[Discussion] Sexual Abuse Claims Against MJ Estate - Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe

Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Isn't already time for judge to give the ruling?

I was about to ask you how the promised phone call went :lol:

Few days = 2 days, so I want the answer today, and if it doesn't come, I'm going to need phone number or email address to Judge B

He is going to have to deal with this:D
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I was about to ask you how the promised phone call went :lol:

He didn't pick up the phone, and no reply to me email :D

Ps, I don't mind waiting as long as he comes up with right decision:timer:
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Well, given that the hearing on the tohme case is happening today, it's safe to say that the ruling won't be known today. My hunch says Thursday, although it could happen before then.
Having said that, you guys need to chill. Go watch Furious 7 or something :)
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Well, given that the hearing on the tohme case is happening today, it's safe to say that the ruling won't be known today. My hunch says Thursday, although it could happen before then.
Having said that, you guys need to chill. Go watch Furious 7 or something :)

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No!
He might as well give it today before hearing.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I'm confident that the judge will allow the summary judgment as he doesn't have discretion to overturn statutory timelimits which are clearly breached.
But i don't get the arguement above about this being an unbelievable precedent,and posts about elvis and marylyn monroe being at risk or what the estate lawyer was trying to argue with the king henry example (which actually didn't make any sense). The judge is a probate judge and is just ruling on a probate code so he's only ruling about estates which are still in probate. Most estates are done and dusted in a few years, what percentage are still open decades later? The only reason wade and jimmy can sue is because technically mj's assets haven't been distributed finally to ppb and gone into their trust. But once that happens, these claims can't continue.

first of all beckloff is not just a probate judge, he also oversees civil matters. (you would see he was the judge for kardashian defamation lawsuit as well for example). As for Estate, most celebrity Estate's happen to be complex and take time to close. Furthermore in some certain situations it is possible to sue the beneficiaries - people who inherited from the deceased. That's why the Estate gave the King Henry example.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

He didn't pick up the phone, and no reply to me email :D

Ps, I don't mind waiting as long as he comes up with right decision:timer:

:yes: and one more time :yes:

Well, given that the hearing on the tohme case is happening today, it's safe to say that the ruling won't be known today. My hunch says Thursday, although it could happen before then.
Having said that, you guys need to chill. Go watch Furious 7 or something :)

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No!
He might as well give it today before hearing.

You guys are funny, bless your hearts.

Not sure there's gonna be a ruling today, much too soon. But passy, Thursday is too far off also. How about tomorrow, isn't Tuesday a good day? Just throwing my two cents. Not willing to bet anything just in case I may lose; complete coward, I know :p


On the serious side of this and I don't know if it's been discussed before, but how is it in the American system, do judges need to submit the motivation for their decision at the same time as the ruling? I seem to remember that in continental practice (meaning European of course) there can be a maximum 30 day delay between those two - the decision taking and its motivation.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Watching You Wade
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

This guy is nuts
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

This guy is nuts

Why would the Supreme Court take such a case?

A Supreme Court decision allowing e. estoppel in this fashion would impact every single Estate in the country.
I don't think they want to do that.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

What are you talking about?
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Like someone said it before... Wade is fighting for his life, he has nothing but any appeal and appeal.. and try it to get to the highest places available in court.

I am sure that such high-profile lawyers like for the Estate and for Wade... or like all the known high profile lawyers.... DO KNOW ONE ANOTHER in the business..., they are not friends, but they do know one another, so the close relationships are not unsusual BUT there is still the "mysterious" law firm representing Robson and Safechuck, the very same, afaik, that is representing Quincy Jones, isnt it?
The same law firm asked MJ Estate - in the Qs case against MJ estate for the Thriller album royalty - all the info about all the income and money reports of the estate.
So the same firm and the same lawyers want to know how much MJ estate has earned since 2009(?)
Why? To know how much they can ask for the damages for Wade?

Isnt it :censored: ?

Wegeners thoughts are acceptable, and he made some very good key points.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

What are you talking about?

I was talking about what Wagener said in that video.
That they would go to the SC and before the SC could take it they would settle.
There is no reason to believe that SC would take such a case.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I read on Topix some hater started a thread about Amy Berg who directed An Open Secret that she is the wide of Jonathan Spence.
I have no found any proof of that.

