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Controversial MJ Documentary Leaving Neverland [GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD]

People who thinks us MJ fans are “crazy”, they’re the real crazy ones. They’re the crazy ones, not us. Just “stone cold” em’ off.
 
Anna;4287431 said:
For goodness sake, as I've already said, the behaviour I'm talking about is all the close relationships with young boys and letting kids sleep in his room and his bed. Some of you keep talking about the details and why it wasn't dodgy. I know the details, I know it wasn't dodgy! That's not my point. My point is that it looks like paedophile behaviour to the rest of society and Michael knew this.

Michael is responsible for his own actions and choices and the results.
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For goodness sake, I don’t agree with your narrative. You CONTINUE to say things like “close relationships with young BOYS and letting kids sleep on his rom and bed”. That is the kind of thing that the media spews because of cretins like Dieam DEMONd.These are the LIES that are used to brainwash a guillible public. I just didn’t know fans would fall for that.

Why aren’t you adding the DETAILS and FACTS that would tear this manipulation down. The DETAILS contain the FACTS. The facts are that Michael has close relationships with GIRLS and BOYS and all of those children AND their PARENTS were welcomed into Michael’s suite. The bottomline is that REAL pedophiles would never have been as open as Michael was around children. Of course, some people have been manipulated by the media’s portrayal. Most REAL pedophiles are fathers, grandfathers, uncle, priest, coaches, next door neighbors and even mothers, aunts, etc. I have a friend who says she was molested at church when she was 5 years old by a WOMAN. These are the so-called “normal” people who are the REAL pedophiles

Therefore, I am not going to sit around and accept that narrative that the media and sadly some fans promote. Btw, some seem to think that when a fan passionately disagrees with that tabloid narrative that he/she is over reacting. That seems to only apply if you are a Michael Jackson fan. Other artist’s fans react the same way, and people accept it. FTR, I have always been passionate about justice and the falsely accused. It doesn’t matter if it’s Michael or anyone else. Right is right and wrong is wrong. I will not accept manipulations from fans or haters.

Let’s agree to disagree. That’s fine. You can still have your opinion and I will still have mine. Peace!!
 
PoP;4287449 said:
People who thinks us MJ fans are “crazy”, they’re the real crazy ones. They’re the crazy ones, not us. Just “stone cold” em’ off.
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Never ever worry about what haters think of Michael Jackson fans. Have you ever seen how Prince, Beyoncé, Janet, Elvis, Madonna and other artists’ fans react and defend them against negativity. The haters who call MJ fans crazy are deploying a tactic of reverse psychology. They THINK if they belittle MJ fans that they will shame or dissuade them from defending Michael. DON’T FALL FOR THAT WEAK PLOY. I have been going through that with haters for 30+ years. Guess what that little ploy of the haters has only made me stronger and MORE supportive . I don’t think that kind of thing has ever worked with fans my age. It seems to bother the newer and younger fans more.Nowever, MJfans are the BEST, MOST INTELLIGENT and AWARE fans in the world. Being a MJ fan is never boring and I wouldn’t trade that fandom for any other artist.
 
I have a feeling I started all this bickering among fans, I'm sorry about that, I didn't mean to divise us.
 
somewhereinthedark;4287474 said:
Never ever worry about what haters think of Michael Jackson fans. Have you ever seen how Prince, Beyoncé, Janet, Elvis, Madonna and other artists’ fans react and defend them against negativity. The haters who call MJ fans crazy are deploying a tactic of reverse psychology. They THINK if they belittle MJ fans that they will shame or dissuade them from defending Michael. DON’T FALL FOR THAT WEAK PLOY. I have been going through that with haters for 30+ years. Guess what that little ploy of the haters has only made me stronger and MORE supportive . I don’t think that kind of thing has ever worked with fans my age. It seems to bother the newer and younger fans more.Nowever, MJfans are the BEST, MOST INTELLIGENT and AWARE fans in the world. Being a MJ fan is never boring and I wouldn’t trade that fandom for any other artist.
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Well that’s how I fought back, if they call us crazy, they’re the ones crazy and I call em that right back. I never back down to anything, even if it means defend Michael 24/7 I can and I will.

JichaelMackson;4287477 said:
I have a feeling I started all this bickering among fans, I'm sorry about that, I didn't mean to divise us.
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Trust me, you’re not divising anyone. We have agreements and disagreements.
 
