[Discussion] Sexual Abuse Claims Against MJ Estate - Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe

[Pimboli]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

^^The settlement was less than 20. Closer to 16; I can't remember the exact amount but I think it was 15 and change. Someone here will know the exact amount. Also, the settlement was not for molestation but for negligence, which is something no one mentions.?

that was what i was trying to say :lol: People think that Michael paid Chandler $20mill (or more) to make the molestation claims go away, AND they see the settlement as a tell-tale sign that he admitted guilt of molestation. No media (as far as i know) has bothered to mention that the settlement was for negligence only, and that Michael never admitted any wrong-doing. Not to mention the fact, that that settlement was forced down his throat.
A good thing that may come out of a possible trial is that Mez (or whoever will handle it) may be able to bring in the weasels of the past and thus finally bring justice to Michael....?

 

[bouee]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

The estate will know what to do and if they can win.
Civil cases do not have to be proved beyond a reasonal doubt like criminal trials. So just a suspicion of guilt can prevail .. Estate will know what is best because all the sorded details from Wade can cause great harm even if they win. Shutting him up with a settlement and gag order .. so he can no longer discuss it to the media may be an option. because if there is no gag he can continue even if he wins or looses ... there are many things to consider .. I think the Estate will have a good defense to the charges based on all the facts and evidence we know so far. but .. they have to decide what is best for Michael's legacy .. Yes i realise how the 93 case settlement cause suspicion but just saying .. what the reality is ..

I think a setllement will leak, even with a gag order. So, no, no setllement, otherwise it could go on for ever.
If such a theory "I remember everything but I was unwilling and unable to understand" flies, can you imagine what else could ?

If Wade goes to the media with his story, I'm not sure about the sealing request. Filing under seal could just be a 1rst step of a strategy. As someone else said, in his interviews he sounds like he's threatening the Estate to speak furher publicly. I would not be surprised that if things don't work out as he planned, he could go back to the media, and get the claims unseald, one way or another, for all the disgunsting details to come out.

But maybe the Estate could take the opportunity to ask for a gag order on June 6th and 13th. That would be a good idea.

 

[claudiadoina]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

That alone just sounds ridiclous and too funny how the heck could he not know it was wrong at the age of 22 or whatever age he was at the 2005 trial??? he was a grown man for crying out loud!!! :lol:

that was why that criminal trial was happening cuz mj accused of child molestation itys no rocket science to figure out what trial was bout, seriously wade would have to be the dumbest person on the planet

Exactly..I had a creepy older uncle when I was 10-12 years old or so and he would use to pinch our a**es (mine and my sister's who was 2 years younger ) and I knew right then exactly how wrong and very inappropriate that was and felt very uncomfortable and I would avoid him or being alone with him....and that was minor comparing with the atrocity WR is claiming....

 

[Pimboli]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

How can you not understand what a hand down your pants is? (or whatever he's claiming). How can you not know that it's wrong? Especially as a grown up. I can understand that a child may not have the insight to get it, but a 22 year old? You seriously want me to believe that he wasnt able to put 2 and 2 together and realize that a grown man fondling you or making you fondle him is wrong? How stupid do i look?
AND even if he really didnt understand it, what prevented him from answering "yes" to Zonen's repeated "did he ever touch you" questions. All he'd have to say was "well, yes now that you mention it, he DID touch me here and there". You can answer that even though you may not realize that the touching is inappropriate.

 

[HIStory]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

it's my understanding that the settlement was done behind Michael's back? He wanted to defend himself in court, but his advisors talked him out of that by telling him "you do not know what a jury will do" (or however he phrased it in the diane sawyer interview).
People also need to understand that it was not MICHAEL who paid Jordan those 20mill - it was his insurance company. And in the settlement doc Michael is saying that he's NOT guilty of the charges. Technically Michael never paid Chandler a dime.

I have put an article about the Settlement to this thread: http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/t...inst-Michael?p=3826420&viewfull=1#post3826420

 

[Diplomate]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

There is no need for a settlement! Mike was innocent, it's Rob$on who should pay for his lies in 2013.
The Estate gonna destroy this moron.

 

[shelly_webster]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Wade was supposed to work on One?

http://www.squidoo.com/Wade_Robson

 

[Aquarius]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Plus a settlement could open the floodgates for other opportunists to try their luck. It will never end. Michael should not have settled the first time and then there would be no Francia and no Arvizo and no Robson allegations.

Exactly. If the estate settles that's what is going to happen. More people would come out claiming stupid stories. It's not enough to remove the leaves of a rotten plant, you have to destroy the root.

