Yeah, obviously since it's the most recently recorded stuff prior to 2007...I recognized that whoo on BN even from that little teaser we heard almost 1 year ago...I thought to myself...'wow, that sounds awfully familiar'...lol...Although, I didn't hear the YRMW music in the background...I'll have to listen again...
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Yeah, obviously since it's the most recently recorded stuff prior to 2007...I recognized that whoo on BN even from that little teaser we heard almost 1 year ago...I thought to myself...'wow, that sounds awfully familiar'...lol...Although, I didn't hear the YRMW music in the background...I'll have to listen again...
and I'm not denying it. but if we are talking about legal aspects what is legal / illegal / fraud / not fraud is a lot different than what you find production wise acceptable or not.
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You are talking about an issue after the material has been released and recognized as Michael by the Estate. I however am talking about the essence of the songs themselves, not about the fraud lawsuit. I am questioning the way it has been put together, wrapped and presented by the owners/creators. As far as I am concerned, I vehemently show my opposition to their lack of transparency regarding those tracks before talking about any kind of fraud or lawsuit.
So if I convince the Estate and the musicologists with an impersonator voice that I possess MJ's songs I can sell them as such despite what the fans hear (not Michael)?
How do we know we have genuine songs by MJ and not fabrications? There are no proofs.
I didn't put it that way. Let me simplify it: on Hollywood Tonight there are additional (supporting) vocals, maybe some pasted things (I haven't really paid attention). Yet, the point is, I can clearly say who sings Hollywood Tonight and who gets involved with supporting vocals despite the fact that the song was processed. There is no ambiguity.
The same goes for Behind the Mask. I can clearly hear that the concert audio snippets have been pasted at the beginning of the song.
But in case of the Cascio songs I:
-don't hear husk/grit
-don't know who sings what
-don't know where and when the ad-libs are pasted
-don't know why they pasted words in the middle of the sentences
-hear previously released melodies such as: "Stranger in Moscow", "Heaven Can Wait", "2 Bad", "Threatened", "Earth Song", "You are not alone", "You rock my world", etc...
-don't hear MJ's usual timbre
-hear strange lengthy vibrato
-hear different accent
-hear unusual snort
etc.
So all these questions (and there are too many in my opinion) haven't been properly answered by the Estate, yet this latter leads the fans to believe that it is the voice we had been listening to previously all these years. Now, that's what I call "leading". Do you understand what I want to say? Everything there can be legal, but with so many discrepancies it does not mean that Michael himself had been involved in any way. Indeed, there is no single trace of him working on those 12 songs with Eddie.
Without proof it is going to be extremely difficult to make the fans believe that it is MJ. The controversy is due to what the fans hear and not due to what Taryll had said.
Evidence is not proof. So far all we have is recorded vocals, nothing more. If you see more, please inform me, but till now I haven't heard MJ singing on those tracks. When one day you hear Burn Tonight, you might reconsider what you really hear. Even KingmikeJ who strongly believed the Cascio tracks were genuine doesn't hear MJ on Burn 2nite. Yet, as Grent said, it is the same voice as on all other Cascio tracks.
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I don't think that fans care about what is legal. They just want more ethics in all this. They don't want to be duped only because it is legal. What is legal in one country isn't in another, and the fans are not from one country, they are from all over the world. So the ethics should prevail in this case.
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Because you bring up legal matters. None of the fans are interested in what is legal regarding those tracks. They just want to hear Michael when they buy an MJ album. In this case they don't hear it. Now, legal or not legal, they still don't hear it and that drives them crazy. Can't you see that fans are happier with illegal blue gangsta, STTR or DYKWYCA than with legal BN, Monster, KYHU?
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When I heard the very first notes of BN, I honestly thought it was an outtake from Invincible because it sounded so much like YRMW! I didn't care nor know what were Cascio tracks and what not.
love is magical
Proud Member
EXACTLY!!! Treating Michael's music with respect and integrity is all that fans want. And, it should be an unanimous opinion among fans. It seems so many have excused the despicable fabrications to posthumous release. I'm so pessimistic about future music release after the album Michael.
dude you started mentioning about asking experts "is it malachi", I just said "in a court of law it would be leading" - that's all. then you wrote multiple answers probing, debating,disagreeing even asking about the law examples. if you don't want legal discussion when I write "in a court of law" respond with "I'm not talking about court of law" and do not ask for legal explanations and examples. if you are going to ask questions like "how is this one is leading but this one is not" or ask for "reference in legislation" then please do not say that "no one is interested in what's legal". You clearly were - or I thought so. If not interested then please don't ask such questions so that I won't waste my time trying to explain something you aren't interested.
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Dudette, where did you see me asking about what is legal and what not? You start answering almost every post by "in court of law...".
