Michael Jackson To Unleash World Premiere Experience At Billboard Music Awards

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I just saw this video regarding Hologram so will post in here. It's the guy that suing the estate & billboard last week

Yet another confirmation that an actor (impersonator) was involved in the whole dancing including the head, then they rendered the face.


Alki David cannot confirm anything because he has got nothing to do with the MJ hologram. In his lawsuit he claims he hasn't heard about it until May 15 and now he says they recorded it there - please you are all smarter than that. He's suing Estate for using this patents - we discussed this before. so the claim that "hologram USA is behind virtual MJ" is a blatant lie. So he's just being opportunistic and taking credit for something he had absolutely no involvement and no knowledge. It's no different than Alki David having multiple news conferences and interviews about bogus DNA test and secret son of MJ. For whatever reason Alki David is the latest person who is milking Michael with lies for money.

And to be even more clear, Alki David's patent is just the projector / pepper's ghost technology. He wasn't involved in creation of Tupac hologram either. What he does is just to play / project the holograms. So he really doesn't have any first hand involvement / knowledge of creating dead celebrity holograms. CGI (tupac, avatar movie, michael) etc is done by a totally different firm than Alki's.
 
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Mainly because it was so obvious they're trying to cash in on this album, and because the performance was done very poorly. On the other hand we're both happy to hear new music (even though I completely deleted the remix versions on my iTunes) but yeah... It's sad. But I am not angry about it.

What pissess me off the most is Timbaland and LA Reid being involved in the producing of the album. LA is known for his greed; a lot of artists have hinted this many times. P!nk, Janet Jackson to name a few. Timbaland... On the day MJ died he was on the phone with MTV pretending to be sad and crying, and then saying he was never a fan of Michael, nor did he listen to his music. I could just smell the FAKE on him ever since. The album is what I'm angry about (excluding the original demo versions), the performance not so much.

My reply is not directed only at you but some others who feels MJ's wishes are not respected and this album shouldn't have come out.

Of course the estate is doing whatever they can in order to bring money to the estate and sort out the money issues there. They are the gatekeepers for MJ's legacy, and to be honest, I think they deserve a little more credit for what they have done, and little less verbal abuse. In case you haven't followed proceedings, it is not like MJ's estate is swimming in the money. To get money, they simply cannot keep re-re-re-re releasing old albums with few demo songs added. That would really stink like trying to cash in, so it is perfectly understandable that they dug out these songs and put them out. They also involved massive marketing campaign to support the sales for this album, and they spent $400.000 to that "poorly"(your words not mine) performance. I can say they tried their best to bring the best out of that performance, and taken into consideration how long it takes to do such a performance.

About involving Timberland and KA Reid.
Everybody who works for money are greedy! It is not unusual that there are disputes between artist and record label or producer. This was the case even when Michael was alive, re Quincy and Sony. He wanted to work with the best people out there, not with the people who were the biggest fans of his. The estate did the right thing getting those on board, as they seem to be good at what they do, and Timba is supposed to be top producer at the moment.

As you say if Timba wasn't fan of MJ, and he still managed to get album out that is breaking records all over the world, I don't care if he hated Michael.

I personally think this album is perfect so many ways, it has everything for everybody, but fans still argue about it.

Last thought, if I were executor of Michael's estate, I would steal all his tapes and move myself into one of those warehouses they have all Michael's stuff and I would happily live there watching things and listening his music. I wouldn't bother trying to please this fan base, except I would release MJ cookies as per "hard core" fans request (only what MJ wanted) :cheeky:
 
^ These are opinions. You have yours, I have mine. While I respect yours, I disagree with what you're saying. I am not arguing with anyone, just giving my thoughts and opinion on the new album and the performance.

I personally couldn't care less about the estate's financial situation, nor anything else regarding those matters. What I do care about is Michael Jackson's legacy and image, of which he, himself was very careful about. I believe a song called Money talks about this issue.
 
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I enjoy reading all these different opinions. The only other site I'm involved in (not so much anymore) is a Muse fansite. There would be the exact same amount of arguments/criticising by fans there when a new album is released so all of this is completely organic.

That being said I am liking the illusion more and more every time that I watch it now that I know not to expect Michael, but I sure hope that they can improve upon the dance moves. Giving the illusion a microphone to hide the mouth may be an idea too.
 
