Is Kenny Ortega Lying in court?

[ginvid]

Whatever Michael wants, Michael gets. Someone said that, I just don't remember who. The Pope can beg him to stop and not tempt fate and Mike would still do it. He's that hardheaded and stubborn and he was willing to take that chance. That's what I gathered from my research of 2 years and is just my opinion. It's not meant as negative criticism.

He took a chance with an idiot of a doctor because he was desperate enough to overlook that fact. He took a chance by not demanding the resuscitating equipment and nurse. A desperate man who has not slept for days will take that chance.

Tabloids are not the only source of information.

Well, please do not take this as a negative criticism either, (and I say this while hiding my Mod hat) I am really sick of people like you. Reading your posts makes me want to scratch my eyes out. It really bothers me when people who don't know the situation, (and think they are these expert researchers, yet cannot follow the basic rules of research), come to these conclusions they couldn't possibly know, (and are not very reasonable on some levels), and try to act as if they are Sherlock Holmes and have solved the case because their expert research leads them to a conclusion we couldn't possibly see because I guess we are stupid and blind. I really try to be calm when responding to this, but sometimes it just doesn't work. There are so many conflicting stories that it is impossible to know what was going on exactly, unless something supernatural happens. However, we can go by what information we have from before, his past actions. They help lead us into what was more probable.
You don't know what MJ's "desperation" level was. You don't know how long it was before he slept. And, to say he "took a chance" as if by some whim he decided that today I'm going to use diprivan, like he was scratching a lottery ticket, really blows my head. But what really sends me in a tizzy is when people like you insinuate that MJ was to blame and then write "I am not blaming MJ", which you wrote because you knew very well in your post that that was exactly what you were doing. I am not saying people shouldn't wonder about the level of MJ's knowledge about what was going on. I am not saying people can't wonder at MJ's state if he allowed this to happen. What I am saying is that we do not know what he allowed. We don't know what the actual circumstances were. We don't know who to trust. We have bits and pieces of a bunch of stories that conflict at every turn. Yet, with all of this conflict, people still will not hesitate to post in threads trying to see what Murray did and knew, since he IS the one on trial, and try to use these threads as a means for crapping on a man's grave. Bottom line is, whatever MJ knew or did not know, Murray is the one that is alive. He is the one on trial. I wish some people would focus more on the purpose of this section. Ugh!

 

[xthunderx2]

Well, please do not take this as a negative criticism either, (and I say this while hiding my Mod hat) I am really sick of people like you. Reading your posts makes me want to scratch my eyes out. It really bothers me when people who don't know the situation, (and think they are these expert researchers, yet cannot follow the basic rules of research), come to these conclusions they couldn't possibly know, (and are not very reasonable on some levels), and try to act as if they are Sherlock Holmes and have solved the case because their expert research leads them to a conclusion we couldn't possibly see because I guess we are stupid and blind. I really try to be calm when responding to this, but sometimes it just doesn't work. There are so many conflicting stories that it is impossible to know what was going on exactly, unless something supernatural happens. However, we can go by what information we have from before, his past actions. They help lead us into what was more probable.
You don't know what MJ's "desperation" level was. You don't know how long it was before he slept. And, to say he "took a chance" as if by some whim he decided that today I'm going to use diprivan, like he was scratching a lottery ticket, really blows my head. But what really sends me in a tizzy is when people like you insinuate that MJ was to blame and then write "I am not blaming MJ", which you wrote because you knew very well in your post that that was exactly what you were doing. I am not saying people shouldn't wonder about the level of MJ's knowledge about what was going on. I am not saying people can't wonder at MJ's state if he allowed this to happen. What I am saying is that we do not know what he allowed. We don't know what the actual circumstances were. We don't know who to trust. We have bits and pieces of a bunch of stories that conflict at every turn. Yet, with all of this conflict, people still will not hesitate to post in threads trying to see what Murray did and knew, since he IS the one on trial, and try to use these threads as a means for crapping on a man's grave. Bottom line is, whatever MJ knew or did not know, Murray is the one that is alive. He is the one on trial. I wish some people would focus more on the purpose of this section. Ugh!

