[Discussion] Sexual Abuse Claims Against MJ Estate - Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe

[Kingofpop4ever3000]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

If MJ wanted to pay them , he would have done so in June of 1993, way before anyone heard about any molestation. If the Chandlers were interested in justice, they would have corroborated with the police. Jordan Chandler was very willing to testify in a civil trial but no interest in a criminal one. That says alot about them . Even in 2005, they refused to come forward, the father, the son and the uncle.

Yes. And nothing would have stopped them from coming to criminal court and testifying if they were really telling the truth. Why is it that they would only testify in a civil trial if they were so interested in getting "justice"? People still love to put Michael on the hot seat because of the settlement. But it's not right to me that the Chandlers, (and especially Jordan and Evan), get a pass for not dealing with Michael in criminal court since a lot of people think they were being honest when this mess got started. Wade and James are doing the same thing as the Chandlers, in my opinion. It's disgusting.

 

[HIStory]

Yes. And nothing would have stopped them from coming to criminal court and testifying if they were really telling the truth. Why is it that they would only testify in a civil trial if they were so interested in getting "justice"? People still love to put Michael on the hot seat because of the settlement. But it's not right to me that the Chandlers, (and especially Jordan and Evan), get a pass for not dealing with Michael in criminal court since a lot of people think they were being honest when this mess got started.

Exactly. No one ever asks why would the Chandlers want money instead of justice if Jordan was truly molested? And it's not just about them. We are talking about child molestation here and child molesters will commit that crime over and over again if they are not put in jail. So there is also such a responsibility for the Chandlers there if someone wants to believe these allegations, yet no one ever questions them. It's always: "Why would MJ settle if he's innocent?" never "Why would the Chandlers go for the money instead of justice if MJ really did this?" And like said even with the settlement they could have also gone for the criminal trial. The Chandlers give some BS reasoning about publicity and crazy MJ fans, but that's just BS considering they didn't have a problem with publicity and crazy MJ fans when they published a book or otherwise went to the media:

While Jackson’s motives for the settlement are often questioned, it’s a much less frequently asked question (although it would be similarly valid to ask): why did the accuser’s family settle? Had your child been molested would you want justice or money? The Chandlers themselves claim they settled because they wanted to move on with their lives and not subject Jordan to media spotlight and scrutiny that would have been unavoidable in a high profile case and trial such as this. They also claimed they received several death threats from Michael Jackson fans and since Los Angeles District Attorney, Gil Garcetti refused to put the family to the Witness Protection Program, they were afraid for their lives. At first this seems reasonable, however Evan Chandler did not seem to be concerned about media spotlight and possible fan reaction when in his taped phone conversation with David Schwartz (the boy’s step father) in July, 1993 (BEFORE his son allegedly “confessed” to him!) he said of his attorney, Barry Rothman:

“[T]his attorney I found… I mean, I interviewed several, and I picked the nastiest son of a bitch I could find, and all he wants to do is get this out in the public as fast as he can, as big as he can and humiliate as many people as he can, and he’s got a bad [tape irregularity]…[5]”​

Ray Chandler tries to excuse this quote in his book by claiming that when Evan said Rothman wanted to “get this out in the public as fast as he can, as big as he can” he actually meant going to court, not to the media. The same claim is made about when on the same tapes Evan says of Rothman:

“He is nasty, he is mean, he is very smart [tape irregularity], and he’s hungry for the publicity [tape irregularity] better for him. [5]”​

However, there are some additional facts to consider regarding the Chandler’s intentions with publicity. The Chandlers did not seem to be concerned about media spotlight, possible fan reaction, threats and Jordan not being able to move on with his life when when within days after the settlement they were shopping a book they have written about the allegations. Publisher Judith Regan:

“I received a call from Jordan’s uncle. He wanted to do a book in which he would describe in detail the allegation of molestation against Michael Jackson. So I asked him how he proposed to do this given the fact that the Chandlers had actually signed a confidentiality agreement and taken $20mln. And he said that Jordan’s father had given him all the information he needed for the book and he believed he was outside the bounds of the Confidentiality agreement because he would be the author. At the time I had the impression that the Chandlers were brazen opportunists and I found the entire proposal by the uncle to be distasteful. They enter a Confidentiality agreement and before the ink is even dry they are shopping a deal that violates this agreement?”[6]​

That Ray Chandler was indeed shopping a book “within days” after the settlement was signed, is confirmed by none other than Ray Chandler himself in a Motion he filed with the Santa Barbara Court on October 25, 2004. [More about why this Motion was filed in our article entitled Ray Chandler's Subpoena in 2004.]In support of his argument that he should be protected by the Shield Law Ray Chandler disclosed in that Motion ([7]; page 8):

