Christian Members

[MJLoverForEver]

As Christians what's your opinion on gay marriage?

Hey,
As Christian, here is a response from the source- the bible

Is called the guilty of Humankind. Romans 1:18-32
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and wickedness of those who by their wickedness suppress the truth. For what can be known abut God is plain to them. Ever sine the creation of the world his eternal power and divine nature, invisible though they are, have been understood and seen through the things he has made. So, they are without excuse; for though they knew God, they did not honor him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their senseless minds were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools and they exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling a mortal animals or reptiles.
Therefore God gave them UP in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the degrading of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever Amen.
For this reason, God gave them up to degrading passions. Their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, and in the same way also men giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another.
Since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind and to things that should not be done. They were filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, covetousness and malice. Full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, craftiness, they are gossips, slanders, God haters, insolent, haughty, boastful, investors of evil, rebellious towards parents, foolish, faithless, heartless and ruthless. They know God’s decree that those who practice such things deserve to die- yet they not only do them but even applaud others who practice them

Addition:

I am very touched with the tragedy of young fellows in school. The world is going wrong. Poeple are confused of who they are and what they were meant to be- to love one another, take care of each other around the world and the planet in general. But I guess when we are wicked, everything doesn't make sense at all. Not only do we destroy the earth and everything in it, including ourselves in every manner possible.
God be with the victims and heal the world by giving us understanding.

 

[Victory22]

Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)

Hi, I'm a strong believer also in the Lord Jesus Christ. Getting to know him is the best thing thats ever happened to me. Thank you for starting this thread.

 

[Alma]

Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)

Hi, I'm a strong believer also in the Lord Jesus Christ. Getting to know him is the best thing thats ever happened to me. Thank you for starting this thread.

So sweet and heartwarming. ..

 

[Earth_Song1]

Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)

The Bible says it's wrong, and marriage is between a man and a woman, so that's it in a nutshell for me.

 

[Earth_Song1]

Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)

Glad you are here. I started this thread, I am just sorry that I can't be in here enough. I run two groups, one a suicide support group, so my time is consumed, but I am thankful that you all keep it going.

 

[Alma]

Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)

Glad you are here. I started this thread, I am just sorry that I can't be in here enough. I run two groups, one a suicide support group, so my time is consumed, but I am thankful that you all keep it going.

How wonderful of you to provide this kind of help to others. Best wishes with your abnegational efforts.

 

[Roosje]

Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)

To those answering with anti-gay quotes: Isn't this Old Testament though? I always wonder why the teachings of the Old Testament are mostly seen as overruled (or properly explained) by the New Testament, except for this one hateful note. I can't understand why Christians want to stress this point so much, when Jesus was about love for all of humanity. Oh well, I will not mingle any further in this non-debate thread as, although I am a believer, I am also allergic to condemning other people in the name of God. That is just not right. And yes according to me, gays may marry and adopt, as long as love is their main reason to do so. I'm out.

 

[serena williams]

Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)

To those answering with anti-gay quotes: Isn't this Old Testament though? I always wonder why the teachings of the Old Testament are mostly seen as overruled (or properly explained) by the New Testament, except for this one hateful note. I can't understand why Christians want to stress this point so much, when Jesus was about love for all of humanity. Oh well, I will not mingle any further in this non-debate thread as, although I am a believer, I am also allergic to condemning other people in the name of God. That is just not right. And yes according to me, gays may marry and adopt, as long as love is their main reason to do so. I'm out.

I corinthiens 6 9 is part of the new testament

People can think or believe whatever they want to believe
I shape my thoughts to the Bible' principles to build my life
and i stick strictly to the Bible and the bible ( ALL the Bible ) says that Homsexuality is not a good thing

I am not going to feel guilty for thinking the same way as the Bible

But good for you if you think differentely

 

[serena williams]

That is if he exists which he probably doesn't but I'm not gonna argue with christians his existance because it's easy to point out the obvious and say that he isn't real, it's making christians accept it that's the hard part.

I didnt see NOTHING in your posts nor other non-believers posts which prove that God doesnt exist
Believe me if i see your evidence it will be the most easy for me to abandon this belief

I dont nkow why i would believe in something i am sure is not true ,i am not stupid (nor the other believers ) unless you are thinking that we are ? which would become an insult that i would take pleasure to immediately report , understand ?

 

[Alma]

Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)

This thread is for believers only.

