Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary - Estate Announcement Page 66

[SoCav]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

and if Iam honest I can not see that it would help really the documentation. He repeats himself over and over again, kind of boring anyway and his contributions since 2009 to Michael have only worsened. So it seems really useful to add Quincy in the form of archive interviews and material in the documentary as they did in Bad 25. Thousand times better to hear Bruno Mars talking about Michael and his art. I am sure Bruce Swedien will be in it with new interviews.

I couldn't disagree more. Quincy was pivotal in the creation of the album and in helping Michael find his footing as a solo artist. If he tends to repeat himself over and over, it is up to Spike Lee to steer him in the right direction and to not include repetitious material out of the final film. Most of what Quincy has spoken about thus far with regards to Off The Wall was how he and Michael got to work together in the first place, but there are still so many questions that could be asked about the individual tracks on the album, the overall creation process, etc. As frustrating as some of the things Quincy has said (mainly since 2009) are, I just don't see how you can do a music documentary about Off The Wall and not try to include him. Same goes for Temperton, Bruce Swedien, and at least some of the session players that recorded the album.

In contrast, what is Bruno Mars gonna tell us? How much he liked listening to the album as a kid and how it has inspired him? To me that's something that would be interesting in a documentary about Bruno Mars and his musical upbringing. In a documentary about MJ's album I do not see how that is interesting beyond a short and quick segment aimed at highlighting the influence and staying power of the album.

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

What I didn't like about the Bad documentary was all the current and ''trendy'' celebrities that were interviewed. IMO interviewing people like Chris Brown and Justin Bieber was a waste of time. I don't care what they think

Especially Bieber. I like Chris Brown but I agree he did not contribute to that film at all. He didn't have anything smart to say. The same goes for Kanye and Mariah for me.

But in this new film, I would like to see some current artists (artists, not starlets!). I would love to hear from JT (his interviews about MJ for Xscape were great), Timbaland, Pharrell, Beyonce and Jay-Z (who already spoke about Off The Wall in one interview and praised it).

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

Anyone participating and/or not participating most likely does so because of their relationship to Michael and their feelings about the project, not his executors.

That is not true. Quincy is suing his Estate now so friendship that he had with MJ is irrelevant. Rod Temperton refused to give permission for Best Of Joy to MJ's Estate. He didn't care about the project, he didn't care about friendship that he had with MJ and he didn't care if the fans want to hear it or not. Of course they will not participate in a project if they have something against MJ's Estate (especially something money related - like lawsuits). Friendship they had with MJ is totally irrelevant in my opinion and history shows that (Bad 25, MICHAEL...).

 

[Annita]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

Well I think I said Bruce Swedien will add great stuff to the documentary. Rod Temperton I think is very private, sure it will be good to have him in the documentation and hoepfully he will, but I asked when did he gave interviews to Michael. I can`t remember.
Sure Quincy belongs to Off The Wall and I am sure they try to interview him, but he will refuse and if not I am really sure he will not add anything new. Maybe he is really allready kind of senil and it is one reason that Qunincy repeats himself every time with the same stuff.

Bruno Mars: I really think he did studdy of Michael and he can give a good contribution to the docu like he showed in many interviews.

 

[barbee0715]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

^^all 3 of them were in a seminar in Dubai about 2 or 3 yrs ago and they discussed OTW. I read an article about it and saw pix.
Never saw any videos though. I think it was Dubai.
Has anybody else seen this?

 

[Themidwestcowboy]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

Maybe it will be just old footage like it was in Bad25. I'm 99% sure Quincy won't be in the doc. And 90% sure that Rod would not be either. I think Bruce may be. Bruce is still cool. Both Quincy and Rod had problems with MJ and/or his Estate (lawsuits, refusal to release Best Of Joy verse...).

Something completely unrelated but I wonder if this was the reason why "Groove Of Midnight" was not released on Bad 25

I HOPE they show this clip. I probably watch this at least once a day. . Lee Daniels new show, Empire, mentions Michael or the Jacksons a few times in every episode. They're obviously a gigantic influence on him.

