied 15 minutes and the original erased itself the next day.

and defense only got the 4 minutes (showing Michael's arrival?) and wanting the rest.

what could these outside camera(s) record as far as we know?

Michael's arrival and leaving of security
Night security leaving - day security coming to work ( if the security trailer is in the record area)
cook coming to work into the house
security going into the house after Murray's phone call
arrival of paramedics and going into the house

and going with what TMZ said if they weren't suspicious at that time and only wanted to establish timeline they would be only interested in the time period of Michael's arrival to paramedics arrival. If there was minimal people coming and going to the house (like I mentioned above) it's likely that the whole footage could be 15 minutes (again stopping at the moment paramedics arrive).
 
but if they DIDN"T look at the whole 24 hour footage..anyone could of entered that house...they dropped the ball on this...they should of looked at ALL the footage..there really isn't any excuse for them not doing so imo.
 
xthunderx2 said:
but if they DIDN"T look at the whole 24 hour footage..anyone could of entered that house...they dropped the ball on this...they should of looked at ALL the footage..there really isn't any excuse for them not doing so imo.
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if the cameras were motion sensored like they said the "24 hr" footage would not be 24 hours. and if it resets at 12:00 as they said than it would only have the footage of 12:00 AM June 25th to 12:22PM paramedics arrival.

also don't forget that the house had a 24 hr security, house staff, MJ's kids etc in it.
 
yeah.if its a motion sensored camera u would only have footage when there is movement ie ppl coming and going. so there is no 24hrs of footage. if they have 15mins of footage thats all that was recorded cause thats the amount of time when something was actually happening. it wasnt a continuas recording device

so from going by the above theres 11 mins that the defence dont have and want out of 15
 
I thought motion censored still recorded 24 hours, it that is records motion also. So instead of the camera just being in one position and seeing people walk in and walk out of the camera frame.... It would start recording an object within a certain range until they got too far out the range. ( does anyone see what I'm saying?)
 
ivy said:
if the cameras were motion sensored like they said the "24 hr" footage would not be 24 hours. and if it resets at 12:00 as they said than it would only have the footage of 12:00 AM June 25th to 12:22PM paramedics arrival.

also don't forget that the house had a 24 hr security, house staff, MJ's kids etc in it.
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That wouldn't be 24 hr. Since it restarts at 12, that just means that ie June 25 12am recorded over June 24 12am, and every minute after that. That's what I got from it.. I'm just trying to figure out how it works.
 
There are many types of security camera on the market, but a motion sensor security camera offers advantages over the regular camera and therefore are a very popular choice with those wanting an advanced security solution. Here I explain 5 of the major advantages of these types of security camera.
1. Record only the video you need.
A regular home security camera can only record constantly or at set time periods. A motion sensor surveillance camera may be configured to record video only if motion is actually observed. What this means is the recording device will just record specific incidents rather than periods of countless tranquil intervals when absolutely nothing takes place, therefore your recorder will not be wasting valuable disk space.
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http://ezinearticles.com/?5-Reason-to-Buy-a-Motion-Sensor-Security-Camera-System&id=4343073
 
chanel05 said:
I thought motion censored still recorded 24 hours, it that is records motion also. So instead of the camera just being in one position and seeing people walk in and walk out of the camera frame.... It would start recording an object within a certain range until they got too far out the range. ( does anyone see what I'm saying?)
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I think Elusive moonwalker is right.

My understanding "motion sensored" means it only records when there's a movement. so even though there might be a 12 hour window between Michael's arrival and paramedics arrival it doesn't mean that there would be 12 hour of video footage.
 
ivy said:
I think Elusive moonwalker is right.

My understanding "motion sensored" means it only records when there's a movement. so even though there might be a 12 hour window between Michael's arrival and paramedics arrival it doesn't mean that there would be 12 hour of video footage.
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I think that's correct. It's like motion sensored outdoor lighting, that only switches "on" when there is movement. (My friends have lighting like that, by their garage. Sometimes deer pass through the "zone" and the lights turn on! There is a pre-set amount of time, and if the motion ceases, the lights turn off again. I.e., no motion, and it's dark, i.e., "off.")
 
What we really need is a statement from the security firm about what MJ ordered, what he had installed and how the system worked. Also need to know whether they were contacted by LAPD RHD over the footage and what exactly was the process of extracting the wanted footage. Let's have full clarity on this, because LAPD RHD admit that if they had the intelligent foresight to realise the case could turn into homicide, they would not have been so dismissive about the footage. Their excuse is very hard to believe by the way.