 

[ginvid]

Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)

People can think or believe whatever they want to believe
I shape my thoughts to the Bible' principles to build my life
and i stick strictly to the Bible and the bible ( ALL the Bible ) says that Homsexuality is not a good thing

I am not going to feel guilty for thinking the same way as the Bible

But good for you if you think differentely

This

This thread is for believers only.

And this! Thank you.

 

[Roosje]

Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)

I corinthiens 6 9 is part of the new testament

People can think or believe whatever they want to believe
I shape my thoughts to the Bible' principles to build my life
and i stick strictly to the Bible and the bible ( ALL the Bible ) says that Homsexuality is not a good thing

I am not going to feel guilty for thinking the same way as the Bible

But good for you if you think differentely

My Bible translation doesn't read 'homosexuals' in this place but a word is used that alludes more to prostitution with a minor - 'catamites'. I would at least argue that this sentence is not easy to interpret as it seems all things mentioned before it would hurt someone (the one betrayed or abused) but in a loving relationship between two people noone gets hurt, would they? So why would you oppose? I truly don't understand what harm it does? I understand fear of homosexuality in those times, as it would maybe pose a threat to the future existence of the human species and the order of society, and even though that was not really realisticly a problem back then, it sure isn't nowadays. Let's agree to disagree, but I would like to intrepret the words of the Bible as solely expressing wisdom, love and goodness. If the scriptures would instill prejudice in me they would not offer me any enlightenment whatsoever. Which to me is the purpose of religion: a better understanding of God's big plan of love and a unified world. Condemning other people is not going to get us there, I'm afraid.

 

[serena williams]

Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)

My Bible translation doesn't read 'homosexuals' in this place but a word is used that alludes more to prostitution with a minor - 'catamites'. I would at least argue that this sentence is not easy to interpret as it seems all things mentioned before it would hurt someone (the one betrayed or abused) but in a loving relationship between two people noone gets hurt, would they? So why would you oppose? I truly don't understand what harm it does? I understand fear of homosexuality in those times, as it would maybe pose a threat to the future existence of the human species and the order of society, and even though that was not really realisticly a problem back then, it sure isn't nowadays. Let's agree to disagree, but I would like to intrepret the words of the Bible as solely expressing wisdom, love and goodness. If the scriptures would instill prejudice in me they would not offer me any enlightenment whatsoever. Which to me is the purpose of religion: a better understanding of God's big plan of love and a unified world. Condemning other people is not going to get us there, I'm afraid.

Can you quote me the sentence of your own bible please i am pretty sure that its a word synonym of "homosexual"

As i said you above if you thin that homosexuality is not a problem then good for you
I think the contrary and i dont want to feel guilty about my opinion because the "spirit" of the world below pressure people to think another way
I prefer trusting the spirit of Jesus who is all about love and goodness therefore if him and God said us that homosexuality is a not a good thing then i will believe in them because they are the supremes and know better than us why they say what they say about this issue

 

[kindofdisco]

Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)

I prefer trusting the spirit of Jesus who is all about love and goodness

But you'll condemn love and goodness between two people? Funny. I don't see God walking down here among us telling homosexuals that they can't be in love.

 

[AndreyZidane™]

Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)

But you'll condemn love and goodness between two people? Funny. I don't see God walking down here among us telling homosexuals that they can't be in love.

Indeed! See, that's what I'm talking about. I personally find it hard to believe in something that's not only very unrealistic and dated but basically contradicts itself over and over again, yet still claiming to be "the perfect word of 'a God' "... THE GOD, as a matter of fact.

 

[kindofdisco]

Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)

Truth be told I'm wasting my time in a thread like this, but when I see injustice against human beings - which I'll remind you we ALL are - I have to step in and say something. Let people love whoever they please, they're not hurting anybody at all. I thought love was the highest form of praise to God, but all I'm seeing are people condemning it.

 

[Roosje]

Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)

Can you quote me the sentence of your own bible please i am pretty sure that its a word synonym of "homosexual"

As i said you above if you thin that homosexuality is not a problem then good for you
I think the contrary and i dont want to feel guilty about my opinion because the "spirit" of the world below pressure people to think another way
I prefer trusting the spirit of Jesus who is all about love and goodness therefore if him and God said us that homosexuality is a not a good thing then i will believe in them because they are the supremes and know better than us why they say what they say about this issue

My Bible is in Dutch, so you wouldn't understand (I assume), but it reads:

Vergis u niet. Ontuchtplegers noch afgodendienaars, overspeligen, schandknapen noch knapenschenders, dieven noch geldwolven, dronkaards, lasteraars noch uitbuiters zullen deel hebben aan het koninkrijk van God.

