Cascio Tracks Debate Thread

[ivy]

With all due respect Larry, either side hasn't provided any proof at all, and I fail to see why it would be up to those who don't believe in the Cascio tracks to provide proof that it's not him.

It's up to them to provide proof because it's already been stated that it's Michael on the records, by both the label and The Estate. They have nothing else to do, they've already said their piece, and they've explained why they believe what they do. No pun intended, but it's human nature, if you disagree with something, you have to prove why, if someone is accused of fraud, it has to be proven. Now you're all basically saying Sony have committed fraud with the release of this album and the songs on it, now it's in your hands to prove it. That's how the world works.

Let me add the legal perspective here as well.

Legally there's the presumption of innocence (also known as "innocent until proven guilty") so whoever is claiming the opposite (guilt) is required to prove it.

however in this discussion I would not personally expect anyone or any side to be able to prove anything. It's bound to be personal opinions, possible scenarios and logical explanations.

 

[mjcy]

How can someone listen to "Much Too Soon", "Best of Joy" and then "Keep Your Head Up" and still think that it's the same person singing?

After listening to the album 100 times since it came out, I'm pretty convinced that the 3 Cascio tracks on the album are fake. Someting about the tone in the voice, the pronunciation.. THAT is not Mike.

And please don't compare "2000 Watts", "Privacy", "Shout" and "Money" to this garbage.

I've been listening to Michael since I can remember and I'm almost 24. I know when it's him singing and when it's not.

I don't care what anybody thinks. I know I'm right.

 

[tofdel1]

wow.

with all the speculation, accusations, and greed in the word; I tend to believe that the answer we are looking for may not be as simple as fake/not fake. I believe it is more like 80% MJ, 10% Teddy Riley, 10% Jame Porte. No complete facts-just that James Porte is listed for vocals. I think Hollywood Tonite sounds more altered, edited, or not like the usual MJ, but then again-just opinion.
But unlike the previous post- I DO care what others think, and am not too arrogant to think I am RIGHT. There could be a gray area.

 

[kasume]

great, a debate. i love debates. they are fun. and i always win.

i am against the cascio tracks and I already found many points i can attack, but im tired right now so ill just leave.

 

[mjcy]

wow.

with all the speculation, accusations, and greed in the word; I tend to believe that the answer we are looking for may not be as simple as fake/not fake. I believe it is more like 80% MJ, 10% Teddy Riley, 10% Jame Porte. No complete facts-just that James Porte is listed for vocals. I think Hollywood Tonite sounds more altered, edited, or not like the usual MJ, but then again-just opinion.
But unlike the previous post- I DO care what others think, and am not too arrogant to think I am RIGHT. There could be a gray area.

It's not about being arrogant.

Take a listen to all the the tracks on the album. Isn't it weird that out of all of them, the tracks that sound different are the ones in question? The singer [whoever that is] on the 3 Cascio tracks has a vibrato that sounds like a damn goat and a changed accent. Even in demos a vibrato dosen't change nor the accent. Michael has been quoted having one the most natural? vibratos. Now, either Michael forgot how to sing with his technique [which a singer will never ever lose] or the 3 tracks are fake!

Just compare those 3 tracks with all the MJ songs out there! It's THAT simple.

Also, some people say that it's Michael's voice and it matured. Pease! If "Best of Joy" is the most recent track on the album and he sounds so flawless, then that says nothing to me. Even in "This Is It". He sounded flawless live, like he always did. No "matureness" to the voice or whatever.

Anyway, I just hope all the fans realize that we've got 7 MJ tracks on the new album.

I can't tell you how devastated I am to see this happening to Mike's legacy. Because for me, there's no debate here. I know when I listen to Mike's voice.

 

[kasume]

I can't tell you how devastated I am to see this happening to Mike's legacy. Because for me, there's no debate here. I know when I listen to Mike's voice.

I agree. And this album can never destroy Michael's legacy. His legacy has already been written from when he was here. All the lies of June 25th impacting Michael's legacy is what I'm devastated about.

Furthermore, some of the points I've heard on here from the pro cascios are not really valid, or just very weak. No offense to anyone.

 

[AnnieRUOkay89]

This is not a debate, if you've already made up your mind regarding these songs, this thread is not for you. Why do you all insist on ruining someone else's belief and opinion? If you've made your mind up, and aren't willing to hear any other opinion and say things like "I don't care what anyone says, I know I'm right", which is pretty arrogant by the way, you should probably steer clear of this thread.

 

[mjcy]

This is not a debate, if you've already made up your mind regarding these songs, this thread is not for you. Why do you all insist on ruining someone else's belief and opinion? If you've made your mind up, and aren't willing to hear any other opinion and say things like "I don't care what anyone says, I know I'm right", which is pretty arrogant by the way, you should probably steer clear of this thread.