Is there any record that MJ paid for this security system? Did AEG pay for it by advancing MJ the money (as they did with practically everything else)? Whether the cams were motion-sensored or not doesn't really matter. If they weren't they would have recorded everything. If they were, they would have recorded people moving. So either way, the cams would have recorded activity - that's what we want to know. We're not interested in which way the wind is blowing.

So, if we had all the footage preserved, we would have seen MJ arriving with his security, Murray arriving, people entering and leaving the premises - Kai Chase, alvarez etc. It could also show whether the cams were turned off at some point or if they remained on the whole time. Lots of reasons you would not disregard footage. It should also be mentioned that one of the 'followers' Samantha de Gossen stated in her testimony that:

'In fact, instead of having 2-3 guards behind the gates at his house, it doubled and tripled and i even counted up to 12 of them on the night he died'

- Who were all these people? Were they not accounted for on the footage? What was MJ's overnight security does anyone know? Did he have no overnight security? Of course, we'd have to have Sam's story corroborated by other witnesses, but i see no reason for her to lie on this point.
 
QuirkyDiana00 said:
What we really need is a statement from the security firm about what MJ ordered, what he had installed and how the system worked. Also need to know whether they were contacted by LAPD RHD over the footage and what exactly was the process of extracting the wanted footage. Let's have full clarity on this, because LAPD RHD admit that if they had the intelligent foresight to realise the case could turn into homicide, they would not have been so dismissive about the footage. Their excuse is very hard to believe by the way.

Is there any record that MJ paid for this security system? Did AEG pay for it by advancing MJ the money (as they did with practically everything else)? Whether the cams were motion-sensored or not doesn't really matter. If they weren't they would have recorded everything. If they were, they would have recorded people moving. So either way, the cams would have recorded activity - that's what we want to know. We're not interested in which way the wind is blowing.

So, if we had all the footage preserved, we would have seen MJ arriving with his security, Murray arriving, people entering and leaving the premises - Kai Chase, alvarez etc. It could also show whether the cams were turned off at some point or if they remained on the whole time. Lots of reasons you would not disregard footage. It should also be mentioned that one of the 'followers' Samantha de Gossen stated in her testimony that:

'In fact, instead of having 2-3 guards behind the gates at his house, it doubled and tripled and i even counted up to 12 of them on the night he died'

- Who were all these people? Were they not accounted for on the footage? What was MJ's overnight security does anyone know? Did he have no overnight security? Of course, we'd have to have Sam's story corroborated by other witnesses, but i see no reason for her to lie on this point.
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I agree with every word of your post and have been wondering the same things for almost two years..there are still so many unanswered questions...and we will probably never get any of the answer we are looking for. This police work in this case has been terrible from the beginning. Its terrible.
 
I'm not sure whether it was already installed or not. Whose owns that house?

However, TMZ did an interview with couple of guys from the security firm whose equipment was in place at the house. The guys described the type of security system that was installed. MJ chose 1 type from a selection. They said the footage was kept on a hard drive but was backed up at the security firm. They also said that footage would only be lost if the camera was turned off.

The TMZ video of this interview was taken down from their site. Interview was done 2009 Jun/July.

According to reliable sources who have seen that interview (many people saw the interview live and many left comments after the interview finished), they maintain that the 2 guys were the ones who actually installed it personally and they said he asked for cams in places no one frequented like outside corners, etc.

Unless there is information to the contrary.....does anyone have a source for the info that MJ did not order and select the surveillance equipment?
 
noirnoar;3302087 said:
"The video shows Jackson coming home from rehearsal at around 12:30 AM. " But, wasn't reported back on June 2009, that MJJ left Staples at 1:30 AM?
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TMZ must have their info wrong on the time MJ came home. Fans who were waiting outside the house that night stated that Murray came home before MJ. Michael Amir Williams also stated in court that it was his job to ensure that Murray was at the house before MJ arrived back home from rehearsal, and this would be the routine. MJ arrived home after 1am.

Williams was asked if Murray's car was there when MJ arrived back home from staples the last night:

DW: When you arrive, was Dr. Murray’s car there?
MAW: Yes it was.

(Williams rides in the same vehicle as MJ).
 
QuirkyDiana00 said:
I'm not sure whether it was already installed or not. Whose owns that house?

However, TMZ did an interview with couple of guys from the security firm whose equipment was in place at the house. The guys described the type of security system that was installed. MJ chose 1 type from a selection. They said the footage was kept on a hard drive but was backed up at the security firm. They also said that footage would only be lost if the camera was turned off.