“Within days after Jordan Chandler’s civil lawsuit against Michael Jackson was settled in January, 1994, Raymond Chandler traveled to New York City to seek a publisher for the purpose of putting the information he had gathered in the form of a non-fiction book for dissemination to the public. Such intent on the part of Raymond Chandler is evidenced by an article that appeared in the New York Post revealing his contact with a publisher one day after it occurred.” [7]​

Ray Chandler, in making his claim that he should be protected by the Shield Law states in the Motion that he traveled to Los Angeles “within two days after the Michael Jackson child molestation scandal became public in August of 1993″ ([7]; page 8) and from late August through December of 1993 lived in the Los Angeles home of Evan and Jordan Chandler with the intent of gathering information about the molestation allegations and then publicly disseminating that information ([7]; page 13). Ray Chandler eventually published his book in 2004 at the height of the media frenzy caused by the Arvizo allegations. Ray Chandler made his rounds in the media, giving interviews and appearing in documentaries heavily biased against Jackson. Obiously not concerned about media spotlight and not afraid of possible threats by Jackson fans. Evan Chandler did not seem to be concerned about media spotlight, possible fan reaction, threats and Jordan not being able to move on with his life when he filed another lawsuit against Michael Jackson in 1996, this time for $60 million and a record deal so that he could release an album about the alleged sexual molestation of his son, titled “EVANstory” . According to the lawsuit “This album will include such songs as: “D.A. Reprised”: “You Have No Defense (For My Love)”; “Duck Butter Blues”; “Truth”; and other songs”. [8] The lawsuit got thrown out of Court in 2000.

 

[MattyJam]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

And like said even with the settlement they could have also gone for the criminal trial.

Do we know this for a fact? Could there have been an agreement in the settlement which prevented Jordy from taking the stand in the criminal trial? This is what that hater was insinuating to me on that other forum, and I didn't really have an answer for that.

 

[MJresearcher]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I suggest that fans quit using this argument about the insurance company settling despite of Michael's protest though! That's a very weak argument that haters can easily tear apart. Especially since Mez said a couple of months ago in a radio interview that it's not true. But also Michael said on Diane Sawyer that he wanted to settle and there is even a letter in which Johnnie Coachran tries to get the insurance company pay which is reluctant. There is no such a thing that an insurance company would settle despite of its clients protest. That is nonsense!

So did the Defense lie in this motion? Well, if you read the signature on this motion this was written by Brian Oxman, not Mesereau. Oxman is not a very good lawyer IMO and I think he messed up here. I'm glad he was not Michael's main defense lawyer because this is just nonsense...

I have seen fans and haters bitterly fight each other over this argument about the insurance company as if this is so significant. It's not. Who paid what does not make him either guilty or innocent. The whole thing about if he paid then he's guilty, if the insurance did then he's innocent thing is a fallacy.

Michael's reasons to settle are understandable from this article: http://michaeljacksonallegations.com/the-settlement/
No need to bring in this whole desperate sounding insurance argument which can be easily refuted by haters and then fans end up looking like fools.

Thanks for the correction, I don't want to be giving the wrong information here. I'll remove the screenshots about that. I sure hope Oxman is a better lawyer now than what he was then! Jordan's description not matching, Evan's manipulation, clear motive for money etc are much better arguments anyway. I'm both surprised and disappointed that Oxman screwed that up so badly. It doesn't help that I thought he was reliable either, sorry about that.

 

[HIStory]

Do we know this for a fact? Could there have been an agreement in the settlement which prevented Jordy from taking the stand in the criminal trial? This is what that hater was insinuating to me on that other forum, and I didn't really have an answer for that.

No. The law does not allow anyone to settle criminal trials. Here is the settlement as it was leaked in 2003 (the part that is redacted was edited out by Dimond):

http://michaeljacksonallegations.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/1993civilsettlementagreement.pdf

There is no such thing in it that prevents Jordan from testifying - and cannot even be, since that is forbidden by law.

Note how it's explicitly stated that the settlement is not an admission of guilt on MJ's part:

“This Confidential Settlement shall not be considered as an admission by Jackson that he has acted wrongfully with respect to the Minor, [blocked] or [blocked], or any other person or at all, or that the Minor, [blocked] or [blocked] have any rights whatsoever against Jackson. Jackson specifically disclaims any liability to, and denies any wrongful act against, the Minor, [blocked] or [blocked] or any other persons. The Parties acknowledge that Jackson is a public figure and that his name, image and likeness have commercial value and are an important element of his earning capacity. The Parties acknowledge that Jackson claims that he has elected to settle the claims in the Action in view of the impact the Action has had and could have in the future on his earnings and potential income.”