 

[shades]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

That alone just sounds ridiclous and too funny how the heck could he not know it was wrong at the age of 22 or whatever age he was at the 2005 trial??? he was a grown man for crying out loud!!! :lol:

that was why that criminal trial was happening cuz mj accused of child molestation itys no rocket science to figure out what trial was bout, seriously wade would have to be the dumbest person on the planet

Doesn't anyone else think it is odd that all these new "allegations" are coming out, while AEG is entangled in a courtcase? Is this corporation rearing its ugly head and showing its true colours? I think that only AEG can gain from these "allegations". It will help their case that MJ was secretive and no one knew about his private life. The timing of all this, to say the least, suspicious...

 

[Big Apple2]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Doesn't anyone else think it is odd that all these new "allegations" are coming out, while AEG is entangled in a courtcase? Is this corporation rearing its ugly head and showing its true colours? I think that only AEG can gain from these "allegations". It will help their case that MJ was secretive and no one knew about his private life. The timing of all this, to say the least, suspicious...

It could ALSO be Robson's payback for not getting the opportunity to be director of the MJ-inspired Cirque show.

It's very clear that ole boy wanted that job pretty badly. So much so, that he was actually giving interviews speaking as if the gig was in fact already his. I would have to say that a gig like that could have been the pinnacle of his career. Not to mention the HUGE payday he missed out on when the gig was given to Jamie King instead. (In little Richard's voice, I can hear Wade saying "I was robbed!")

In my opinion, Wade Robson is PISSED he didn't get that job. After BRAGGING about it to anybody who would listen to him.

 

[Pimboli]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Doesn't anyone else think it is odd that all these new "allegations" are coming out, while AEG is entangled in a courtcase? Is this corporation rearing its ugly head and showing its true colours? I think that only AEG can gain from these "allegations". It will help their case that MJ was secretive and no one knew about his private life. The timing of all this, to say the least, suspicious...

i think it's even more suspicious that Wade's claim is coming out now that the Estate is making money big time. There have been good reports on the financial status recently, Cirque is doing well, and we have One opening soon. One has to wonder why he wasn't first in line with his claim in 09 when the possibility for a creditor's claim opened. But i supposed he "didnt remember yet" - (and MJ was in debt big time back then, so i wasn't lucrative to make a cred claim against debt, i suppose)

 

[la_cienega]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

that was what i was trying to say :lol: People think that Michael paid Chandler $20mill (or more) to make the molestation claims go away, AND they see the settlement as a tell-tale sign that he admitted guilt of molestation. No media (as far as i know) has bothered to mention that the settlement was for negligence only, and that Michael never admitted any wrong-doing. Not to mention the fact, that that settlement was forced down his throat.
A good thing that may come out of a possible trial is that Mez (or whoever will handle it) may be able to bring in the weasels of the past and thus finally bring justice to Michael....?

Why would MJ let his insurance settle with the Chandler's but pay nothing to Wade Robson?

Why pay hush money to one person but not someone you've molested for 7 years?

How can you not understand what a hand down your pants is? (or whatever he's claiming). How can you not know that it's wrong? Especially as a grown up. I can understand that a child may not have the insight to get it, but a 22 year old? You seriously want me to believe that he wasnt able to put 2 and 2 together and realize that a grown man fondling you or making you fondle him is wrong? How stupid do i look?

Especially during a trial involving the sexual molestation of other boys!

Unlike most abuse victims he was also surrounded by triggers of this abuse everywhere he went, while it was happening and until the abuser died and after, in the most public ways possible. He couldn't escape it. The idea he only just reacted to it last year but not during 1993, 2003-2005 or 2009 truly reveals some staggering self control.

 

[Pimboli]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Why would MJ let his insurance settle with the Chandler's but pay nothing to Wade Robson?

Why pay hush money to one person but not someone you've molested for 7 years?

you gotta ask MJ's lawyers from 1993 that question

 

[shelly_webster]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Why would MJ let his insurance settle with the Chandler's but pay nothing to Wade Robson?

Why pay hush money to one person but not someone you've molested for 7 years?


Especially during a trial involving the sexual molestation of other boys!

Unlike most abuse victims he was also surrounded by triggers of this abuse everywhere he went, while it was happening and until the abuser died and after, in the most public ways possible. He couldn't escape it. The idea he only just reacted to it last year but not during 1993, 2003-2005 or 2009 truly reveals some staggering self control.

Because the Robsons never filed a civil suit until now. Wade never made an allegations until now.

PS: I don't believe MJ molested Wade or any kids.

 

[la_cienega]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Because the Robsons never filed a civil suit until now. Wade never made an allegations until now.

PS: I don't believe MJ molested Wade or any kids.

I know, but if he was afraid of them, why wouldn't he try and secure their silence earlier?

When they obviously can be bought.

One of the long standing myths about these kids is MJ paid them all off, but now it's just Jordan he paid off, Wade has blown that myth out of the water.

