A Possible Third Michael Jackson Documentary

[Zakk]

they can't release something on blu-ray if VHS is all they have!

VHS isn't all they have though, there are full shows from each tour on film. Wembley should have never been released, i'm sure everyone is patient enough to wait until the best sources available are categorized.

 

[CaptainEoLove85]

HIStory doc has to happen!

 

[HIStory]

A History doc would be great, but even if its vague, they'd HAVE to address the controversies (as it was a big inspiration for the album).
Pretending it didn't exist is like ignoring the elephant in the room.

Which is I suspect one of the reasons Spike (or anyone else) doesn't really want to touch this era. It's easier to deal with something carefree like Thriller.

 

[InvincibleMJ]

VHS isn't all they have though, there are full shows from each tour on film. Wembley should have never been released, i'm sure everyone is patient enough to wait until the best sources available are categorized.

You can wait while we get our HIStory doc

 

[Michaels Lover]

Wembley should have never been released

:wtf::wtf2

 

[InvincibleMJ]

This is why I would really like to see the doc made very seriously. Any fool who actually listened to the song knew it was the opposite of anti-Semitic, but most people read the press and didn't listen to the song.

YANA would be ok if Lisa Marie gives a good interview. And smiles.

I totally agree with you. These are parts of Michael's story that people should hear about.

 

[SheilaMJFan4Ever]

HIStory may (or may not) have been Mike's most under-appreciated album, but that isn't a good enough reason to skip over doing a documentary about Thriller. 1. it will complete the Mike and Quincy era and 2. Thriller isn't just Mike's best selling album; it's the biggest selling album, PERIOD. That fact alone shouldn't be ignored. All kinds of records and history was made with that album and there's still plenty to learn about how it came to be.

 

[barbee0715]

Which is I suspect one of the reasons Spike (or anyone else) doesn't really want to touch this era. It's easier to deal with something carefree like Thriller.

Sure it's easier, but I've been thinking about this today. I think if it were written right, they could get this elephant out of the way in the first 15/20 minutes and the rest of the doc can be on his reaction to it through the songs/work, etc. Everything else would be totally the album, the songs, the videos. In other words, his response as seen through his work and his collaborators-and the drive that became even stronger, probably due to this as well.

I have an idea (probably terrible) that I'll try to write out-just some scenes-and then post tomorrow.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

I presume because of the circumstances around the album and how sony screwed him.

History doc would be amazing if done properly but id be shocked (happily) if it did. The estate etc etc dont have the balls imo even though its their job to stop the pushed polorisation (sp) of mj doing nothing after bad

 

[Bubs]

I presume because of the circumstances around the album and how sony screwed him.

History doc would be amazing if done properly but id be shocked (happily) if it did. The estate etc etc dont have the balls imo even though its their job to stop the pushed polorisation (sp) of mj doing nothing after bad

I'm certain they will get to it later.
They have many years to bring out MJ stuff, and I believe at first they try to bring out projects that shows what made MJ, then they tackle later part of his life.
Perhaps it is wise decision, because if you try to push more controversial time of MJ's life so early after his passing, it will be lost to nonsense from opponents (media).
It is better wait until some of them have kicked the bucket and new generations have taken over media, or if they have grown some sense.

 

[Galactus123]

VHS isn't all they have though, there are full shows from each tour on film. Wembley should have never been released, i'm sure everyone is patient enough to wait until the best sources available are categorized.

We can't really know if they have every tour on film. We don't know about Dangerous Tour and HIStory Tour sounds unlikely because they shot the Munich shows in HD digitally. We can only guess.

 

[InvincibleMJ]

I've said that before - I hope they make a whole series. I think there's no need to freak out. If Thriller doesn't get its movie now, it'll be made soon enough, I'm sure. In my opinion HIStory or Dangerous are smarter choices for the next documentary because the amount of stuff that's already out there on Thriller is overwhelming while the other albums have such a poor representation in pop culture.

Nobody says the HIStory documentary will be easy and I'm pretty sure Branca is very much aware of the circumstances behind the album. I want to believe that when he says his preference is HIStory, it's not because he thinks that the footage of You Are Not Alone need to be discussed for two hours. The content of the album is too "in your face" for them to try to ignore certain subjects. Would that be as carefree as Off The Wall? No. But that's part of the deal. HIStory album is Michael's story told through 15 songs.

This documentary (If it ever happens) can be one of the most insightful movies on Michael Jackson's life (not just his music/career) much like the album itself. The whole surrounding of this album is where MJ's personal life and his career collided - and he turned it into brilliant music. His personal life during those years is a crucial and unavoidable part of any kind of discussion about this album. That's why I hope the interviews will get a little personal as well... with people who had been there with him during this hardship.