The TMZ video of this interview was taken down from their site. Interview was done 2009 Jun/July.

According to reliable sources who have seen that interview (many people saw the interview live and many left comments after the interview finished), they maintain that the 2 guys were the ones who actually installed it personally and they said he asked for cams in places no one frequented like outside corners, etc.

Unless there is information to the contrary.....does anyone have a source for the info that MJ did not order and select the surveillance equipment?
Click to expand...

Is there a print-copy of the TMZ interview? Link? I'm not doubting you, but personally, I've never heard of it. If the interview was in June, was it before June 25? If so, it would be highly irregular if not, well, STUPID for a security firm to discuss details of systems they install. Because that could negate the usefulness of the SECURITY? If people know what kind of system and where cameras were located?

I think the ownership of the house is discussed somewhere in this Case Forum. Might take awhile to find it, though? Let us know if you do?
 
Autumn II said:
Is there a print-copy of the TMZ interview? Link? I'm not doubting you, but personally, I've never heard of it. If the interview was in June, was it before June 25? If so, it would be highly irregular if not, well, STUPID for a security firm to discuss details of systems they install. Because that could negate the usefulness of the SECURITY? If people know what kind of system and where cameras were located?

I think the ownership of the house is discussed somewhere in this Case Forum. Might take awhile to find it, though? Let us know if you do?
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Oh no, absolutely not...the interview was done after MJ's death when TMZ were all over investigating it. If you remember, very early on it was reported in the media that something was amiss with the surveillance tapes (in hindsight, given what we know now with LAPD, that's an interesting story all by itself). I think it was reported on a few days after MJ died. So TMZ went and interviewed these 2 guys from the security firm. Lots of people saw this interview, it was a pretty hot topic at the time. Despite the fact i never saw this interview, i have spoken to people who have. When i was doing my own research into a few things, i did come across a screen shot of Harvey interviewing the 2 guys.....it's pretty well known imo. The interview was done end of June/beginning July. They took it down. I don't doubt the people who saw it.
 
QuirkyDiana00 said:
Oh no, absolutely not...the interview was done after MJ's death when TMZ were all over investigating it. If you remember, very early on it was reported in the media that something was amiss with the surveillance tapes (in hindsight, given what we know now with LAPD, that's an interesting story all by itself). I think it was reported on a few days after MJ died. So TMZ went and interviewed these 2 guys from the security firm. Lots of people saw this interview, it was a pretty hot topic at the time. Despite the fact i never saw this interview, i have spoken to people who have. When i was doing my own research into a few things, i did come across a screen shot of Harvey interviewing the 2 guys.....it's pretty well known imo. The interview was done end of June/beginning July. They took it down. I don't doubt the people who saw it.
Click to expand...

I didn't see the interview, and don't think I know anyone who did? I don't doubt it's existence, though. Early on (maybe on June 26?) there was a news blurb on CNN that "the security tapes were missing." Turns out, that "news" came from the National Enquirer.
 
Is there any information about who installed the tapes from a more reliable source? I did not hear about this interview either. It is strange that it was not discussed on this forum when we were all discussing the case in 09.
 
Autumn II said:
I didn't see the interview, and don't think I know anyone who did? I don't doubt it's existence, though. Early on (maybe on June 26?) there was a news blurb on CNN that "the security tapes were missing." Turns out, that "news" came from the National Enquirer.
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Petrarose said:
Is there any information about who installed the tapes from a more reliable source? I did not hear about this interview either. It is strange that it was not discussed on this forum when we were all discussing the case in 09.
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I have been digging through archives here for a good part of the day and I am unable to find this interview either..:(...
 
xthunderx2 said:
I have been digging through archives here for a good part of the day and I am unable to find this interview either..:(...
Click to expand...

I don't know what to say, but now that we are getting close to trail a lot of strange information seem to be popping up in the threads. We have to dissect information more than ever now.
 
QuirkyDiana00 said:
What we really need is a statement from the security firm about what MJ ordered, what he had installed and how the system worked. Also need to know whether they were contacted by LAPD RHD over the footage and what exactly was the process of extracting the wanted footage. Let's have full clarity on this, because LAPD RHD admit that if they had the intelligent foresight to realise the case could turn into homicide, they would not have been so dismissive about the footage. Their excuse is very hard to believe by the way.

Is there any record that MJ paid for this security system? Did AEG pay for it by advancing MJ the money (as they did with practically everything else)? Whether the cams were motion-sensored or not doesn't really matter. If they weren't they would have recorded everything. If they were, they would have recorded people moving. So either way, the cams would have recorded activity - that's what we want to know. We're not interested in which way the wind is blowing.

