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Wembley DVD Critique /Quality and other prefered concerts over Wembley go here

Michael had every concert recorded.. We cannot say for sure what the estate has, but footage is out there of basically everything.. Every concert was recorded
 
Re: Wembley DVD Critique /Quality - All discussion on the quality of Wembley DVD go here

I like the Wembley DVD...they did a good job!
Anything Michael is Good!
 
Re: The Spike Lee BAD 25 Documentary /DVD/ TV / Theater Release [Discussion]

Ummm, why did they show a HD recording of an APOM performance in Bad25 documentary? I thought the Estate couldn't find tapes from the Bad Tour that were in that quality? :unsure:
 
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Nonoka said:
Ummm, why did they show a HD recording of an APOM performance in Bad25 documentary? I thought the Estate couldn't find tapes from the Bad Tour that were in that quality? :unsure:
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they released a statement, and they said the fans want to have exactly this concert. nothing else.
and they said they have a lot other concerts in HD quality. but, as i said, fans want that so badly. ^^
i cant remember that we were asked about that. ^^
 
the wembley dvd was a joke. :no:
i dont know who the estate really asked to release exactly this one concert. but not me. they didnt asked the "fans".
who cares if they would use another day from wembley or different city. diana wasnt even shown during the concert.
 
mjchris said:
they released a statement, and they said the fans want to have exactly this concert. nothing else.
and they said they have a lot other concerts in HD quality. but, as i said, fans want that so badly. ^^
i cant remember that we were asked about that. ^^
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No.
They never said they have HD concerts. They said they have other u-matic tapes, but no high quality audio multitrack sources to remix.
If they had a full complete show on film, they would have done that instead of Wembley.
Fans wanted Wembley under the assumption a high quality copy existed (the DVD shows they do not have it on hand).
A lot of fans also wanted MSG too, so it doesn't really matter where the show was.
 
Hunterr said:
No.
They never said they have HD concerts. They said they have other u-matic tapes, but no high quality audio multitrack sources to remix.
If they had a full complete show on film, they would have done that instead of Wembley.
Fans wanted Wembley under the assumption a high quality copy existed (the DVD shows they do not have it on hand).
A lot of fans also wanted MSG too, so it doesn't really matter where the show was.
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yes, i have read that statement. but who cares about the sound? I'm sure the sound is good enough.
the video is much more important.
 
I hope the only reason why they choosed to release July 16 over July 15(better quality) wasn't that Diana was in the audience. Any filmed Bad Tour 2nd leg concert would be the best release ever!
 
I think the quality was good enough to be watchable. I don't understand why all the fans are conplaint. We have a great 2nd leg Bad Tour Concert in very good quality audio. I am very happy to see this 25 years after.
 
kokonuts5757 said:
I think the quality was good enough to be watchable. I don't understand why all the fans are conplaint. We have a great 2nd leg Bad Tour Concert in very good quality audio. I am very happy to see this 25 years after.
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We've waited so long for this. We could get a better one, because we deserve a better one, but instead no one knows when or whether will the Estate release the next Bad Tour 2nd leg concert in better quality.
 
HappyLeeHL said:
We've waited so long for this. We could get a better one, because we deserve a better one, but instead no one knows when or whether will the Estate release the next Bad Tour 2nd leg concert in better quality.
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The quality in de documentary of Spike Lee... Those are lying in the vaults.
 
Wembley 7/10 video & 10/10 audio or July 14th beta tape as seen in documentary, MSG or Minneoapolis 8-9/10 video & 7-7.5/10 audio... I know which I'd have preffered. as they could have used one of them High Quality shows but also released Wembley CD & DVD too. just my opinion.
 
just check the THE ONE DVD for those who have it and you'll see the excellent quality of the very short BAD Tour clips in there.
any other date from a U-Matic tape with decent 2.0 sound would have been so great (no store wants to show the DVD on big screens, especially when they know they can use Promotheus, A-Vengers or E.T on BluRay to help sell TV sets....).
 
Fans petitioned. We got what we wanted. Sure, not as glamorous as some may have wished for, but we still got it. Had Wembley not been released, fans would have been pissed at the Estate because they didn't choose it. Jeez, this isn't the Michael album! The Estate is doing their best, and fans still can't be happy with it.
 
I hate to say it but if they released a U-Matic with audio like Rome or Tokyo...it would have been a disaster. Listen to those concerts and tell me if that audio is appropriate for release...
 
AlwaysThere said:
Fans petitioned. We got what we wanted. Sure, not as glamorous as some may have wished for, but we still got it. Had Wembley not been released, fans would have been pissed at the Estate because they didn't choose it. Jeez, this isn't the Michael album! The Estate is doing their best, and fans still can't be happy with it.
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I enjoyed watching the DVD, but I can't say that I'm satisfied with the Estate's work. They are simply NOT doing their best. The video is poorly enhanced and the audio is poorly mixed.

I think one of the reasons that fans petitioned for Wembley is that they knew Wembley July 14th was especially filmed, and we could get a proper release. But instead, we got a Diana show with VHS footage and incomplete setlist.