Now after you indtroduced the idea of court of law, I asked you to give me a reference in the legislation, an article where it says what is leading. But all you gave was some example of cases without precising which article stipulates it. Fine, no problem even if you don't mention the articles, all I am saying is that "in court of law" or not, legal or not, fans never debated about it, because after all they don't hear Michael. So, that is why I said that the reality of the situation is that the fans do not take into consideration the legal aspect, but what they hear.
bluetopez
Proud Member
Good to hear from Gaz on the Cirque thread that "Breaking news" and "Monster" will not be added to the Cirque shows! But, they might still use 50 cent rap?! 
Not good IMO. This show should have only MJ and plus it's still using a cascio track. So it's still not listening to the fans who are concern about this if they still use it!?
People might think where's is that rap from and find out and then buy the album....NO! >=( Plus, now that have considered using aInvincible track like "Threatend"....FINALLY. So they should just take any Cascio songs out that way there won't be an issue. Like really... is it that hard for them to not use those darn songs at all? The Michael Album do have the real MJ IMO in it that are non Cascio tracks! So why not stick to those tracks instead, if u want songs from the new album?!
Not good IMO. This show should have only MJ and plus it's still using a cascio track. So it's still not listening to the fans who are concern about this if they still use it!? People might think where's is that rap from and find out and then buy the album....NO! >=( Plus, now that have considered using aInvincible track like "Threatend"....FINALLY. So they should just take any Cascio songs out that way there won't be an issue. Like really... is it that hard for them to not use those darn songs at all? The Michael Album do have the real MJ IMO in it that are non Cascio tracks! So why not stick to those tracks instead, if u want songs from the new album?!
Member Service
Staff
Dear members fans and followers
As you all know, several songs in the show will not end up in the final show, and several that are WILL be in the show come October 2. the Estate and Cirque stressed during, this is very much a work-in-progress and there continue to be changes made to all aspects of the show - not only the music.
There are various reasons for these changes – some creative, some because of clearance issues and other reasons. For example, as a result of the rehearsals that have taken place, “Cry”, “Breaking News”, “Monster” (though a portion of 50 Cent’s rap may be used), and “Off The Wall” are now no longer in the show. “Man In The Mirror” has moved, and “Threatened” has been added, as has an additional use of “Bad”. Some of the routines have also been changed including, for example, “Wanna Be Startin’ Somethin’”. And more changes are expected.
We wanted you to have this inside info right from the source,
For me it is clear the Estate and Cirque have both Michael's best interests and well as his fans in ensuring his legacy is paramount
Regards
As you all know, several songs in the show will not end up in the final show, and several that are WILL be in the show come October 2. the Estate and Cirque stressed during, this is very much a work-in-progress and there continue to be changes made to all aspects of the show - not only the music.
There are various reasons for these changes – some creative, some because of clearance issues and other reasons. For example, as a result of the rehearsals that have taken place, “Cry”, “Breaking News”, “Monster” (though a portion of 50 Cent’s rap may be used), and “Off The Wall” are now no longer in the show. “Man In The Mirror” has moved, and “Threatened” has been added, as has an additional use of “Bad”. Some of the routines have also been changed including, for example, “Wanna Be Startin’ Somethin’”. And more changes are expected.
We wanted you to have this inside info right from the source,
For me it is clear the Estate and Cirque have both Michael's best interests and well as his fans in ensuring his legacy is paramount
Regards
Chamife
Proud Member
This is hopeful and such good news! (hopefully the rap also is excluded, then it would be perfect). It feels like a little victory for 'the doubters'. Not that's it about winning or losing, of course, but it gives a bit of hope that fans are being listened to. I don't think everybody is that happy with the exclusions, though....... Great message to them that their songs don't belong in this tribute.
. Great message to them that their songs don't belong in this tribute.So happy they've taken out the Cascio tracks...Set aside the authenticity issue, I never understood why they wanted use the songs in the first place. There are far more superior songs on the 'Michael' album anyway...BTM and HT would be stellar to use...But I'm just glad they've taken them out and added at least Threatened! LOVE that song! My excitement for the show has just been reignited lol..November 1st! :wild:
Jesta
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I'm OK with 50's rap being in there, after all this is a tribute for Michael and his rap was a tribute to him, albeit on a misplaced song. Threatened is AMAZING news because finally Invincible is getting recognized! A bit sad that Behind the Mask isn't in the show (as of yet) but I'm still very excited about the show and everyone going to it! This is a tremendous victory, but PLEASE don't go off in a fit of rage if 50's rap is in there briefly, that part wasn't made by the Cascios.
Gaz, is it possible that between now and October 2nd, any other songs might be added, like say Behind the Mask?
Gaz, is it possible that between now and October 2nd, any other songs might be added, like say Behind the Mask?