When I studied old Greek I was surprised to learn that the first meaning of 'virgo' is 'young girl' and not 'virgin', the way Maria is described in the Bible. I'm not saying one translation is better than the other, but things do get lost in translation and get twisted in it. Even the book of God is susceptable to human translation mistakes. Do you know the example of Mozes portrayed with horns in several paintings and sculptures, because his 'corona' was translated with 'horned' for centuries instead of 'with aura'.

Also, I must ad, that Paul is my least favorite writer in the Bible. He was like a modernday hardliner, which was probably needed to grow the Christian community, but it was not always coherent with Jezus' ways and teachings in my opinion. Paul was always very extreme, in his disbelief as well as in his 'interpretation' of his newfound belief. I may sound radical to some who were raised to accept the entire Bible blindly, but I don't think this is possible due to interpretation and translation issues that every single written text deals with. That by no means suggests that I don't take God's message seriously, but when a translation or interpretation would pass judgement on people who do not harm anyone, I just can't see how that could ever be right. When according to some interpretations I should have to condemn or hate certain people, I feel it's wrong because Jezus never did such a thing. "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone".

 

[Alma]

Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)

This thread is for believers only. Some of you are having fun on here, it seems.

 

[Alma]

Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)

Truth be told I'm wasting my time in a thread like this, but when I see injustice against human beings - which I'll remind you we ALL are - I have to step in and say something. Let people love whoever they please, they're not hurting anybody at all. I thought love was the highest form of praise to God, but all I'm seeing are people condemning it.

You are wasting your time, obviously. Be gone, please, and learn to really interpret the Bible and God, that's tough to do and it's being done with a purpose. Tough for me, as well, who have started reading the Bible. But those who have eyes will see, will be proven what they see, and those who have ears will hear. And listen. And understand.

 

[Alma]

Indeed! See, that's what I'm talking about. I personally find it hard to believe in something that's not only very unrealistic and dated but basically contradicts itself over and over again, yet still claiming to be "the perfect word of 'a God' "... THE GOD, as a matter of fact.

Why are you here, then, to stir things out? Isn't the atheist thread enough for some of you to be inflitrating this non-debate? Such a shame, because you're coming from a place filled with believers and sacred churches and monasteries, the same I'm coming from.. Yeah, really sad, it's irrelevant, but very sad, still. Keep learning. I, and quite a few others, are, we're not 100 years old, even if we were a thousand years old, we still haven't learned much . ..

 

[LindavG]

Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)

My Bible is in Dutch, so you wouldn't understand (I assume), but it reads:

Vergis u niet. Ontuchtplegers noch afgodendienaars, overspeligen, schandknapen noch knapenschenders, dieven noch geldwolven, dronkaards, lasteraars noch uitbuiters zullen deel hebben aan het koninkrijk van God.

What is the English version of this text? I've never read the Bible but I always assumed it condemned homosexuals specifically as it was quoted as such. But the part you just wrote does not say "homosexuals" but rather "abusers" or "violaters" and lists them in the same line as thieves, drunks and fornicators (i.e. those who cause harm to others). It is old Dutch but literally, a "schandknaap" means a male prostitute and a "knapenschender" is somebody who rapes/violates boys or men. That is way different from being in a homosexual relationship.

That just shows how translation can have a huge impact on our interpretation of a certain text, which is why some religions (such as Islam) do not allow official translations of their holy scriptures.

 

[Roosje]

Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)

What is the English version of this text? I've never read the Bible but I always assumed it condemned homosexuals specifically as it was quoted as such. But the part you just wrote does not say "homosexuals" but rather "abusers" or "violaters" and lists them in the same line as thieves, drunks and fornicators (i.e. those who cause harm to others). It is old Dutch but literally, a "schandknaap" means a male prostitute and a "knapenschender" is somebody who rapes/violates boys or men. That is way different from being in a homosexual relationship.

That just shows how translation can have a huge impact on our interpretation of a certain text, which is why some religions (such as Islam) do not allow official translations of their holy scriptures.

Exactly my point. This is the official Nieuwe Bijbelvertaling from a few years ago. In this thread I've already seen three different English translations of this particular sentence, so this only proves the point even more that translation and interpretation are vital to understand a text but sadly the people interpreting them for the masses (e.g. priests) often choose the most intolerant of interpretations.

