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The main and the only problem of This Is It tour was lack of "Invincible" content?

Richard76 said:
You are damn wrong, my friend. Set list actually is pretty good:
WBSS
Don’t stop ‘till you get enough
Rock with you
TDCAU
Human nature
Stranger in Moscow/YANA
Smooth criminal
The way you make me feel
I just can’t stop loving you
Dangerous
Dirty Diana
Beat it
Thriller
Earth song
Heal the world
Black or white
Billie Jean
Man in the mirror
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I disagree.

I don't think the setlist for This Is It was good. It was very predictable and a copy and paste of his previous tours. The only surprise addition was the inclusion of Dirty Diana. There wasn't a single song on the setlist that Michael had never done live before. It was quite underwhelming.
 
People didn't pay for random new music they don't know though. 90 percent of the people who went to the concert were super fans but many of them would have left the concert mega fans but he needed to play his best work.
 
filmandmusic said:
Again off topic but wikipedia has this for the HIStory tour

If this is true and not made up wikipedia style then those possible rehearsal tapes include some interesting stuff!
This makes state of shock rehearsed for the Victor6 tour and HIStory tour
But you know what I don’t believe it one bit lol
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I can believe that Man In The Mirror, She's Out of My Life, Jam and Will You Be There were considered for History Tour, as they were performed at the Royal Brunei concert which took place two months before the start of the History Tour. I can also also believe that Childhood & 2 Bad were considered for inclusion. But I very much doubt that Michael thought of performing Dirty Diana and State of Shock (lol) during the History Tour.
 
Nite Line said:
I disagree.

I don't think the setlist for This Is It was good. It was very predictable and a copy and paste of his previous tours. The only surprise addition was the inclusion of Dirty Diana. There wasn't a single song on the setlist that Michael had never done live before. It was quite underwhelming.
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I think that's easy to say thinking about it vicariously. Being there, in person, unless you're like a repeat tour attendee, you're just gonna be happy to be there. Nothing to do with what you're saying I'm sure.
 
Nite Line said:
I disagree.

I don't think the setlist for This Is It was good. It was very predictable and a copy and paste of his previous tours. The only surprise addition was the inclusion of Dirty Diana. There wasn't a single song on the setlist that Michael had never done live before. It was quite underwhelming.
Click to expand...

They were reimagining the songs and adding new elements - him jumping throw a window on Smooth Criminal, coming out of a spider in Thriller, 3D thriller, the burning bed in Dirty Diana, the plane in Man in the Mirror, rearrangement of Dangerous.

Die hard fans seem to think these shows were only about themselves. The vast majority of people had not seen a Michael Jackson concert LIVE so there was no point him coming in with some obscure tracklisting of songs most people don't know. It may be your 50th concert, but to most fans, it's their first. Most people going to those shows don't know Invincible and it wasn't even Michael's place to force it on them.

Seriously though, could you imagine being a casual Michael Jackson fan who knows the 10 most popular songs he's done, sitting there listening to Invincible. It would have been quite perplexing. You also would have probably given the show bad reviews. Many die hard fans don't live in the real world and don't have the ability to even empathize with most normal people. This Is It was about bringing Michael's best hits to the stage and that is exactly what it was shaping up to do.

Could he have snuck a few surprises in? Sure. But when you've got a set time limit (2 hours I believe), you want to make the most of that time. You don't need to spend 20 minutes of that confusing half of your audience.

Make no mistake, This Is It would have been an absolute "vibe" (as the kids would say), from start to finish. You would have walked away from the show feeling like you'd seen something truly special.
 
Hurley509 said:
They were reimagining the songs and adding new elements - him jumping throw a window on Smooth Criminal, coming out of a spider in Thriller, 3D thriller, the burning bed in Dirty Diana, the plane in Man in the Mirror, rearrangement of Dangerous.

Die hard fans seem to think these shows were only about themselves. The vast majority of people had not seen a Michael Jackson concert LIVE so there was no point him coming in with some obscure tracklisting of songs most people don't know. It may be your 50th concert, but to most fans, it's their first. Most people going to those shows don't know Invincible and it wasn't even Michael's place to force it on them.

Seriously though, could you imagine being a casual Michael Jackson fan who knows the 10 most popular songs he's done, sitting there listening to Invincible. It would have been quite perplexing. You also would have probably given the show bad reviews. Many die hard fans don't live in the real world and don't have the ability to even empathize with most normal people. This Is It was about bringing Michael's best hits to the stage and that is exactly what it was shaping up to do.

