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Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

terrell said:
I have been away for a few days because I had surgery. I am glad the Estate has filed this lawsuit. LOOK, I can care less about MJfacts, clearly those fools have issues and an agenda to keep bothering MJ (won't work). People are going to take this trash Doc apart. There is too much EVIDENCE to PROVE these liars are liars and anyone that supports them (heck even Jussie still has some supporters) but I believe the OVERALL PUBLIC aint going to buy this trash. So fi anyone on here is a 'mole for MJFACTS, keep trying to dig a ditch for Michael, you going find yourselves in that whole looking up from karma. Again, this is NOT going to be some "put out a doc and bash MJ, NO baby, put the trash out the first two days and THEN we (society) will take it apart just like Jussie was done. And it is going to look even more fooless for these who defended these fools in the media all at the expense of someone who is dead and who has been more investigated than anyone. MJ was given NO PASS by no means and he stood strong and fought and now some are trying to do it in death IT WONT WORK.
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I don't want to get into your business but I hope your recovery from your surgery is going well.. Best of luck to you!
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

does anyone have docs on hand that backs the fact Mcmanus made up the stories for financial gain? I know she signed an affidavit and all! I don't remember how it was worded or IF she actually admitted at one point.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

For the first time in a long long time I did my best telling the facts about Michael.

I was on my Xbox One in party chat and a friend of my friends joined. She knew I am a big MJ fan and she asked me when and where LN will be airing. I told her it's best not to watch it, if you can even call it a documentary. She asked me to explain it.

So I started with Robson, explained about how he denied any wrongdoing in 2005 during the trial. How he begged to be at the memorial, his chapter in the opus, his tribute shows, him not getting the Cirque role, him then trying to publish book, suing estate and losing and now this "doc". Also about how he didn't realize at 20 or so that it was abuse etc.

Also said that Robson doesn't hate him because hate gets you nowhere. To which she replied to me "you'd think that someone who had abused you, you'd hate that person for sure.". She did say she wondered with what kind of evidence they would come in LN, to which I said they present zero actual evidence. I could have explained about some accusations being based on that Victor book but that hasn't been officially confirmed yet.

I do think I'll send the two videos by Razorfist to her on Whatsapp. Either way, usually I absolutely suck at having to explain things like this, just not good at it. Same as when it's face to face. When I need to type it on forums or comment sections I have no problem.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

MIST said:
I read MJ wanted a trial but he and his lawyers wanted a criminal trial before a civil trial.The court decided the civil trial should be first. It was a huge disadvantage for MJ.It was after that the money was paid.
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Fact. Because his chances for a fair trial would have been gone because you can allow hearsay during a civil trial. The judge didn't let him have a criminal trial first and that's why he was advised to settle. They actually changed the law after that so that a criminal trial has to be first.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

terrell said:
I have been away for a few days because I had surgery. I am glad the Estate has filed this lawsuit. LOOK, I can care less about MJfacts, clearly those fools have issues and an agenda to keep bothering MJ (won't work). People are going to take this trash Doc apart. There is too much EVIDENCE to PROVE these liars are liars and anyone that supports them (heck even Jussie still has some supporters) but I believe the OVERALL PUBLIC aint going to buy this trash. So fi anyone on here is a 'mole for MJFACTS, keep trying to dig a ditch for Michael, you going find yourselves in that whole looking up from karma. Again, this is NOT going to be some "put out a doc and bash MJ, NO baby, put the trash out the first two days and THEN we (society) will take it apart just like Jussie was done. And it is going to look even more fooless for these who defended these fools in the media all at the expense of someone who is dead and who has been more investigated than anyone. MJ was given NO PASS by no means and he stood strong and fought and now some are trying to do it in death IT WONT WORK.
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All the best wishes to you!

I hope so much that you're right about that. That the public will see it, because even if we rather not have people watching it at all, fact is that tons of people will see it. But that they see it and the days that follo they will take it apart. You mentioned Jussie. But didn't the public basically just follow suit with the media because the police investigation had told them about the details?
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

aqwsz said:
I hardly understand all the stuff I read in defense of MJ so I just keep my mouth shut :-s
I 'm not intelligent enough to make a valid contribution to the defense.
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I'm not sure I understand you? :)

Look, I feel you on complex things. When I read the very complicated things on sites like Vindicatemj.wordpress.com I won't be going into that when I talk face to face with someone or over the mic/headset.