 

[AndreyZidane™]

Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)

Why are you here, then, to stir things out? Isn't the atheist thread enough for some of you to be inflitrating this non-debate? Such a shame, because you're coming from a place filled with believers and sacred churches and monasteries, the same I'm coming from.. Yeah, really sad, it's irrelevant, but very sad, still. Keep learning. I, and quite a few others, are, we're not 100 years old, even if we were a thousand years old, we still haven't learned much . ..

I get it, you're ignoring everything I and kindofdisco said, you didn't responde to our "uneducated" posts (besides of felling sorry for our lost souls and telling us to leave), the typical christian silance. I'll leave now since it's obvious I'm waisting my time here but I just wanted to let you know that I don't need your pitty. And just because I live in a 80% orthodox and 19% catholic country doesn't mean that I have to one of the two. I have the right to believe/disbelief anything I want, just as much as everybody in this world. I basically live in a country that's full of racism, segregation, homophobia, injustice, coruption and general stupidity. Thrust me, religion is the last thing I need to worry about.

 

[MJLoverForEver]

someone wrote,

To those answering with anti-gay quotes: Isn't this Old Testament though?

Romans 1:18-32 Please read it and this is not OLD testimony
Therefore God gave them UP in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the degrading of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever Amen.
For this reason, God gave them up to degrading passions. Their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, and in the same way also men giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another.
Since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind and to things that should not be done. They were filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, covetousness and malice. Full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, craftiness, they are gossips, slanders, God haters, insolent, haughty, boastful, investors of evil, rebellious towards parents, foolish, faithless, heartless and ruthless. They know God’s decree that those who practice such things deserve to die- yet they not only do them but even applaud others who practice them.

another wrote,

I can't understand why Christians want to stress this point so much, when Jesus was about love for all of humanity
Jesus came to over-turn the Old Testament, to turn a new leaf, so to speak. He was all about love, acceptance and forgiveness

.

You are right. Jesus was ans is ALL about LOVE and I don’t think anybody here is saying the contrary. I think people are confusing between LOVE and relationship between two people, although the relationship will and should base on LOVE. But each time we talk about LOVE is not about act of LOVE. For example, the LOVE we have for Michael is phenomenal. Does it mean we can make love with him? No. There are limits. But I can assure you that I (and I am sure you do too) LOVE Michael very much, I love my father whom I had no chance to see, my mother who went through so much to save my live while sacrificing hers. I can go on with the list. And here I really talking about true LOVE, really LOVE. So, marrying someone is not the only way of showing LOVE to them; I can tell you that, todate, there are very few marriages that are only based on LOVE. It is always a combination of many factors and reasons-believe on this. Actually, Michael is so far the only one who had understood marriage by LOVE only. Many people said that when LMP left, Michael should have tried to win her back. You can always bring a camel to a river, but you can’t force it to drink the water”. At the end, we have what Michael said “ Kind of selfish LOVE”

Another wrote-

Let people love whoever they please, they're not hurting anybody at all

Ofcourse they are not hurting anyone. But remember, every sin before God does not involve hurting someone or anyone except God himself. Example is those who worship Idols. In fact, they do it secretly, NO ONE will be able to see them to be hurt. But does it mean is a good thing before God and Jesus? Absolutely not. Wrong is wrong. It doesn’t have to involve people. At the same time, they are people who don’t want to see sin dominating among people, those who believe and follow what Jesus taught us; this way, they are hurt, since the spirit of God in them, can’t be happy to see what is happening to the people of this earth, particularly when cover up is involved, which mean, more people may fall onto the trap thinking they are doing a right thing.

 

[Alma]

I get it, you're ignoring everything I and kindofdisco said, you didn't responde to our "uneducated" posts (besides of felling sorry for our lost souls and telling us to leave), the typical christian silance. I'll leave now since it's obvious I'm waisting my time here but I just wanted to let you know that I don't need your pitty. And just because I live in a 80% orthodox and 19% catholic country doesn't mean that I have to one of the two. I have the right to believe/disbelief anything I want, just as much as everybody in this world. I basically live in a country that's full of racism, segregation, homophobia, injustice, coruption and general stupidity. Thrust me, religion is the last thing I need to worry about.