oh man ginvid...you said it ALL....thank you so much for this posts...I stand by you 10000%..:clapping::clapping::clapping:

 

[bluetopez]

Well, please do not take this as a negative criticism either, (and I say this while hiding my Mod hat) I am really sick of people like you. Reading your posts makes me want to scratch my eyes out. It really bothers me when people who don't know the situation, (and think they are these expert researchers, yet cannot follow the basic rules of research), come to these conclusions they couldn't possibly know, (and are not very reasonable on some levels), and try to act as if they are Sherlock Holmes and have solved the case because their expert research leads them to a conclusion we couldn't possibly see because I guess we are stupid and blind. I really try to be calm when responding to this, but sometimes it just doesn't work. There are so many conflicting stories that it is impossible to know what was going on exactly, unless something supernatural happens. However, we can go by what information we have from before, his past actions. They help lead us into what was more probable.
You don't know what MJ's "desperation" level was. You don't know how long it was before he slept. And, to say he "took a chance" as if by some whim he decided that today I'm going to use diprivan, like he was scratching a lottery ticket, really blows my head. But what really sends me in a tizzy is when people like you insinuate that MJ was to blame and then write "I am not blaming MJ", which you wrote because you knew very well in your post that that was exactly what you were doing. I am not saying people shouldn't wonder about the level of MJ's knowledge about what was going on. I am not saying people can't wonder at MJ's state if he allowed this to happen. What I am saying is that we do not know what he allowed. We don't know what the actual circumstances were. We don't know who to trust. We have bits and pieces of a bunch of stories that conflict at every turn. Yet, with all of this conflict, people still will not hesitate to post in threads trying to see what Murray did and knew, since he IS the one on trial, and try to use these threads as a means for crapping on a man's grave. Bottom line is, whatever MJ knew or did not know, Murray is the one that is alive. He is the one on trial. I wish some people would focus more on the purpose of this section. Ugh!

Yes, thank you! If some already think they solved the case then why even come to the case section or pay attention to the trial at all?! Because I highly doubt MJ just said "well, what the hell Murray just do whatever and let's see what happens?!":smilerolleyes:

 

[Ashtanga]

The best part:

What I am saying is that we do not know what he allowed. We don't know what the actual circumstances were. We don't know who to trust. We have bits and pieces of a bunch of stories that conflict at every turn. Yet, with all of this conflict, people still will not hesitate to post in threads trying to see what Murray did and knew, since he IS the one on trial, and try to use these threads as a means for crapping on a man's grave. Bottom line is, whatever MJ knew or did not know, Murray is the one that is alive. He is the one on trial. I wish some people would focus more on the purpose of this section. Ugh!

Thanks for your post! :clapping:

 

[betseyby67]

I bow to your wisdom and retract whatever I said. Everyday is a learning experience and I certainly learned something today and if it will make me understand Mike more then I accept your positive criticism.

 

[MichaelPureSoul]

Kenny Ortega has been put on the spot, and he KNOWS a lot, I find it hard to believe him, he's protecting others if not himself.

We have no proof to know that what Murray has said or will say in court if he testifies is the truth, my feeling is he never will say the truth, so we cannot count on it to be shown in court, the truth may never be known when so many things don't add up, and people lie under oath, there will be many liars on the stand trying to lay the blame on others.

Murray messed with the scene while he wasted precious time before calling 911 and while paramedics were waiting for him in the ambulance to go to the hospital. The LAPD compromised the setting and evidence in so many ways, we may be missing things, we may have things that have been set-up that don't belong, etc.

Lidocaine was not purchased, I heard, until June, so how could he have been administering propofol for 6 weeks, sounds impossible.

Murray ordered the equipment for the UK, sounds like the plan was to use the propofol for sleep during the concerts and not in LA. So when did he start using it, if he did before June 25th and what was the method he was using to administer it, etc. is the BIG QUESTION.

Testimonies are contradicting, evidence is contradicting, AR results are contradicting with other things, etc.

I find it hard to know what the TRUTH is, and if we will ever know it.

 

[rollofthunder]

Kenny Ortega has been put on the spot, and he KNOWS a lot, I find it hard to believe him, he's protecting others if not himself.