But the rather basic stuff, basically the short version of Robson from them up to now is easy. And I would like to believe that anyone in their right mind would start to become very questionable of Robson, to put it lightly.
 
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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Staffordshire Bullterrier said:
For the first time in a long long time I did my best telling the facts about Michael.

I was on my Xbox One in party chat and a friend of my friends joined. She knew I am a big MJ fan and she asked me when and where LN will be airing. I told her it's best not to watch it, if you can even call it a documentary. She asked me to explain it.

So I started with Robson, explained about how he denied any wrongdoing in 2005 during the trial. How he begged to be at the memorial, his chapter in the opus, his tribute shows, him not getting the Cirque role, him then trying to publish book, suing estate and losing and now this "doc". Also about how he didn't realize at 20 or so that it was abuse etc.

Also said that Robson doesn't hate him because hate gets you nowhere. To which she replied to me "you'd think that someone who had abused you, you'd hate that person for sure.". She did say she wondered with what kind of evidence they would come in LN, to which I said they present zero actual evidence. I could have explained about some accusations being based on that Victor book but that hasn't been officially confirmed yet.

I do think I'll send the two videos by Razorfist to her on Whatsapp. Either way, usually I absolutely suck at having to explain things like this, just not good at it. Same as when it's face to face. When I need to type it on forums or comment sections I have no problem.
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Yeah the Razorfist videos are very powerful , fans should promote them as well .
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Hope your recovering well terrell.

The reason for the settlement is letting the civil case go before the crim one. It went against mjs right to a fair trial. His defence strategy would have been shown and all sneddon would have done was sat in the court room see mjs defence and then build his case around it. Normally it is not allowed because it could lead to wrongful convictions. And years after the law was changed so civil cases couldnt go first. Sneddon of course twisted this new law as something caused by mj when infact it was mj wanting the civil case to go first in the first place
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Laurendaccio said:
Yeah the Razorfist videos are very powerful , fans should promote them as well .
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Absolutely. I love how that dude delivers his message there. The way he does that was really needed. I almost want that dude to talk for MJ at these trash ass shows, hahaha.

So far I've posted the video in comment sections on Facebook and where links were not allowed I refered to his videos.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Staffordshire Bullterrier said:
I'm not sure I understand you? :)

Look, I feel you on complex things. When I read the very complicated things on sites like Vindicatemj.wordpress.com I won't be going into that when I talk face to face with someone or over the mic/headset.

But the rather basic stuff, basically the short version of Robson from them up to now is easy. And I would like to believe that anyone in their right mind would start to become very questionable of Robson, to put it lightly.
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I usually ramble on how it all doesn't make sense. If Adrian and Wade mean what they say they had the chance to put MJ to prison in 2005. If he is the monster they say he is you should not let that chance pass... They didn't so they are fishy... It also doesn't make sense that MJ would ask those people to testify for him, if he was guilty he would not take that chance.

But whenever legal documents come up I just go blank, I'm too stupid too understand these documents in English. I don't really understand Wade's possible motivations either. He tried to sell a book but failed so then he tries the documentary. IMO it looks like he is persistent. Sorry for my ignorance if I interpret this wrong... Ah well I'm not blessed with a great mind.
In person it's a total disaster I suffer from social anxiety
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

I just watched that Sunday Night 7Plus special.. well actually watching it now... SMH! I want to say so much but what's the point? his family are NOT good at PR I will just say that.

what do we know about this Melanie Bagnall? and this 'rubba rubba' tagline will keep being repeated and the more people hear it, the more they will believe.. Do we have anything showing 'rubba' was used to non young boys? Yes I have heard this forever but I don't remember if there was evidence of that word being used for other 'type' of people?
 
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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

aqwsz said:
I usually ramble on how it all doesn't make sense. If Adrian and Wade mean what they say they had the chance to put MJ to prison in 2005. If he is the monster they say he is you should not let that chance pass... They didn't so they are fishy... It also doesn't make sense that MJ would ask those people to testify for him, if he was guilty he would not take that chance.

But whenever legal documents come up I just go blank, I'm too stupid too understand these documents in English. I don't really understand Wade's possible motivations either. He tried to sell a book but failed so then he tries the documentary. IMO it looks like he is persistent. Sorry for my ignorance if I interpret this wrong... Ah well I'm not blessed with a great mind.
In person it's a total disaster I suffer from social anxiety
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His motives seem pretty clear to me now to be honest. Money.