And the Estate is hiding lots of things. They lied about the audio mixing work, and they won't tell us anything about Wembley July 15th show. They said they have lots of U-matics, but they won't give us a list of concerts they have except Yokohama. And we have to infer on our own about which concerts are filmed. So what I'm trying to say is, they should have done a much better job.
 
And what's all this petition talk?
There's been petitions for years, even when he was alive for a DVD release of this tour. They don't matter, tbh (otherwise we would have gotten a show years ago).
And even then, most fans wanted Wembley. I don't think the 16th was specifically what fans wanted.
 
Im curious .. Do other artists release lists of all their works available for potential release and let the fans choose what they want? It seems unlikey, and I havn't really heard of it happening, but please enlighten me if it does happen.
It seems to me like there is nothing that the estate could do would have pleased everyone. I think they tried though, out of all the Bad tour shows at Wembley, 16th probably was slightly more special than the rest with the royals being there (not that it really matters performance wise, but historicly it kind of does), and the drawback with this show was no TWYMMF, however they still included a performance of it from another night, along with IJCSLY and Bad from Yokohama which to me is excellent bonus material.
Many fans also didnt want a chopped up and over edited concert (like Bucharest 92), which the estate could have done with the amount of u-matics they said they had, however they went with a complete show like the fans wanted.
 
HappyLeeHL said:
We've waited so long for this. We could get a better one, because we deserve a better one, but instead no one knows when or whether will the Estate release the next Bad Tour 2nd leg concert in better quality.
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See, this is one of the reasons as to why I don't come on this site much anymore.

The fans do not deserve anything. What is the Estate at its core function designed to do? Make money off of Michael Jackson's name and music. They could easily achieve this with Greatest Hits collections, rarely venturing into unreleased territories. The fact that they're still trying with releases like this after this long is a blessing. Secondly, if the fans deserved a high-quality Bad Tour show, then why didn't Michael himself release a show? He had 21 years to do it himself but he chose not to, because he didn't want it to be seen by the masses outside of a live situation; it was within his perfectionist nature. But surely people remember this, and that it's the Estate being dealt a bad hand with the condition and quantity of archival material from this era. They're not the only ones whose archives from this time period are in disarray, or whose concert material has been compromised.

As for what's seen in Spike Lee's documentary, don't take any of that as an indication of a fully filmed concert; they're just outtakes from the Another Part of Me video integrated into the final cut. I'm surprised people are in shock and awe over something that has been known for decades. The only footage that has been seen in film at all from these shows was released in 1988 and 1989; nothing else since then.

And once again, I must stress the point that Michael had never intended to release ANY Bad Tour shows! And that he had 21 years to do so, but had chosen against it! In some ways, you could call releasing any Bad Tour show a betrayal to Michael's artistry and perfectionist nature, regardless of visual quality.

Umatic tapes degrade worse than VHS tapes do, and I believe that even more after watching the bonus features of the DVD. The Way You Make Me Feel actually looks worse than the VHS to me; there's a real lack of detail in some places, and it suffers from light bleeding and graininess just as the VHS does. People complain about these things without realising that - once again - these shows were never due to be released, so why would he take great strides to record this material in high-quality footage with concert film-quality cinematography? They were all destined to be watched by him so that he could improve his performance, so no-one would go to that much trouble unless he expressly wished for it, which he obviously didn't.

I've watched the DVD a couple of times recently, and having watched a lot of concerts from the 70s and 80s, it doesn't look that bad in comparison. Could it have been better? Possibly, but we don't know the condition of the tape, nor do we know the full condition of any of the other material, nor are we not entitled to know: it doesn't belong to us. We as fans are not owed anything by the Estate in the same way that Michael never owed us anything.
 
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Why it is so wrong to want Bad Tour concert in great quality? In my opinion Wembley dvd was amazing but I still want to see more Bad Tour concerts. :)

Jesta said:
As for what's seen in Spike Lee's documentary, don't take any of that as an indication of a fully filmed concert; they're just outtakes from the Another Part of Me video integrated into the final cut. I'm surprised people are in shock and awe over something that has been known for decades. The only footage that has been seen in film at all from these shows was released in 1988 and 1989; nothing else since then.
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http://icolorist.com/grading-michael-jackson/
 
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Galactus123 said:
Why it is so wrong to want Bad Tour concert in great quality? In my opinion Wembley dvd was amazing but I still want to see more Bad Tour concerts. :)



http://icolorist.com/grading-michael-jackson/
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Nothing is wrong with that, but to claim that we deserve X etc. is just not true. And besides, this is great quality for a VHS; certainly better than most of the VHS tapes I own, and it's certainly better quality than the July 15th Umatic, judging by The Way You Make Me Feel. Surely there must come a time when it's OK to say "Hey, we got a Bad Tour show in decent quality, and not at all like those videos on YouTube where people filmed the JumboTron! We finally have this awesome show!" rather than "I know what release I'd rather have: the so-so video with the poor audio than the the average video with the great audio"; it comes off as being too self-entitled to appreciate what has actually been released.

I've seen that URL brought up countless times, but no other person working on that tour has corroborated what Eagles has said. I'm more inclined to believe that he was mistaken; it was 23 years ago by that point, at least.