In my opinion HIStory gives OTW a pretty fair competition of which of MJ's albums is "the most important album of Michael Jackson's career" (as the the new OTW booklet says) for many reasons I probably don't need to explain.

 

[Bubs]

^^^Very well said.

 

[HIStory]

Nobody says the HIStory documentary will be easy and I'm pretty sure Branca is very much aware of the circumstances behind the album. I want to believe that when he says his preference is HIStory, it's not because he thinks that the footage of You Are Not Alone need to be discussed for two hours. The content of the album is too "in your face" for them to try to ignore certain subjects. Would that be as carefree as Off The Wall? No. But that's part of the deal. HIStory album is Michael's story told through 15 songs.

This documentary (If it ever happens) can be one of the most insightful movies on Michael Jackson's life (not just his music/career) much like the album itself. The whole surrounding of this album is where MJ's personal life and his career collided - and he turned it into brilliant music. His personal life during those years is a crucial and unavoidable part of any kind of discussion about this album. That's why I hope the interviews will get a little personal as well... with people who had been there with him during this hardship.

Yes. And whoever makes that documentary needs to have an open mind about the album and not just echo old articles and sentiments against it that appeared in the media when it came out.

 

[Doggone]

The Quincy Jones-produced albums have been enough in the spotlights... It's time for Dangerous, HIStory and Invincible to shine! I would LOVE to see a HIStory documentary. I hope this documentary will happen just to show Michael's message and ''dark side''. HIStory album is diverse in so many ways. I hope that they can and will another rumor put to rest regarding TDCAU. Because, dammnnn that song and Michael himself faced so much injustice during that time.

I hope that more documentaries will follow. Spike Lee knows damn too well that his documentaries are a success! He should do more... I hope that every album gets a documentary!

 

[BadTour1]

I would really love to see thriller but yet again I would love to see history too

 

[Michaels Lover]

forget about documentaries about albums, just make one about naked Michael

 

[HIStory]

I read now the essay that Raven Woods submitted for her proposal for a HIStory book in the 33 1/3 series. I just read something in it that is news to me and I find it pretty shocking. I post it here because it has to do with HIStory so it is kind of related - although I am sure any documentary released through Sony won't touch this subject.

The move to undermine HIStory’s success was underway even before the album’s


release, when The New York Times published an article denouncing the track “They


Don’t Care About Us” for its “racist” lyrics.[SUP][SUP]1[/SUP][/SUP] For a song whose very theme was


addressing the issue of racism, it was a ludicrous claim. But even more interesting is just


who was making the claim-none other than Bernard Weinraub, husband of Sony picture


chief Amy Pascal, in what could only be deemed as an insider attempt to sabotage one of


Sony’s own releases.

I did not know that the whole TDCAU is racist thing was started by the husband of a Sony principal. Wow!

BTW, this is the same Amy Pascal who was heavily involved in the Sony hack scandal in 2014 and was fired/resigned after that. She made a lot of insensitive comments about celebrities in her e-mails, including racially insensitive comments:

Perhaps the most damning reveal was a racially insensitive back-and-forth between Pascal and high-powered producer Scott Rudin. Before heading to a November 2013 fundraising event for President Obama hosted by DreamWorks Animation head Jeffrey Katzenberg, Pascal fretted to Rudin about what to ask the president at the "stupid" event.

"Should I ask him if he liked DJANGO?” Pascal asked, referring to "Django Unchained," Quentin Tarantino's slavery-themed western.
"12 YEARS," Rudin responded, citing another movie about slavery, "12 Years a Slave."
“Or the butler. Or think like a man? [sic]” Pascal continued, referring to movies starring predominantly African Americans.
Shortly after the emails were made public, Pascal and Rudin issued apologies and Pascal set up a metting with Al Sharpton.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainmen...-pascal-email-rogen-hirai-20150205-story.html

 

[barbee0715]

^^Yes. This story about TDCAU broke with that email scandal. Pretty amazing when you think it might have been a calculated conspiracy.
Strange.

 

[michael555]

I trust Spike Lee for a great documentary, whatever the era. Can't wait for the OTW one !

 

[OnirMJ]

Invincible doc would be sad, and there's not much material there. No need for it tbh.

Why would it be sad? There is plenty of material. Much more than for Off The Wall for example and a lot more people/collaborators who are willing to talk about it. There is absolute need for it! But I know it will never happen because that would be Sony going against themselves. Important part of that documentary would have to be Sony boycott of the album and the cancellation of the album promotion and Sony would never agree that to be shown in realistic objective way like it happened.

 

[Bubs]

I did not know that the whole TDCAU is racist thing was started by the husband of a Sony principal. Wow!