Does anyone know whether that's true or not?

another desperate and unfounded story by that crew. that documentary has nothing to do with Michael but topix trolls tried.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

still nothing?
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

just so you know - this is normal. On safechuck demurrer judge took 2 weeks to rule. I have seen judges taking longer. Normally I would have expected a decision in 2-4 weeks. the only reason a faster ruling was expected because reportedly judge said he would rule in a few days.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

just so you know - this is normal. On safechuck demurrer judge took 2 weeks to rule. I have seen judges taking longer. Normally I would have expected a decision in 2-4 weeks. the only reason a faster ruling was expected because reportedly judge said he would rule in a few days.
I'm just antsy because he DID say a few days-I was hoping he had already mentally decided.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I'm just antsy because he DID say a few days-I was hoping he had already mentally decided.

Yeah, he practically promised to us that he'll deliver ruling in few days.:giggle:
To me few days means 2 days, so it is over due:scratch:
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Oh dear...

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While we are waiting...

I just read this article and reminded me of how much Robson's lawayers tried to argue to be able to use prior allegations against MJ as a "modus operandi". Of course, in reality it's a no brainer that when we have such public allegations with every detail easily available to anyone such "patterns" prove nothing, other than the later accusers reading earlier allegations and modelling their own allegations after that.

This article speaks generally and uses Jimmy Savile's case as an example. While Savile may not be totally innocent (unlike Michael who is), I know that many people expressed scepticism about many of his alleged victims and here is why - also more generally it has to say something about the system and the hysteria surrounding such allegations. A hysteria which no doubt encourages false accusers to take advantage:

In reality, any likelihood of a “successful conviction” comes not from “real” evidence but from the fact that there is now not a jury in the land that will not convict the defendant in a case of alleged sexual abuse, particularly if the alleged victim was a child at the time of the alleged offence.

In cases of sexual abuse allegedly involving children, senior barristers and even some judges now privately admit that it has become impossible to mount an effective defence in such cases. Juries today convict on emotion rather than fact because there is no evidence other that the word of the accuser.

The police and CPS said in the case of Jimmy Savile that “…where so many people who do not know each other all say the same thing, it must be true.”


In fact, if one reads the report into Savile presented by the police and the NSPCC, it is nothing more than a list of accusations; there is no proof or evidence present at all.



In any event, this absurd statement by the police misses the point entirely.


Any reasonable person can see that, given the amount of information that was in the public domain (especially the tabloids), anyone with an agenda could have simply copied any of the well-publicised statements and gone to the police claiming to be a ‘victim’; no doubt with their bank account number in hand.


This practice of using ‘patterns of behaviour’ as supposed proof of wrongdoing is known as ‘Similar Fact Evidence’, a nasty piece of Law dreamt up in the 1980s in order to convict people of serious sexual offences where no real evidence otherwise exists.

‘Similar Fact Evidence’ is in reality probably more responsible for innocent people being sent to jail for alleged sexual offences than anything else.

That innocent people are often sent to jail is not disputed. The government itself has previously stated in Parliament it estimates up to 10,000 of those in jail – about 11% – are probably innocent.

http://www.theopinionsite.org/police-invitations-to-victims-encouraging-false-allegations/


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respect77;4088165 said:
While we are waiting...

I just read this article and reminded me of how much Robson's lawayers tried to argue to be able to use prior allegations against MJ as a "modus operandi". Of course, in reality it's a no brainer that when we have such public allegations with every detail easily available to anyone such "patterns" prove nothing, other than the later accusers reading earlier allegations and modelling their own allegations after that.

This article speaks generally and uses Jimmy Savile's case as an example. While Savile may not be totally innocent (unlike Michael who is), I know that many people expressed scepticism about many of his alleged victims and here is why - also more generally it has to say something about the system and the hysteria surrounding such allegations. A hysteria which no doubt encourages false accusers to take advantage:

http://www.theopinionsite.org/police-invitations-to-victims-encouraging-false-allegations/

It is unfortunate to compare anything about the Jimmy Savile case with Michael, imo. There were reportedly many complaints about abuse by Savile at the time they took place, but complainants were often vulnerable and in some cases eg at Broadmoor were in hospital for mental illness, often associated with criminal behaviour. The Broadmoor investigation report (link below) makes very clear that Savile had unprecedented open access to this hospital, and took advantage of that access in a largely unhindered way, with the backing of influential people (including those in government at the time). I will give a few quotes with the link below.