1 - years on end he defended him.
2 - Wanted to be at his memorial
3 - Did all kinds of tributes, always defending him
4- His chapter in the opus, full of immense praise
5 - Is denied the role for Cirque du soleil
6 - Tries to find publisher for "tell all" book, no interested parties.

7 - Sues estate for millions (but remember it's not about money, chuckle) loses.

8 - Sells MJ memorabilia to Juliens Auctions while wanting to remain anonymously. Not about money huh?

9- "documentary" happens. Claims it's not about money.

Anything for money!
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Staffordshire Bullterrier said:
His motives seem pretty clear to me now to be honest. Money.

1 - years on end he defended him.
2 - Wanted to be at his memorial
3 - Did all kinds of tributes, always defending him
4- His chapter in the opus, full of immense praise
5 - Is denied the role for Cirque du soleil
6 - Tries to find publisher for "tell all" book, no interested parties.

7 - Sues estate for millions (but remember it's not about money, chuckle) loses.

8 - Sells MJ memorabilia to Juliens Auctions while wanting to remain anonymously. Not about money huh?

9- "documentary" happens. Claims it's not about money.

Anything for money!
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Ok that's the best summary I've seen so far
and what about Safechuck?
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

KOPV said:
I just watched that Sunday Night 7Plus special.. well actually watching it now... SMH! I want to say so much but what's the point? his family are NOT good at PR I will just say that.

what do we know about this Melanie Bagnall?
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https://themichaeljacksonallegation...alph-chacon-kassim-abdool-and-adrian-mcmanus/

Part of the neverland 5. Same old story - disgruntled idiots who stole from MJ and got fired. Then sued MJ for wrongful terminatio and lost and then lost the counter-suit from MJ and was ordred to pay Michael Jackson 1.6$ million. But of course they did not, instead they failed for bankruptcy and has not paid the money to this day. Thats your shitshow right there.

Same goes for the Channel 7 show you just watched. This Melanie Bagnall offered NOTHING at all to the show. What was the BOMBSHELL? Seeing Michael Jackson riding a golf cart with a boy in his lap, and allegedly seeing one of Michaels hands close to the boys crouch. Oh WOW, she has cried and felt guilty about that for 25 years? Really? Thats laughable.

You know why she did that, (if she is not lying) Because they BELIEVE Michael was a child molester, they DO NOT KNOW he was or have seen anything that verifies their story.

They say the Arvizo trial proved they were right. And as we all know that that case was utter nonsense. To think Melanie and Adrian are crying and feeling guilt for the child molestation THEY HAVE NO IDEA if it ever happened is lunacy.

They just piece together innuendo, lies and hearsay and then FAIL to read up on the facts of the 2005 case.

Final conclusion: These people are delusional and its a disgrace they are put on TV or heard ANYWHERE AT ALL! The just "see lots of smoke" and assume there must have been a fire without considering there are no evidence at all who support their "claims".
 
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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

aqwsz said:
Ok that's the best summary I've seen so far
and what about Safechuck?
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Sites like Vindicatemj.wordpress.com have information on him, and also the ten page letter by the estate had quite a bit on Safechuck. Oh and the Razorfist video actually talks quite a bit about him too. It's in part 2.


https://youtu.be/9yTTEwBLfUQ
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Staffordshire Bullterrier said:
Which brings me to this. Before LN airs on TV I want to post a list, brief but strong and to the point with bullet points about the facts. LN is about W&S and the bullet points should be about how it all started up till now. I don't want to let my FB friends know that LN is happening (if they don't already know) but in the case that they do intend to watch it, it's good they know the facts. I was thinking of...

* Both accusers have defended MJ. Safechuck in the 90s, Robson during the 2005 trial during a extensive cross examination. He denied any kind of wrongdoing and knew damn well what the sexual questions meant.

* Robson practically begged MJ's family to be at his memorial.

* Robson has a chapter in the MJ opus book called "my mentor." (he talks about MJ being a amazing human being. But what was his EXACT wording again? Purest of humanity or something, please help me with that.

* Robson has done tribute shows, always praised MJ in interviews long after his passing.

* Wanted to have a certain role in Circque du Soleil but was denied the role.