Also on page 6:

"The Parties recognize that the Settlement Payment set forth in this paragraph 3 are in settlement of claims by [blocked], [blocked] and [blocked] (presumably Jordan, Evan and June Chandler) for alleged compensatory damages for alleged personal injuries arising out of claims of negligence and not for claims of intentional or wrongful acts of sexual molestation."

Now, imagine if you are the parent of a molested child, would you sign such an agreement for money in which the alleged abuser specifically declares that he denies any wrongful act? Wouldn't you want him to be punished and also to face what he did?

 

[MJresearcher]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Do we know this for a fact? Could there have been an agreement in the settlement which prevented Jordy from taking the stand in the criminal trial? This is what that hater was insinuating to me on that other forum, and I didn't really have an answer for that.

That would be seen as obstruction of justice, and that is never legal.

 

[Electric_Mayweather]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

It's interesting to note that a law was implemented within this case so that Sneddon was able to bring past incidences of possible molestation into the trial with witnesses and all. TMez was happy with that as he had witnesses lined up ready to expose the Chandler lie when he hit the stand. Unfortunately Jordan was able to avoid being subpoenaed.

 

[xosweetseducingsighsxo]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

No. The law does not allow anyone to settle criminal trials. Here is the settlement as it was leaked in 2003 (the part that is redacted was edited out by Dimond):

http://michaeljacksonallegations.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/1993civilsettlementagreement.pdf

There is no such thing in it that prevents Jordan from testifying - and cannot even be, since that is forbidden by law.

Note how it's explicitly stated that the settlement is not an admission of guilt on MJ's part:



Also on page 6:



Now, imagine if you are the parent of a molested child, would you sign such an agreement for money in which the alleged abuser specifically declares that he denies any wrongful act? Wouldn't you want him to be punished and also to face what he did?

For the bolded part: Now I've seen fans argue with a hater and bring that up. -_- The hater comes up with some stupid excuse to try and make it seem like the Chandlers did that to get away from the fans. Like what the hell could we do to them? See, if that was me and I knew I was telling the truth I wouldn't have signed it, but you know..those people make themselves so obvious that they're lying. Only sad thing is that the public is full of idiots that believe anything a tabloid says, and anything an idiot like Diane Dimond says. This is exactly why if I ever have children I'm gonna teach them common sense myself. This world will lead them into stupidity.

 

[Soundmind]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

But why were not they afraid of fans when they sued MJ for the second time in 1996 for History album? They were involved in litigation with him for a very long time after the settlement.

What did the fans do to Gavin ? to June herself? to any of the ex employees?

If you feel strong about the man who molested your kid and you should feel strong, would not making sure he spends what is left of his life behind bars a priority?

When Jordan said he won't testify as he "did my part", what exactly was his part ? receiving a settlement in millions for apparently no obvious damage per his own family's admission , while other kids are still supposedly at risk of being molested?

Is this how a victim react ?

You want my opinion for why Sneddon did not force him to come? He was not sure Jordan was going to testify in their support, He had no idea what he was going to say if he was forced to testify, it was too much of a risk for him.

 

[Justthefacts]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Sneedon had to know that classmates of Jordan had told Mez Jordan had said he was never abused. And that is the real reason why IMO he did not press it

 

[HIStory]

For the bolded part: Now I've seen fans argue with a hater and bring that up. -_- The hater comes up with some stupid excuse to try and make it seem like the Chandlers did that to get away from the fans. Like what the hell could we do to them? See, if that was me and I knew I was telling the truth I wouldn't have signed it, but you know..those people make themselves so obvious that they're lying. Only sad thing is that the public is full of idiots that believe anything a tabloid says, and anything an idiot like Diane Dimond says. This is exactly why if I ever have children I'm gonna teach them common sense myself. This world will lead them into stupidity.

But the Chandlers were not afraid of MJ fans when they were shopping a book almost immediately after the settlement. And when they eventually published said book in 2004. They were not afraid of fans when Ray Chandler was doing his media rounds. Or - like Soundmind mentioned - they weren't afraid of fans when they filed another multi-million dollar lawsuit against MJ in 1996.

Funny, how according to the Chandler's own book by mid-October 1993 (the case still in full gear) Jordan could carelessly run around in the neighborhood... it doesn't seem to me that anyone bothered him. Even before that it was the media who bothered them, not fans:

“By mid-October the Chandler’s could be reasonably assured of walking out of their front door without having a camera staring them in the face. Which meant that Jordie was able to play in the front yard or across the street at a friend’s house. To look at him, he seemed without a care, running and laughing like any other kid. But to those who knew him well, there was much inner conflict.