I'm trying my best to stay out of this whole thing because it makes me so angry. Angry that they did it, angry that so many "fans" bought into it and most of all angry at the constant insult to Michael and his legacy the estate keep dealing out. First the faked his voice. Then they set about systematically trying to change his life story and now they are faking him completely, his image, his moves, his very essence. My only hope now is when Prince and co come of age they will step in and put this BS to an end once and for all. Then, finally, we may get the releases Michael deserves. That is of course, if he still has a legacy to save by that point. Which if the estate keep on as they are, just won't be the case.
 
JustMe00;4010832 said:
^ These are opinions. You have yours, I have mine. While I respect yours, I disagree with what you're saying. I am not arguing with anyone, just giving my thoughts and opinion on the new album and the performance.

I personally couldn't care less about the estate's financial situation, nor anything else regarding those matters. What I do care about is Michael Jackson's legacy and image, of which he, himself was very careful about. I believe a song called Money talks about this issue.

So you care about Michael’s legacy and image? But how exactly LA “greed” or Timbaland “hate” can effect this?! If they are so into money – they are doing their job the best way they can … and what is wrong with it?

You know part of MJ legacy and image was his passion to be the best, innovative, successful … to be the King !!! And whether you like Xscape or not so far IMO it is successful and represents Michael well.

I understand that you don’t care about the estate's financial situation … But I personally would like PPB to be in charge of the Estate with NO debts !!! IMO Michael would appreciate all executers and producers help with this.



I’m afraid that one day fans will attack PPB for decisions they will make …
 
Allusio;4010879 said:
So you care about Michael’s legacy and image? But how exactly LA “greed” or Timbaland “hate” can effect this?! If they are so into money – they are doing their job the best way they can … and what is wrong with it?

You know part of MJ legacy and image was his passion to be the best, innovative, successful … to be the King !!! And whether you like Xscape or not so far IMO it is successful and represents Michael well.

I don't understand what you're trying to say? Their greed would influence his legacy in a bad way, obviously, as it'd be based on creating something fast to make money instead of creating something unique and artistic, like MJ did. In any case I might as well say bye to this thread, way too much of emotional charge here.

That is again a personal opinion of yours, like mine was.
 
JustMe00;4010886 said:
I don't understand what you're trying to say? Their greed would influence his legacy in a bad way, obviously, as it'd be based on creating something fast to make money instead of creating something unique and artistic, like MJ did. In any case I might as well say bye to this thread, way too much of emotional charge here.

That is again a personal opinion of yours, like mine was.


Sorry if my post offended you.

But I had no clue that Xscape album sounds cheap … Well, sorry again.
 
I agree all the complaints about the album coming out and the hologram is ridiculous, ppb need money, mj was in heavy debt and no one is suggesting other ways to fill the estate for them beside sales of unreleased music till I hear something that make some sense I'm buying his music. He did a lot for folks when he was alive and if my buying will help his kids and whatever ventures he left behind then I will buy.
 
Basically it was a floating head on someone else's body. In my opinion the whole concept is disgusting (same goes for Tupac). But at least Tupac had better head. It should never happen again.
 
Basically it was a floating head on someone else's body. In my opinion the whole concept is disgusting (same goes for Tupac). But at least Tupac had better head. It should never happen again.

Your post got me laughing in tears - floating head - Tupac had better head than Michael
:hysterical:

The estate better make some adjustments so Mike's head is better than Tupac's:D and catch up that floating head :giggle:
 
^ These are opinions. You have yours, I have mine. While I respect yours, I disagree with what you're saying. I am not arguing with anyone, just giving my thoughts and opinion on the new album and the performance.

I personally couldn't care less about the estate's financial situation, nor anything else regarding those matters. What I do care about is Michael Jackson's legacy and image, of which he, himself was very careful about. I believe a song called Money talks about this issue.

Out of curiosity, what would you have done if you were executor and what kind of music you would have released?
 
Out of curiosity, what would you have done if you were executor and what kind of music you would have released?
I am not sure if I had done the whole hologram thing at all. Depends on many things. Maybe, if it was executed better with more advanced technology.

Music-wise I would've released the demos only. Xscape for example is perfectly fine as it is, no need to remix it. I do get the whole concept of the album, but then I would've named it a remix-album, not a regular version, as that's what it pretty much is. If I were to update old MJ tracks I would make sure to use the same kind of effects and tricks on those songs that Michael did ever since HIStory. It's not that difficult to follow those guidelines, Michael has made a lot of music and used a lot of the same kind of beats. Those kind of things could've been used in a more updated version of a song.
 
