Coroners Report released - GRAPHIC CONTENT (Threads merged)

[Beachlover]

it is within the limit for general anethesia 4.1 is within the normal range 1,3-8.6 . the problem was lorazepam also . Lorazepam did play a big role in what happened . He did a very dangerous mix that day , I want to know why he used lorazepam that day , it did not work with MJ before , so why did he use it again?

His plan was to not use Propofol at all I think. Lorazepam/Ativan has other properties besides just sedation. So does Klonazepam which was prescribed and not shown on tox.

I posted a link about weaning off Propofol the other day in which it says to use Lorazepam?

There is a human factor (yes...even in Murray) here. I am not sure what his state of mind was when he was working that night. Was he over tired? Did he draw up too much (obviously...but...) and not realize this?

(and people....yes...I realize the man screwed up and covered up and all of that....but I am trying to figure out the most logical sequence of events is all I am trying to do)

I am also considering his behavior at times in his life and some of the medications he was taking has a side effect of rather paranoid, delusional behavior and it makes me wonder if thats why MJ was non compliant with some of the medication. (meaning...if he had that problem he would not want to take it and I can't blame him)

 

[Beachlover]

No, the next sentence is about the first medicine (valium) at 1.30 on the 25th.

Thanks. I think it is just a date screw up on top of a time line screw up on top of all the other inconsistencies.

(back to reading)

 

[Beachlover]

I hope to God NO 'fan' believed in this story, heck, I didn't even believe in this prior to becoming a fan and this prosthetic nose BS was around even back in 2001 and earlier.

There is one picture on the net that makes me cringe whenever I see it and I hope whoever photoshopped it gets crabs.

 

[Beachlover]

I hope I am making sense. I am going to explain about the burn in a bit. I am reading some information right now and will get back to the autopsy in a bit to piece that together for those that are asking.

As for the Lupus. I can only say this about it. There are two kinds of Lupus. Discoid and Systemic. There are plenty of sights that can explain each of them to you if you want to Google them for information but I will say this much. The autopsy did not define this as a diagnosis anywhere. If in fact he had Discoid this would not involve the lungs. Also, the medication he was taking for his skin can have been for other things too so I would not want to make any conclusion on that. (TwinklEE would be happy that I am not guessing here) :girl_happy:

 

[Autumn II]

It is pretty well-known that Michael had lupus (discoid lupus in the 80s, progressing to systemic lupus probably in the nineties sometime), but I'm not going to provide the proofs/links at this time (Dr's Klein and Hoefflin, etc). Doesn't really matter, though. The autopsy was just reporting on physical conditions that they found, but not causes. I don't think that that was within their scope.

 

[ForeverKOP]

Concerning his weight,
The exact same information was released a few months ago, and all the headlines said he was healthy at 136 pounds and 5'9 height! Besides the prescriptions, his body was healthy wasn't it? Now all the news stations are calling him "underweight". I thought his weight was in the normal range.

 

[Justthefacts]

He was within his BMI. It is not often you find a person that is so to ignorant people who know nothing that is underweight. And I entered Michael's weight and height into a BMI calculator and here it what it said.


Your BMI is 20.1

18.5 - 24.9 Healthy Weight For Most Adults According to medical experts, your weight falls into the healthy range, it represents the lowest level of risk for heart disease, diabetes and hypertension. To further reduce your risk, focus on healthy eating with a menu that is low in saturated fat, and rich in fruits, vegetables and whole grains, as well as staying active for life.* Congratulations to you if you have recently reduced your weight to this level; staying committed to your healthy lifestyle will help you maintain both your weight and your well-being.

 

[Beachlover]

I am just going to make a few posts with some information that I have pieced together to form a larger picture of things.

Investigator Elissa Fleak arrived at UCLA Medical Center at 1720 hours and did a body examination before leaving the hospital. At 1811 rigor mortis was not present throughout the body and lividity blanched with light pressure.

Immediately after death, the blood is "unfixed" and will move to other body parts if the body's position is changed. After a few hours, the pooled blood becomes "fixed" and will not move. Pressing on an area of discoloration can determine this; if it blanches (turns white) easily, then the blood remains unfixed. Livor mortis is usually most pronounced eight to twelve hours after death. The skin, no longer under muscular control, succumbs to gravity, forming new shapes and accentuating prominent bones still further. The body then begins to cool.

Rigor mortis begins within two to six hours of death, starting with the eyelids, neck, and jaw.