 

[shelly_webster]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I know, but if he was afraid of them, why wouldn't he try and secure their silence earlier?

When they obviously can be bought.

One of the long standing myths about these kids is MJ paid them all off, but now it's just Jordan he paid off, Wade has blown that myth out of the water.

I believe the biggest question is why did he call Wade to testify in 2005 if he molested him. How can you be so sure of your brain washing technic?

 

[MJelboo]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Exactly. Why in the world would MJ ask a kid to testify, knowing that he apparently MOLESTED HIM for 7 years? No way in hell that he would ever do that. Ridiculous.

 

[sharon007]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

if AEG is beind this how could it effect the trial?

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Common sense and logic goes out of the window when it comes to lynching mj

the insurance settled chandler over mjs head according to mez

 

[Big Apple2]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I believe the biggest question is why did he call Wade to testify in 2005 if he molested him. How can you be so sure of your brain washing technic?

Exactly!

Aside from the fact, that NOBODY can predict how cross-examination will go. In my opinion, CROSS-EXAMINATION is the key to any court proceeding. You just never know what will happen and/or what you will be asked. There is no real way to prepare for it, because the object is to TRICK you, causing you to slip up.

We all know that Ron Zonen when HARD when Wade was on the witness stand, but Wade held his own. And didn't have to "plead the fifth," like he did the other day during an interview.

P.S. I still can't believe son did that. LOL! Who goes to a televised interview and plead's the fifth. Oh sorry, I guess Wade does.

(Somebody needs to post that joint, if it's available.)

 

[LindavG]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Common sense and logic goes out of the window when it comes to lynching mj

the insurance settled chandler over mjs head according to mez

I don't understand why MJ never said this when he was asked about the settlement. Instead of defending why he settled back in 1993, he could've just explained that he didn't want to but he had no choice, and emphasised that it was the insurance company who paid, not him.

Michael does bear some responsibility for the public perception of him. He could have made things a lot easier for himself if he was open about his Vitiligo from the start, if he was honest about his plastic surgery and if he chose his words regarding his love for children more carefully. If you're going on national television and say "What's wrong with sharing your bed with children? The most loving thing to do is to share your bed with someone" you can expect people to misinterpret this. It just doesn't sound right and it's one thing people who believe he was a pedophile keep coming back to.

 

[bouee]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Exactly!


We all know that Ron Zonen when HARD when Wade was on the witness stand, but Wade held his own. And didn't have to "plead the fifth," like he did the other day during an interview.

P.S. I still can't believe son did that. LOL! Who goes to a televised interview and plead's the fifth. Oh sorry, I guess Wade does.

(Somebody needs to post that joint, if it's available.)

that made LOL too ! But i think it meant that he wouldn't answer certain questions (I haven't seen the interview though)

 

[bouee]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I don't understand why MJ never said this when he was asked about the settlement. Instead of defending why he settled back in 1993, he could've just explained that he didn't want to but he had no choice, and emphasised that it was the insurance company who paid, not him.
.

he always said his lawyers adised him to settle. Personnally, I never felt it was really his decision, he followed his lawyer's advice, as most of us would, if we are not lawyers ourselves.

 

[ivy]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Doesn't anyone else think it is odd that all these new "allegations" are coming out, while AEG is entangled in a courtcase? Is this corporation rearing its ugly head and showing its true colours? I think that only AEG can gain from these "allegations". It will help their case that MJ was secretive and no one knew about his private life. The timing of all this, to say the least, suspicious...

if AEG is beind this how could it effect the trial?

I replied this on the discussion thread but I'll reply here again.

As far as the AEG trial goes, I don't think this new allegations bring anything to AEG. Why you will ask?

- Jury is sworn in, they should not be paying attention to the media
- These allegations should not be a factor in trial unless they are introduced as evidence - but there are no attempts to do so
- Actual accusations, number of them etc. is irrelevant to AEG defense. They only wanted to mention the allegations to argue they affected Michael's income capacity and as a reason for Michael's drug use. They have everything they need with 93 and 05 allegations.

I would agree that the new Wade Robson allegations is a distraction - but mainly for the fans and not necessarily for the public. In my opinion public do not care for either the lawsuit or the allegations. There have been a number of stories about the allegations but it would slow down - and looks like already did. AEG trial is estimated to take 4 to 5 months, Wade's allegations would not get that much media time. So in my opinion at best from AEG's perspective the allegations were a short term distraction.

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I wonder if Michael knew about the closeness of Johnnie C and Larry Feildman? I heard some years ago when Michael found out Larry was repping Johnnie he was pissed

 

[Big Apple2]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

that made LOL too ! But i think it meant that he wouldn't answer certain questions (I haven't seen the interview though)

I haven't seen that particular interview either, but I sure would like to.

