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Thriller 40th Anniversary

zinniabooklover said:
Cannot find that interview I mentioned. Giving up. But am posting this MJJC Q&A with Steve Barron from 2015 as an FYI - it might be new for some people.

26m 33s

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Interesting! Thanks for posting this. So this Q&A was conducted a couple of years later than the interview I referenced... He gets asked pretty much the same question: Can the BJ music video be released in high definition?

His answer:
"Yeah, the high-resolution scan... Well, I've still got a 1-inch master tape of Billie Jean in a closet somewhere (...) and one day it would be great to get that put on digital and make sure it's as close to the first generation as possible."

So it looks like not much has changed between 2009-2015. That master tape would still be SD, and who knows how degraded considering he keeps it at home.

I wonder if they managed to find anything since? It's been 8 years. Doesn't seem likely. If they had ANYTHING, even 30 secs of film reels, it would have been featured in the Thriller 40 documentary.
 
I can't for the life of me figure out why throw it away...& where are the master tapes for dstyge & rwy... nobody ever mentions them. Spike Lee had rock with you looking pretty damn good on the otw35 doc
 
While I enjoy the HD experience of thriller I still don't see why everything now needs to be in HD. It is not THAT important, so if the upgrade is not possible then so be it, it is not a game changer imo.
 
Dorian said:
Michael was pretty careless when he was storing stuff…
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Question: Where was the vault (talking about the video vault really) exactly located? I heard in a Warners lot (something like that), was MJ's video material stored at Neverland? (did it get lost in that raid?) I also heard that Michael had several rentals and warehouses filled with his stuff, is that true? Where are all of his video material? (Talking about concerts, arrival footage, home videos, hotel footage, rehearsal footage) where is it? No way hours and hours of footage like that is just lost.. Where's his masters? Did he film everything? What about copies?
 
femi said:
Question: Where was the vault (talking about the video vault really) exactly located? I heard in a Warners lot (something like that), was MJ's video material stored at Neverland? (did it get lost in that raid?) I also heard that Michael had several rentals and warehouses filled with his stuff, is that true? Where are all of his video material? (Talking about concerts, arrival footage, home videos, hotel footage, rehearsal footage) where is it? No way hours and hours of footage like that is just lost.. Where's his masters? Did he film everything? What about copies?
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as @Dorian said, Michael was careless with a lot of his items....engineers knew not to give Michael a master tape because he would lose it.....most of his footage could be at Hayvenhurst, various warehouses that the estate doesn't feel like going through or simply with the people he worked with.....he filmed a huge aspect of his life [late 70's to mid 80's might be what most footage contains]
 
BlackAnon said:
as @Dorian said, Michael was careless with a lot of his items....engineers knew not to give Michael a master tape because he would lose it.....most of his footage could be at Hayvenhurst, various warehouses that the estate doesn't feel like going through or simply with the people he worked with.....he filmed a huge aspect of his life [late 70's to mid 80's might be what most footage contains]
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Michael didn't seem to have any proper system to store or catalog things.

He famously didn't have the multitrack for Blood on the Dance Floor, and after trying to recreate it in 1997 and not being satisfied with the results, he just overdubbed the mixdown he had on a tape. There was also a story, told by Matt Forger I believe, about Michael losing the multitracks to Scared of the Moon almost immediately after it was recorded. I know for a fact that it was the same with Throwing Your Life Away -- he worked with a cassette rip (no multitrack) and did overdubs in 2008/2009.

A lot of footage is with the people who filmed it. Most from the 90s/early 2000s is with Hamid Moslehi, Michael's personal videographer. Rodney Jerkins apparently has a couple hours worth of studio footage from the Invincible sessions. Barry Gibb's son has a lot of studio footage too, both from the Eaten Alive sessions and from 2002. Michael Amir Williams had the Vogue/Ebony photoshoots from 2007 filmed in HD and that footage was sold to a documentary maker who never released it. Brett Ratner has some cool stuff. Studio staff like Sundberg will have some interesting things... Dieter Wiesner has tons and made a documentary with some of it (VERY cool if you've never seen it)...

in other words, it's super scattered and borderline impossible to track down unless they had someone working on it full-time for a couple years.
 
femi said:
Question: Where was the vault (talking about the video vault really) exactly located? I heard in a Warners lot (something like that), was MJ's video material stored at Neverland? (did it get lost in that raid?) I also heard that Michael had several rentals and warehouses filled with his stuff, is that true? Where are all of his video material? (Talking about concerts, arrival footage, home videos, hotel footage, rehearsal footage) where is it? No way hours and hours of footage like that is just lost.. Where's his masters? Did he film everything? What about copies?
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Slightly off topic, but did anyone ever created a scale model/maquette of the Neverland Ranch? I would love to be able to visualize all the rooms/studio etc
 
Alec said:
Michael didn't seem to have any proper system to store or catalog things.