And if they have any contemporary artists, I think it should be Bruno Mars, Pharrell and Justin Timberlake. They're all obviously influenced by OTW.
In fact, Bruno's 'When I was your Man' is SOOML with a different melody.

Haha in last nights episode of empire Terrence Howard (who btw played one of michaels brothers in An American Dream) said this when he saw a Black beautiful woman, " Who is that Liberian Girl over there?"

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

Something completely unrelated but I wonder if this was the reason why "Groove Of Midnight" was not released on Bad 25

Yeah, maybe. I don't buy that "we couldn't find the multitracks" bulls**t. It is the only song that Rod wrote for Bad album and the last song he wrote for MJ before writing a verse for Best Of Joy.

 

[barbee0715]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

Haha in last nights episode of empire Terrence Howard (who btw played one of michaels brothers in An American Dream) said this when he saw a Black beautiful woman, " Who is that Liberian Girl over there?"

^^. Unrelated but Love the show and the references. Also always thought Terrance should have played Randy.

 

[Smooth72]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

and if Iam honest I can not see that it would help really the documentation. He repeats himself over and over again, kind of boring anyway and his contributions since 2009 to Michael have only worsened. So it seems really useful to add Quincy in the form of archive interviews and material in the documentary as they did in Bad 25. Thousand times better to hear Bruno Mars talking about Michael and his art. I am sure Bruce Swedien will be in it with new interviews.
Rod Temperton, I can not remember any IVs with him. When did he give his last interviews to Michael or anyone?

Although I like some of Bruno Mars songs. He should not be in this or any Mj doc. Only people who had a hand in his career. All these added stars of today? Why for better ratings so more people watch them? To me that does the opposit. I know he influenced all kinds of artists but who really cares what they have to say? I surely don't. Mj does not need help. Only his team please.

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

Only his team please.

Yeah, and his team stayed loyal to him! I would love to see them all, but I doubt it, especially Q and Rod.

 

[dam2040]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

Why were Katherine and Joe interviewed? These things seem to be a little biographical too, Bad seemed that way in places. I suppose it is needed however to understand where he was in the moment to do certain songs, but even then it's speculation.

 

[InvincibleMJ]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

I feel it's going to be a lot like Life of an Icon.

 

[JEMFTV]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

I feel it's going to be a lot like Life of an Icon.

Please, no :0

 

[Tygger]

That is not true. Quincy is suing his Estate now so friendship that he had with MJ is irrelevant. Rod Temperton refused to give permission for Best Of Joy to MJ's Estate. He didn't care about the project, he didn't care about friendship that he had with MJ and he didn't care if the fans want to hear it or not. Of course they will not participate in a project if they have something against MJ's Estate (especially something money related - like lawsuits). Friendship they had with MJ is totally irrelevant in my opinion and history shows that (Bad 25, MICHAEL...).

The projects you mentioned were posthumous albums which even Jerkins rejected the first time. Does Will.I.Am also dislike the executors or does he feel protective of the art he created with Michael?

Jones friendship with Michael ended after the Bad era when Michael decided to work with Riley. That has nothing to do with the Estate that did not exist then.

^^all 3 of them were in a seminar in Dubai about 2 or 3 yrs ago and they discussed OTW. I read an article about it and saw pix.
Never saw any videos though. I think it was Dubai.
Has anybody else seen this?

You are correct.

The Michael Jackson Dream Team

On 24th September 2013, fans of Michael Jackson’s music had the opportunity to hear from the multi-Grammy winning production team behind the King of Pop’s record-breaking albums, Off The Wall, Thriller and Bad. The team which included Quincy Jones, Rod Temperton and Bruce Swedien, gave insight into the experience of producing the greatest selling album of all time.

http://www.dubaimusicweek.com/Content/EMIRATES-QUINCY-JONES-SEMINARS-2013

 

[HIStory]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

Jones friendship with Michael ended after the Bad era when Michael decided to work with Riley. That has nothing to do with the Estate that did not exist then.