Fine, don't worry about it, then. ... Silence? We're the ones falling on deaf ears, yes, those non-'lost' souls, when trying to explain whatever. It's not up to believers to be explaining everything, since we're not taken into consideration. We're not. How can some teach others about the Bible teachings and about God, when some don't believe in any whatsoever. Why even bother, right? Some are not at all interested in that.. Explain what exactly? Give you scientific proves for that He exists? Do you not understand that not even science can explain the powers of the unseen and use all sorts of theories to fill up this 'void'? As for the Bible, It is filled with parables and words of wisdom and it takes perseverance and practice and other Christian books of interpretation to completely understand that. Many are complaining on that Bible is mysoginistic, homophobic, cruel and vengeful etc, when it is simply presenting righteousness in the highest form. God is the only real judge, but He's also immensely merciful, not to mention He keeps suffering for us and the terrible things we say or do, but, of course, the non-believers are gonna laugh this off and act indignant and everything. ... Why? Direct your anger towards those people who are ruling over us all and pretending to want the best for us and only serving themselves, they're the ones who are ruining the planet and our inability to expose them and boycott them, because in a technotronic era, we're just mostly being programmed and kept in fear. The religion they're promoting is the so-called reason (vs. belief) and it's sure working.

This thread is a non-debate for believers, not non-believers, isn't that clear...? What do you expect..?

 

[MsCassieMollie]

I'm so sorry that my question caused such a heated debate. I apologize. Anyways I found this from a friend of Michael about his salvation as Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior:

"There are a thousand ways I could word this but frankly I am tired of trying to find just the right words. I have been following this site for weeks. I have read each of these posts as well as those on other sites. I have remained silent and wonder if I should continue to be silent. However, I believe as long as I am protecting Michael’s privacy, even posthumously, God and even Michael would want me to share the following. I have never and will never do interviews, I will never divulge my identity as I have not for many years. Some will believe what I will say here, some will not, that is between you and God. It is not my responsibility to convince anyone of anything. I believe that you are all my sisters (and brothers) here in the faith and for that I am thankful. I am grateful that we all agree and acknowledge Jesus Christ, as Savior, as Lord, as the only hope for our lives, as the very reason we live and breathe and share this good news as He asks we do.

There is not other way to says this than to just say it straight to all of your here “my family” in the body of Christ.

Michael and I were friends for many years. I was involved in the trial. I have witnessed, like others, the loving and devoted father he was. I have shared many times with him and his family. We have had many private conversations.

Although I have been asked, I apologize, but I would not share the details of those conversations any more than I would talks with any other friend as that would be gossip and betray the designed, intended intrinsic trust of friendship.

Based on the aforementioned and other details, I can tell you all with absolute certainty that Michael had accepted Jesus Christ, understood who He is and had given His life to Him.

I will not disclose dates, words or reasons that it may or may not match what the world saw publicly.

Just after his passing, it mattered to me that the world knew, that the church was made aware. Somehow, after much prayer, it doesn’t seem to matter anymore. It mattered at first to show the world, to convince the skeptics in the church who “didn’t see fruit” or doubted that someone like Michael could be saved. (absurdly like “someone” like any of us deserves it more) I ask that not as Pharisees or Sadducees but as people who have been saved by grace and not of ourselves. I ask that as redeemed people, each of us, respectively able to give unique testimony of how God reached to us in the mud and mire of our lives and never gave up on us, I ask that you accept this truth. If you want proof, you will have to wrestle with why you must have it and ask God why you must.

If someone told you that a neighbor you had known for years had died but was saved and you had not known that, you would rejoice and not doubt. But truly God’s own people wrongly and self righteously judged Michael on numerous occasions.

I miss him terribly and our family is beyond saddened as we grieve primarily for his children, his family and other friends who were blessed… not to have known a well known individual but to have shared this life with a beautiful, yet misunderstood human being.

I have peace in knowing that God in His mercy decided there would be no music ministry, no imminent public profession to be torn apart (by the church) and that God didn’t even deem it necessary that the world be notified of anything. God’s love for us is one on One. It is quintessentially personal and goes deeper than any love we can fathom. Glory only to God the Father that this unfathomable love took home a son, that Michael is now free from his chronic physical pain and emotional anguish. I thank God that I lived to witness his salvation, I am humbled beyond expression that God loves us as He does and asks that we do the same for each other. I praise Him for all of you that you faithfully continue to speak His words in a dark and dying world where the harvest is ripe and the workers are too few…… thanks for reading.

