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Invincible was not only better than Off the Wall, but well deserving of it's "Album of the Decade" award, people need to acknowledge how GREAT it was

PurpleThriller said:
So Michael shouldn't be held accountable for nothing now?
It was his fault as much as it was Sony's,as far as I remember..
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Sony started it.
The issue stemmed back during the production of Invincible when Jackson learned that the rights to the masters of his past releases, which were to revert to him in the early 2000s, wouldn't actually revert to him until much later in the decade. When Jackson went to the lawyer who worked with him in making the deal back in 1991, he learned that the same lawyer was also working for Sony, revealing a conflict of interest he was never aware of.
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en.wikipedia.org

Invincible (Michael Jackson album) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
Hot_Street said:
Sony started it.

en.wikipedia.org

Invincible (Michael Jackson album) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
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And Michael was unwise/impulsive enough to fall into their trap and help them with destroying the potential artistic value and promotion for his upcoming record (for example:running away from the recording sessions,not attending other sessions at all and composing/producing over the phone,in some cases;not appearing in the "Cry" music video;not performing any of the Invincible album tracks on a handful of occasions that could have been his chances of promoting the record,such American Bandstand '02 and/or Apollo '02 etc.)
Let's not forget that,at this time,Michael was also terribly addicted to who knows what kind of drugs( was it Demerol itself,among other things?I don't really remember,that's why I'm asking)and it showed,during the filming of the "You Rock My World" short-film, when he had a mental breakdown and started to cut his hair,but also during the first night of his "30th Anniversary Celebration" concert-series,for example,when he was incredibly high that he couldn't even perform properly..
All that you have stated in your previous post was true,I'll admit,but we still cannot act like Michael gave his all during the "Invincible" era.As soon as he's observed what his record label was up to,he recorded the album with more than an uninterested state of mind and finally put it out in October 2001 as he was forced to do so.(after many delays nonetheless,if I remember correctly..)
 
Richard76 said:
History Part 2 is kinda BOTDF album. Invincible is a brand new era. Experiment
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Yes, of course it’s a good idea musically to experiment. However, in the early 2000s (2000-2009), many could agree that there was no distinct “music sound” compared to previous decades. I‘m saying that Invincible would have worked more in the year 2000 before hip hop took over.

Michael’s HIStory-sounding “What More Can I Give?” tribute to the 9/11 victims clicked with fans and this was in 2001/ 2002.
 
StarlightXX said:
I‘m saying that Invincible would have worked more in the year 2000 before hip hop took over.
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Hip hop didn't hurt Survivor by Destiny's Child & Celebrity by NSYNC from being popular. Both albums came out in 2001. It also didn't stop the sales of The Beatles 1 hits compilation, which sold over 10 million in the USA and around 30 million worldwide. 1 came out in late 2000, which is close to 2001. The Beatles sound was more out of style than Invincible. The Fab 4 also hadn't existed since 1970. unless you count Free As A Bird in the 1990s.
 
I just wish MJ had got the chance to have made another album after Invincible. Then maybe wed have something else to talk about. Unfortunately it's got the stigma as "MJs last album" instead of "MJ's first foray into the 21st Century".
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
I just wish MJ had got the chance to have made another album after Invincible. Then maybe wed have something else to talk about. Unfortunately it's got the stigma as "MJs last album" instead of "MJ's first foray into the 21st Century".
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His upcoming album was going to be something between Thriller and HIstory. Vocally similar to Thriller, but sounding like History (or Invincible)
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
I just wish MJ had got the chance to have made another album after Invincible. Then maybe wed have something else to talk about. Unfortunately it's got the stigma as "MJs last album" instead of "MJ's first foray into the 21st Century".
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Commercial and critically Invincible was a dud, there's no shame in MJ releasing say an average album in his lifetime, all the great artists have had poor releases.

I'd like to think that he would learn from his mistakes on a new album after Invincible and really get back to his best. As you said, such a shame he never got the chance.

Part of me though believes that we might have got similar or even worse than Vince due to Michael's mental health. The man needed a clear mind to be as focused as possible and drug free - we got a glimpse in Ireland.

If Michael was free of all his demons I truly believe we may have got another masterpiece.
 
Hot_Street said:
the general public doesn't even know it exists
not Michaels fault
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It was equally his fault. He could have at least performed ONE song from Invincible at an awards show/appearance between 01 and 02.

He didnt. He performed the 1991 song Dangerous at every one.
 
innuendo141 said:
It was equally his fault. He could have at least performed ONE song from Invincible at an awards show/appearance between 01 and 02.

He didnt. He performed the 1991 song Dangerous at every one.
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He wasn't legally allowed to though. I forgot the specifics why but that is the case.

And anyway, he did. You Rock My World, at MSG.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
He wasn't legally allowed to though. I forgot the specifics why but that is the case.

And anyway, he did. You Rock My World, at MSG.
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How come that he was not legally allowed to yet he still managed to pull it off at MSG,performing YRMW twice in September of '01?
Or the said strike came only after the album was released in October and that would be why he never performed an Invincible track during his '02 shows? (Bandstand and Apollo?)
 
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Mister_Jay_Tee said:
And anyway, he did. You Rock My World, at MSG.
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Yeah,but,to be more specific,he never performed an Invincible track live after the album's release,later into the fall of '01. And that must have been because he wasn't legally allowed to do so,so that might make sense,now that I consider it (or am I way off?)..
How did you get to know this,though? (I've never heard of this legal issue before,that's why I'm asking)
 
PurpleThriller said:
Yeah,but,to be more specific,he never performed an Invincible track live after the album's release,later into the fall of '01. And must have been because he wasn't legally allowed to do so,so that might make sense,now that I consider it (or am I way off?)..
How did you get to know this,though? (I've never heard of this legal issue previously,that's why I'm asking)
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I can't remember my sources, like i said. But we used to discuss it a lot. Maybe the YouTube videos comment sections.