^ I'm pretty sure I have seen MJ doing a photoshoot with Quincy and his daughter for VIBE magazine in the mid 90s. They were still talking about each other as friends. In fact, Michael talked about Quincy with love and respect all his life. It's since MJ's death that Quincy made some hostile and disrespectful remarks about MJ. Only he knows why.

 

[Annita]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

Does Will.I.Am also dislike the executors or does he feel protective of the art he created with Michael?

Well he is kind of a hypocrisy. He gave many interviews where he said that he never wants to release the work with Michael, it would be a moneymaking thing, then he gave a interview only when Michaels mother woud begg him. Then last year he said he wanted release a song on his last albun, but he didn`t get permission from the Estate.

 

[Zakk]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

Well he is kind of a hypocrisy. He gave many interviews where he said that he never wants to release the work with Michael, it would be a moneymaking thing, then he gave a interview only when Michaels mother woud begg him. Then last year he said he wanted release a song on his last aalbun, but he didn`t get permission from the Estate.

Estate owns the vocals Will just owns the (i assume) crappy instrumentals.. they belong on a future posthumous album, but with a more genuine composition.

 

[SoCav]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

Estate owns the vocals Will just owns the (i assume) crappy instrumentals.. they belong on a future posthumous album, but with a more genuine composition.

What's more genuine than the composition Michael worked on and recorded vocals to?

 

[Zakk]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

What's more genuine than the composition Michael worked on and recorded vocals to?

Something that has genuine instruments and aren't artificially created by Will.I.Am his refined vocals belong with something that keeps hold of his integrity. I don't mean changing it completely, just giving it a more authentic aura.

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

The projects you mentioned were posthumous albums which even Jerkins rejected the first time. Does Will.I.Am also dislike the executors or does he feel protective of the art he created with Michael?

Jones friendship with Michael ended after the Bad era when Michael decided to work with Riley. That has nothing to do with the Estate that did not exist then.

Jerkins rejected because of fake Cascio tracks. will.i.am rejected because of unknown reason (probably money) because few years later he changed his mind and he said that he will release the tracks if Katherine asks him to and then again when he wanted to release I'm Dreaming on his own album.

The fact is that both Quincy Jones and Rod Temperton have money issues with the Estate. Refusal to let them use a verse for Best Of Joy came after he asked ridiculously high amount of money for using Thriller in This Is It (apparently Estate didn't even asked him to let them use the verse because they knew it would be impossible to negotiate with him). So it's nothing to do with protective of the art. It's just about the money and lawsuits prove that.

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

^ I'm pretty sure I have seen MJ doing a photoshoot with Quincy and his daughter for VIBE magazine in the mid 90s. They were still talking about each other as friends. In fact, Michael talked about Quincy with love and respect all his life. It's since MJ's death that Quincy made some hostile and disrespectful remarks about MJ. Only he knows why.

Yeah, all that. Plus this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGbZh7lcysQ

+ 2001 Special Edition interviews
+ 2001 30th anniversary (Quincy was one of the guests)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PgOLddOoZo

+ 2007 Thriller 25 interviews
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmYbX15gTCA

Also they were together in Switzerland in 2007 (at 1:14):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppge2XPLQLQ

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

Estate owns the vocals Will just owns the (i assume) crappy instrumentals.. they belong on a future posthumous album, but with a more genuine composition.

Will owns half of the music rights as he is the co-author of the songs. His instrumentals are irrelevant. Estate can always have someone record new instrumentals around MJ's vocals like they did with Xscape, but they can't release the songs without Will's permission.

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

Something that has genuine instruments and aren't artificially created

Yeah, majority of Dangerous, HIStory and almost all Invincible sucks because of that. (sarcasm)

 

[Zakk]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

Yeah, majority of Dangerous, HIStory and almost all Invincible sucks because of that. (sarcasm)

Thing is, i enjoy the way those albums were produced. I don't enjoy Will's production mentality though.