BTW, this is the same Amy Pascal who was heavily involved in the Sony hack scandal in 2014 and was fired/resigned after that. She made a lot of insensitive comments about celebrities in her e-mails, including racially insensitive comments:

History came out in 1995.
Amy P married that Weinraub 2 years later (1997), so it wasn't like that racist stuff was started by husband of Sony principal because she started with Sony 2006 and they weren't even married that time.
I just wanted to post that because from that snippet, Raven makes it sound like conspiracy, when it is possible that it wasn't, just Weinraub's own stupid rantings and paranoia.

 

[HIStory]

History came out in 1995.
Amy P married that Weinraub 2 years later (1997), so it wasn't like that racist stuff was started by husband of Sony principal because she started with Sony 2006 and they weren't even married that time.
I just wanted to post that because from that snippet, Raven makes it sound like conspiracy, when it is possible that it wasn't, just Weinraub's own stupid rantings and paranoia.

Yes, you are right. I just looked up Weinraub on Wikipedia and it say he and Pascal met in 1996, so it was after he wrote that article about TDCAU:

Personal life

He has been married twice.[SUP][3][/SUP] He has two children from his first marriage.[SUP][3][/SUP] He met Amy Pascal, a movie executive, at The Peninsula Beverly Hills in 1996; they got married in 1997.[SUP][1][/SUP][SUP][3][/SUP][SUP][6][/SUP] They have a son.[SUP][3][/SUP] They reside in Brentwood, a Western suburb of Los Angeles, California.[SUP][5][/SUP]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Weinraub

 

[OnirMJ]

A History doc would be great, but even if its vague, they'd HAVE to address the controversies (as it was a big inspiration for the album).
Pretending it didn't exist is like ignoring the elephant in the room.

Those events should definitely be addressed. To set the mood for the album. To set the time and place for the documentary and for the whole story. Something similar to what Joe Vogel did in his book before going into details about every song. That part should be short and factual only though. No tabloid junk and no yellow journalism. Just tell factual informations what happened - the truth - and move on to the music. More can be discussed when each song is discussed if that is the theme of the song (Scream, Tabloid Junkie, D.S.) but again just to talk about the mood of the song, Michael's emotions and inspirations, his feelings and what he wanted to say.

And I agree, maybe Spike wouldn't be the right director for that documentary (judging by Bad 25 and Off The Wall trailer). Much more serious director should do that one and set much serious tone for the documentary because the album is much more serious than Bad and Off The Wall.

there are full shows from each tour on film.

Yeah, but you mentioned specifically Bad Tour. And the fact is that they don't have the films as they declared in the public announcement.

Which is I suspect one of the reasons Spike (or anyone else) doesn't really want to touch this era. It's easier to deal with something carefree like Thriller.

I don't think that's the reason. Spike just prefers Thriller album and he thinks that it is historically and musically more important than HIStory. Also one of the major reasons is his love and admiration for Quincy Jones. Spike would love to do that one to show all those glory moments of MJ, the grammys, Motown 25... and all other classic moments from MJ's career. Also he would love to complete Quincy Jones trilogy he started.

:wtf::wtf2

In that poor VHS quality, I agree with Zakk - it should have never been released! It's way below MJ's standards.

HIStory may (or may not) have been Mike's most under-appreciated album, but that isn't a good enough reason to skip over doing a documentary about Thriller. 1. it will complete the Mike and Quincy era and 2. Thriller isn't just Mike's best selling album; it's the biggest selling album, PERIOD. That fact alone shouldn't be ignored. All kinds of records and history was made with that album and there's still plenty to learn about how it came to be.

Yeah, but Branca didn't say they want to skip it. He just said that he thinks that HIStory should be next. Probably to tie in with the planned HIStory Tour release on blu-ray and in 3D.

Sure it's easier, but I've been thinking about this today. I think if it were written right, they could get this elephant out of the way in the first 15/20 minutes and the rest of the doc can be on his reaction to it through the songs/work, etc. Everything else would be totally the album, the songs, the videos. In other words, his response as seen through his work and his collaborators-and the drive that became even stronger, probably due to this as well.

I have an idea (probably terrible) that I'll try to write out-just some scenes-and then post tomorrow.

Exactly! I agree, but less than 15/20 minutes. 10 minutes is more than enough. 5-10 would be perfect. Just tell factual informations and move on to the music.

It would have to be MJ's collaborators or musicians (which it should for any documentary! Because they can provide insight) and they don't want that.

Have you seen Bad 25? There are literally dozens of MJ's collaborators and musicians in that one. Also there will be lots of them in Off The Wall too.