Besides, if by some luck that it is true, then I doubt enough still exists to make a concert film, especially considering what we know of the condition of the archives. A comprehensively shot concert of two hours takes up about 25 miles of film. That's 25 miles of unedited film reels effectively showing a concert at least 10 times from different angles, give or take. If they weren't archived properly, any amount of those reels could have gone missing. If a large amount have (which is what I personally believe if that story is to be believed), then a concert film release would be impossible.
 
Call it selfish or what ever you want. We do deserve it better.
without us Michael jackson would have been long time "yesterdays melodie". we stood by him all these years, where others would have been left, considering the tribulations and situations he have been into. not once, but twice he was in situation, that others would have lost big proportion of their fanbase. the general public branded him and for them he was what he was accused of. he did lost some fans in those times, but also won new.
And now when is dead, we still keep this community alive. cause after his death this community could have fall apart, like many other fan sites and boards did.

And that the estate released this isn't a bless. they just know very well that they can't milk these GH anymore, especially since the last 10 years there were plenty of them.
And plase, stop with this "Michael never wanted to the public to see this shows". thats total BS to me. why not? whats so special about the Bad tour? nothing!
he just got in the hair with sony in the middle of the 90s. he just didn't want sony to profit from that. if he got an offer for Bad tour as for Dangerous and History tours, he would have release this. why you think they got released on tv?
 
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I think the reason why Michael wanted few concerts in DVD is that he wanted the fans to see him live more. At lease Wikipedia is with that opinion. And now he's passed away, that reason's gone, too.

Watching this wembley show is like he's back again, don't you feel the same? Although he's always alive in our hearts, we do need fresh materials to remind it at all times, such like unreleased songs and concerts. And you said fans do not deserve anything, I can hardly agree with you on that point.

After all, many successful artists like Queen and The Beatles have several concerts in great quality, so why not Michael, the King of Pop? Should his awesomeness just be left hiding in the vault of the Estate forever?
 
TWYMMF was better quality. WHY? Because it is a higher standard tape. Also TWYMMF was unedited/not enhanced so for what its worth I disagree with those who claim "its just as bad as the VHS" LOL....
 
People might want better and more stuff however they also need to be realistic.

For example just on the last page you see a complaint that Estate hasn't told us a list of what they had and didn't allow us to choose. Sorry to say but that's just not realistic at all. No artist or Estate or Business would do such thing.

Similarly we see that colorist blog brought up a million time. Yes there might have been film 25 years ago but neither the colorist nor the Estate know where it is now. So it's kinda pointless to ask for something that no one even knows if it still exists someplace.

It's better if people are approaching this realistically and in today's conditions.
 
ivy said:
Yes there might have been film 25 years ago but neither the colorist nor the Estate know where it is now. So it's kinda pointless to ask for something that no one even knows if it still exists someplace.
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But did The Estate tell us that they were trying to look for them? I can understand that those film reels, master tapes and U-matics had been sent to some archives 25 years ago and not necessairly all to the same one. But the question is how much effort did they put in researches? Or did they just found this MJ's VHS tape with Wembley and not being sure that they will find any other Wembley show on film, they decided to restore July 16th and release it. Also it's a shame that having an U-matic tape and multi tracks from July 15, they released a LQ VHS copy. I'm sorry to say that but it's true. A properly restored U-matic tape would look really good comparing to the VHS and would much better fit the DVD releases standards.

ivy said:
For example just on the last page you see a complaint that Estate hasn't told us a list of what they had and didn't allow us to choose. Sorry to say but that's just not realistic at all. No artist or Estate or Business would do such thing.
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Nobody complains about it. This was just an idea how can we fairly assess and get to know what The Estate has. But to be honest, I believe they don't know what they really has for themselves and that's sad...


Another thing that makes me think is that how it's possible that The Estate could not find any footage (not metnioning the film reels) while Spike Lee got them just like that? How is that possible that numerous Another Part Of Me and Man In The Mirror performances could be founud so easily while finding the conert tapes is so hard?
 
mjchris said:
yes, i have read that statement. but who cares about the sound? I'm sure the sound is good enough.
the video is much more important.
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I agree, or if anything they could of just made the Wembley CD and release that with a different video concert so we have good quality video and a great quality audio CD, but maybe they should of made the CD 2 CD's since Wembley won't fit on one, but they should of done this.
 
SmoothC21HD said:
But did The Estate tell us that they were trying to look for them?
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Simple answer to this question : Their second accounting shows that for the last year they have spent close to 1 Million dollars in an archiving job , you also have Matt Forger talking about the archiving process and how they found the songs and so on.

So to answer to your question they have been archiving everything for the last year. This is not just a "oh we found a vhs stop looking".

How is that possible that numerous Another Part Of Me and Man In The Mirror performances could be founud so easily while finding the conert tapes is so hard?
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Those were used at Moonwalker so whomever did those could have hold on to the not used footage. That's not the case of any full concert. For example from the colorist we know that there were film however we don't know what happened to them. How can you be sure that for example Michael told people to destroy any film 25 years ago?
 
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