You don't know how hard I tried to convince myself that MJ is actually singing on those 3 tracks. Beause I didn't believe that anyone could have been cabable of doing this to this man's legacy. Or to his fans.

But my ears don't fool me. You can call me arrogant if you want but yea, I know I'm right. 24 years of listening to MJ's voice can't be compared with a "confirmation" letter from Sony and a "well, MJ fans can be sure it's him, because I was there with him in the studio" statement from Cascio on Oprah.

And GOD, I hope I'm wrong. I hope they can provide enough evidence that MJ is actually singing on those tracks. And then I will apoligize to everyone.

 

[BabeBeMine]

How on earth can you compare "much to soon", "best of joy" to "breaking news" and "monster"

"Keep your head up"...fine..thats a good comparison. You can't compare slow tracks to faster tracks where MJ sings more edgy. That grunt in his voice. Different styles.

And "keep your head up" is a more soulful track than Much to Soon. Completely different styles of slow songs

 

[Superstition]

I'd say you should be able to compare any songs where its supposedly the same artist singing, regardless of the style the artist is singing in. There should be distinct similarities regardless.

 

[barok232]

How on earth can you compare "much to soon", "best of joy" to "breaking news" and "monster"

"Keep your head up"...fine..thats a good comparison. You can't compare slow tracks to faster tracks where MJ sings more edgy. That grunt in his voice. Different styles.

And "keep your head up" is a more soulful track than Much to Soon. Completely different styles of slow songs

I SO disagree :bugeyed. KYHU isn't even MJ singing

 

[HIStory]

And "keep your head up" is a more soulful track than Much to Soon.

No, it isn't.

 

[BabeBeMine]

What i mean by soulful is relating more towards the Urban r&b audience

"Keep Your Head Up" is a soulful r&b track that would be hot on Urban radio just like Butterflies was.

Much to Soon is kinda like "Be Not Always" from the Victory album style

Thats not Urban or r&b...Slow song, but not r&b..ish with the smooth falsetto

 

[HIStory]

What i mean by soulful is relating more towards the Urban r&b audience

"Keep Your Head Up" is a soulful r&b track that would be hot on Urban radio just like Butterflies was.

Much to Soon is kinda like "Be Not Always" from the Victory album style

Thats not Urban or r&b...Slow song, but not r&b..ish with the smooth falsetto

MJ's audience is not just urban radio listeners. I prefer Much Too Soon. Especially because KYHU is very poorly sung IMO. (I can't bear the vibratos at the end of the lines.) I will stop here and not get into the debate who is singing there, but if it's Mike then he had a very bad day....

 

[rickd]

It's so obvious, so clearly obvious these songs aren't MJ. Those who can't see that I wish I was in as much denial as you but im not.

Even mire insulting is they are shut songs. BN everyone was like um OK. Monster is awful & I'll tell you right now nobody wants to listen to kyhu but fans & when you have keep the faith why wud ya?

Honestly...the album is a huge dissapointment &'a failure already IMHO. Nobody gives a flying **** but fans so in 4 weeks it will go. Nice work getting your $250 mill working for ya Sony bring on the Bad DvD. Waaay easier to market MJ when he was good right.

 

[BabeBeMine]

MJ's audience is not just urban radio listeners. I prefer Much Too Soon. Especially because KYHU is very poorly sung IMO. (I can't bear the vibratos at the end of the lines.) I will stop here and not get into the debate who is singing there, but if it's Mike then he had a very bad day....

In the USA Urban radio is very important for MJ because they show Mike more luv than Pop radio. r&b/hip hop radio is what carried YRMW and Butterflies.. along with the remix featuring Eve

If you released both to r&b/hip hop...Keep Your Head Up gets more love

That doesnt mean Much to Soon isnt good. Its a little to slow

Kinda like comparing "speechless" and "lost children" to Butterflies

Nice tracks, but better off as songs you hear on the album. Not for radio

 

[BabeBeMine]

It's so obvious, so clearly obvious these songs aren't MJ. Those who can't see that I wish I was in as much denial as you but im not.

Even mire insulting is they are shut songs. BN everyone was like um OK. Monster is awful & I'll tell you right now nobody wants to listen to kyhu but fans & when you have keep the faith why wud ya?

Honestly...the album is a huge dissapointment &'a failure already IMHO. Nobody gives a flying **** but fans so in 4 weeks it will go. Nice work getting your $250 mill working for ya Sony bring on the Bad DvD. Waaay easier to market MJ when he was good right.