Michael loved everyone and respected everyone. he had a different heart you rarely see. he would of help you anyway he could to make fans or non fans happy. he had strong good heart.

Michael was an introvert. (just like me.) introverts tend to like their own space and talk to people etc when they want too. he was also very shy.

his mom raise him right. to have respect and manners etc.

bless her.
 
It's seem everyone has their own opinions and point of view of this. in my opinion and point of view. there was nothing wrong with Michael in anyway. he loved children and fantasy.

there's no harm to that. through let's be real here some people may find it strange. but in reality it was perfectly fine. now there are people who twist up things because they cruel and evil and like the tabloids, for money. like Michael always said burn the tabloids.

everyone is different and have their own interests what maybe strange to someone else maybe perfectly okay to another. nobody "normal".

i go to therapy and my therapist said the samething. even therapists said the samething about Michael too as well.

b21f909600775102ed4a61664fc84ccc.jpg
 
somewhereinthedark;4287469 said:
For goodness sake, I don’t agree with your narrative. You CONTINUE to say things like “close relationships with young BOYS and letting kids sleep on his rom and bed”. That is the kind of thing that the media spews because of cretins like Dieam DEMONd.These are the LIES that are used to brainwash a guillible public. I just didn’t know fans would fall for that.

Why aren’t you adding the DETAILS and FACTS that would tear this manipulation down. The DETAILS contain the FACTS. The facts are that Michael has close relationships with GIRLS and BOYS and all of those children AND their PARENTS were welcomed into Michael’s suite. The bottomline is that REAL pedophiles would never have been as open as Michael was around children. Of course, some people have been manipulated by the media’s portrayal. Most REAL pedophiles are fathers, grandfathers, uncle, priest, coaches, next door neighbors and even mothers, aunts, etc. I have a friend who says she was molested at church when she was 5 years old by a WOMAN. These are the so-called “normal” people who are the REAL pedophiles

Therefore, I am not going to sit around and accept that narrative that the media and sadly some fans promote. Btw, some seem to think that when a fan passionately disagrees with that tabloid narrative that he/she is over reacting. That seems to only apply if you are a Michael Jackson fan. Other artist’s fans react the same way, and people accept it. FTR, I have always been passionate about justice and the falsely accused. It doesn’t matter if it’s Michael or anyone else. Right is right and wrong is wrong. I will not accept manipulations from fans or haters.

Let’s agree to disagree. That’s fine. You can still have your opinion and I will still have mine. Peace!!
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I think you are both right in a way. Michael was a bit different, excentric and because he was who he was an easy target. He was not good at explaining himself but it is the medias job to investigate, which they have never done they always did everything they could to portray him as guilty. Un unbiased media really should have reacted at that crazy EVANstory lawsuit and started investigating Evan Chandler in 96 or reacted like how the @#*_(_==!! could the Arvizo case go to trial and the started to investigate police corruption in SB so they clearly never did their job with a few exceptions.
 
It doesn't matter how much you try to bend it. 99% of the time someone who does what Michael did will turn out to be a paedophile. That is why he got screwed over, repeatedly. All the mental gymnastics in the world can't absolve a competent adult man of responsibility for his own behaviour.
 
Anna said:
It doesn't matter how much you try to bend it. 99% of the time someone who does what Michael did will turn out to be a paedophile. That is why he got screwed over, repeatedly. All the mental gymnastics in the world can't absolve a competent adult man of responsibility for his own behaviour.
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In my opinion there was something autism spectrumish over Michael. I am no expert and it is just my opinion. It has been discussed many times and usually causes a lot of critisism. I still stand for my opinion that it is the medias job to investigate facts though and they did not do it.
 
Anna;4287535 said:
It doesn't matter how much you try to bend it. 99% of the time someone who does what Michael did will turn out to be a paedophile. That is why he got screwed over, repeatedly. All the mental gymnastics in the world can't absolve a competent adult man of responsibility for his own behaviour.
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Interesting. Can we see a list of those (at least) 99 other people who “did what Michael did” and were found guilty? I’d love to look into their cases. I wasn’t aware there are so many others out there traveling the world with families they befriended and working their asses off to raise money for charity. Also interested in seeing all the other private amusement parks they built, and how they trained their staff to help children with disabilities enjoy the park. And all of this to hide their evil agenda.
 