In Jordie’s small circle of friends there were boys and girls, but as of yet, la difference seemed to be of no interest to him. Then one day his friend’s eleven-year-old cousin came to play — a dark, slim beauty with big brown eyes. Jordie was smitten. And apparently the feeling was mutual. She returned the next day, and then the next, and soon they were spending much of their days together.

“He would do stuff,” Evan explained. “Like throw a stick to show her how macho he was. And then she’d remark how far he’d thrown it and act impressed. Sometimes they’d go off on their own, just a few houses away, and sit on the lawn and talk. The other kids would giggle and make fun of them. What a relief!”

“What do you think of her?” Evan asked his son, after watching the relationship blossom for several weeks. “I want to kiss her,” Jordie replied. But we might get in trouble with her mother. She’s too young.” And he was right. Not too young to kiss, perhaps, but too young to establish a more intimate bond — which I’m sure is what he had in mind.

Being the gentleman that he is, Jordie controlled his desires and learned an important lesson, for his patience was soon rewarded. A day or so later a new, older girl appeared on the block. “Hey, Pops,” Jordie exclaimed, “look at her, she’s beautiful!” And that she was. A sweet kid, too. They “dated” for over a year.” [9; page 188-189]

You want my opinion for why Sneddon did not force him to come? He was not sure Jordan was going to testify in their support, He had no idea what he was going to say if he was forced to testify, it was too much of a risk for him.

I wondered about this too. Whether Jordan even told them if they force him they might not like his testimony... Of course, they would not put that in their report about the meeting.

 

[xosweetseducingsighsxo]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

But why were not they afraid of fans when they sued MJ for the second time in 1996 for History album? They were involved in litigation with him for a very long time after the settlement.

What did the fans do to Gavin ? to June herself? to any of the ex employees?

If you feel strong about the man who molested your kid and you should feel strong, would not making sure he spends what is left of his life behind bars a priority?

When Jordan said he won't testify as he "did my part", what exactly was his part ? receiving a settlement in millions for apparently no obvious damage per his own family's admission , while other kids are still supposedly at risk of being molested?

Is this how a victim react ?

You want my opinion for why Sneddon did not force him to come? He was not sure Jordan was going to testify in their support, He had no idea what he was going to say if he was forced to testify, it was too much of a risk for him.

Exactly! Sometimes I wonder if these haters even know what the hell is coming out of their mouths.

But the Chandlers were not afraid of MJ fans when they were shopping a book almost immediately after the settlement. And when they eventually published said book in 2004. They were not afraid of fans when Ray Chandler was doing his media rounds. Or - like Soundmind mentioned - they weren't afraid of fans when they filed another multi-million dollar lawsuit against MJ in 1996.

Funny, how according to the Chandler's own book by mid-October 1993 (the case still in full gear) Jordan could carelessly run around in the neighborhood... it doesn't seem to me that anyone bothered him. Even before that it was the media who bothered them, not fans:








I wondered about this too. Whether Jordan even told them if they force him they might not like his testimony... Of course, they would not put that in their report about the meeting.

I would really like to see a hater say something about that. I can't help but facepalm this foolishness. It's like everyone outside of the fan community ignores just about EVERYTHING that proves the man's innocence. Is it wrong to feel like if this had been someone other than Michael this wouldn't be happening?

 

[la_cienega]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Do we know this for a fact? Could there have been an agreement in the settlement which prevented Jordy from taking the stand in the criminal trial? This is what that hater was insinuating to me on that other forum, and I didn't really have an answer for that.

If that had been done, it would be obstruction of justice and illegal.

The Chandler's admit repeatedly they did not want to testify and did not want a criminal trial. THEY were the ones avoiding it, not MJ.

If any of that had been possible, how would it have been possible for the Chandler's to sue him again for $60 million? How would it have been possible for June Chandler to testify in 2005?

They claim they hated the media and wanted privacy but immediately attempted to sell a book about it in January 1994, right after the settlement. Then Ray Chandler did various talk show interviews with excerpts from Evan Chandler's supposed diaries, while the Grand Jury was taking place, which the Chandler's were not involved with.

In September 1993, before they even began their lawsuit, they sold a story to the National Enquirer about the abuse - they allowed their abused son Jordan to speak to them. They gave the Enquirer documents from the case directly. Would a family scared of the media do this? We also know a National Enquirer employee had been contacted in May 1993, with one of them giving all the details of the supposed abuse to them over the phone for a story, but as there was no proof, they couldn't print it - this is before Jordan supposedly was drugged to confess in July, so how did they know all the details already?

They gave Diane Dimond copies of the DCFS report right away.

They spoke with glee about Blanca Francia's interviews in the press.

They were upset at the idea of a gag order.

They spoke about how this had to be a game played in the media.

These were not people afraid of their privacy being invaded at all on any level.


The thing about people outside the fandom is that they are normally entirely ignorant of what actually happened.