The next exam is 1000 on the morning of the 26th at the morgue.

 

[Beachlover]

I also thought all Propofol was hidden in the medical bag but now see that 1 empty bottle of Propofol and empty vial of flumazenil was found on the first visit by the LAPD.

 

[bouee]

by the way , he prescribed to him lorazepam on april, 28, 2009 , out of 30 tablets he used 21 . For him to use propofol obviously lorazepam did not work .

so why then did he decide to give it to him on june,25 ? Why did he believe it would work then ? and if lorazepam did not work , how could he believe diazepam would ? Is that man an idiot or what ? :smilerolleyes:
he knew non of these drugs was working but he kept prescribing them to him and asking him to take them , Murray probably was afraid MJ would give him the boot and wanted to make sure he became addicted to something pretty fast so he would continue to be his doctor . I have a feeling he was not that sure he was going to London .

this could maybe explain why Cherilyn Lee was called by Faheem Muhammad on father's day about the "one side of the body is hot, the other one is cold". According to her , Michael asked her for propofol on easter sunday (12th april), she refused, and never heard of him again until june 21st. If she tells the truth, where was Murray and why wasn't he called ? And why call her if she refused to give propofol ?
We can not know for now, there can be a lot of reasons, but maybe this is something to keep in mind, just in case.

 

[bouee]

I am just going to make a few posts with some information that I have pieced together to form a larger picture of things.

Investigator Elissa Fleak arrived at UCLA Medical Center at 1720 hours and did a body examination before leaving the hospital. At 1811 rigor mortis was not present throughout the body and lividity blanched with light pressure.

Immediately after death, the blood is "unfixed" and will move to other body parts if the body's position is changed. After a few hours, the pooled blood becomes "fixed" and will not move. Pressing on an area of discoloration can determine this; if it blanches (turns white) easily, then the blood remains unfixed. Livor mortis is usually most pronounced eight to twelve hours after death. The skin, no longer under muscular control, succumbs to gravity, forming new shapes and accentuating prominent bones still further. The body then begins to cool.

Rigor mortis begins within two to six hours of death, starting with the eyelids, neck, and jaw.

The next exam is 1000 on the morning of the 26th at the morgue.

thks for this. What are your conclusions ?

From what you stated about rigor mortis (two to six hours), if rigor mortis was not present at 18.11 then MJ was alive at 12, or close to 12 pm. From the beads on the bed, he was gone when the paramedics took him to the hospital, ie close to 1pm.

I am not sure I understand what you say about livor mortis, does it mean that livor mortis is when the blood is fixed ? What about the marks left by the beads, is it part of the same process ?

Now, it raises a few questions :
can this be altered by CPR and ressusitation attempts ? Livor mortis is based on the blood so would that change anything the heart is still pumping the blood through CPR ?

By the way, what do you think of a 40 mn ressusitation at home by the paramedics (who were taking orders from Murray), when it seems that the UCLA staff tried other things to ressusitate Michael (central lines, intra aortic ballon pump). Wouldn't have it been wiser to take him ASAP to the UCLA so these procedures could have been performed more quickly ?

I saw on this website that livor mortis could be altered by moving the body (down at the end of the page). For the sensitive people : don't go there, it's a bit graphic : http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/rigor-mortis-and-lividity.html .
I saw somewhere else (unfortunately I didn't save it and can't find it anymore...) that rigor mortis could also be altered by massaging the muscles (they were explaining that you do it, for example, to be able to put clothes on the body)

What do you (or any doctor, nurse on this forum, I'm aware that you work a lot on this forum ), what do you think of this possible alterations that would alter the time of death.

I also find it strange that there is no mention of the body temperature, though there is a mention of the ER room temperature.No mention either of the temperature in MJ's room.
Body temperature would be important to estimate the time of death, wouldn't it ? Or not in this case ? It doesn't look like it was edited out, but you never know.

I understand I'm asking a lot, I hope that you or anybody with the necessary knowledge can help.
Or maybe you can share your sources if you have reliable online sources so we can help.

Thks again for the work you're doing here.

 

[Beachlover]

thks for this. What are your conclusions ?

From what you stated about rigor mortis (two to six hours), if rigor mortis was not present at 18.11 then MJ was alive at 12, or close to 12 pm. From the beads on the bed, he was gone when the paramedics took him to the hospital, ie close to 1pm.