Could he have snuck a few surprises in? Sure. But when you've got a set time limit (2 hours I believe), you want to make the most of that time. You don't need to spend 20 minutes of that confusing half of your audience.

Make no mistake, This Is It would have been an absolute "vibe" (as the kids would say), from start to finish. You would have walked away from the show feeling like you'd seen something truly special.
Click to expand...
You are damn right my friend
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
I think that's easy to say thinking about it vicariously. Being there, in person, unless you're like a repeat tour attendee, you're just gonna be happy to be there. Nothing to do with what you're saying I'm sure.
Click to expand...
Of course, I understand that being at a live concert in person is a completely different experience.

But sadly, I can only judge the setlist from what I see on YouTube from the comforts of my bedroom.
 
Meanwhile Bruce Spingsteen plays 3 hour shows and not only with songs coming from born in the usa or the river and I never heard his shows getting bad reviews, on the contrary!

You all underestimate the audience!
 
Hurley509 said:
They were reimagining the songs and adding new elements - him jumping throw a window on Smooth Criminal, coming out of a spider in Thriller, 3D thriller, the burning bed in Dirty Diana, the plane in Man in the Mirror, rearrangement of Dangerous.

Die hard fans seem to think these shows were only about themselves. The vast majority of people had not seen a Michael Jackson concert LIVE so there was no point him coming in with some obscure tracklisting of songs most people don't know. It may be your 50th concert, but to most fans, it's their first. Most people going to those shows don't know Invincible and it wasn't even Michael's place to force it on them.

Seriously though, could you imagine being a casual Michael Jackson fan who knows the 10 most popular songs he's done, sitting there listening to Invincible. It would have been quite perplexing. You also would have probably given the show bad reviews. Many die hard fans don't live in the real world and don't have the ability to even empathize with most normal people. This Is It was about bringing Michael's best hits to the stage and that is exactly what it was shaping up to do.

Could he have snuck a few surprises in? Sure. But when you've got a set time limit (2 hours I believe), you want to make the most of that time. You don't need to spend 20 minutes of that confusing half of your audience.

Make no mistake, This Is It would have been an absolute "vibe" (as the kids would say), from start to finish. You would have walked away from the show feeling like you'd seen something truly special.
Click to expand...
I don’t doubt that This Is It was going to be amazing.

I just hope that the setlist wasn’t so predictable. I understand the need to perform the biggest hits, but Michael could have performed songs that he hadn’t performed previously. Songs like PYT, Who Is It, Lady In My Life, Liberian Girl etc could have been performed and I won’t call them obscure songs. I doubt if Michael decided to perform PYT, people in the audience would have not recognised the song.
 
While I think Michael was reimaging songs, I don't think he was trying to reinvent the wheel. The songs he chose already have choreography to them. They're safe, tried and true options. He certainly was looking to portray them in slightly different ways but you will note there doesn't appear to be an entirely new dance sequence. You're getting the Motown performance, Beat It on the Cherry Picker, Michael leaving the stadium after Man in the Mirror in some sort of aerial way. These are iconic moments in a Michael Jackson show.

As for the songs without choreography, which ones would you reasonably replace for any of the other songs listed: Man in the mirror? Heal the World? Stranger in Moscow? Human Nature?

I think Michael was looking to take somethings that already exist and make them better. I don't think he wanted to take something he'd never (or rarely) performed and have to start from scratch.

Anyway, I think the setlist was basically perfect.
 
Nite Line said:
I don’t doubt that This Is It was going to be amazing.

I just hope that the setlist wasn’t so predictable. I understand the need to perform the biggest hits, but Michael could have performed songs that he hadn’t performed previously. Songs like PYT, Who Is It, Lady In My Life, Liberian Girl etc could have been performed and I won’t call them obscure songs. I doubt if Michael decided to perform PYT, people in the audience would have not recognised the song.
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I can't even imagine that.
 
filmandmusic said:
Meanwhile Bruce Spingsteen plays 3 hour shows and not only with songs coming from born in the usa or the river and I never heard his shows getting bad reviews, on the contrary!

You all underestimate the audience!
Click to expand...
He's fantastic live, I'm not a big fan myself but the guy is a legend.
I took my dad to see him about 5 years ago and he was brilliant. My dad's only very minor complaint was he wished Bruce had played a few more fan favourites, but you can't really complain about a 3 hour set.
 