In All That Jesus Is

Jess (pseudonym)
Posted in response to the Sisters of the Faith website

 

[Earth_Song1]

Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)

Hello! I am the creator of this thread and due to a lot of things that take up the time that I could spend online, I am here to ask that you all stop making this a debate. It clearly states non debate thread. I have never gone into other threads and posted stuff that I do not agree with. I have seen others have posted in the athiests thread, and if you do not share their views, do not go in there and stir the pot, and I kindly ask that of those who do not believe in Christ, please do not post in this thread to try and debate our beliefs. I kindly ask this.

Thank you!

And fellow believers, don't start stuff in their threads. You don't like it done here, please don't do it there.

 

[Roosje]

someone wrote,

Romans 1:18-32 Please read it and this is not OLD testimony
Therefore God gave them UP in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the degrading of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever Amen.
For this reason, God gave them up to degrading passions. Their women exchanged natural intercourse for unnatural, and in the same way also men giving up natural intercourse with women, were consumed with passion for one another.
Since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind and to things that should not be done. They were filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, covetousness and malice. Full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, craftiness, they are gossips, slanders, God haters, insolent, haughty, boastful, investors of evil, rebellious towards parents, foolish, faithless, heartless and ruthless. They know God’s decree that those who practice such things deserve to die- yet they not only do them but even applaud others who practice them.

another wrote,.

You are right. Jesus was ans is ALL about LOVE and I don’t think anybody here is saying the contrary. I think people are confusing between LOVE and relationship between two people, although the relationship will and should base on LOVE. But each time we talk about LOVE is not about act of LOVE. For example, the LOVE we have for Michael is phenomenal. Does it mean we can make love with him? No. There are limits. But I can assure you that I (and I am sure you do too) LOVE Michael very much, I love my father whom I had no chance to see, my mother who went through so much to save my live while sacrificing hers. I can go on with the list. And here I really talking about true LOVE, really LOVE. So, marrying someone is not the only way of showing LOVE to them; I can tell you that, todate, there are very few marriages that are only based on LOVE. It is always a combination of many factors and reasons-believe on this. Actually, Michael is so far the only one who had understood marriage by LOVE only. Many people said that when LMP left, Michael should have tried to win her back. You can always bring a camel to a river, but you can’t force it to drink the water”. At the end, we have what Michael said “ Kind of selfish LOVE”

Another wrote-


Ofcourse they are not hurting anyone. But remember, every sin before God does not involve hurting someone or anyone except God himself. Example is those who worship Idols. In fact, they do it secretly, NO ONE will be able to see them to be hurt. But does it mean is a good thing before God and Jesus? Absolutely not. Wrong is wrong. It doesn’t have to involve people. At the same time, they are people who don’t want to see sin dominating among people, those who believe and follow what Jesus taught us; this way, they are hurt, since the spirit of God in them, can’t be happy to see what is happening to the people of this earth, particularly when cover up is involved, which mean, more people may fall onto the trap thinking they are doing a right thing.

The text from Romans you quoted could be interpreted as a text condemning wild passion without being in a relationship, e.g. sleeping around. I am a 'beginner' Christian so to speak, hopping churches and what not, but this kind of persistance on texts that could be explained hateful against a group in society just really turns me off. I find no wisdom in being so judgemental whatsoever. If I read the gospels I certainly do, but Paul and his staccato sets of rules seem to be the only thing that come up in debates. There is so much more to get out of the Bible, but somehow these little hateful notes seem to be he only things that are worth mentioning and the only things that come up in debates. It's a pity and sometimes I feel like the Christian community for a great part is the Pharizeers all over again. Get to the point please. I must say this thread and other Christian talk has put me off from Christianity a bit, not from God of course, but just the clique who claim to know how to interpretet him. Sometimes I feel like I'm reading a different Bible than them. Oh well, I will not interupt this thread any further as it seems not appreciated to talk about different interpretations and their consequences. Bye!

 

[Alma]

Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)

I'm so sorry that my question caused such a heated debate. I apologize. Anyways I found this from a friend of Michael about his salvation as Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior:

Wow... Thank you very much for sharing this, Cassie.. you've no idea how much this means to some of us... When was this message posted, if you know...? Thanks again. ...

 

[MsCassieMollie]

Re: Any Believers in Jesus Christ Here? (Non-debate thread for believers only)

Wow... Thank you very much for sharing this, Cassie.. you've no idea how much this means to some of us... When was this message posted, if you know...? Thanks again. ...

You're very welcome Alma. This message was posted in various Christian websites around mid-late 2009.