Anna said:
It doesn't matter how much you try to bend it. 99% of the time someone who does what Michael did will turn out to be a paedophile. That is why he got screwed over, repeatedly. All the mental gymnastics in the world can't absolve a competent adult man of responsibility for his own behaviour.
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LOL, and 99.999% of people who wear an abaya in the middle east turn out to be women....

Of course Michael took full responsibility for his behaviour. He wasn't doing anything wrong. Parents were invited along too, and gave their permission for their kids to spend time with MJ. I guess 99% of paedophiles ask the parents along too?

Look at the photos of MJ in LN. The parents are mostly in the same photos, and other people (including the photographer) are also there.

It isn't MJ's fault that people LIE for money. He never expected them to do that. Would you expect your friends to turn around in 25 years' time and say that you or a member of your family assaulted them (without proof?) If we all lived our lives anticipating that someone who befriends us has evil motives, we'd never have friends, or get married, or go anywhere, or do anything...
 
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I think the point is that it was stupid of MJ to continue with this behaviour. Even after it already caused him problems once, doesn't really matter if he was doing anything wrong or not when it comes to how he was perceived, the perception is there for most people.
 
SmoothGangsta;4287555 said:
I think the point is that it was stupid of MJ to continue with this behaviour. Even after it already caused him problems once, doesn't really matter if he was doing anything wrong or not when it comes to how he was perceived, the perception is there for most people.
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What is this “most people” that I hear so often based upon? I haven’t been a fan until recently, so I came to this whole situation pretty unbiased, and at no point during my research I felt that anything was suspicious about MJ, when the big picture is taken into consideration. It’s the way the media portrayed MJ that raised suspicion. And now imagine he had changed his way of life after the first accusation – I guarantee the media would have interpreted it as admission of guilt, just like they interpreted the settlement as such. They would have kept portraying him as an abuser, no matter what. Classic catch-22 situation.

I mean, he did change after the trial. And it didn’t help with the whole situation at all.
 
SmoothGangsta said:
I think the point is that it was stupid of MJ to continue with this behaviour. Even after it already caused him problems once, doesn't really matter if he was doing anything wrong or not when it comes to how he was perceived, the perception is there for most people.
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I agree but I think Anna is wrong with the 99% comment. Real pedos do not invite families, do interviews to do in their homes for CAMERAS to look around like he did with Oprah, etc. I would believe Dan Reed is a pedo and the people who degrade MJ. They give the image of what most pedos are and how they behave. And these families chase MJ to be around him, not the other way around.
 
And again, People should judge on facts of a case, not a "perception". This is why we have so many people in prison for crimes they did not commit. That is my whole issue. Despite what someone THINK, that is no justification to tell a LIE about abuse when it did not happen. I just do not like it and it is wrong but it happens. It is like someone who wears hoody, with their pants down below their waist. Does that look apporiate? No; however that does NOT give no one the right to LIE and accused that person to be a criminal. Being a woman going to a man's home 2:00 am in the morning to take him work papers? Does that look good? No but that does not give anyone the right to violate her. That is my point and it happens too often people judge on "perception" and not facts. This is why schemers use it.
 
Anna said:
It doesn't matter how much you try to bend it. 99% of the time someone who does what Michael did will turn out to be a paedophile. That is why he got screwed over, repeatedly. All the mental gymnastics in the world can't absolve a competent adult man of responsibility for his own behaviour.
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It would be very difficult to find a case study that mirrors Michael Jackson's life.

Nonetheless, I do feel that Michael's conduct in life is the reason his legacy remains haunted. I just don't see how it's possible to get around that. The Leaving Neverland situation made me see that.

Michael was determined to live his life the way he wanted, and he refused to apologise or bend when society complained. That was his personality I think.
 
ScreenOrigami;4287540 said:
Interesting. Can we see a list of those (at least) 99 other people who “did what Michael did” and were found guilty? I’d love to look into their cases. I wasn’t aware there are so many others out there traveling the world with families they befriended and working their asses off to raise money for charity. Also interested in seeing all the other private amusement parks they built, and how they trained their staff to help children with disabilities enjoy the park. And all of this to hide their evil agenda.
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Don't be contrary with me. I'm talking generally, regarding his pattern of relationships with boys and letting kids sleep in his room, not every specific detail particular to Michael's life.