The media presents it so that it seems like the Chandler's claimed their son was abused, MJ quickly settled, this settlement prevented them from testifying, so MJ got off, and that Jordan lives his life in fear and trauma. That's how people believe it happened.

 

[analogue]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Exactly! Sometimes I wonder if these haters even know what the hell is coming out of their mouths.




I would really like to see a hater say something about that. I can't help but facepalm this foolishness. It's like everyone outside of the fan community ignores just about EVERYTHING that proves the man's innocence. Is it wrong to feel like if this had been someone other than Michael this wouldn't be happening?

What's creepy and disturbing is that some people actually want Michael to be guilty. Wouldn't you rather an accused child molester be innocent? Cause that would mean that no kids have been hurt.

 

[bluetopez]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

No. The law does not allow anyone to settle criminal trials. Here is the settlement as it was leaked in 2003 (the part that is redacted was edited out by Dimond):

I can't remember but has those parts ever been revealed? What was she redacting and didn't want the public to see? I remember some saying it was the insurance company who allegedly settled the case and info regarding how that happened that was redacted but, as we know that isn't true! So what is it then that's redacted?

We also know a National Enquirer employee had been contacted in May 1993, with one of them giving all the details of the supposed abuse to them over the phone for a story, but as there was no proof, they couldn't print it - this is before Jordan supposedly was drugged to confess in July, so how did they know all the details already?

Where you get this info from if it wasn't printed? If true, that some real important info right there. But, who is saying this took place?

 

[Amaya]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

For the bolded part: Now I've seen fans argue with a hater and bring that up. -_- The hater comes up with some stupid excuse to try and make it seem like the Chandlers did that to get away from the fans. Like what the hell could we do to them? See, if that was me and I knew I was telling the truth I wouldn't have signed it, but you know..those people make themselves so obvious that they're lying. Only sad thing is that the public is full of idiots that believe anything a tabloid says, and anything an idiot like Diane Dimond says. This is exactly why if I ever have children I'm gonna teach them common sense myself. This world will lead them into stupidity.

I once saw a hater respond to the "why get money instead" argument by saying that the Chandlers (as well as all those ex-Neverland employees who told fake molestation stories) truly cared more about money than about Jordie's welfare, and that "it doesn't mean Michael is innocent". They even went as far as to say that the physical altercation between Evan and Jordie in 2005 was actually Michael's fault because "what he did to that poor little kid hurt them so bad".

So Michael's supposed harmful acts against Jordie hurt the family so bad that it made Evan... also want to commit harmful acts against his son? I just...I can't even...

 

[analogue]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

If these haters really think that Michael was guilty even after The Chandlers took the money and ran then why don't they put Evan Chandler in the hot seat for pimping out his son?

 

[MJresearcher]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I once saw a hater respond to the "why get money instead" argument by saying that the Chandlers (as well as all those ex-Neverland employees who told fake molestation stories) truly cared more about money than about Jordie's welfare, and that "it doesn't mean Michael is innocent". They even went as far as to say that the physical altercation between Evan and Jordie in 2005 was actually Michael's fault because "what he did to that poor little kid hurt them so bad".

So Michael's supposed harmful acts against Jordie hurt the family so bad that it made Evan... also want to commit harmful acts against his son? I just...I can't even...

That's some twisted logic there! I'd love to know how Evan attacking Jordan would be MJ's fault, that's a really desperate argument. It's not consistent either, first they say the Chandlers didn't care about what they think happened to Jordan because they only wanted money but then they want you to believe that Evan was hurt by what happened to Jordan. They're all over the place!

 

[Ramona122003]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

For the bolded part: Now I've seen fans argue with a hater and bring that up. -_- The hater comes up with some stupid excuse to try and make it seem like the Chandlers did that to get away from the fans. Like what the hell could we do to them? See, if that was me and I knew I was telling the truth I wouldn't have signed it, but you know..those people make themselves so obvious that they're lying. Only sad thing is that the public is full of idiots that believe anything a tabloid says, and anything an idiot like Diane Dimond says. This is exactly why if I ever have children I'm gonna teach them common sense myself. This world will lead them into stupidity.

From my observations, Michael has the least violent fanbase. I mean, despite all the people who wronged Michael over the decades, not one of them was met with physical violence or harm. The worst I have seen is name-calling and ill-will wishing. However, no one within the fanbase have gone and hunted these people. Not like the haters stalking people on tweeter.

 

[MJresearcher]

This is a good thing to point out to people about how cases are settled:

Settling Cases

Relatively few lawsuits ever go through the full range of procedures and all the way to trial. Most civil cases are settled by mutual agreement between the parties. A dispute can be settled even before a suit is filed. Once a suit is filed, it can be settled before the trial begins, during the trial, while the jury is deliberating, or even after a verdict is rendered.

A settlement doesn’t usually state that anyone was right or wrong in the case, nor does it have to settle the whole case. Part of a dispute can be settled, with the remaining issues left to be resolved by the judge or jury.

Criminal cases are not settled by the parties in quite the same way civil cases are. However, not every case goes to trial. The government may decide to dismiss a case, or be ordered to do so by a court. The defendant may decide to plead guilty, perhaps as a result of negotiations with the government that result in dismissing some of the charges or recommending leniency in sentencing. Plea bargains are a very important and efficient way to resolve criminal cases.

http://www.americanbar.org/groups/p...n_network/how_courts_work/cases_settling.html

This shows that there is nothing wrong with settling civil cases and that criminal cases are dealt with differently. Note that it doesn't say civil settlements stop criminal trials. Once finding this out an honest person will drop that argument and cease to use it. If the person isn't honest and tries to keep using it, all they'll do is destroy their own credibility.

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I once saw a hater respond to the "why get money instead" argument by saying that the Chandlers (as well as all those ex-Neverland employees who told fake molestation stories) truly cared more about money than about Jordie's welfare, and that "it doesn't mean Michael is innocent". They even went as far as to say that the physical altercation between Evan and Jordie in 2005 was actually Michael's fault because "what he did to that poor little kid hurt them so bad".

So Michael's supposed harmful acts against Jordie hurt the family so bad that it made Evan... also want to commit harmful acts against his son? I just...I can't even...

Yeah, these haters rather think it's normal for parents to choose money over justice - they'd rather think that than to give it a though that maybe, just maybe money is the reason for these allegations in the first place.

I mean the whole allegations came from Evan, not Jordan. He pressured and blackmailed Jordan into making these allegations while he demanded money from Michael...

Sorry, but to ignore the monetary motive in this story and the formation of the allegation, while it is the main motive, is real hater blindness. All common sense goes out of the window when it comes to these allegations against MJ.

 

[MJresearcher]

Sorry, but to ignore the monetary motive in this story and the formation of the allegation, while it is the main motive, is real hater blindness. All common sense goes out of the window when it comes to these allegations against MJ.

Then they call us blind and don't see the irony. Evan's clear manipulation of Jordan can't be ignored either, Jordan only made the allegation after Evan lied to him and manipulated him. That's not how a concerned parent approaches their child on such an issue. I know you already know about this, but I'll put it here for thew sake of those who don't:

According to the Chandlers’ story, as presented in Ray Chandler’s 2004 book All That Glitters, after Jordan emerged from the sedation Evan pressured him to “confess” and corroborate his suspicions that Michael Jackson had sexually molested him. The boy refused. Then Evan started to blackmail him with lies and threats against his friend, Michael Jackson.

First Evan claimed he had bugged Jordan’s bedroom (admittedly a lie).

“When Jordie came strolling back from the kitchen, Evan went on the attack. “Have a seat, and listen very carefully to what I’m about to say. Do you remember when you came over to the house I told you that if you lie to me I was going to destroy Michael?” Jordie nodded that he did. “Good. Keep that in mind, because I’m going to ask you a question. Do you care about Michael?”

“Yes,” the boy answered.

‘You could say you love him, right?”

“Yes.”

“And you wouldn’t want to hurt him?”

“No.”

“Okay then, let me remind you of something. Remember I told you I bugged your bedroom?” Jordie nodded. “Well, I know everything you guys did, so you might as well admit it.” [1; page 90]

But Jordan remained “silent, seemingly unimpressed”[1; page 90] and “sensing this, Evan quickly changed tack” [1; page 90]. Then he tried to cajole Jordan by telling him that being bisexual was not only OK but was “sorta cool, in a way”[1; page 91]. That didn’t work either, Jordan still would not say that Jackson molested him.

Then Evan’s threats against Jackson became more direct and more aggressive:

“I’m going to give you one last chance to save Michael. If you lie to me, then I’m going to take him down in front of the whole world, and it’ll be all your fault because you’re the one person who could have saved him. [1; page 91]“

and

“I know about the kissing and the jerking off, so you’re not telling me anything I don’t already know,” Evan lied. “This isn’t about me finding anything out. It’s about lying. And you know what’s going to happen if you lie. So I’m going to make it very easy for you. I’m going to ask you one question. All you have to do is say yes, or no. That’s it. Lie and Michael goes down. Tell me the truth and you save him. [1; page 91]“

Jordan by this time, of course, knew what his father would consider “the truth” and what would he consider a “lie”, since Evan made that very clear. Ray Chandler writes in his book: “In his heart, Evan already knew the truth; he didn’t need Jordie to confirm it.” [1; page 91] In other words Evan had a fixed, preconceived idea that Jackson had molested his son and he would only accept confirmation from Jordan as “the truth”. Everything else would be considered a “lie” and would result in Evan acting to “taking down” the entertainer. And this is when Jordan, after pleading his father not to hurt Jackson, allegedly, gave in:

“Okay. What’s the question?”

“Did Michael touch your penis?”

Jordie hesitated. Then, almost inaudibly, he whispered “Yes.”

Evan would press no further. He had heard all he needed to hear. He reached out and hugged his son, and Jordie hugged back, tight.

“We never talked about it again,” Evan later told the L.A. district attorney. To Evan, the details didn’t matter. “The prison walls had cracked and I was confident the rest would take care of itself.” [1; page 91-92]

http://michaeljacksonallegations.com/how-did-the-allegations-of-the-chandlers-emerge/

Jordan says he was molested after a lot of pushing, threatening and manipulating and then Evan doesn't ask anymore questions. That raises a red flag!

That Michael Jackson allegations site is very good, I didn't know about it before joining this forum. I started researching it all not long after MJ died, saved info onto my computer and the like for about 3 years and then took a break for a while. In that time I became a bit rusty on some of the details. The info on that site is broken down to shorter posts which helps, I was used to reading posts that were sometimes 20,000 words on the Vindicating Michael blog. I still read it but I do like things to be as short and to the point as you can get them while proving what is said at the same time.

 

[Soundmind]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I don't believe any of that. Jordie went to many psychiatrists and repeated with great detail Evan's script. It was impossible for Evan to write that script alone without Jordan's input. I believe he was a willing party to please his father. If that was the way to stay with Evan who abandoned him for almost all his childhood he was willing to do it. They both worked on a gay movie script a year earlier. I believe that was their second one.

 

[seany]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Evan and Jordie both worked on a gay movie script??

 

[analogue]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Sorry if this upsets anyone here but can we please stop calling him Jordy. His name his Jordan.

I think the media uses the name Jordy to still make him sound like that ''sweet, innocent wittle boy''

 

[AliCat]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Why do I feel like I have gone "Back To The Future"?

It feels just like 1993, why? Because an irate parent stepped forward to become lucrative or his lifestyle. Evan wanted to get into Hollywood. Being a dentist who banks on patients who need him for drug's just wasn't lucrative enough. Carrie Fisher aka Star War's fame and later paid a visit to Michael at Christmas time in 2008, stated in her book about her former Beverly Hills dentist, Evan Chandler. Carrie Fisher performed for Michael's children at Christmas time in 2008.

Evan was paid to go away with his allegations. The figure of money that Evan wanted, fitted in with his idealism of what he should be paid for. Evan was going to make movies. Notice how after Evan made his money, he disappeared. It seems when you get your name on a major motion picture, because one of your patient's wrote a screenplay and seemingly the dentist knows of another connection for the screenwriter and his screenplay, to present it to Mel Brooks, suddenly Evan Chandler's ego spirals out of control. These connection's in Hollywood are playing to his lousy ego. He ain't no daddy of the year, either.

That's what I see in both Robson and Safechuck. This seemingly past connection to Michael Jackson. Now...Michael has a new project and they want to be paid to go away. Bad publicity like this kind will be no good to Michael Jackson's career. You see, we have gone "Back To The Future." Evan Chandler banked on people eating this up about Michael being inappropriate with young men. Evan took the innocence of the situation and turned it menacing!

 

[Soundmind]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Evan and Jordie both worked on a gay movie script??

yes they did

 

[HIStory]

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson files claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

yes they did

Which movie do you mean?

 

[Soundmind]

I apologize , it may not be excatly gay, but it has a lot of sexual references including gay. Jordan co wrote it with his dad . Robin Hood Men in Tights, immediately before the allegations.

http://michaeljacksonvindication2.w...une-chandler-and-dwayne-swingler-part-3-of-4/

June under cross by Mez :



5 Q. Do you remember complaining that Evan,

6 Jordan’s father, had promised him money for helping

7 him write the screenplay?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. And you complained that Evan had not paid

10 Jordan the money he owed him, true?

11 A. I didn’t complain. It was a statement.

12 Q. Well, you asked him to pay him the money,

13 right?

14 A. No, I did not.

15 Q. You didn’t tell him he owed your son $5,000?

16 A. It was a discussion.

17 Q. Okay. Did you want him to pay him that

18 money?

19 A. It would have been a nice thing, yes.

20 Q. He didn’t do it, did he?

21 A. No, he did not.

Here’s an excerpt from “All That Glitters”, pages 55-56, that describes June’s request that Evan pay Jordan for his work on the script:

When June arrived home, Michael and Jordie told her what had transpired at the graduation, including Evan’s decree that Jordie could not go on tour, June called Evan immediately, and with Michael and Jordie listening on speakerphone she launched into a tirade.
You’re a terrible father! You’re just using him for his writing talents.” June accused Evan of reneging on his promise to give Jordie five thousand dollars from the sale of Robin Hood. She announced that she was now managing their son’s career and if Evan wanted to collaborate with him again he would have to sign a contract with her. “What are you talking about?” Evan said. “Jordie didn’t write one word of that screenplay and you know it. He doesn’t know the first thing about it.” The only contribution Jordie had made was the original suggestion that it be a comedy, and occasionally he reviewed the script to see if it made him laugh. “I’m not going to give a thirteen-year-old five thousand dollars to spend at will,” Evan continued. “The money’s in the bank. He knows it and you know it. Please, June, let’s not argue about this. It’s stupid.”
Evan later surmised that the real reason June had read him the riot act was to make it clear to Michael that she had total control of Jordie. That she and she alone could give Michael what he wanted.
June ended the call by bashing Evan over the head with the very weapon he had so conveniently provided to her just a few weeks earlier, when he had joined forces with Michael to convince her about the once-in-a-lifetime educational experience awaiting their son. “We’re going on the tour,” June proclaimed, and hung up.
​

 

[Soundmind]

They were sorry his career took the hit it did and wished everything would be OK for him , WOW , I mean just wow

And here’s an excerpt from “All That Glitters”, pages 168-169, in which Ray Chandler describes how and why Allred was terminated in favor of Larry Feldman:

By the conclusion of the meeting, June and Dave, like Evan before them, had no doubts about switching from Gloria Allred to Larry Feldman. The choice came down to either waging an all-out media campaign to pressure the DA to seek a Grand Jury indictment, or conducting subtle, behind-the-scenes negotiations toward a quick, quiet and highly profitable settlement. Avoiding the trauma that a lengthy criminal or civil lawsuit would bring to the entire family, especially Jordie, was a no-brainer.
The pressure from public exposure had already soared beyond anyone’s imagination. It was, as Monique had put it (pardon her French), “A ****ing nightmare!” With Gloria Allred fanning the flames it would get even worse. No one needed that.
Allred meant well; no one doubted her sincerity and concern. And had the defendant been other than Michael Jackson, her strategy might have been more appealing. But Larry and Bob’s insights made a lot of sense. Getting a conviction against Michael would be near impossible without a second victim.
It may be said that Gloria was more concerned with the larger issue of child abuse, and thatbringing the truth to light via a criminal trial was a nobler goal than getting a lot of money and sweeping the entire affair under the rug. But as Evan commented months later, “The overriding consideration in every decision had to be what was best for Jordie, and Larry’s way was more consistent with that goal. Doing anything that might bring additional fear and anxiety was the last thing Jordie needed. Or any of us.”
Eliminating the horror of worldwide exposure from a protracted trial was not only the best thing for Jordie, it was best for Michael as well. The money it would cost him to settle with his accuser was incidental. Keeping his career intact was what really mattered. Shapiro knew all this from the start. By steering Evan and June toward Larry Feldman and away from Gloria Allred, he was doing everyone a mitzvah, including Michael Jackson.
​

A “mitzvah”, in the context that Ray Chandler used it in the preceding paragraph, means “ a good deed; an act of kindness performed by or to a Jew”. Here’s an excerpt from a June 16[SUP]th[/SUP], 1995 article of Entertainment Weekly magazine titled “Can He Beat It?”, in which Ray Chandler (referred to by his surname Charmatz) echoed those same sympathetic sentiments towards Jackson:

Since August 1993, Jackson has had no contact with the child — now a 15-year-old boy — who made the accusations against him. According to his uncle, Charmatz, the family nearly disintegrated in the months that followed the allegations. The child, who was living with his mother and stepfather until July 1993, moved in with his father and stepmother just before the report became public. Now both his parents have split with their spouses and the teen is living with his stepmother. Charmatz says the boy cut off contact with his mother shortly after the scandal broke.

”It was a ripple effect-the stress was tremendous and still is,” says Charmatz. ”He had a hard time for a while but now that’s died down. He’s doing well in school and he’s normal in the sense that he’s going out with girls and that’s his sexual preference. He’s still dealing with the psychological effects, but he’s stayed a sweet kid.”

Charmatz says his brother and nephew bear Jackson no ill will: ”They all loved him — that was why it was so hard to come to grips with what was going on. It’s too bad to see his career take the hit it did and we all hope he gets it back. They don’t hold any malice in their hearts toward Michael. I think they understand what’s happened in his life and how he’s an even bigger victim of abuse.”
​