I am not sure if I had done the whole hologram thing at all. Depends on many things. Maybe, if it was executed better with more advanced technology.

Music-wise I would've released the demos only. Xscape for example is perfectly fine as it is, no need to remix it. I do get the whole concept of the album, but then I would've named it a remix-album, not a regular version, as that's what it pretty much is. If I were to update old MJ tracks I would make sure to use the same kind of effects and tricks on those songs that Michael did ever since HIStory. It's not that difficult to follow those guidelines, Michael has made a lot of music and used a lot of the same kind of beats. Those kind of things could've been used in a more updated version of a song.

Fair enough.
Is that what you think MJ would have wanted or something you would have wanted MJ to do?

I personally don't think Michael would have never ever released demos only album. If he released demos, he mixed them within his new album.
Secondly, when MJ kept going back to those tracks over the years, he updated them with the current sound and stuff, he didn't try to keep them as 80's or 90's, and he most certainly didn't want to sound like his music was old, he wanted to sound current. You do know his saying to people he was working with, "sounds no one had heard before" or something similar.
 
Quick question for everyone. Do you think the "performance" would have been better, with say real unreleased footage of Michael, but used in a "Magical" style. like have the dancers live on stage with the firework show etc, have MJ appear one side do some moves then dissapear into a puff of smoke/sparkles etc, to appear the other side of the stage or even arena to do some more moves etc. Because we keep being told this is an illusion and you can't recreate Michael so don't take it too seriously that it didn't really move or look like him, but they did the performance in one whole shot, they were clearly looking for realism and to fool the eyes so to speak. I think using a "magical" approach, showing the real MJ performing, disappearing illusions etc, plus it would have been alot easier to match up the CGI head movements etc.

Author's Note - This is a question, I am sure there is suppose to be a question mark in the above paragraph somewhere............I am just too lazy to figure out where its supposed to be :rollin:
 
Fair enough.
Is that what you think MJ would have wanted or something you would have wanted MJ to do?

I personally don't think Michael would have never ever released demos only album. If he released demos, he mixed them within his new album.
Secondly, when MJ kept going back to those tracks over the years, he updated them with the current sound and stuff, he didn't try to keep them as 80's or 90's, and he most certainly didn't want to sound like his music was old, he wanted to sound current. You do know his saying to people he was working with, "sounds no one had heard before" or something similar.
I think it would be a better option than what has been released now. I did speak about updating the tracks but following the MJ sound. :)
 
Quick question for everyone. Do you think the "performance" would have been better, with say real unreleased footage of Michael, but used in a "Magical" style. like have the dancers live on stage with the firework show etc, have MJ appear one side do some moves then dissapear into a puff of smoke/sparkles etc, to appear the other side of the stage or even arena to do some more moves etc. Because we keep being told this is an illusion and you can't recreate Michael so don't take it too seriously that it didn't really move or look like him, but they did the performance in one whole shot, they were clearly looking for realism and to fool the eyes so to speak. I think using a "magical" approach, showing the real MJ performing, disappearing illusions etc, plus it would have been alot easier to match up the CGI head movements etc.

Author's Note - This is a question, I am sure there is suppose to be a question mark in the above paragraph somewhere............I am just too lazy to figure out where its supposed to be :rollin:

Omg... "Puff of smoke" and "sparkles"- Birchey, you totally got my attention! Yes, that would be awesome! :lol:
 
Quick question for everyone. Do you think the "performance" would have been better, with say real unreleased footage of Michael, but used in a "Magical" style. like have the dancers live on stage with the firework show etc, have MJ appear one side do some moves then dissapear into a puff of smoke/sparkles etc, to appear the other side of the stage or even arena to do some more moves etc. Because we keep being told this is an illusion and you can't recreate Michael so don't take it too seriously that it didn't really move or look like him, but they did the performance in one whole shot, they were clearly looking for realism and to fool the eyes so to speak. I think using a "magical" approach, showing the real MJ performing, disappearing illusions etc, plus it would have been alot easier to match up the CGI head movements etc.