SmoothCriminal1995 said:
He's fantastic live, I'm not a big fan myself but the guy is a legend.
I took my dad to see him about 5 years ago and he was brilliant. My dad's only very minor complaint was he wished Bruce had played a few more fan favourites, but you can't really complain about a 3 hour set.
Click to expand...
He surely played born in the usa, thunder road, dancing in the dark or born to run?
 
filmandmusic said:
He surely played born in the usa, thunder road, dancing in the dark or born to run?
Click to expand...
2023
Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band Madison Square Garden Set List
“No Surrender”
“Ghosts”
“Prove It All Night”
“Letter to You”
“The Promised Land”
“Out in the Street”
“Candy’s Room”
“Kitty’s Back”
“Nightshift”
“Trapped”
“The E Street Shuffle”
“Johnny 99”
“Last Man Standing”
“Backstreets”
“Because the Night”
“She’s the One”
“Wrecking Ball”
“The Rising”
“Badlands”
“Jungleland”
“Thunder Road”
“Born to Run”
“Rosalita (Come Out Tonight)”
“Glory Days”
“Dancing in the Dark”
“Tenth Avenue Freeze-Out”
“I’ll See You in My Dreams”

www.rollingstone.com

The Other Eras Tour: 9 Thoughts on Bruce Springsteen at Madison Square Garden

Here's what we learned about Bruce Springsteen's 2023 tour with the E Street Band from their homecoming show.
www.rollingstone.com www.rollingstone.com

 
Last edited:
filmandmusic said:
He surely played born in the usa, thunder road, dancing in the dark or born to run?
Click to expand...
If I remember rightly, he didn't do Born In The USA, Thunder Road, Streets of Philadelphia, I'm On Fire, Hungry Heart or Cover Me (my favourite) he was brilliant though, rightly called The Boss.
 
love1sfatal said:
wasnt there a thing with This Is It that fans could vote online for what songs they wanted to hear on that tour? idk maybe im just making it up but if im not then thats kinda the fans' fault lmao, id love to hear some of em Invincible songs This is It-ified tho
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Yes there was., and the songs fans voted for that made it into the top 10 were the songs Michael would usually perform anyway (Billie Jean. Smooth Criminal etc). But Dirty Diana was in the top 10 and that was going to be peformed so I think some attention was being made to what the fans wanted.
 
zinniabooklover said:
2023
Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band Madison Square Garden Set List
“No Surrender”
“Ghosts”
“Prove It All Night”
“Letter to You”
“The Promised Land”
“Out in the Street”
“Candy’s Room”
“Kitty’s Back”
“Nightshift”
“Trapped”
“The E Street Shuffle”
“Johnny 99”
“Last Man Standing”
“Backstreets”
“Because the Night”
“She’s the One”
“Wrecking Ball”
“The Rising”
“Badlands”
“Jungleland”
“Thunder Road”
“Born to Run”
“Rosalita (Come Out Tonight)”
“Glory Days”
“Dancing in the Dark”
“Tenth Avenue Freeze-Out”
“I’ll See You in My Dreams”

www.rollingstone.com

The Other Eras Tour: 9 Thoughts on Bruce Springsteen at Madison Square Garden

Here's what we learned about Bruce Springsteen's 2023 tour with the E Street Band from their homecoming show.
www.rollingstone.com www.rollingstone.com

Click to expand...
I realy don't know any of his songs, but I am going to see him July 13th in Denmark. I am sure it's going to be a fine concert.
 
The voting system was singles based anyway? No album tracks, aside from Dangerous maybe, which basically is a single at this rate.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
The voting system was singles based anyway? No album tracks, aside from Dangerous maybe, which basically is a single at this rate.
Click to expand...
Dangerous song was just too lucky (read my thread about that), and it was Michael's favourite by the way
 
Hurley509 said:
While I think Michael was reimaging songs, I don't think he was trying to reinvent the wheel. The songs he chose already have choreography to them. They're safe, tried and true options. He certainly was looking to portray them in slightly different ways but you will note there doesn't appear to be an entirely new dance sequence. You're getting the Motown performance, Beat It on the Cherry Picker, Michael leaving the stadium after Man in the Mirror in some sort of aerial way. These are iconic moments in a Michael Jackson show.

As for the songs without choreography, which ones would you reasonably replace for any of the other songs listed: Man in the mirror? Heal the World? Stranger in Moscow? Human Nature?

I think Michael was looking to take somethings that already exist and make them better. I don't think he wanted to take something he'd never (or rarely) performed and have to start from scratch.

Anyway, I think the setlist was basically perfect.
Click to expand...
For the 'This Is It' shows, Michael Jackson was stuck on the past also when it came to his looks by bringing back the curls.