So, if we had all the footage preserved, we would have seen MJ arriving with his security, Murray arriving, people entering and leaving the premises - Kai Chase, alvarez etc. It could also show whether the cams were turned off at some point or if they remained on the whole time. Lots of reasons you would not disregard footage. It should also be mentioned that one of the 'followers' Samantha de Gossen stated in her testimony that:

'In fact, instead of having 2-3 guards behind the gates at his house, it doubled and tripled and i even counted up to 12 of them on the night he died'

- Who were all these people? Were they not accounted for on the footage? What was MJ's overnight security does anyone know? Did he have no overnight security? Of course, we'd have to have Sam's story corroborated by other witnesses, but i see no reason for her to lie on this point.
Click to expand...

Great questions and I hope we have the answers. :timer:
 
QuirkyDiana00 said:
Oh no, absolutely not...the interview was done after MJ's death when TMZ were all over investigating it. If you remember, very early on it was reported in the media that something was amiss with the surveillance tapes (in hindsight, given what we know now with LAPD, that's an interesting story all by itself). I think it was reported on a few days after MJ died. So TMZ went and interviewed these 2 guys from the security firm. Lots of people saw this interview, it was a pretty hot topic at the time. Despite the fact i never saw this interview, i have spoken to people who have. When i was doing my own research into a few things, i did come across a screen shot of Harvey interviewing the 2 guys.....it's pretty well known imo. The interview was done end of June/beginning July. They took it down. I don't doubt the people who saw it.
Click to expand...

Hi Diana Welcome :)
glad you can finally post in the dicussions

Ed Hardy was the owner of 100 Carrolwood drive
AEG was paying rent and expenses for MJ to live there. They payed security and the help
none of them that I know of made a claim to the estate for disimbursment for thier services.
Im not sure if MJ was to reimburse AEG or not from hisi concert profits.

Yes MJ had overnight security
Security testified they stayed in a trailer outside the home. During the day, the front door is unlocked?
There were two men 24/7 hours a day, to open the gate and screen everyone who came in.


TMZ Interview
maybe check in the archives of the boards these people are on to see if
they ever discussed this interview when it happened. That would be more
helpful then just anyone stating it in hindsight with no proof.

we need the interview or a dicussion from that time about the interview.
Fans say a lot of things to promote their own agenda. We can not always
rely on fans for the truth. This is a FACT most know from being on fan boards
for many years. Im not saying it isnt true just we the actual interview or dicussion
of it to be able to come to a reasonable conclusion

The testimony of ONE unknown person about the amount of security tripling that evening
has never been colabarated by anyone else .. in fact all present witnesses have never stated
any such thing .. so we should take that with a grain of salt.

I have reviewed the archives of all the main MJ boards I frequent and see no mention
of this interview during that time on any of them. Not saying it didnt happen but why
would no one discuss it. It seems its non-existant as far as the fan boards go.
 
Last edited:
qbee said:
Hi Diana Welcome :)
glad you can finally post in the dicussions

Ed Hardy was the owner of 100 Carrolwood drive
AEG was paying rent and expenses for MJ to live there. They payed security and the help
none of them that I know of made a claim to the estate for disimbursment for thier services.
Im not sure if MJ was to reimburse AEG or not from hisi concert profits.

Yes MJ had overnight security
Security testified they stayed in a trailer outside the home. During the day, the front door is unlocked?
There were two men 24/7 hours a day, to open the gate and screen everyone who came in.


TMZ Interview
maybe check in the archives of the boards these people are on to see if
they ever discussed this interview when it happened. That would be more
helpful then just anyone stating it in hindsight with no proof.

we need the interview or a dicussion from that time about the interview.
Fans say a lot of things to promote their own agenda. We can not always
rely on fans for the truth. This is a FACT most know from being on fan boards
for many years. Im not saying it isnt true just we the actual interview or dicussion
of it to be able to come to a reasonable conclusion

The testimony of ONE unknown person about the amount of security tripling that evening
has never been colabarated by anyone else .. in fact all present witnesses have never stated
any such thing .. so we should take that with a grain of salt.

I have reviewed the archives of all the main MJ boards I frequent and see no mention
of this interview during that time on any of them. Not saying it didnt happen but why
would no one discuss it. It seems its non-existant as far as the fan boards go.
Click to expand...

And fans should be careful to rely on that ONE persons info, she has her own agenda.
 
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