He famously didn't have the multitrack for Blood on the Dance Floor, and after trying to recreate it in 1997 and not being satisfied with the results, he just overdubbed the mixdown he had on a tape. There was also a story, told by Matt Forger I believe, about Michael losing the multitracks to Scared of the Moon almost immediately after it was recorded. I know for a fact that it was the same with Throwing Your Life Away -- he worked with a cassette rip (no multitrack) and did overdubs in 2008/2009.
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That explains why the 2010 remix of TYLA was only overdubbed. Maybe someone else who worked on the track has the multitrack for it?
 
filmandmusic said:
While I enjoy the HD experience of thriller I still don't see why everything now needs to be in HD. It is not THAT important, so if the upgrade is not possible then so be it, it is not a game changer imo.
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It was always meant to be important. It simply wasn't possible at the time, the industry has been working towards this forever. Otherwise we'd still be on analog and CRTs.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
It was always meant to be important. It simply wasn't possible at the time, the industry has been working towards this forever. Otherwise we'd still be on analog and CRTs.
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True I guess but depending on age it is not that important. My grandparents didn't mind watching black & white tv either lol
But I get it.
 
regarding T40 documentary:

this is yet another example of how the MJ estate is not transparent at all and how they don't give a damn about us.
It's mid April.. Not a single word of the T40 doc..

If they actually would give a damn about us they would make a post apologising and telling why it's so delayed..
It's literally 5 minutes to make a post..

I was really ready for that documentary...
now its almost forgotten
 
The MJ musical has made 1.7 million average each week this year, at this rate it is on pace to have have made 64 million by the end of the year putting it's revenue up to 167 million by the end of 2023. At this rate it would be 25th all time with only 800 or so performances. And that's assuming ticket prices don't recieve a huge spike which could make it even higher.
 
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Didnt MJ have an archivist? At least in the 80s/90s? Hopefully the Billie Jean Master is just misplaced (like the Bad tour film 🤞🙏) and not tossed. It's a shame that it was just "standard practice" to throw away masters after being edited to tape.
Hopefully we get some HD Billie Jean scenes in the doc.......if it ever actually gets released lol
 
Robbsaber01 said:
Didnt MJ have an archivist? At least in the 80s/90s?
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Yes. Karen Langford. No idea if she's still doing the job or if someone new has taken over. I saw a video clip ages ago where some tv reporter went to one of the warehouses where Michael's stuff is stored. For me, it raised more questions than it answered about how his material archives are being managed.

Robbsaber01 said:
Hopefully the Billie Jean Master is just misplaced (like the Bad tour film 🤞🙏) and not tossed.
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This is what worries me. A well-run archive should mean that this sort of thing doesn't happen - or hardly ever. No archive is perfect and I'm not criticising Karen Langford bc I don't know how much anyone actually listens to her. It's not unusual for archivists to give their professional opinion on how stuff should be managed and then they get ignored. So it's hard to know what's really happening.

If the tapes were stored and managed separately from all the other stuff - costumes etc - that would be fine. That would probably be better, actually. That said, maybe Michael never legally owned that material so the masters wouldn't be part of his own archives. If it's a question of legal ownership, surely that's a reason to at least keep an accurate database of everything, where is it, who owns what, can it be accessed for use on future projects.

Robbsaber01 said:
It's a shame that it was just "standard practice" to throw away masters after being edited to tape.
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I find this so hard to believe. It literally makes no sense. :(

Robbsaber01 said:
Hopefully we get some HD Billie Jean scenes in the doc.......if it ever actually gets released lol
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:ROFLMAO:
 
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Robbsaber01 said:
Didnt MJ have an archivist? At least in the 80s/90s? [ ... ]
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Sorry, mate! You pushed one of my buttons, lol. Just found this comment on an old thread:

ivy said:
I don't think Karen Langford was Michael's archive manager back in the day. She happens to be a paralegal that works for Branca and handled a lot of Michael's business and legal affairs in that capacity. It seems in her current position with the MJ Estate, she also became the one that's responsible with the archiving process.
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If that is true, if Karen Langford wasn't a professional archivist, that would explain a LOT. To me, at least.