Actually NON fans are loving "monster" especially hip hop fans

The base on this track in the car on a good stereo is RIDICULOUS

MJ has not had a bumpin track like that in 20 years. You can hear "monster" beat from 4 blocks away with that base

 

[Garden]

I think people would like an actual DEBATE as apposed to a childish squabble, and at the same time we don't want it popping up in every single forum we goto, so why not make a thread for it?
Although there will be rules (so it's fair and theres not too much madness)

1. DO NOT tell people to shut up or insult anyone for any reason
2. Speculation IS allowed but speculation without a strong fact to back it up may not be counted in the final result.
3. NO GOD SPEAK! or in other words "Michael wouldn't write those lyrics", in other words suggesting something as fact without back up.
4. NO spam, 1 post at a time please, so yes that means you will have to multiquote at times.
5. Be mature, this is a debate, not an argument.

How will this be judged? well, a collation of all facts and STRONG speculation at the set date of January 17th 2011. I would also like to convey that if you are not willing to listen to other people and take on board evidence as well as strong speculation in an objective manner, i suggest you don't take part.

LET THE DEBATE BEGIN!

Unfortunately I see not many people respecting these starting rules for this "debate".

 

[Misayko]

How can someone listen to "Much Too Soon", "Best of Joy" and then "Keep Your Head Up" and still think that it's the same person singing?

because the singer on keep ur head up is also singing on best of joy!

much too soon was recorded in the 80s? not sure bout this. so his voice was different from late 2000s. but KYHU and BOJ have the same voice.

 

[Gugu_134]

I hope this to be my last post on the debate. What realy hurts me is calling the Cascio tracks fake. Michaels ultimate way of giving love was trough his music, he poured his soul into them, he worked night and day tiredlessly. He was a true genius, because the impact of his materpieces was so big on ones soul that they always left you speechless and with shivers going trough your spine and thinkig about meaningful things, such as the broken bond between children and parents, victims, hurted souls and so on. His love was always present in his songs and this is the only way he could give it all of us. He was always there for us, he never stopped caring, never stopped loving. We as fans sure love him differently, some of us are desparerately in love with him, some love him for who he is and some just like his music. If he could hear the voices of all of us our love would feel different, wouldn't it? He gave us love throuh his songs. So do you think that he would have ever called the love of some fans FAKE, because it sounded different to him? If he sounded differently it was due to several facts: the songs were demo recordings, another signers were used to complete the unfinished work, but the fact that he created those songs-the lyrics, the tempo, the music makes them Michaels songs. It hurts to see us fans being divided and lead by hatred and dictating opinions.Yes you could believe whatever you wan't , but why fail Michael, why leave him, why watch with joy the fall of the album? Would it make you satisfied if the album becommes a failure and Michaels name and legacy tarnished once again? The conspiracy believers would be proud, thinking that it was right to boycot the album. But you fail to reallise that you are doing harm to Michael. And this is exatly what made him different from all of us, because he never left us in our darkest hours, we left him, he never stopped caring about us, we stopped the moment these songs made controversy, he never stopped loving us, we started hating , because other singers were probably used, as Michael was not here to complete the tracks himself. It feels very disappointing to me what is happening right now. I pray that future generations will not be affected by these conspiracy theories. Again you could believe whatever you want and I could agree that another singers were used, but calling the songs fake is hurting. Sorry for the long read, but I have no intentions at this point to be a part of this debate in the future. Thank you!

 

[noa2]

I really don't think that the "believers" really understand us other. I never said these songs are fake. I always stated that it doesn't sound like Michael, and I still stand by that. If it's Michael but the quality was so bad that they had to process the vocals AND use others singers to fill in the gaps I don't understand why they have to do this when theres obviously exist other finished/nearly finished tracks, that noone debate about. Even Teddy said that the reason his vocal may sounds strange it's because of heavy processing. Why the hell even use it then if it will turn out that alot of fans don't think its Michael. Why?
I never heard Monster leak but the first thing I thought then I heard it on the album was, Who is this, it don't sound like Michael.
And it's not because he use a new singing style (2000watts or Shout or whatever) It just dont sound like its Michal Jackson singing.
And another thing. I was equal a fan of Michaels production, and 'Michael' has nothing of that quality or magic.

 

[mjcy]

because the singer on keep ur head up is also singing on best of joy!

much too soon was recorded in the 80s? not sure bout this. so his voice was different from late 2000s. but KYHU and BOJ have the same voice.

It's either you're in denial or my ears play tricks on me if you say KYHU and BOJ have the same voice.

We all know how Michael's voice sounded, even in 2009 (This Is It). So, the "mature" voice thing is off the table.

 

[samhabib]

Have just heard these videos. Nice and concise. They are absolutely damning. The vocalist is CLEARLY Jason Malachi. It's a bit ridiculous for some fans to keep saying 'until you've got some proof...'.