I am not sure I understand what you say about livor mortis, does it mean that livor mortis is when the blood is fixed ? What about the marks left by the beads, is it part of the same process ?

Now, it raises a few questions :
can this be altered by CPR and ressusitation attempts ? Livor mortis is based on the blood so would that change anything the heart is still pumping the blood through CPR ?

By the way, what do you think of a 40 mn ressusitation at home by the paramedics (who were taking orders from Murray), when it seems that the UCLA staff tried other things to ressusitate Michael (central lines, intra aortic ballon pump). Wouldn't have it been wiser to take him ASAP to the UCLA so these procedures could have been performed more quickly ?

I saw on this website that livor mortis could be altered by moving the body (down at the end of the page). For the sensitive people : don't go there, it's a bit graphic : http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/rigor-mortis-and-lividity.html .
I saw somewhere else (unfortunately I didn't save it and can't find it anymore...) that rigor mortis could also be altered by massaging the muscles (they were explaining that you do it, for example, to be able to put clothes on the body)

What do you (or any doctor, nurse on this forum, I'm aware that you work a lot on this forum ), what do you think of this possible alterations that would alter the time of death.

I also find it strange that there is no mention of the body temperature, though there is a mention of the ER room temperature.No mention either of the temperature in MJ's room.
Body temperature would be important to estimate the time of death, wouldn't it ? Or not in this case ? It doesn't look like it was edited out, but you never know.

I understand I'm asking a lot, I hope that you or anybody with the necessary knowledge can help.
Or maybe you can share your sources if you have reliable online sources so we can help.

Thks again for the work you're doing here.

You are welcome. I have been reading a lot of information from all over and using my own knowledge from experience.

I find many of your questions the same as mine. Why is there no mention of internal body temperature. This would be a better indicator of Time Of Death.

The beads on the bed are telling us that they were there while he was still living. It appears from Rigor Mortis that he was alive at 12. This is not exact but an estimation from what we know abour Rigor Mortis.

I believe when Livor Mortis is totally fixed the skin can not be blanched. His skin could be blanched at 1811.

Regarding resuscitation at home. This is why I question Murrays state of mind at the time this was all going on. Doing CPR is hard work alone. Having no air exchange is a major problem. Once the paramedics arrived they had the proper drugs to continue life saving techniques according to the standard of care. This is pretty much the same in and outside of the hospital. Minutes do count with these drugs being used too and I might have done the same thing. Since he was not hooked up to a heart monitor before the EMT's got there Dr Murray now knew he was asystole (without a heart beat). He would have wanted to fix that ASAP so the epinephrine and atropene were given. They did not work.

I know that people here think it was wrong not to take Michael to the hospital immediately but I work in a hospital, I have seen many code blue situations and I can honestly tell you that we follow the ACLS protocol which would have been the same. Minutes count but what was supposed to be done was being done.

So, I don't know if Murray was telling the truth about having any pulse. I can not say this with certainty at this time.

These clues are just another step forward in piecing things together.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

The beads on the bed are telling us that they were there while he was still living

i thought that quote re the beads showed he died on the bed.

 

[Soundmind]

His plan was to not use Propofol at all I think. Lorazepam/Ativan has other properties besides just sedation. So does Klonazepam which was prescribed and not shown on tox.

I posted a link about weaning off Propofol the other day in which it says to use Lorazepam?

There is a human factor (yes...even in Murray) here. I am not sure what his state of mind was when he was working that night. Was he over tired? Did he draw up too much (obviously...but...) and not realize this?

(and people....yes...I realize the man screwed up and covered up and all of that....but I am trying to figure out the most logical sequence of events is all I am trying to do)

I am also considering his behavior at times in his life and some of the medications he was taking has a side effect of rather paranoid, delusional behavior and it makes me wonder if thats why MJ was non compliant with some of the medication. (meaning...if he had that problem he would not want to take it and I can't blame him)[/QUOTE]

He claimed he gave it instead of propool at 2 am through an IV that means 8 to 9 hours , if true ,it would have appeared in MJ's urine especially since it was given via an IV and not orally . It was not even detected in his liver . so HE LIED . His plan was not to replace propofol . Please stick to FACTS , facts say propofol was detected even in 450 ml of urine found at the scene and no lorazepam was detected and even the urine in his bladder had no lorazepam .


as or midazolam , it is similar to propool , an hour or two after taking it were enough for it to appear in urine .


and what do you mean by him being paranoid and delusional ? are you trying to say that lorazepam worked perfectly for him but he stopped taking it because it was making him paranoid ?and that's why Murray decided to give it to him hours before his death ?


then murray gave it to him without his knowledge via an IV , and the first day he gave it he ended up killing him , and he did not give it alone , he gave it PLUS PROPOFOL .