Also, members of Savile's family have accepted these reports and at least one member has reported being sexually assaulted at a family occasion herself.


Broadmoor hospital investigation report
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...achment_data/file/323458/Broadmoor_report.pdf

4.8 Even with such a high public profile, it was most unusual when, in 1988, Savile was given a formal management role in Broadmoor and unrestricted access to the hospital.

4.13 It is arguable that society as a whole now pays greater attention to human rights than it did in the past. It is certainly the case that more attention is paid now to patients’ rights in the NHS in general – and in mental health facilities in particular.
4.14. This increased emphasis on rights coincides with a general decline in the deference shown toward people in authority:

6.28 On the basis of what we were told consistently, we conclude that he was particularly effective both at making staff believe that through his influence and ‘friends in high places’ he had the power to have them fired, and at making patients believe that any complaint would only make their treatment worse.

1.12 On the basis of the detail and consistency of their accounts and the circumstances of the assaults, we conclude with confidence that at least five of the 11 individuals were sexually abused by Savile, and that it is more likely than not that he also sexually abused a sixth. Of these six, two (both patients) were subjected to repeated assault. We were unable to speak in detail to the other five. We assured those assaulted that we would not name them without their consent.

Jimmy Savile's Family 'Knew Of His Dark Side'

http://news.sky.com/story/1003931/jimmy-saviles-family-knew-of-his-dark-side
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

^ I did NOT compare Michael to Savile. I made it clear that Michael is innocent while Savile might be guilty of some of it. Also it was not even a "comparation". The article itself brought the example of Savile's case (not me) and the point is not to declare Savile innocent of it all, but to point out how easy it is to jump on a bandwagon and refer to some "pattern" when that so called pattern is easily available through the media and other public account so it's a no-brainer for bandwagon jumpers to model their allegations after such. An allegation in itself is not evidence. Many people making the same allegations is still not evidence, especially in cases where the accusers could easily see each other's stories and model theirs after previous accuser's stories.

What I personally think of Savile is that he is probably guilty of some of it, but probably not guilty of everything that he is accused of. I think there are bandwagoners among his accusers as well. But again, the point was not to "compare" MJ to Savile - I did NOT do that.

The point is that during that hearing in October Marzano too went on and on about MJ's supposed "modus operandi" and she insisted on bringing in the Chandler, Arvizo allegations to show "modus operandi". When in reality that does not prove anything, since those allegations are public record, so of course it would be a no-brainer for Robson and Safechuck to try to incorporate some elements from those in their allegations to try to create what looks like a "pattern". And so they include porn and alcohol and "duck butter" and other elements from Chandler/Arvizo. But when you look at it more closely even with that intent to create a "pattern" they actually fail miserably at it. One, because of greed they feel the need to up the type of acts previous accusers alleged. Second because in reality the only pattern emerging from all this shows how accusers took claims from each other and kept escalating their claims - in the order of them making allegations. But when we put their allegations in the order of how they followed each other in MJ's life it becomes a patternless mess.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

While we are waiting...

This article speaks generally and uses Jimmy Savile's case as an example. While Savile may not be totally innocent (unlike Michael who is), I know that many people expressed scepticism about many of his alleged victims and here is why - also more generally it has to say something about the system and the hysteria surrounding such allegations. A hysteria which no doubt encourages false accusers to take advantage:

http://www.theopinionsite.org/police-invitations-to-victims-encouraging-false-allegations/

I was mainly responding to this (bolded above)...it seems to me that all of Michael's (very articulate) false accusers have been believed, but many (most?) of Savile's true accusers were not (even at the time) because they were largely vulnerable, unarticulate and in some cases had criminal records. Savile selected his victims well, knowing that they would not be believed, and knowing that the authorities in the places where his most vulnerable victims resided would not only not believe them, but would likely punish them for their allegations..... Most of the press 'hysteria' in the Savile (and Janner and related cases) has been about alleged cover-ups in high places, including in the police forces, prosecution systems and central government. However, I did not mean to derail the thread so will say no more.
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Oh dear...