We have no proof to know that what Murray has said or will say in court if he testifies is the truth, my feeling is he never will say the truth, so we cannot count on it to be shown in court, the truth may never be known when so many things don't add up, and people lie under oath, there will be many liars on the stand trying to lay the blame on others.

Murray messed with the scene while he wasted precious time before calling 911 and while paramedics were waiting for him in the ambulance to go to the hospital. The LAPD compromised the setting and evidence in so many ways, we may be missing things, we may have things that have been set-up that don't belong, etc.

Lidocaine was not purchased, I heard, until June, so how could he have been administering propofol for 6 weeks, sounds impossible.

Murray ordered the equipment for the UK, sounds like the plan was to use the propofol for sleep during the concerts and not in LA. So when did he start using it, if he did before June 25th and what was the method he was using to administer it, etc. is the BIG QUESTION.

Testimonies are contradicting, evidence is contradicting, AR results are contradicting with other things, etc.

I find it hard to know what the TRUTH is, and if we will ever know it.

According to testimony from sprockets, lidocaine was purchased May 12:

http://sprocket-trials.blogspot.com/2011/01/dr-conrad-murray-prelim-day-5-part-i.html

Telephonic order May 12th. New.

Ordered 4 boxes of propolfol 100 mil in each box.
1 box of 20ml vial 25mi
tow trays of diazlpam
lidocane 2% cream I made for him, 60 grams.

I would agree that testimonies are contradicting because people are lying. I think we will get to the truth though.

 

[cinzia]

According to testimony from sprockets, lidocaine was purchased May 12:

http://sprocket-trials.blogspot.com/2011/01/dr-conrad-murray-prelim-day-5-part-i.html

Telephonic order May 12th. New.

Ordered 4 boxes of propolfol 100 mil in each box.
1 box of 20ml vial 25mi
tow trays of diazlpam
lidocane 2% cream I made for him, 60 grams.

I would agree that testimonies are contradicting because people are lying. I think we will get to the truth though.

Well, this is interesting. Propofol burns IN the vein. Topical lidocaine would numb the skin and shouldn't have any effect on the pain of the infused propofol. All it would do is numb the skin when the IV was started. A wheal of NS would do the same thing.
In order for the lidocaine to work it has to be infused either with or before the propofol. So I can't imagine why the lidocaine cream or gel.

 

[xthunderx2]

Well, this is interesting. Propofol burns IN the vein. Topical lidocaine would numb the skin and shouldn't have any effect on the pain of the infused propofol. All it would do is numb the skin when the IV was started. A wheal of NS would do the same thing.
In order for the lidocaine to work it has to be infused either with or before the propofol. So I can't imagine why the lidocaine cream or gel.

the bolded....Murray was to stupid to know that cinzia....there are alot of this that Murray should know as a cardiologist that he doesn't...One is NOT to administer propofol at home and the second is how to do cpr...and the third is to monitor his patient...and the fourth is not to lie about what he did ..because the truth surfaces at some point.

 

[jrsfan]

Well, this is interesting. Propofol burns IN the vein. Topical lidocaine would numb the skin and shouldn't have any effect on the pain of the infused propofol. All it would do is numb the skin when the IV was started. A wheal of NS would do the same thing.
In order for the lidocaine to work it has to be infused either with or before the propofol. So I can't imagine why the lidocaine cream or gel.

http://sprocket-trials.blogspot.com/2011/01/dr-conrad-murray-prelim-day-5-part-i.html
He ordered injectable lidocaine in June:

June 10, 2009 another 1 tray of lidocaine injectable
25 ????
4 boxes of propofol 10mil (40 individual vials)
2 propofol 20 mi, total of 50 bottles
20 2 60 gram Benoquin
30? capsules of energy formulation.

DDA Q: Where shipped to?
Lopez: Santa Monica.
(paraphrasing testimony) June 15th 2009, Murray placed another order.

 

[KOPV]

Michael rehearsed roughly 6 hours on June 18th.. I and other fans fallowed him to the Forum.. vehicles did inter the house prior and leave.. Fans fallowed him to the Forum daily.