* Robson starts going after publishers to have a book published about how according to him MJ had abused him. No publishers were interested.

* Sues the estate (what was the sum again?) and the exact reason was? It was here that he claimed he had no idea initially that it was abuse, right?

* Judge throws case out (because he was too late with it, right? And he had to admit he was lying here, didn't he?

* With all of that failed and not much of a career left he comes with LN.

What else could I add here? I needs some Safechuck stuff too.
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Thanks for the effort in making a list. I am suprised nobody has made a some kind short summary of it all. That does not seem to exist.

I just want to make a note to add to the first sentence.

Did you forget that Jimmy Safechuck signed a deposition in 2005 under declaration of perjury that Michael Jackson never had touched him? He did not testify, but signed a declaration, under oath. I was reminded of that when I saw Tom Mesereau reiterate it in an interview with 60 minutes Australia the 24th february.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

A user with the name sghworldwide has uploaded the Sunday Night Show under the videotitle "Michael Jackson What really happened behind the gates of Neverland 2019" and the 60 Min Special under the title " Michael Jackson's maid reveals sordid Neverland secrets 2019" 8 hours ago.
The views of the videos are under 250 at the moment
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Lightbringer said:
Thanks for the effort in making a list. I am suprised nobody has made a some kind short summary of it all. That does not seem to exist.

I just want to make a note to add to the first sentence.

Did you forget that Jimmy Safechuck signed a deposition in 2005 under declaration of perjury that Michael Jackson never had touched him? He did not testify, but signed a declaration, under oath. I was reminded of that when I saw Tom Mesereau reiterate it in an interview with 60 minutes Australia the 24th february.
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Yeah, while going into comment sections on YouTube and Facebook I was constantly in need of a summary of very important things, because I can't just reply to anyone with just Razorfist videos. Some people want to see a brief summary. My hope is that when they see those bullet points that they think twice before condemning him while/if they intend to watch LN.

Same with the woman I spoke to on Xbox Live this evening. I told her all that about Robson and a bit about Safechuck too. I then sent her the two Razorfist videos and told her she really should watch this before watching LN. It was no use telling her it's best not to watch it because she's going to watch it for sure. She loves documentaries and while we don't see it as one, it seems she does. She thanked me for the videos and promised me she will watch them first.

As for what you said about Mesereau, I had actually forgotten about that. That is damn good of him to have brought that up. If he can read up on Robson too and next time he's interviewed he can bring all of that up too.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

ManBehindTheMirrOr - Dona said:
A user with the name sghworldwide has uploaded the Sunday Night Show under the videotitle "Michael Jackson What really happened behind the gates of Neverland 2019" and the 60 Min Special under the title " Michael Jackson's maid reveals sordid Neverland secrets 2019" 8 hours ago.
The views of the videos are under 250 at the moment
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This is a really good moment to head into the comment section there and post the facts and if people rather watch a video... hate to sound like a broken record but the Razorfist videos are the best to post then.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Staffordshire Bullterrier said:
This is a really good moment to head into the comment section there and post the facts and if people rather watch a video... hate to sound like a broken record but the Razorfist videos are the best to post then.
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I always post informations and my LN video collection which includes Razorfists videos:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLIKkIBznNo7r1sS6oTym7X9-Zoq3LcS4n

And about the Maid is this the best video I could find:

https://youtu.be/bYB5QxbFdqI

Which is in also in the collection.

Were Wade & James and under otath in 1993.
Was James interviewed in 1993 by the police?

@ Lightbringer you did an stunning amazing work in the last days. Thank you veeeery much!
The E-mail is very good!
 
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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

ManBehindTheMirrOr - Dona said:
I always post informations and my LN video collection which includes Razorfists videos:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLIKkIBznNo7r1sS6oTym7X9-Zoq3LcS4n

And about the maid is this the best video I could find:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLIKkIBznNo7r1sS6oTym7X9-Zoq3LcS4
Which is in also in the collection.

Were Wade & James and under otath in 1993.
Was James interviewed in 1993 by the police?