ScreenOrigami;4287557 said:
What is this “most people” that I hear so often based upon? I haven’t been a fan until recently, so I came to this whole situation pretty unbiased, and at no point during my research I felt that anything was suspicious about MJ, when the big picture is taken into consideration. It’s the way the media portrayed MJ that raised suspicion. And now imagine he had changed his way of life after the first accusation – I guarantee the media would have interpreted it as admission of guilt, just like they interpreted the settlement as such. They would have kept portraying him as an abuser, no matter what. Classic catch-22 situation.

I mean, he did change after the trial. And it didn’t help with the whole situation at all.
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We're not talking about the big picture, or all the details which the fans know. That's what you can't seem to grasp. We're talking about public perception based on their knowledge of Michael's known and admitted behaviour, which constitutes the facts in the most basic form. That behaviour enabled those leeches to come out with the fake allegations in the first place and make them seem instantly believable to the masses.
As for the trial, like I've already said, the trial was way too late.


SmoothGangsta;4287555 said:
I think the point is that it was stupid of MJ to continue with this behaviour. Even after it already caused him problems once, doesn't really matter if he was doing anything wrong or not when it comes to how he was perceived, the perception is there for most people.
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Yes, this is exactly my point. ****ing hell.
 
Anna;4287570 said:
Don't be contrary with me. I'm talking generally, regarding his pattern of relationships with boys and letting kids sleep in his room, not every specific detail particular to Michael's life.
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This is straight from the tabloids and does not in any way portray the actual circumstances. I’m surprised we’re even having this conversation here. Didn’t expect this when I came here a few months ago, as this whole thing is so easy to see through.
 
ScreenOrigami;4287572 said:
This is straight from the tabloids and does not in any way portray the actual circumstances. I’m surprised we’re even having this conversation here. Didn’t expect this when I came here a few months ago, as this whole thing is so easy to see through.
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Michael had close friendships with many boys. That is a fact, not tabloid gossip. These people have names and everything.
 
Anna;4287573 said:
Michael had close friendships with many boys. That is a fact, not tabloid gossip. These people have names and everything.
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A friendship is something else than a “pattern of relationships”. Involved in these friendships were whole families, not only “the boys”. This is all very well documented in the 2005 trial transcripts.
 
ScreenOrigami;4287574 said:
Involved in these friendships were whole families, not only “the boys”. This is all very well documented in the 2005 trial transcripts.
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Yes, I'm aware. But once again you're missing my point, which I've already stated many times.
 
ScreenOrigami;4287557 said:
And now imagine he had changed his way of life after the first accusation – I guarantee the media would have interpreted it as admission of guilt
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That's exactly what would have happened, the media would have had a field day with it.

Plus after he was first framed nothing could have prevented more copycat allegations, and that's actually proven now. Don't forget that according to R&S's "timeline" their abuse started before the Chandler case, so MJ changing his behaviour after 93 couldn't have prevented that.

The same with the Jane Doe accusation (if anyone still remember that...), who was actually... a GIRL!
 
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Anna;4287577 said:
Yes, I'm aware. But once again you're missing my point, which I've already stated many times.
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I’m seeing your point. I’m arguing that – once you portray the things as they actually were, and not through a tabloid filter – there was no reason for MJ to change anything. Because what would that have meant anyway? Cutting all ties with the families he befriended? Denying them access to his private quarters? Not letting his friends accompany him on tour, as part of an entourage of 100 or so people?
 
the fact that Michael continued being himself and being close to other kids (yes and BOOOOOYS) gets my biggest respect. Thats why I love and adore Michael. He did whatever he wanted to do because he was pure and innocent and didnt give a shit abut what other people, district attorneys or the media said. He alwas was real and never thought in such a pervert way as we, the normal people, often do.

Thats why I love michael. He continued helping and caring for boys. Unfortunately humans always see thing the evil or sexistish way. The problem is US, the MEDIA, the NORMAL people. NOT MICHAEL!

He should not have done that from our perspective. But he did, because he never had anything bad or criminal in mind. Thank you michael!
 
If Michael really was a pedo, after the 93' case do you really think he would be seen in public with kids again? If anything, the fact he continued to be friends with children says more about his innocence than anything. It would look more odd to me if he stooped being around kids altogether after 93' almost like there was something to hide. So the fact he didn't stop it speaks volumes. Of course average Joe public can't see it that way.
 
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