Author's Note - This is a question, I am sure there is suppose to be a question mark in the above paragraph somewhere............I am just too lazy to figure out where its supposed to be :rollin:
Totally would've loved that! The estate should hire you! LOL
 
Quick question for everyone. Do you think the "performance" would have been better, with say real unreleased footage of Michael, but used in a "Magical" style. like have the dancers live on stage with the firework show etc, have MJ appear one side do some moves then dissapear into a puff of smoke/sparkles etc, to appear the other side of the stage or even arena to do some more moves etc. Because we keep being told this is an illusion and you can't recreate Michael so don't take it too seriously that it didn't really move or look like him, but they did the performance in one whole shot, they were clearly looking for realism and to fool the eyes so to speak. I think using a "magical" approach, showing the real MJ performing, disappearing illusions etc, plus it would have been alot easier to match up the CGI head movements etc.

Author's Note - This is a question, I am sure there is suppose to be a question mark in the above paragraph somewhere............I am just too lazy to figure out where its supposed to be :rollin:

Hard to say if I think it would have been better without seeing an example, but on paper of course it sounds better to use actual footage of Michael so therefore we are all probably going to agree with you. Lol

Would it be easier to match up the CGI head movements though? Idk, I'm really trying to learn what is a feasible realistic expectation.
 
JustMe00;4010970 said:
I think it would be a better option than what has been released now. I did speak about updating the tracks but following the MJ sound. :)

Only MJ knew what are MJ sounds should be on his songs … and he invented new sounds constantly, IMO just repeat ONLY those sounds we already heard would be boring. But in all honesty, producers mixed enough MJ sounds, samples in new versions. And why not to have two versions of one song?
 
Allusio;4011046 said:
Only MJ knew what are MJ sounds should be on his songs … and he invented new sounds constantly, IMO just repeat ONLY those sounds we already heard would be boring. But in all honesty, producers mixed enough MJ sounds, samples in new versions. And why not to have two versions of one song?
Yeah only MJ knew and therefor on Xscape those sounds you're hearing are not what he wanted. But it'd certainly be more true to his legacy to use the same kind of sound world's he did since HIStory, than to completely re-work all of them. just my opinion tho.
 
It'd be easier to match the CGI expressions with that of Michael's own face. Part of the reason the Billboard performance was so critiqued, was the lack of the "Michael" facial expressions. As common with Earnest Valentino, he lacks those for the most post. You can tell by the lack of expressions, that he too, made no effort to duplicate that while they were filming.

It'd be easier using Michael's own face as a map, because you can then match what those moves are which coincide with the expressions, like the way Michael used to pucker his lips or squint his eyes toward the crowd during certain performances, he just had a type of aggression in his face when performing that can only be matched using HIM, and not anyone else.
 
just watch the video of how they created the tupac hologram, they cut his face from the concert video i posted.. and got an impersonator to do the moves on stage! it was easier for them considering they had some material for the song that was used.
 
I've always thought it would of saved a lot of time and energy to update the songs and stay true to the originals. I actually like quite a few of the songs on Xscape, I like what they have done with LNFSG, Chicago, Lovin' You and the new Xscape. However, I would like the whole thing a lot more if they had simply stayed true to the original songs but just updated the sound. I'm not too familiar with all of this but I can imagine it was a lot harder creating entirely new music for these songs.

Blue Gangsta for instance is a song that I believe would do well today with just a few tweaks here and there and a bit more of an updated sound, however they changed the entire song bar the vocals and it has ended up sounding awful to me. They created a lot of work for themselves when it would of been easier and better to stay true to the originals but just update the sound.

As for the performance, as I have said numerous times I just wouldn't have attempted this yet if the technology is not at the stage yet to do it right. I was fine with the Love Never Felt So Good performance they came up with, it was very good. But they achieved their goal with promotion for the album though I guess they're happy with it.

I like the statement the estate put out this morning, that made it a lot more bearable for me and I've calmed down since reading it, they basically acknowledged what I wanted them to acknowledge and did so in a clever way so I'm glad about that. If it helped 'the name' of Michael Jackson get higher up the charts then I'm happy with it but only if we don't see it again until the technology is at a stage where they can do it right.

I'm all good now, I might of over reacted when I said it was the same as the Cascio tracks....it is comparable to that in a way however.
 
JustMe00;4011048 said:
Yeah only MJ knew and therefor on Xscape those sounds you're hearing are not what he wanted. But it'd certainly be more true to his legacy to use the same kind of sound world's he did since HIStory, than to completely re-work all of them. just my opinion tho.

I always thought that Michael loved to create new but not to repeat himself … So I, personally, just don’t see how it would be more true to his legacy. But ok, sound he did since History.
 