THIS is proof. Some people just don't want to see it for what it is. It's absolutely damning proof that the vocalist on all of these clips are the same man... ie, NOT Michael Jackson.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh4iafqCIqk

 

[siakfam]

I have been sitting on the fence for a while on this one.

My feelings change everyday i.e. I try to ignore all the comments made on this forum and just listen to the CD and enjoy it believing it is Michael singing. Some days it works and I really enjoy the tracks, however there are times when I just can't hear Michael singing and I start questioning the vocals. It sometimes puts me off listening to those tracks. Anyways this is what I believe has happened in the end.

- At the time of Michaels death there were apparently hundreds of songs that could be released. Plenty of articles on google.

- When Michael Died Latoya took Michael's hard drive with all the tracks: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE56D6M220090806

- Michael was producing tracks at the Cascios between 06-08. (There were news articles at the time + his kids and 50 cent confirmed this).

- The Cascio recording studio would not have been of the highest quality.

- The songs were demos and not finished.

- Sony made a contract with the Estate for 10 projects in 7 years.. but NOT 10 albums....wern't there over 100 unreleased songs that could be released?

- Jason Malachi has denied being the possible impostor

- The music was verified by 5-10 producers that worked with Michael Jackson for over 20 years.

- The music was verified by 2 Professionals (1 Hired by the estate and 1 hired by Sony)

- If this is a conspiracy... It would have to be pretty big for example: The Cascio's long time friends of Michael would have to be traitors. Furthermore there would be a lot of loose ends to tie up by Sony.

- Why would Sony risk all of this by hiring an impostor? They want the album to be successful just as much as we do.

- Teddy Riley the other day said that there is only material for another couple of albums i.e. roughly 20 songs.

Based on all the above my conclusion is... The Jackson family have the majority of the tracks and Sony have had to use the Cascio tracks as fillers on the album because they simply do not have enough material. If they did have enough tracks, why wouldn't they just replace the cascio tracks with 3 other songs before the album was released after all the controversy regarding Breaking News.

I believe there are about 9 Cascio tracks in total? Thats 3 per album. Sony have also spaced out these tracks on the first album i.e. tracks 3, 5 and 7. Coincidence?

Finally, I think the Jackson family has had a massive outcry because they do not want these tracks released.

I think it is Michaels voice on the tracks but in real demo form. The voice has been processed to the point where it is almost unrecognizable and here we are. These 3 tracks should never have been released whether it is or isn't Michael.

Such a shame.

 

[Arklove]

^^ samhabib, I agree with you...I listen to these YT vids and it's painfully obvious who's singing...It's hard to deny it; I don't know how someone can...

and to be completely honest, listening to those videos sickens me....:no:

 

[samhabib]

^^ samhabib, I agree with you...I listen to these YT vids and it's painfully obvious who's singing...It's hard to deny it; I don't know how someone can...

and to be completely honest, listening to those videos sickens me....:no:

It sickens me that people think that the vocalist sounds MORE like Michael Jackson - of whom we have HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS of records to compare with - and LESS like Jason Malachi - of whom we have fewer tracks to compare to but which all sound almost identical.

It's like people don't want to use their own ears. That's not enough for them. They have to look at some other way in which it's 'Michael Jackson' vocals. Use your ears. The proof is there for those that A. want to know and B. who really care.

 

[mjcy]

Have just heard these videos. Nice and concise. They are absolutely damning. The vocalist is CLEARLY Jason Malachi. It's a bit ridiculous for some fans to keep saying 'until you've got some proof...'.

THIS is proof. Some people just don't want to see it for what it is. It's absolutely damning proof that the vocalist on all of these clips are the same man... ie, NOT Michael Jackson.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh4iafqCIqk

I know, it's so obvious.

And some clips of Malachi are being removed from YouTube now "due to a copyright claim by Jason Malachi". The guy has sold 2 albums in total and he's making copyright claims now?!?!

Have a look: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvXpMSamOZY

Pfffff! So damn obvious $ONY is behind all this!

 

[Korgnex]

^ It's rather obvious that Jason is ripping off the MJ fans as his "career" is only based on illogical assumptions and wrong association with Michael Jackson (false tagging of his songs).


He's just exploiting those that think it would be him singing the Cascio tracks.

 

[samhabib]

I know, it's so obvious.

And some clips of Malachi are being removed from YouTube now "due to a copyright claim by Jason Malachi". The guy has sold 2 albums in total and he's making copyright claims now?!?!

Have a look: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvXpMSamOZY

Pfffff! So damn obvious $ONY is behind all this!

Of course. Why else would they be so quick to remove these videos? They haven't removed 'Jason Malachi' videos for the last 10 years or so... but suddenly they're trigger happy? It's completely damning.

 

[noa2]

There's also a huge difference between sounding different and not sounding as...