The singer even brought back (for those shows) another of his old relics, i.e., the white tape on the tips of his fingers.

His dance moves/routines apparently were going to be the same (as in the past) but slightly modified in order for him to be able to execute them given his older age and failing health in 2009/2010.

In any case, one of the very few new things (of those shows) were the visual aspects/graphics but Michael Jackson had no involvement in their creation.
 
mj_frenzy said:
For the 'This Is It' shows, Michael Jackson was stuck on the past also when it came to his looks by bringing back the curls.

The singer even brought back (for those shows) another of his old relics, i.e., the white tape on the tips of his fingers.

His dance moves/routines apparently were going to be the same (as in the past) but slightly modified in order for him to be able to execute them given his older age and failing health in 2009/2010.

In any case, one of the very few new things (of those shows) were the visual aspects/graphics but Michael Jackson had no involvement in their creation.
Click to expand...

Can you just post once without being totally wrong?
 
mj_frenzy said:
For the 'This Is It' shows, Michael Jackson was stuck on the past also when it came to his looks by bringing back the curls.

The singer even brought back (for those shows) another of his old relics, i.e., the white tape on the tips of his fingers.

His dance moves/routines apparently were going to be the same (as in the past) but slightly modified in order for him to be able to execute them given his older age and failing health in 2009/2010.

In any case, one of the very few new things (of those shows) were the visual aspects/graphics but Michael Jackson had no involvement in their creation.
Click to expand...

This is an annoying take. He would have looked a bit ridiculous coming out on stage with the funny looking matt wig he'd been wearing over the past decade to that point. It was a look that was more recognizable with Michael as a performer.

Ever heard of the saying "if it aint broke, don't fix it"? What would you seriously change about the choreography of his classic songs? You dont touch that stuff. Only an idiot would.

The visuals would have added enough "new" to the classic formula.

As for being stuck in the past, we're talking about a 50 year old man whose biggest hits were 25 years beforehand. I could forgive him for being a bit "stuck in the past". But it's Michael Jackson. He's an ICON. He can be stuck wherever he wants because he has the breadth of material to do that and still be relevant.
 
Michael gave up on Invincible by 2002, otherwise he would have performed songs from Invincible during his 2002 performances at Clinton's gala and American Bandstand. There was no way he was going to perform any song from Invincible on This Is It, except for maybe You Rock My World on some dates.
 
Nite Line said:
Michael gave up on Invincible by 2002, otherwise he would have performed songs from Invincible during his 2002 performances at Clinton's gala and American Bandstand. There was no way he was going to perform any song from Invincible on This Is It, except for maybe You Rock My World on some dates.
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I am not sure about this. I thought there were contractual reasons why he couldn't promote the album?
SmoothGangsta said:
Honestly, describing Michael as being "stuck in the past" for embracing what everyone loved about him, being ready to show the world why he was so loved, is such hater behaviour.
Click to expand...

Yeah, definitely. It's a strange sentiment really.
 
What is the source of the information?
Hurley509 said:
This is an annoying take. He would have looked a bit ridiculous coming out on stage with the funny looking matt wig he'd been wearing over the past decade to that point. It was a look that was more recognizable with Michael as a performer.

Ever heard of the saying "if it aint broke, don't fix it"? What would you seriously change about the choreography of his classic songs? You dont touch that stuff. Only an idiot would.

The visuals would have added enough "new" to the classic formula.

As for being stuck in the past, we're talking about a 50 year old man whose biggest hits were 25 years beforehand. I could forgive him for being a bit "stuck in the past". But it's Michael Jackson. He's an ICON. He can be stuck wherever he wants because he has the breadth of material to do that and still be relevant.
Click to expand...
This is not an annoying take, but rather a realistic one.

Michael Jackson was apparently also meant to lip-sync a lot (by relying on studio album recordings, on pre-recorded new vocals, etc).

Note that the singer seemed to have also difficulty in remembering his lines for live singing, and a teleprompter was also planned for the shows which made the whole 'This Is It' situation even more embarrassing for him.
Hurley509 said:
I am not sure about this. I thought there were contractual reasons why he couldn't promote the album?
Click to expand...
Michael Jackson and Sony both gave up on the 'Invincible' album by 2002, mainly because a toxic relationship began to develop in 2000 between these 2 parties.
 
I'm pretty sure that "You Rock My World" was to be performed on some nights. That's basically the only song from the album that was popular worldwide. You're expected to perform the songs that most people know when you're touring.
 
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