 

[barbee0715]

History came out in 1995.
Amy P married that Weinraub 2 years later (1997), so it wasn't like that racist stuff was started by husband of Sony principal because she started with Sony 2006 and they weren't even married that time.
I just wanted to post that because from that snippet, Raven makes it sound like conspiracy, when it is possible that it wasn't, just Weinraub's own stupid rantings and paranoia.

HOW INTERESTING!!! Now that I realize it, I read about that in a post by somebody who is somewhat a conspiracy theorist. So that makes sense. I never thought to look up to see when they met-darn!

Those events should definitely be addressed. To set the mood for the album. To set the time and place for the documentary and for the whole story. Something similar to what Joe Vogel did in his book before going into details about every song. That part should be short and factual only though. No tabloid junk and no yellow journalism. Just tell factual informations what happened - the truth - and move on to the music. More can be discussed when each song is discussed if that is the theme of the song (Scream, Tabloid Junkie, D.S.) but again just to talk about the mood of the song, Michael's emotions and inspirations, his feelings and what he wanted to say.

And I agree, maybe Spike wouldn't be the right director for that documentary (judging by Bad 25 and Off The Wall trailer). Much more serious director should do that one and set much serious tone for the documentary because the album is much more serious than Bad and Off The Wall.


Exactly! I agree, but less than 15/20 minutes. 10 minutes is more than enough. 5-10 would be perfect. Just tell factual informations and move on to the music.

I was seeing the set-up along the lines of the PBS Frontline documentary about the Tabloid Press-that was quite a serious documentary and they used Michael as the example. Kind of a whole "Absence of Malice" thing.
I was thinking we could just start out with a set up of 92-93-show scenes from him announcing the Dangerous Tour/Heal the World foundation-maybe some film of him visiting hospitals and orphanages, the Superbowl, the Oprah interview-(especially the tour of the movie theatre with the hospital beds) the Grammy Legend award-then you see the headlines-you go right into Michael's speech from Neverland/the speech at the NAACP awards. Just showing snippets of these with some serious commentary would be all the set-up you'd need for the album doc. You'd definitely feel his mindset when he was writing those songs.

 

[SmoothCriminal1995]

I would much prefer a HIStory documentary!! Especially if they talk about the songs on Blood On The Dance Floor.
It's such an unknown time in Michael's life (for obvious reasons) but we barely know any stories of how the songs came to be. I would love to see a documentary for each album but mainly for Dangerous and HIStory. I mean there is a lot more talk about with those albums, the artistic change, the lyrics, the themes and so on. Don't forget all the footage there must be!!!!!!

 

[SheilaMJFan4Ever]

The Quincy Jones-produced albums have been enough in the spotlights

Well, this is a first; a "fan" using the success of part of an artist's work as a reason to not cover it (in a documentary or otherwise).

 

[Zakk]

@AlwaysThere

@OnirMJ they were shooting film in Tokyo/Bangkok & other's in the Dangerous World Tour, plus someone who works for Patrick Kelley confirmed that Liverpool was shot in full on film.. but the audio isn't of standard, so a montage show would be superior.

Back on topic, i would like the documentary and a big re-release with Ghosts/One Night Only/Studio Footage etc. but honestly, aside from Second in that list and some rough demo's.. i won't be interested all that much...

 

[OnirMJ]

@OnirMJ they were shooting film in Tokyo/Bangkok & other's in the Dangerous World Tour, plus someone who works for Patrick Kelley confirmed that Liverpool was shot in full on film.. but the audio isn't of standard, so a montage show would be superior.

You keep missing the point. We all know they were shot on film. But they released a statement in which they publicly stated that they are not in the possession of those films. I think they couldn't said it any clearer so I don't understand what part you don't understand. Until someone hand over those films to the Estate there will be no blu-ray release of Bad Tour. Also there is a big possibility that those films are lost or destroyed forever so the release will never happen.

 

[barbee0715]

I would much prefer a HIStory documentary!! Especially if they talk about the songs on Blood On The Dance Floor.
It's such an unknown time in Michael's life (for obvious reasons) but we barely know any stories of how the songs came to be. I would love to see a documentary for each album but mainly for Dangerous and HIStory. I mean there is a lot more talk about with those albums, the artistic change, the lyrics, the themes and so on. Don't forget all the footage there must be!!!!!!

I wouldn't PREFER a HIStory documentary over Thriller, but I'd like to see them make one for the reasons you listed above. I really don't know much about the background or the making of Dangerous or HIStory-just the stuff I wrote about before-I think a lot of people who are collectors might know more stories-or they have heard things from the collaborators, engineers and producers-but most of us haven't. I'd really like a doc with somebody like Brad Sunberg talking about those albums.

And do we really have enough docs about Thriller? I know Ashley Banjo made his little doc last year-but what else besides the original "Making of"? Speaking of, this has made me want to watch my old copy of "The Making of Thriller." I love that.