Allusio;4011065 said:
I always thought that Michael loved to create new but not to repeat himself … So I, personally, just don’t see how it would be more true to his legacy. But ok, sound he did since History.

It isn't repeating. Michael Jackson had his own sound that you could hear from an album to album. It doesn't mean you make it sound old, it just means you follow that sound and add a modern twist to it.
 
It'd be easier to match the CGI expressions with that of Michael's own face. Part of the reason the Billboard performance was so critiqued, was the lack of the "Michael" facial expressions. As common with Earnest Valentino, he lacks those for the most post. You can tell by the lack of expressions, that he too, made no effort to duplicate that while they were filming.

It'd be easier using Michael's own face as a map, because you can then match what those moves are which coincide with the expressions, like the way Michael used to pucker his lips or squint his eyes toward the crowd during certain performances, he just had a type of aggression in his face when performing that can only be matched using HIM, and not anyone else.

So now we are saying it wasn't even Michaels head?

Where you say 'he too, made no effort to duplicate that while they were filming' makes it sound like it's officially confirmed that it was him. Have I missed something in these threads or are we just assuming it was him based on fan research?
 
Alki David cannot confirm anything because he has got nothing to do with the MJ hologram. In his lawsuit he claims he hasn't heard about it until May 15 and now he says they recorded it there - please you are all smarter than that. He's suing Estate for using this patents - we discussed this before. so the claim that "hologram USA is behind virtual MJ" is a blatant lie. So he's just being opportunistic and taking credit for something he had absolutely no involvement and no knowledge. It's no different than Alki David having multiple news conferences and interviews about bogus DNA test and secret son of MJ. For whatever reason Alki David is the latest person who is milking Michael with lies for money.

And to be even more clear, Alki David's patent is just the projector / pepper's ghost technology. He wasn't involved in creation of Tupac hologram either. What he does is just to play / project the holograms. So he really doesn't have any first hand involvement / knowledge of creating dead celebrity holograms. CGI (tupac, avatar movie, michael) etc is done by a totally different firm than Alki's.


Let's be real here. You're more of a legal expert than I am, but mistake if I'm wrong, I thought the lawsuit stated that the company Alki inherited, were basically the parent company of Pulse Entertainment? The ones that did this "Michael" performance, I could be wrong but I thought I read that, one of the companies went bankrupt, Alki purchased what they had and whatever was left, they made Pulse Entertainment..I'm not sure on that, but I recall the lawsuit saying something of that nature. Without that though, we know they used the same tech as the Tupac hologram, we know this from cellphone footage of both performances, in which both the projection screen which projects and mirrors the image, can be seen, in both performances. He owns some part of the tech. He has access to the specific's legally. We don't, we're just going off of what we think we know as either casuals who simply don't care, or hardcore fans who pay attention to those tiny, intricate details. I don't think we can just write him off like that.

Both Pepper's Ghost tech was used to create Tupac and The Michael "holograms", again, we know this from cell phone footage. The guy probably knows what he's talking about.









So now we are saying it wasn't even Michaels head?

Where you say 'he too, made no effort to duplicate that while they were filming' makes it sound like it's officially confirmed that it was him. Have I missed something in these threads or are we just assuming it was him based on fan research?



It wasn't Michael's head. It was a CGI created image to look like Michael's face. It wasn't made using previous facial casts that Michael's done, or facial scans that he's also done for things like the Hot Toys collection.

When you're mapping a face of a person, atop the face of an impersonator, that doesn't account for the natural facial expressions the actual person did during his life time. I suppose the model would have to replicate that, he didn't. Thus all the critique's it receives.

It wasn't even Michael's head, it's a computer image made to resemble as close as can to Michael Jackson. Only thing is, outside of specific still shots, it didn't look like Michael Jackson, nor did it share the facial expressions that Michael did while performing. Why you ask? BECAUSE IT WASNT MICHAEL JACKSON.









As far as your question of "is it even confirmed it was him"..Please. Footage doesn't lie, you're telling me it's simply a coincidence that the supposed "CGI Image" (body and all) of Michael, shares the exact same dance moves as only one impersonator named Earnest Valentino, so much so to even duplicate the point to the feet during the toe stand?

The man who owns the patents to said technology says that they had to use a double. Oh yeah, we gotta write him off now as a liar and a person who has simply NO CLUE what he's talking about, simply because it fits our own personal belief. Got'cha.
 
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