@ Lightbringer you did an stunning amazing work in the last days. Thank you veeeery much!
The E-mail is very good!
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And what gets me, does these fools think people are not going to back and pull video even from the 2005 court trail in what all they said. sorry but we no long live in a day where we have to depend on the media to keep documents and testimony to print out the truth about these liars.
My brother in law did not even know Wade did the tribute with Janet on the MTV and like he said "that guy must think everyone is going to be stupid". I told him that is what these liars are banking on.​
 
(((Julien’s Auctions, who handled an auction of Jackson memorabilia in 2011, responded to a few fans questioning the validity of the items Robson burned. The auction house responded by saying, “Wade consigned his collection to us directly. He was the person who we paid when we sold his collection. He needed the money.”)))

And there is the rumb. Now, even Julien Auction can testify to this. Wade came with his lies in May 2013 and then got James to join him in his lies.​
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

KOPV said:
I don't want to get into your business but I hope your recovery from your surgery is going well.. Best of luck to you!
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I am doing well just still in a little pain. But I am back in the fight and trying to catch up since President day.
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

aqwsz said:
I can't handle it anymore. Why is the world like this? I feel very down about it all. I should never have made an account here, I knew it would be too much for me soon enough.
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Honey, you will be ok. Remember, we are supporting one of the biggest Entertainers in the world who has become a money machine for people even in death. No time to bend now, facts are on our side and the media can not ignore no more or there will be outrage and call them out as well and they do not like the term "fake media".
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Moderator Announcement:

Please keep comments in this thread focused firmly on the topic. Also, we do NOT, under any circumstances, want to see members questioning the heart of other members and intimating that they are not a real fan or worse, from MJ Facts! The "You Aren't a True Fan" CARD will not be played on this forum....especially against someone who is a new member. We welcome new members who are searching for solace, reassurance and comfort, in these difficult times. Everyone has a right to be treated with respect.

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Thank you, all, for your co-operation and your attention in this matter. Please continue.


~Love Lives Forever~
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Staffordshire Bullterrier said:
All the best wishes to you!

I hope so much that you're right about that. That the public will see it, because even if we rather not have people watching it at all, fact is that tons of people will see it. But that they see it and the days that follo they will take it apart. You mentioned Jussie. But didn't the public basically just follow suit with the media because the police investigation had told them about the details?
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No, the pubic followed him for hate for Trump and yes hate crimes are up in America. He was seen with a scar on his face and a letter that he claimed was mailed to him (This is what u call "playing up your lie with items). Jussie gathered pity and many including some media outlets like the Guardian, New York Times, Washington post rush to judge. Amazing after a week, it was the people in the Chicago areas started questioning his story. What he was claiming in the police report did not add up to where these people live. Jussie got mad because that started getting attention on urban radio and the out. Then he did the interview with Ms. Robins on GMA and did a "CONVINCING" and "POWERFUL" anger for anyone to think he would lie about something so serious. Cops were still investigating. WELL, as we now know, Jussie SET IT ALL UP to further his CAREER and his hate for Trump. Now, it all getting expose. The guys he hired lucky was caught on tape in the store and everything was traced (and more evidence is coming out showing HE LIED). This case has put everyone here on blast from polictians, the media, etc who love to rush to judge just to be the first to sell a story while not knowing the FACTS in a case and ready to judge people. In America, we are on blast and everyone is caustion about judging these stories now. On 103.9 here, one DJ host admitted (as I told u all which will happen) "when this LN comes out, we will ANALYSYS IT". I am ready for this trash to come out now.
 
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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

@ terrell

Sorry with the good video about the maid I ment this one:


I corected it now in the post.
 
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Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

KOPV said:
I just watched that Sunday Night 7Plus special.. well actually watching it now... SMH! I want to say so much but what's the point? his family are NOT good at PR I will just say that.

what do we know about this Melanie Bagnall? and this 'rubba rubba' tagline will keep being repeated and the more people hear it, the more they will believe.. Do we have anything showing 'rubba' was used to non young boys? Yes I have heard this forever but I don't remember if there was evidence of that word being used for other 'type' of people?
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Look in the liner notes of vince. All gone through in the trial. Old news and sneddon was made to look like an idiot again!
 
Re: Sundance Festival 2019 - Controversial MJ Documentary "Leaving Neverland"

Trolls have been leaving comments on Michael's FB page. Before this madness I never saw any trolls posting comments on there, so while this is going on they're probably jumping on his page because they know they'll rile up Michael's fans. Who knows, maybe they're those same people from that WR supporters group. I reported a couple of their comments for harassment, not that Facebook will do anything about it.
 
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