^^ I don't really care about 50's rap...It's more of a tribute anyway, like you said, Jesta...That's how the general public and casual fans will take it - they won't know that it's a rap from a fabricated song, so that's all that matters...
Now I just need to know how I'm gonna contain my excitement for the next month lool
Now I just need to know how I'm gonna contain my excitement for the next month lool
Jesta
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MAY be used, Pentum. MAY be used... If they took out the other songs, they could very well take that out. I'm still hoping that Hollywood or Behind the Mask gets in the show still, maybe Tabloid Junkie. The show is ever-evolving.
Maybe it'll be set to Threatened instrumental? But then again maybe not with Rod Serling's rap...I don't know..
Yeah, maybe. Still don't see the point in bringing in 50 Cent in this show... Anyway, I'm going.
love is magical
Proud Member
I'm actually delighted to see the Estate is listening to the fans and takes action to remove the songs from the setlist. I'm more than happy that they added Threatened, such an excellent song. I can live with $0.50's rap.
I don't know why they decided to include Monster and Breaking News in the first place, when there are so many great songs to choose from. They may have thought only a small fraction of the fanbase has issue with the songs. But, when the leaders of fan community expressed concerns and their twitters and facebook page are flooded with protests for song removal, they may realize that many fans still do not forget about the controversy and do not consider the songs fitting to carry Michael's name.
I'm glad our voices are heard finally.
I don't know why they decided to include Monster and Breaking News in the first place, when there are so many great songs to choose from. They may have thought only a small fraction of the fanbase has issue with the songs. But, when the leaders of fan community expressed concerns and their twitters and facebook page are flooded with protests for song removal, they may realize that many fans still do not forget about the controversy and do not consider the songs fitting to carry Michael's name.
I'm glad our voices are heard finally.
Sorry to rehash. Just started reading after a few days.
These are my thoughts:
The Pointer Sisters sound black to me. Tom Jones definitely sounds white as does the guy from UB40. However, I was shocked when I found out Bobby Caldwell was white. He sings "What you won't do for love". Shocked.
Michael never sounded black to me. I can't explain his voice. It was so unique. When I heard his voice as a young child, I didn't know what to expect. But an image of a white or black person was not prominent in my mind. I can understand when a person says that on some of the Cascio songs the person sounds white. But I don't get that on all of them.
As for who brought up the idea of the tracks being fake, remember that Teddy said that McCain from the Estate was contesting that the songs were fake From Teddy's context, it seems that this doubt was raised all the way back at the production stage. However, Teddy says this was raised once McCain found out they asked Teddy to do production on a song he had already done production on.
I wonder what changed his mind and convinced him that what he heard was actually MJ, unless he did just bring up authenticity out of spite (which I doubt because there are some serious authenticity issues). Or, unless he never changed his mind and he just decided to go with what the majority said??
Boy, there are so many people in the world that I would like to give some truth serum to.
These are my thoughts:
The Pointer Sisters sound black to me. Tom Jones definitely sounds white as does the guy from UB40. However, I was shocked when I found out Bobby Caldwell was white. He sings "What you won't do for love". Shocked.
Michael never sounded black to me. I can't explain his voice. It was so unique. When I heard his voice as a young child, I didn't know what to expect. But an image of a white or black person was not prominent in my mind. I can understand when a person says that on some of the Cascio songs the person sounds white. But I don't get that on all of them.
As for who brought up the idea of the tracks being fake, remember that Teddy said that McCain from the Estate was contesting that the songs were fake From Teddy's context, it seems that this doubt was raised all the way back at the production stage. However, Teddy says this was raised once McCain found out they asked Teddy to do production on a song he had already done production on.
I wonder what changed his mind and convinced him that what he heard was actually MJ, unless he did just bring up authenticity out of spite (which I doubt because there are some serious authenticity issues). Or, unless he never changed his mind and he just decided to go with what the majority said??
Boy, there are so many people in the world that I would like to give some truth serum to.
love is magical
Proud Member
I can certainly relate to the bold part. When I first heard of his voice as a 10-year old girl, I didn't have an image of a white or black person. I just knew Michael Jackson was an American. That's all I knew. The first song I heard him sang was Black or White. Michael's voice is just so unique. His voice is everything from blues, to rock to dance to funk. The Cascio tracks lack such versatile range miserably.
claudiadoina
Proud Member
When I was little I knew that Michael was an alien :scratch:Really.
dam2040
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?????
love is magical
Proud Member
Claudia, you are killing me with you new siggy... Air kiss from MJ... :wub: Isn't he drop dead gorgeous? :stars:
claudiadoina
Proud Member
What, you have problems with my english ?:aggressive:
Yes
so I was toldHe is, isn't he?Everytime after I post something I stare for minutes :gone_nuts: