Michael Jackson To Unleash World Premiere Experience At Billboard Music Awards

[#MJforever57]

Heck sometimes even the man himself was accused of being an impersonator (see the TII press conference) :lol:

You are so true alots of ppls was saying that it was not Michael.

 

[LastTear]

Are we arguing now about whether or not Michael posed in the throne
I have one too, cute one

Btw, wasn't that throne that they used in the video Michael's own, the one from Neverland?
See: http://thatgrapejuice.net/2010/03/r...son-exhibition-london/img00012-20100227-1622/


How about having woman hugging his feet or .....hmm something:

:cheeky:

It wasn't the same throne, I think it was designed to be similar but it's not the same one. I like this one also, baby Mike.

[/URL][/IMG]

 

[Allusio]

And I just posted a video which shows that there ISN'T much difference in terms of body.

WOW. Thank you too.

 

[WhoIsIt89]

Please, point out these obvious differences to me..

 

[Florin Daniel]

Perhaps that's one of the reasons why Earnest was considered as one of Michael's "official" doubles, and supported as such by the man himself while he was still alive..

No, that is no correct!
Earnest wasnt considered Michael's "official double" by noone. Earnest consideret himself the official double.
Also he never worked with Michael as he claims.

 

[Allusio]

Trust and respect go hand in hand, if I can't trust you, there's little reason for me to respect you, especially if you have a track record of shady business. And it still applies, people don't have to trust everything the Estate sends at them, and rightfully so.

So what you're attempting to get across is, that regardless of the valid reasons people have for not trusting the Estate, that we should just respect and eat up whatever they give to us? So basically, I should just have to accept a projection of an impersonator in CGI face as "Michael, like I've never seen him before"?

I should just respect and eat up an Estate released Jason Malachi record, labeled as Michael Jackson, simply because they say so?


Lol, I wish you well, but no, I will not just "respect" and eat up whatever the Estate says like you'd like me to.

First, I’m not going to blame anyone for promotion.

Second, if you don’t like something it is your right to disrespect or distrust but I see that in VMJ A LOT OF PEOPLE put their best. Why should I think that the work doesn’t deserve my respect just for it being hard.

 

[riviera1992]

Navi? He has something to say but I don't know what, the link just goes to CNN, probably the removed article containing he who shall not be named.

@officialnavi
A lot of questions have been asked. Some impersonators are trying to jump on the band wagon and claim they were... fb.me/2Y9ZpmykP
6:36pm - 21 May 14

So we have 3 potential stand ins and not one of them is actually denying their involvement.

Maybe they all auditioned for the gig?

 

[WhoIsIt89]

No, that is no correct!
Earnest wasnt considered Michael's "official double" by noone. Earnest consideret himself the official double.
Also he never worked with Michael as he claims.

Earnest was considered one of Michael's "official double's". There were three throughout Michael's life, E'Cas was the first. Then came Navi & Earnest, so much so that the two had numerous bickering contests over who was the more "official" between the two of them. Hilarious stuff.


This is from his wikipedia, take it for what it's worth though as Wikipedia sometimes isn't very reliable..

Earnest Valentino is the only officially recognized Michael Jackson-impersonator worldwide, certified by the man himself in the year 1988. In 2009 Earnest Valentino celebrated his 35th stage anniversary with performances of more than 6000(!) shows.

Sounds like something he'd write himself. I don't even think Michael was aware of Earnest in 1988.

 

[lom kit]

like always some are grabing straws here and count impressator names droped.
do you really took your time to search for tweets and facebook posts by alll those imressators? :doh::rofl:


i speak for myself. i'm not against, that impressator was used. i was expecting it.

what I am against is claiming, that none was used.

first, the deny of vocal impressator for some of the "Michael" songs.
now the deny of body impressator for the performance.

whats next?

i don't need any "official" statements, to "prove" me that impressator wasnt used.
i trust my ears.
i trust my eyes.

its selling the fans as stupid.

the estate is acting again, like they invented the bicycle new.

you can't cgi clothes to look and crease that real. its known what the method is to creat the illusion. the body structure can be altered digitaly to not be exactly as the body of the double, but more close to mj's.

the face isnt 100% cgi.
still pictures and live video frames of real MJ face were entered. the rest is cgi face of the impressator. if you look closely, the head and face changes all the time. and no thats not because of lighting and angles.

as VMJ starts to dance, even the cgi face looks like cgi face of Valentino guy, then mj. watch the HD recording thats in the 2000 watts section, not the YT low qualitys.
either the creators of this, didn't see the difference in real MJ face and the Valentinos face. that has been happening alot, even with new fans.
or the valentino's face was used intentionally as reference model for the illusion. basicaly this is cgi illussion of Valentino.


it doesn't matter to me, what the name off the impressator is.

just they need to be honest.

 

[Bubs]

Well the fact is, after the Cascio track debacle, and this recent example of them not being completely honest, that just isn't going to happen.

First of all, since when they have to contact on you or anyone else for that matter, and tell how they are going to do VMJ?
How do you think they should have done promoting for VMJ at BB awards. Tell to media, that we have this partial VMJ, but unfortunately it couldn't have been completely made of footage that we have from MJ so we had to use impersonator for part of dancing? You would be out of business before you have time to say MJ.

I don't get why people don't think for themselves the estates reasons and why they do things like this and this way?

Also you said "So I'll just say this...Seem's like plenty here have forgotten the standards Michael set for himself and his work, or simply no longer care."

How many times it has been said over and over again and again. Michael set the standards and cannot be duplicated because there is no one like Michael. The estate do what they can, but you are asking miracles.

 

[whateverhappens50]

Out of curiosity, what would you have done if you were executor and what kind of music you would have released?

I agree ppl seem to forget he had children to support and he was broke till aeg came along.

 

[WhoIsIt89]

Michael wasn't "broke until AEG" came along though. That's a myth.

 

[Allusio]

Please, point out these obvious differences to me..

LOL, yeah. Say what are the differences from two different men.

WhoIsIt89, the only their obvious similarity is that they are thing.
Listen Valentino can’t even walk on stage the way VMJ did …

 

[whateverhappens50]

I am not sure if I had done the whole hologram thing at all. Depends on many things. Maybe, if it was executed better with more advanced technology.

Music-wise I would've released the demos only. Xscape for example is perfectly fine as it is, no need to remix it. I do get the whole concept of the album, but then I would've named it a remix-album, not a regular version, as that's what it pretty much is. If I were to update old MJ tracks I would make sure to use the same kind of effects and tricks on those songs that Michael did ever since HIStory. It's not that difficult to follow those guidelines, Michael has made a lot of music and used a lot of the same kind of beats. Those kind of things could've been used in a more updated version of a song.

Fair enough.
Is that what you think MJ would have wanted or something you would have wanted MJ to do?

I personally don't think Michael would have never ever released demos only album. If he released demos, he mixed them within his new album.
Secondly, when MJ kept going back to those tracks over the years, he updated them with the current sound and stuff, he didn't try to keep them as 80's or 90's, and he most certainly didn't want to sound like his music was old, he wanted to sound current. You do know his saying to people he was working with, "sounds no one had heard before" or something similar.

Interestingly though everyone wishes to speak for michael, but noone knows what a broke michael jackson would have put up with to get back on track. He may have hated demos but he did release some, and speaking of his perfection at music wonder where all this sentiment was when Invincible came out that was all new music released by the man himself and in mj standards it flopped sooooo. Like I said , wonder what a broke mj would have chosen to do. We dont know.

 

[Florin Daniel]

Earnest was considered one of Michael's "official double's". There were three throughout Michael's life, E'Cas was the first. Then came Navi & Earnest, so much so that the two had numerous bickering contests over who was the more "official" between the two of them. Hilarious stuff.


This is from his wikipedia, take it for what it's worth though as Wikipedia sometimes isn't very reliable..



Sounds like something he'd write himself. I don't even think Michael was aware of Earnest in 1988.

I wrote that on Wikipedia! (just kiddig) Everyone can write in there...
I knew the only doube worked with Michael was E'Cas. The rest of them are just wannabe's running for a pice of cake.

Valentino lies and claims a lot.

 

[WhoIsIt89]

First of all, since when they have to contact on you or anyone else for that matter, and tell how they are going to do VMJ?
How do you think they should have done promoting for VMJ at BB awards. Tell to media, that we have this partial VMJ, but unfortunately it couldn't have been completely made of footage that we have from MJ so we had to use impersonator for part of dancing? You would be out of business before you have time to say MJ.

I don't get why people don't think for themselves the estates reasons and why they do things like this and this way?

Also you said "So I'll just say this...Seem's like plenty here have forgotten the standards Michael set for himself and his work, or simply no longer care."

How many times it has been said over and over again and again. Michael set the standards and cannot be duplicated because there is no one like Michael. The estate do what they can, but you are asking miracles.

Uhm, what? I'm asking for miracles by simply hoping them to stay somewhat true to Michael's music and legacy? The Estate says on their own, that they exist to preserve and continue Michael's legacy. They also say everything Michael did during his life accounts to that legacy, including the standard he set for his work. But I'm asking too much by hoping they stay somewhat true to their own statement of "preserving and continuing" Michael's legacy? Yea okay....


We don't think for ourselves? The whole reason we're now being portrayed by some as the "enemies of the MJ Estate", is because we're (people) thinking for ourselves. I've said countless times, in numerous instances that I'm aware the Estate needs to make money, I've said in numerous instances that I support them "contemporizing" songs, in order to make money, as it's what needs to be done to sell today. However nowhere, did I expect contemporizing meant, completely removing every contribution Michael made to the song outside of his lyrics and just having a producer do their own thing. And even with that, for all but one song on the Xscape album, I have no problem with.

This was advertised as "Michael", I expect to see Michael, and no I don't mean Michael back from the dead, be real. Common sense says I expect to see an image of Michael, no matter where it may be from, no matter the performance, I expect to see Michael, perhaps doing the moves that he actually mo-capped in Ghosts. I DO NOT expect to see the image of an impersonator. Which is what I believe I saw.

But I'm asking miracles? Please.

 

[Birchey]

like always some are grabing straws here and count impressator names droped.
do you really took your time to search for tweets and facebook posts by alll those imressators? :doh::rofl:


i speak for myself. i'm not against, that impressator was used. i was expecting it.

what I am against is claiming, that none was used.

first, the deny of vocal impressator for some of the "Michael" songs.
now the deny of body impressator for the performance.

whats next?

i don't need any "official" statements, to "prove" me that impressator wasnt used.
i trust my ears.
i trust my eyes.

its selling the fans as stupid.

the estate is acting again, like they invented the bicycle new.

you can't cgi clothes to look and crease that real. its known what the method is to creat the illusion. the body structure can be altered digitaly to not be exactly as the body of the double, but more close to mj's.

the face isnt 100% cgi.
still pictures and live video frames of real MJ face were entered. the rest is cgi face of the impressator. if you look closely, the head and face changes all the time. and no thats not because of lighting and angles.

as VMJ starts to dance, even the cgi face looks like cgi face of Valentino guy, then mj. watch the HD recording thats in the 2000 watts section, not the YT low qualitys.
either the creators of this, didn't see the difference in real MJ face and the Valentinos face. that has been happening alot, even with new fans.
or the valentino's face was used intentionally as reference model for the illusion. basicaly this is cgi illussion of Valentino.


it doesn't matter to me, what the name off the impressator is.

just they need to be honest.

You are correct, the face was only "Modified" and you can still see Valentino's face in some parts of the "Illusion", I wonder how the people who don't mind an impersonators body feel about haveing his actually face represent Michael aswell?

 

[whateverhappens50]

Michael wasn't "broke until AEG" came along though. That's a myth.

Who told you that, karen

 

[Bubs]

Heck sometimes even the man himself was accused of being an impersonator (see the TII press conference) :lol:

:rollin:

 

[WhoIsIt89]

LOL, yeah. Say what are the differences from two different men.

WhoIsIt89, the only their obvious similarity is that they are thing.
Listen Valentino can’t even walk on stage the way VMJ did …

In other words, you can't...I "respect" it.

Of course he can't walk the stage the way Michael did, neither did "VMJ"....You telling me this walk here @ 1:10

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/jDRTghGZ7XU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Is identical to this @ 0:27

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/UM65_3T0DvM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Is that what you're telling me?

 

[WhoIsIt89]

Who told you that, karen

Probably the same people who told you Michael was broke, TMZ.


Seriously, Michael wasn't broke, lol. And fans who say that, in most instances on this forum, get told the opposite by nearly everyone. But I guess that's not gonna happen now, because the whole "Michael was broke" theory, supports their belief that the Estate can do whatever they want, no matter how corny or tacky, just to make money.


Michael was in debt. Michael owed money. Michael wasn't broke.

 

[Allusio]

Uhm, what? I'm asking for miracles by simply hoping them to stay somewhat true to Michael's music and legacy? The Estate says on their own, that they exist to preserve and continue Michael's legacy. They also say everything Michael did during his life accounts to that legacy, including the standard he set for his work. But I'm asking too much by hoping they stay somewhat true to their own statement of "preserving and continuing" Michael's legacy? Yea okay....


We don't think for ourselves? The whole reason we're now being portrayed by some as the "enemies of the MJ Estate", is because we're (people) thinking for ourselves. I've said countless times, in numerous instances that I'm aware the Estate needs to make money, I've said in numerous instances that I support them "contemporizing" songs, in order to make money, as it's what needs to be done to sell today. However nowhere, did I expect contemporizing meant, completely removing every contribution Michael made to the song outside of his lyrics and just having a producer do their own thing. And even with that, for all but one song on the Xscape album, I have no problem with.

This was advertised as "Michael", I expect to see Michael, and no I don't mean Michael back from the dead, be real. Common sense says I expect to see an image of Michael, no matter where it may be from, no matter the performance, I expect to see Michael, perhaps doing the moves that he actually mo-capped in Ghosts. I DO NOT expect to see the image of an impersonator. Which is what I believe I saw.

But I'm asking miracles? Please.

First, everybody has a right on mistakes.

Second, &#8220;to stay somewhat true to Michael's music and legacy&#8221; it is easy to say &#8230;

Write a plan, spend time to perfect it, put your heart in it and don&#8217;t forget about the respect!

I&#8217;m sure in our minds we all know best what to do.

But guess what &#8211; there&#8217;ll be thousands of fans to point at you saying &#8211; your work is disgusting.

And if you unfortunately, make a mistake &#8211; no more trust!

YOU HAD TO DO RIGHT not according to yourself but according to other millions of strangers.

REAL Michael in his best couldn&#8217;t do so &#8230; and it is important to say he NEVER tried to, he had his inner radar for what he wanted.

Isn&#8217;t it a miracle for one lawyer and a producer to manage with it ...

 

[whateverhappens50]

Probably the same people who told you Michael was broke, TMZ.


Seriously, Michael wasn't broke, lol. And fans who say that, in most instances on this forum, get told the opposite by nearly everyone. But I guess that's not gonna happen now, because the whole "Michael was broke" theory, supports their belief that the Estate can do whatever they want, no matter how corny or tacky, just to make money.


Michael was in debt. Michael owed money. Michael wasn't broke.

Yes he was, in his world thats broke at least enough to have to live off the good graces of others. My point isnt his brokeness its how he would fix it if he had no more power. You and the rest of your crew of estate haters are not contributing to. The most important thing to michael and that is his kids not the integrity of some cutting room floor music he wasnt releasing. He probably would be secretly cracking up that songs he was never going to use actually hit number one.

My whole thing is this, while we are fighting the real guilty parties are laughing all the way to the bank. They are the ones who stole his unfinished work and sold it.but hey the kids need money right? Stop playing if mj had dough he wouldnt have gone back on stage he said he didnt want to be moonwalking at 50.

 

[Allusio]

In other words, you can't...I "respect" it.

3:57 So you don&#8217;t trust me. You know I wrote a list of differences but I guess if you don&#8217;t see the difference in two real different men (REAL Michael and Valentino, it is a shock for me by itself) there&#8217;s no use to point it out.

So you actually can&#8217;t differ Michael from impersonator?

Edit: I&#8217;ve said Valentino can&#8217;t walk on stage the way VMJ (Visual MJ) did

 

[darkmed]

Also Valentino is a liar son of a b*** and the biggest opportunist!

He went 3 times in one year here in Romania... acting like Michael Jackson himself (both, on stage and off stage)
Most of his videos are from Romania.
He went on television giving interviews.
He had even a live internet press conference before "the shows" (not even Michael himself had one)

He stated in interviews that he is the official double of MJ (like every impersonator state that he is the official and the no1) and that he was friend with Michael for a long time, and he worked with Michael since Bad Tour, and so on....

The true fact is that Valentino meet Michel for the frst time at the London Thrillel Killer Party in 2002. Probably that's the only and single time he ever meet Michael.

Michael's messenger MY A$$

Easy with your heart friend lol i know you are passionate but c'mon watch out for your health (mental and physical) that valentino guy physically talking has nothing to do with michael (even with his plastic surgery thing).

 

[Gold Pants Girl]

You didn't see them here, not on this forum. People only mentioned Chris during the first day or two after, after he posted what he did on facebook. Nobody on this forum, in this thread said that the dance moves were "just like" Chris's and that it "looks just like" Chris, not here. Earnest Valentino HAS been the only impersonator we've been talking about after Chris, no one else. So yes, what you said was 100% wrong, because none of it applies to any of us on this forum, in this thread.

So I'm 100% wrong because comments were made on other places and not here? This shows your lack of respect and understanding for other peoples opinions, news flash, this isn't the only place on the internet to discuss MJ. Why you are being so defensive and forceful with your OPINION I have no idea.

 

[Birchey]

Thing is with Chris he posted summat and everyone got too lazy to use google translate. Thing is we know Michael's moves we don't know how impersonators move, we knew it was one of them and we found the guy, infact you can even see his full face in the performance. So hey guys, your new king of pop.............Earnest Valentino :girl_pride:

 

[Gold Pants Girl]

No, that is no correct!
Earnest wasnt considered Michael's "official double" by noone. Earnest consideret himself the official double.
Also he never worked with Michael as he claims.

I don't consider Earnest a "official" double, there is really no such thing, but he was a stand in for MJ for the HIStory trailer once MJ left,he never met him then though. His picture is actually in the HIStory booklet, I think it's on one of the last pages, it's the far away shot of MJ with the army. He was used because he lived near by.

 

[Tygger]

Last Tear, there is no need for you to take offense as anything that happened at Billboard was NOT anything that can be attributed to Michael minus vocals. You posted a picture of Michael at his home and Bubs posted a publicity still photo when no one questioned that Michael would sit on a chair resembling a throne. The picture of him as a child on a throne is an obvious photoshop done after he passed.

What was questioned was would he do that onstage and neither of you will find anything suggesting Michael would do such as it was never his decision to do so; it was the decision of others.

But this...

How about having woman hugging his feet or .....hmm something:

There is a suggestion having the woman at what was supposed to be Michael's feet at Billboard and neither of you will be able to post photo/video suggesting Michael did such in his past performances. In the attempt to twist my words, Bubs may be suggesting with this photo that maybe Michael somehow rehearsed with this fan and when she fell to his feet of her own accord, it was a rehearsed performance instead of an impulsive act by a female fan overcome with emotion at seeing her hero. Even if that was rehearsed, the suggestion of a fan overcome with emotion and a female dancer at what was supposed to be Michael's feet at Billboard are separate and apart.

Again, that is danger of using someone's image. Two posters have now attempting to re-interpret Michael's past performances so it aligns with the Estate's Billboard spectacle. Nice.

It would be easier if one simply posts video of Michael performing as whatever that was on Billboard's stage did as that is what technology was fed to spit out what we saw. Unless of course the Estate has performances fans never saw circa 1991.

 

[WhoIsIt89]

So I'm 100% wrong because comments were made on other places and not here? This shows your lack of respect and understanding for other peoples opinions, news flash, this isn't the only place on the internet to discuss MJ. Why you are being so defensive and forceful with your OPINION I have no idea.

I'm being forceful with my opinion, but this is you...

Why are people calling the Estate and Robin Leach liars? Maybe some should read things properly. The Estate never said a word about newly found STTR footage, Robin did mention it, but no where did he state that they were using it in the performance.

Telling us we should read things properly as if we couldn't read it right the first. When the fact is, not only did Robin mention it, he also that the "newly discovered footage" would be used for the performance. He then posted a quote of "someone who told him" that it would be, stating "They didn't know what they originally wanted to do with it or make with it, other than just capturing Michael forever. That became the background for this "new" technology." But hey, you didn't see me responding in that manner, though knowing it was an inaccurate generalisation.

If you feel I'm being forceful with my opinion, I'm sorry that you feel that way, but I'm not. It's simply the result of a heated discussion amongst people who are saying things like we should just respect and accept whatever the Estate releases and throws at us, just because. And people attempting to imply that we don't Michael from the average impersonator. And people blatantly overlooking posts and going ahead claiming that we simply believe it wasn't a full CGI image because "Alki said so". Excuse me for "defensive and forceful" with my opinion, when from the second this performance ended, there are people telling us that we shouldn't even voice our opinions simply because it's "negative" and goes against their enjoyment of the performance, as if we're not entitled the right to speak on it". Yea, try and look at it from both sides of the spectrum.

And like I said before, your statement was inaccurate generalisation, because not once did you mention another forum or anywhere else, you just said "Everyone first said it was Christopher and then other impersonators, NOW Earnest Valentino?", as if those of here stating such (that it's Earnest) have no clue what we're talking about.


And you're also wrong in your assertion that I have no respect or understanding for the opposite opinion. Because again, all of my previous posts go against that. Since I've been discussing this I've constantly said I'm happy for those who enjoyed it, I'm happy they enjoy it, and are able to enjoy it for what it is before posting what I felt in regards to the performance. From the jump...So yeah. Thing is, like I said, when there are people like what I mentioned in that second paragraph of mine, all of that disappears, because not one of them are being respectful of our opinion, it's still people in here typing as if we simply have no idea what we're talking about and that we have no reason to feel the way we do. When in fact, we have MULTIPLE, VALID reasons as to why we feel the way we do.