These benzos were not a good replacement , he was hooking MJ on benzos , and it seems from the amounts taken MJ was trying to avoid being hooked on anything addictive , but Murray was prescribing to him more benzos , it seems he even started to give it to him via an IV without his knowledge . we all asked this question when lorazepam appeared as a contributing factor and when he said he was giving it through an IV , why would you set up an IV in the first place to give lorazepam if you can give it orally , and since orally MJ was not taking it , why would you push it into his IV knowing he was suffering from SEVERE long time insomnia and within a week he would become ADDICTED to it . He was CREATING A HUGE PROBLEM for MJ , and he knew exactly what was he doing .

Murrray was desperate to go to London , and he deliberately wanted MJ to SUFFER More SO HIS CONTRACT WOULD BE SIGNED , did anyone ask himself why his contract was not signed even TWO MONTHS after he started working for MJ ? The guy originally asked FOR FIVE MILLIONS , and all he was doing was giving MJ ephedrine THAT INCREASED HIS INSOMNIA PROBLEM , and trying to hook him on very very ADDICTIVE DRUGS . He is a criminal .

i thought that quote re the beads showed he died on the bed

No they proved he was dead before he was moved to the floor .

 

[Beachlover]

i thought that quote re the beads showed he died on the bed.

Yes, this is why we believe he passed on while on the bed. Now, this is from what I am understanding. Someone with forensic scientific knowledge can come along and say this is not what it means. They created a perimortem wound which means at or near the time of death.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

yeah also would they beable to determine an exact time of when this accured inreagds to the beads. i doubt? i mean u could look at the marks at say hes been gone a good 30 mins or look at them and say hes only just gone. when exactly did the medics notice these bead marks? or didnt they. cause if they saw the marks as soon as they got there that helps with the timeline but if they were only seen at the hospital any time could be given upto when the medics left the house at around 13.10 although the medics said he was gone when they got there interms of no heart beat etc. iguess the dots have to be connected with the livor etc. there wasnt any mention of the medics sayin there was livor when they got there was there? as reports claimed

 

[twinklEE]

I'm with Soundmind on this one.

 

[Soundmind]

Yes, this is why we believe he passed on while on the bed. Now, this is from what I am understanding. Someone with forensic scientific knowledge can come along and say this is not what it means. They created a perimortem wound which means at or near the time of death.

It means they did not heal , and there was not even an attempt or a process of healing , then he died BEFORE he was moved to the floor , if he was still alive the process of healing would have started IMMEDIATLY , we are talking about using very very much advanced technology in forensic science to determine whether in those wounds such a process started , they determined IT DID NOT START AT ALL , so he died before he was moved to the floor . .

 

[Soundmind]

:

yeah also would they beable to determine an exact time of when this accured inreagds to the beads. i doubt? i mean u could look at the marks at say hes been gone a good 30 mins or look at them and say hes only just gone. when exactly did the medics notice these bead marks? or didnt they. cause if they saw the marks as soon as they got there that helps with the timeline but if they were only seen at the hospital any time could be given upto when the medics left the house at around 13.10 although the medics said he was gone when they got there interms of no heart beat etc. iguess the dots have to be connected with the livor etc. there wasnt any mention of the medics sayin there was livor when they got there was there? as reports claimed

the beads are a clear evidence after he was moved to the floor he was ALREADY GONE , but they can't determine the time of death from the beads alone , the perimortem stage , means they did not happen before death , nor after death . nor after death we know how they determined that no healing process , but not before death that what I don't understand what do they mean by that ? and if MJ wanted to sleep and those beads were underneath him he would have removed them before he asked Murray to put him to sleep , they were under his butt and he was naked .so they would have bothered him certainly .

 

[Beachlover]

His plan was to not use Propofol at all I think. Lorazepam/Ativan has other properties besides just sedation. So does Klonazepam which was prescribed and not shown on tox.

I posted a link about weaning off Propofol the other day in which it says to use Lorazepam?

There is a human factor (yes...even in Murray) here. I am not sure what his state of mind was when he was working that night. Was he over tired? Did he draw up too much (obviously...but...) and not realize this?