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in all fairness, I wouldn't go on this guys 'show' either. Silly opportunist trying to tie himself to MJ. The guy is constantly looking for his big break on the back of MJ, as if there are not enough people doing that already. Just reading that confused mess gives me a headache. Just follow one line of thought, but he seems incapable of that. Need more coffee before I watch the video Ivy posted.

is that supposed to say 'body language'?
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate


Oh, I see. The Estate, Robson and his attorney are 'working together.' Taking this to the Supreme Court? Maybe he should check how his friends, the Birthers, faired taking anything to the Supreme Court.
God, the guy is delusional. Now Weitzman shaking his head are a signal to the judge, too.

Thank God this guy left law school without a degree, imagine the damage he could do with his confused conspiracy mind. Can't be easy to live with so much paranoia inside.

As an FYI, people should stop claiming they 'translated' something just because they ran it through google translate. That wasn't a German translation in the video, that was argle garble, very much like Wagener himself.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Birther, New World Order and 9/11 conspiracy nut, yip. Pains me to see this loon attaching himself to MJ for his own need for fame and relevancy.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Most of the press 'hysteria' in the Savile (and Janner and related cases) has been about alleged cover-ups in high places, including in the police forces, prosecution systems and central government.
Also the situation in rotherham etc. Totally agree. That's why the mj fbi coverup stories were just the most toxic thing that could have been written about mj and so damaging as people are so ready to believe in cover ups. When you read about these vulnerable victims, often in care, whose stories of abuse were not believed or brushed aside and never followed up, and compare to wade and safechuck who had the red carpet laid out for them by the justice authorities, were given every single encouragement to 'tell their truth' and in fact were named as victims at the 05 trial, and still they claim they really had no idea that they were being abused and weren't ready to acknowledge it etc etc. It's such indulgent claptrap, and so offensive to the victims of the rotherahm gangs, cyril smith, saville etc.

This article speaks generally and uses Jimmy Savile's case as an example.
I agree with your point about how alleged victims can claim a modus operandi once a case is given huge publicity, but i really don't agree with some of that article.

the fact that there is now not a jury in the land that will not convict the defendant in a case of alleged sexual abuse, particularly if the alleged victim was a child at the time of the alleged offence.

In cases of sexual abuse allegedly involving children, senior barristers and even some judges now privately admit that it has become impossible to mount an effective defence in such cases. Juries today convict on emotion rather than fact because there is no evidence other that the word of the accuser.
That is completely wrong. We've had high profile cases arising out of the saville affair that have resulted in acquittals - 2 soap stars and an initial acquittal for the dj, dave lee travis, and i think it was some of rolf harris's victims that had a not guilty count. In fact the cps were under huge pressure to justify their 'operation yewtree' and bringing cases to court. I have faith in the jury stystem, that ordinary people when presented with the facts of a case and not the tabloid version can make their own sensible, fair judgments about the credibility of these stories - look at the american jury in mj's trial after the most relentless character assasination of a celebrity.
 
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Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Ugh, I had a yucky dream this morning that I checked a news website and saw the headline "CA judge sets new precedent: okays abuse claim against Michael Jackson", and the article went on about this decision clearing the way for more claims against the estate, essentially tossing out the statute of limitations. I was like, what the...?! It was really upsetting.:mat: :cry: When I woke up I was actually kind of scared for a moment that this had really happened, like maybe late yesterday when I was already asleep, so I came to this thread right away and checked and.... Wheh!! Thank God it was just a bad dream! I guess the wait is stressing out my subconscious. Over a week now... that's "a few days", isn't it?
 
Re: [Discussion] Wade Robson / James Safechuck file claim of sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Hopefully it will all end up as just a bad dream rather than a reality. I've learned the hard way to never say never when it comes to a Judge's ruling but I will be gobsmacked if he rules in Robson's favor.


Out of curiosity... Does William Wagner earn a living from interviewing people? Who the heck employs him??

Back when I was following his birther BS, WW stated on his site:

"Occupation: Exposing Government and New World Order Corruption Exposing Government Criminals who quietly work to destroy the Constitutional and Natural Rights. MSM was "in" on 911, that is why they Never discuss the 3rd NYC bldg. = 7WTC , or the BBC accidental flub up."


Which I read as "unemployed nut job." I know he was at one time soliciting donations from MJ fans.
 
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