I wanna say it's because of television standards, in addition to Sony cutting off all promotion in 02.
PurpleThriller said:
Or the said strike came only after the album was released in October and that would be why he never performed an Invincible track during '02 shows? (Bandstand and Apollo?)
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Yeah. Lots of other songs like Black or White and Heal The World, Man in the Mirror, were also performed. We've never actually seen them because it wasn't allowed due to television standards. It was like a widespread boycott stifling, just to be real.
 
Mister_Jay_Tee said:
I can't remember my sources, like i said. But we used to discuss it a lot. Maybe the YouTube videos comment sections.

I wanna say it's because of television standards, in addition to Sony cutting off all promotion in 02.

Yeah. Lots of other songs like Black or White and Heal The World, Man in the Mirror, were also performed. We've never actually seen them because it wasn't allowed due to television standards. It was like a widespread boycott stifling, just to be real.
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Thank you for the information!
 
Richard76 said:
So, Michael didn't have rights to use music from Invincible album in This Is It Tour, because stupid Sony forbided to do it....
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He must have , a small part of Threatened was used in the Thriller performance.

I would also expect that you rock my world would have been performed on one of the later dates.
 
Agonum said:
Not true. Michael contributed big-time to that song.
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Thanks for mentioning this, I've been too lazy to check it out until now, I really appreciate the song.

Tbh I noticed very little lyric changes from the demo. A couple of subtle changes of course.

Michael's vocal delivery though blows the demo out of the water.
 
Agonum said:
Judged from the writers’ demo. Same as you, I suppose?
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Well,yeah,to an extent or another.
But,having listened to the said writers' demo as well,I can't help but feel that the song was,at least,80% already there,before Michael Jackson or Teddy Riley ever managed to "touch" it or consider its inclusion for the "Invincible" project.
This may also be coming from my personal bias,but,since the demo and the official version are so similar (nearly identical,which can only lead to me believing that Michael didn't contribute much,from a creative perspective,at least),then I can't help but prefer the writers' demo to Michael's cover/version.
He didn't bring anything new to it,in my view at least..(or should I get my ears checked lol?)
This wasn't like Michael,though,if you think about it.
Everytime he would record tracks written by others,he would still try to sound as close to the demo as possible while still adding his own "touch",here and there (for example,the changed ending to "She's out of my life";the falsetto that he added to "Human Nature";he gritty,signature ad-libs that him and Quincy put at the end of "Man in the mirror" etc).
But that is not the case for "Whatever Happens",actually (nor for most of the other Invincible tracks really,if you think about it..for example "Butterflies"). In that era he would simply cover the tracks as they were written,put his name on it and suggest that he was somehow involved in any part of the creative process..while that may have been impressively far from the actual truth..
(I'd still say that "Heaven Can Wait" is an exception to this though,as he at least inserted some of his signature screams/ad-libs at the very end of it,but still)
 
Blues_Away2023 said:
Thanks for mentioning this, I've been too lazy to check it out until now, I really appreciate the song.

Tbh I noticed very little lyric changes from the demo. A couple of subtle changes of course.

Michael's vocal delivery though blows the demo out of the water.
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Wow 🥲
Interesting point of view nonetheless,but I feel the exact opposite about the demo/track..
 
PurpleThriller said:
Well,yeah,to an extent or another.
But,having listened to the said writers' demo as well,I can't help but feel that the song was,at least,80% already there,before Michael Jackson or Teddy Riley ever managed to "touch" it or consider its inclusion for the "Invincible" project.
This may also be coming from my personal bias,but,since the demo and the official version are so similar (nearly identical,which can only lead to me believing that Michael didn't contribute much,from a creative perspective,at least),then I can't help but prefer the writers' demo to Michael's cover/version.
He didn't bring anything new to it,in my view at least..(or should I get my ears checked lol?)
This wasn't like Michael,though,if you think about it.
Everytime he would record tracks written by others,he would still try to sound as close to the demo as possible while still adding his own "touch",here and there (for example,the changed ending to "She's out of my life";the falsetto that he added to "Human Nature";he gritty,signature ad-libs that him and Quincy put at the end of "Man in the mirror" etc).
But that is not the case for "Whatever Happens",actually (nor for most of the other Invincible tracks really,if you think about it..for example "Butterflies"). In that era he would simply cover the tracks as they were written,put his name on it and suggest that he was somehow involved in any part of the creative process..while that may have been impressively far from the actual truth..
(I'd still say that "Heaven Can Wait" is an exception to this though,as he at least inserted some of his signature screams/ad-libs at the very end of it,but still)
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The changes he made aren’t major on paper, but they make a big difference in practice. Perhaps most notably in the chorus.
 
Agonum said:
Do you prefer the vocals of the writers’ demo to Michael’s?
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Yeah,to be honest.
They sound equally good I must admit,but I just prefer the writers' vocals since they simply have a different "aura" attached to them (at least in my view),since they are the ones who gave birth to the song (I know,not a completely if any at all rational argument,but yeah 🥲) I would even go as far as saying that their vocals fit the song more than Michael's ones,but maybe I'm reaching at this point..
My view would be way different if Mike would have done more than simply (vocally,at least) copying the demo,but I shall not cry over the spilled milk I suppose,right?
 
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