(and people....yes...I realize the man screwed up and covered up and all of that....but I am trying to figure out the most logical sequence of events is all I am trying to do)

I am also considering his behavior at times in his life and some of the medications he was taking has a side effect of rather paranoid, delusional behavior and it makes me wonder if thats why MJ was non compliant with some of the medication. (meaning...if he had that problem he would not want to take it and I can't blame him)[/QUOTE]

He claimed he gave it instead of propool at 2 am through an IV that means 8 to 9 hours , if true ,it would have appeared in MJ's urine especially since it was given via an IV and not orally . It was not even detected in his liver . so HE LIED . His plan was not to replace propofol . Please stick to FACTS , facts say propofol was detected even in 450 ml of urine found at the scene and no lorazepam was detected and even the urine in his bladder had no lorazepam .


as or midazolam , it is similar to propool , an hour or two after taking it were enough for it to appear in urine .


and what do you mean by him being paranoid and delusional ? are you trying to say that lorazepam worked perfectly for him but he stopped taking it because it was making him paranoid ?and that's why Murray decided to give it to him hours before his death ?


then murray gave it to him without his knowledge via an IV , and the first day he gave it he ended up killing him , and he did not give it alone , he gave it PLUS PROPOFOL .

These benzos were not a good replacement , he was hooking MJ on benzos , and it seems from the amounts taken MJ was trying to avoid being hooked on anything addictive , but Murray was prescribing to him more benzos , it seems he even started to give it to him via an IV without his knowledge . we all asked this question when lorazepam appeared as a contributing factor and when he said he was giving it through an IV , why would you set up an IV in the first place to give lorazepam if you can give it orally , and since orally MJ was not taking it , why would you push it into his IV knowing he was suffering from SEVERE long time insomnia and within a week he would become ADDICTED to it . He was CREATING A HUGE PROBLEM for MJ , and he knew exactly what was he doing .

Murrray was desperate to go to London , and he deliberately wanted MJ to SUFFER More SO HIS CONTRACT WOULD BE SIGNED , did anyone ask himself why his contract was not signed even TWO MONTHS after he started working for MJ ? The guy originally asked FOR FIVE MILLIONS , and all he was doing was giving MJ ephedrine THAT INCREASED HIS INSOMNIA PROBLEM , and trying to hook him on very very ADDICTIVE DRUGS . He is a criminal .

No they proved he was dead before he was moved to the floor .

Sound, you are forming your very own theory here with regards to addiction. You also need to stick to the facts and not your own estimation of what you think happened here. You have made many assumptions here.

I don't see any liver tests except for the presence of Lidocaine. I don't see a 'negative' for any other drugs.

This is not a productive discussion of what happened if you are going to build your own conspiracy theory against Murray.

 

[Soundmind]

Sound, you are forming your very own theory here with regards to addiction. You also need to stick to the facts and not your own estimation of what you think happened here. You have made many assumptions here.

I don't see any liver tests except for the presence of Lidocaine. I don't see a 'negative' for any other drugs.

This is not a productive discussion of what happened if you are going to build your own conspiracy theory against Murray.

I was responding to your OWN THEORY , that MJ was probably paranoid and that's why he stopped taking lorazepam , you are AGAIN making excuses to Murray when the EVIDENCE does not suggest he was HONEST or even attempted to say the truth .

He lied FOR A REASON about giving lorazerpam the last two nights .

 

[Beachlover]

It means they did not heal , and there was not even an attempt or a process of healing , then he died BEFORE he was moved to the floor , if he was still alive the process of healing would have started IMMEDIATLY , we are talking about using very very much advanced technology in forensic science to determine whether in those wounds such a process started , they determined IT DID NOT START AT ALL , so he died before he was moved to the floor . .

I said that and didn't say otherwise. Did I?

I am also stating that I am not a forensic pathologist and neither are you so what we are gathering here is not the holy grail.

 

[Beachlover]

I was responding to your OWN THEORY , that MJ was probably paranoid and that's why he stopped taking lorazepam , you are AGAIN making excuses to Murray when the EVIDENCE does not suggest he was HONEST or even attempted to say the truth .

He lied FOR A REASON about giving lorazerpam the last two nights .

Sound, I was not specifically talking about the Lorazepam and you jumped to that conclusion on your own. There are other medications in the bottles that I am also looking at because some of them were taken. I noticed the side effects of some of them and am still putting that all together here. It takes a bit of reading and research. That can give an explanation as to the behavior people stated they noticed in Michael in the weeks before his death. I don't know because I haven't finished reading everything and piecing that together.