 

[Bringing Brighter Days]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

my father bought tickets for me and my brother to watch the Triumph Tour in person, it's the best tour Michael ever did in his career, many of the stage concepts and props he used for his solo tours derived from the Triumph Tour.......it was the best show he ever done

 

[HIStory]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

I never cared for Will.I.Am's music, so I'm not having my hopes high about his tracks. Anyway, Will.I.Am has nothing to do with Spike Lee's OTW documentary.

 

[Zakk]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

my father bought tickets for me and my brother to watch the Triumph Tour in person, it's the best tour Michael ever did in his career, many of the stage concepts and props he used for his solo tours derived from the Triumph Tour.......it was the best show he ever done

I sincerely hope a show from that tour will be released on Blu-Ray, but i have a feeling they will only show new scans of the snippets that were shown in ''The One'' documentary unfortunately.. one can dream though i guess..

 

[Tygger]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

Respect77, Onir, thank you, I stand corrected regarding Jones as I could only remember what they did musically. I am glad to see they did continue a personal relationship after Bad.

Michael did not participate in Jones' documentary, Listen Up!, so, it could be Jones is returning the favor. I do not know their personal feelings, however, I would not suggest that Jones has spoken negatively towards Michael only because of his executors as he has spoken negatively about Michael before his lawsuit regarding Thriller royalties. It could have been part of his grieving process as well. As Barbee0715 noted, Jones spoke about the trio of albums he co-produced with Michael in an event with Swedien and Temperton so all three do speak about those projects and in a positive manner. If they do not participate in the OTW documentary for whatever personal reasons, they spite their own legacies.

Annita, OnirMJ, Will.I.Am and Jerkins could still be considered to be protecting the art they made with Michael. They also most likely went through a grieving process which could explain the public back and forth of Will.I.Am in my view.

The fact is that both Quincy Jones and Rod Temperton have money issues with the Estate. Refusal to let them use a verse for Best Of Joy came after he asked ridiculously high amount of money for using Thriller in This Is It (apparently Estate didn't even asked him to let them use the verse because they knew it would be impossible to negotiate with him). So it's nothing to do with protective of the art. It's just about the money and lawsuits prove that.

If the bolded is true, they should be allowed funds due them. Again, if they do not participate in the OTW documentary, they spite their own legacies. They created magic and that magic is being documented in a respectful manner. I believe they should discuss their roles in the creation of that magic.

my father bought tickets for me and my brother to watch the Triumph Tour in person, it's the best tour Michael ever did in his career, many of the stage concepts and props he used for his solo tours derived from the Triumph Tour.......it was the best show he ever done

The tours Michael did with his brothers grew as they grew. They became increasingly better musically, artistically, entertainment-wise, everything one can imagine! I am hoping the Estate/Sony would release a ultimate live collection of full concert performances from each era of Michael's career starting from J5. With accompanying booklets and complete live cds (in stellar video quality I might add), it would be the ultimate collection for any fan to own.

 

[OnirMJ]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

If the bolded is true, they should be allowed funds due them. Again, if they do not participate in the OTW documentary, they spite their own legacies.

According to Birchey (a fan, member here - so it's not 100% reliable information) Rod was not even contacted because they had big problems with him about using Thriller in This Is It, apparently he requested 5 MIL $! So they just cut out the verse he wrote and moved on with the project. The song was very important to them, to be included on the album because it is one of the last MJ recorded or the last that MJ recorded that they had in their possession.

But I think it is possible that they contacted him and that he again requested some ridiculously high amount of money so they decided to proceed without the third verse.

 

[Tygger]

Re: Spike Lee announces Off The Wall Documentary

OnirMJ, just so I understand, you are saying Temperton's verse in BOJ was removed on the Michael cd, correct? I thought Thriller was sung in full in TII but, I do not remember. I would have to review that section of the film.