And if he knows in advance that he can't OR WON'T be answering certain questions, then why bother going on television in the first place. In my opinion, his entire approach has been misguided and full of holes.

Although I didn't see this interview, I believe this interviewer was tougher on Wade then Matt Lauer was and Mr. Wade wasn't prepared for it.

Shoot, if you are big and bad enough to go on television with your bogus claims then you should be able to withstand the heat that comes with it, in my opinion. Not everybody is going to treat him with kit-gloves and his behind should be prepared for that.

 

[shelly_webster]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I replied this on the discussion thread but I'll reply here again.

As far as the AEG trial goes, I don't think this new allegations bring anything to AEG. Why you will ask?

- Jury is sworn in, they should not be paying attention to the media
- These allegations should not be a factor in trial unless they are introduced as evidence - but there are no attempts to do so
- Actual accusations, number of them etc. is irrelevant to AEG defense. They only wanted to mention the allegations to argue they affected Michael's income capacity and as a reason for Michael's drug use. They have everything they need with 93 and 05 allegations.

I would agree that the new Wade Robson allegations is a distraction - but mainly for the fans and not necessarily for the public. In my opinion public do not care for either the lawsuit or the allegations. There have been a number of stories about the allegations but it would slow down - and looks like already did. AEG trial is estimated to take 4 to 5 months, Wade's allegations would not get that much media time. So in my opinion at best from AEG's perspective the allegations were a short term distraction.

Could he choose his own witness for the 2005 trial or is it something decided only by his lawyers. I know it seems a stupid question but I'm really trying to understand why he chose wade if what wade claims is true.

 

[LindavG]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

he always said his lawyers adised him to settle. Personnally, I never felt it was really his decision, he followed his lawyer's advice, as most of us would, if we are not lawyers ourselves.

Yes, but he never once mentioned that he did not agree with the settlement or the role his insurance company played in all this. Most people are not even aware that the settlement is not about child molestation and that Michael never paid a dime himself. It's hard for fans to argue that Michael did not want to settle when he publicly defended the settlement in interviews. IIRC, the settlement document itself mentions the fact that Michael did not consent to it, and the people who were around him at the time were shocked to find out he had settled because Michael insisted that he wouldn't do that. On the other hand, I don't quite understand how the settlement would've been valid without Michael's signature, and if he signed it that means he did consent to it, right?

 

[ivy]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Could he choose his own witness for the 2005 trial or is it something decided only by his lawyers. I know it seems a stupid question but I'm really trying to understand why he chose wade if what wade claims is true.

Lawyers do but they make the decisions based on depositions and they listen to their client.

 

[bouee]

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Yes, but he never once mentioned that he did not agree with the settlement or the role his insurance company played in all this. Most people are not even aware that the settlement is not about child molestation and that Michael never paid a dime himself. It's hard for fans to argue that Michael did not want to settle when he publicly defended the settlement in interviews. IIRC, the settlement document itself mentions the fact that Michael did not consent to it, and the people who were around him at the time were shocked to find out he had settled because Michael insisted that he wouldn't do that. On the other hand, I don't quite understand how the settlement would've been valid without Michael's signature, and if he signed it that means he did consent to it, right?

Yes , he consented to it, but IMO, as I felt it at the time, he felt he had no choice, because his lawyers told him there was a risk.
About the details of the settlement, the settlement is about confidentiality, so he was not supposed to talk about it at all.

I think you have to understand the american legal system to understand it. I don't know about the Netherlands , but here in France, it would sound absolutely crazy to pay for something you haven't done.

Important points for me about the settlement :

- civil trial would have happened before a criminal trial, harming Michael's defense for a criminal trial, giving "weapons" to the prosecution, since they would have known his defense. The fact that a civil trial can happen before a criminal trial is beyond illogical, it would not have happened in many countries, and it was corrected in the mid 90s, partly because of the allegations. In 2005 it was not possible anymore : the Arvisos had to go through a criminal trial first.

- settlement was signed before the grand jurys were done. The settlement was filed with the court : no way Michael could have pressured Jordan into not testifying, it was illegal, Jordan could have promised to shut up, sign the settlement, and go testify in front of those grand juries. The Chandlers never intended to go to a criminal trial. It was THEIR decision, Michael could not have influenced them.

- both grand juries did not file charges. Meaning the prosecution had NOTHING to even create a doubt, NOTHING that could have convinced the jurors that a trial was needed, at least to decide if Michael was guilty or not. The people who doubt Michael need to understand that the grand juries were not there to convict Michael, they were only asked if there was enough to go to trial or not. If things had not been clear for them, all they had to do was to send Michael to trial. Then other jurors would have decided if Michael was guilty or not.

In hindsight, i wish they had. A criminal trial was the only way for him to clear things up.