Also, you are saying now that Murray gave MJ the ephedrine and the pills found in Murrays bag are a combination drug. I don't see the salicyclate in MJ's system and that is one of the drugs found in that pill (Aspirin).

 

[Soundmind]

I said that and didn't say otherwise. Did I?

I am also stating that I am not a forensic pathologist and neither are you so what we are gathering here is not the holy grail.

You said they proved HE WAS ALIVE , ok and I responded to your THEORY that he was alive .

 

[elusive moonwalker]

he beads are a clear evidence after he was moved to the floor he was ALREADY GONE

yeah so that was b4 12.15 and at this stage murray has only used the time of around 10.30 for giving the Dip. yet from what we have seen mj died within minutes of being given it. i guess the next stage is witing to see if murray gives a new time of when the dip was given. even with his second timeline of finding mj at 12 he didnt give another time of when he injected? can we be certain that he defo died within minutes of being given it

 

[Soundmind]

Sound, I was not specifically talking about the Lorazepam and you jumped to that conclusion on your own. There are other medications in the bottles that I am also looking at because some of them were taken. I noticed the side effects of some of them and am still putting that all together here. It takes a bit of reading and research. That can give an explanation as to the behavior people stated they noticed in Michael in the weeks before his death. I don't know because I haven't finished reading everything and piecing that together.

Also, you are saying now that Murray gave MJ the ephedrine and the pills found in Murrays bag are a combination drug. I don't see the salicyclate in MJ's system and that is one of the drugs found in that pill (Aspirin).

ephedrine was detected in MJ's urine , so he was given it , detectives seized a similar drug from Murray's office in Houston , he clearly gave it to him , it was the worst thing he could prescribe to MJ since he knew very well how severe his insomnia problem was and how hard MJ was trying to sleep .

Murray was not doing a good job in treating MJ's insomnia , he was prescribing to him a benzo after the other , all of them were a huge potential problem , unlike clonazepam Metzeger prescribed .

You don't replace propofol with an IV LORAZEPAM , you don't do that , since when a doctor would do such a thing ?

and You can't say he told the truth regarding lorazepam , clearly it was not given prior to that day , and clearly it was not even given at the early hours of that night . It would have been in his urine .

 

[Beachlover]

ephedrine was detected in MJ's urine , so he was given it , detectives seized a similar drug from Murray's office in Houston , he clearly gave it to him , it was the worst thing he could prescribe to MJ since he knew very well how severe his insomnia problem was and how hard MJ was trying to sleep .

Murray was not doing a good job in treating MJ's insomnia , he was prescribing to him a benzo after the other , all of them were a huge potential problem , unlike clonazepam Metzeger prescribed .

You don't replace propofol with an IV LORAZEPAM , you don't do that , since when a doctor would do such a thing ?

and You can't say he told the truth regarding lorazepam , clearly it was not given prior to that day , and clearly it was not even given at the early hours of that night . It would have been in his urine .

Yes, Ephedrine was found in his system but I don't know for a fact who gave it to him or why he took it.

I did not ever say he told the truth about the Lorazepam.

I am not going to sit here defending myself. I don't have to.

This is supposed to be facts and yet you have people coming into the thread and saying "Well, I know this to be true", "The autopsy can be wrong", and now you are saying Murray was trying to control MJ with drugs. Thats a conspiracy theory statement.

I guess what I am saying here is that you are going to see it how you want to see it just as others do and it doesn't matter what the report says or doesn't say and you make assumptions.

I'll keep what I find to myself for now because obviously no one wants to hear it anyway.

 

[mjdove]

this thread is so long. Sorry, if my question might be answered already.
I would like to know, if someone knows, whether the chronic lung inflammation could have to do something with Vitiligo?

 

[twinklEE]

this thread is so long. Sorry, if my question might be answered already.
I would like to know, if someone knows, whether the chronic lung inflammation could have to do something with Vitiligo?

Vitiligo is a skin disease and has nothing to do with his chronic lung inflammation, if anything it had to do with Lupus.

 

[mjdove]

Vitiligo is a skin disease and has nothing to do with his chronic lung inflammation, if anything it had to do with Lupus.

So Michael has had Lupus? Is it a fact? I have heard sometimes but I didn't believe it.
Or what are the reasons for his lung disease?