I need to go and lie down!
 
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zinniabooklover said:
Sorry, mate! You pushed one of my buttons, lol. Just found this comment on an old thread:


If that is true, if Karen Langford wasn't a professional archivist, that would explain a LOT. To me, at least.

I need to go and lie down!
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Ah, so she was only hired because she was Branca's friend, not because she was good at perserving things. What more can I expect from a greedy lawyer like Branca?
 
SeriousFX said:
Ah, so she was only hired because she was Branca's friend,
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Tbh, I have no idea and I'm sick of the whole subject, lol. It's so flaming confusing. :ROFLMAO:

SeriousFX said:
not because she was good at perserving things.
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I'm not convinced that 'preserving' Michael's material archives is much of a priority. If the person looking after the contents of the warehouse is not a qualified archivist that's the only conclusion I can come to. Really, really hope I'm wrong but not feeling confident about any of this.

SeriousFX said:
What more can I expect from a greedy lawyer like Branca?
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I found an interesting document - presumably legit - about Karen Langford working as a paralegal and having a connection to Michael and John Branca. But the 60 Minutes tv programme (that did the visit to Michael's warehouse) calls her an archivist plus we have this:

MJbr2 said:
Karen is credited as archivist in one of the MTV docs about the Bad Tour iirc. That's weird if she wasn't really.
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I think she wore different 'hats' depending on her required duties on different days. It would not surprise me if they dumped the job of archivist onto someone with no proper professional qualifications. It would not be the first time that happened. Anyway, that document:

www.scribd.com

Witness Statement of Karen Langford | PDF | Michael Jackson | Music Industry

JOHN BRANCA VS HTWF
www.scribd.com www.scribd.com

Haven't read this in detail. Seems to be about merchandise being ripped off, as far as I can tell. If it's legit, it's Karen Langford stating that she worked as a paralegal for 29 years. See Section 1 for that; mentions Michael.

Then there is this:

"Karen Langford was friends with Michael Jackson and worked with him from 1981 until his death. She’s now the archivist for the Jackson estate. There are rows and rows, floor to ceiling, of Jackson’s possessions, most of it never seen publicly since he died. This warehouse is 20,000 square feet. Every inch of it is full. There are antiques and video games from Neverland ranch, his Grammys…"

Don't wanna post the link bc it's another MJ online thing. Just Google "karen langford mj archivist" and it will come up. There are quotes from KL, also John Branca and Zack O'Malley Greenburg.

The entire situation is ridiculous and, since we're talking about BJ masters, presumably it's the record company that needs to step up since they must be the legal owners of the master tapes. I think that's right. I'm no expert on any of this. 🤷‍♀️
 
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MJbr2 said:
I'm sure MJ had a deal to own the masters of his videos.
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Hm, fair point. That does ring a bell, now you mention it. Although, if the record company paid for the video shoot, wouldn't they own the masters? god, I'm confused, lol. I'm gonna leave the convo to you guys, my brain is mashed potato! I have nothing useful to contribute to this discussion. :D
 
zinniabooklover said:
Hm, fair point. That does ring a bell, now you mention it. Although, if the record company paid for the video shoot, wouldn't they own the masters? god, I'm confused, lol. I'm gonna leave the convo to you guys, my brain is mashed potato! I have nothing useful to contribute to this discussion. :D
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You do have a lot to contribute, it's not a discussion with only one person, right?

As far as I remember, at least Thriller is owned by Michael since he paid for it. But again, why are the 35mm negs of Beat It with the Estate then if Sony (Epic) paid for production?
 
MJbr2 said:
You do have a lot to contribute, it's not a discussion with only one person, right?
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Again, fair point!

MJbr2 said:
As far as I remember, at least Thriller is owned by Michael since he paid for it.
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Yeah, that would be his property outright. At least, I assume so.

MJbr2 said:
But again, why are the 35mm negs of Beat It with the Estate then if Sony (Epic) paid for production?
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Good question. These are the things I just don't understand (Gary Numan, soz!). There are parts of Michael's story that I find so confusing. I know Michael was a bit chaotic with this type of stuff but, tbf, his job is to be the musical genius. Other people should be taking care of the admin.
 
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Do people still listen to the demos on disc 2? Ngl, The Toy and Who Do You Know are the only songs I go back to, the rest I didn't give much of a thought after the album's release.
 
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