Dangerous 25: what would you like to see happen? [UNCONFIRMED]

[InvincibleMJ]

Mod Note: Last warning about the OFF TOPIC Jacksons-OTW-Thriller discussion in this particular thread. Either start a new thread or stop derailing this one.

 

[AlwaysThere]

I am very sure too that they will release a ‘Dangerous 25th anniversary’ (just like they did with ‘Thriller 25’ and ‘Bad 25&#8217.

What makes you so certain?

If anything, the general public's dismissal of the Dangerous album and anything that succeeded it should prompt concern that there WON'T be an anniversary reissue. The proposed Dangerous 25 is suffering from heightened expectations (i.e., extreme promotional materials, a new concert) and, in the event that it does happen in 2016-17, most certainly won't meet them.

Bad 25, in its various editions and packaging, lost both the estate and Sony money, which is a risk I'm sure they aren't willing to take once more. I would expect a handful of unreleased demos for a Dangerous 25 and nothing more. If we get more, it's a welcome surprise.

The most important aspect of a project is that it is either necessary or would catch the attention of the general public. Such was the mindset behind Michael and Xscape (two new Michael Jackson albums), Vision (a collection of Michael's short films), Immortal (supplementing the Cirque du Soleil tour), Bad 25 (attempting to duplicate the stratospheric sales of Thriller 25 four years earlier) and the upcoming Off the Wall documentary (the album being one of Michael's most revered and praised).

Dangerous is not widely appreciated nor acknowledged by reviewers. Does it deserve the distinction? Most definitely. But commercially it will certainly fare even worse than Bad 25 did. Doubtful that the estate wants to put any effort into that.

 

[mj_frenzy]

What makes you so certain?

If anything, the general public's dismissal of the Dangerous album and anything that succeeded it should prompt concern that there WON'T be an anniversary reissue. The proposed Dangerous 25 is suffering from heightened expectations (i.e., extreme promotional materials, a new concert) and, in the event that it does happen in 2016-17, most certainly won't meet them.

Bad 25, in its various editions and packaging, lost both the estate and Sony money, which is a risk I'm sure they aren't willing to take once more. I would expect a handful of unreleased demos for a Dangerous 25 and nothing more. If we get more, it's a welcome surprise.

The most important aspect of a project is that it is either necessary or would catch the attention of the general public. Such was the mindset behind Michael and Xscape (two new Michael Jackson albums), Vision (a collection of Michael's short films), Immortal (supplementing the Cirque du Soleil tour), Bad 25 (attempting to duplicate the stratospheric sales of Thriller 25 four years earlier) and the upcoming Off the Wall documentary (the album being one of Michael's most revered and praised).

Dangerous is not widely appreciated nor acknowledged by reviewers. Does it deserve the distinction? Most definitely. But commercially it will certainly fare even worse than Bad 25 did. Doubtful that the estate wants to put any effort into that.

In a similar spirit, someone could wonder what makes you so certain that the general public’s dismissal of the 'Dangerous' album is going to be reflected also on its possible anniversary edition.

Also, you foresee that a ‘Dangerous 25’ edition will not happen at all &, in the same breathe, you say that a few demos are very likely to accompany this anniversary release.

I have to say that you sound slightly biased against such a release by trying to prematurely explain a possible low commercial performance.

Personally, I think there is a strong possibility that an anniversary edition of the 'Dangerous' album will get a release, irrespective of its included material.

 

[Doggone]

What makes you so certain?

If anything, the general public's dismissal of the Dangerous album and anything that succeeded it should prompt concern that there WON'T be an anniversary reissue. The proposed Dangerous 25 is suffering from heightened expectations (i.e., extreme promotional materials, a new concert) and, in the event that it does happen in 2016-17, most certainly won't meet them.

Bad 25, in its various editions and packaging, lost both the estate and Sony money, which is a risk I'm sure they aren't willing to take once more. I would expect a handful of unreleased demos for a Dangerous 25 and nothing more. If we get more, it's a welcome surprise.

The most important aspect of a project is that it is either necessary or would catch the attention of the general public. Such was the mindset behind Michael and Xscape (two new Michael Jackson albums), Vision (a collection of Michael's short films), Immortal (supplementing the Cirque du Soleil tour), Bad 25 (attempting to duplicate the stratospheric sales of Thriller 25 four years earlier) and the upcoming Off the Wall documentary (the album being one of Michael's most revered and praised).

Dangerous is not widely appreciated nor acknowledged by reviewers. Does it deserve the distinction? Most definitely. But commercially it will certainly fare even worse than Bad 25 did. Doubtful that the estate wants to put any effort into that.

I think I have to agree with you. I really want a Dangerous 25 release so bad. But it won't happen. Bad 25 didn't meet the Estate's expectations. Dangerous did not do well as Bad did. The public already forgot the Dangerous era. When they think about Michael they only think about the '80s Michael. Don't get me wrong... Dangerous is his best album. It deserves much more credit and fame. But the public won't buy it. They are ignorant.

 

[analogue]

I hope that Dangerous will at least get some kind of tribute. I don't want the estate to only focus on the Quincy Jones produced albums

 

[HIStory]

What makes you so certain?

If anything, the general public's dismissal of the Dangerous album and anything that succeeded it should prompt concern that there WON'T be an anniversary reissue. The proposed Dangerous 25 is suffering from heightened expectations (i.e., extreme promotional materials, a new concert) and, in the event that it does happen in 2016-17, most certainly won't meet them.

Bad 25, in its various editions and packaging, lost both the estate and Sony money, which is a risk I'm sure they aren't willing to take once more. I would expect a handful of unreleased demos for a Dangerous 25 and nothing more. If we get more, it's a welcome surprise.

Dangerous is not widely appreciated nor acknowledged by reviewers. Does it deserve the distinction? Most definitely. But commercially it will certainly fare even worse than Bad 25 did. Doubtful that the estate wants to put any effort into that.

Well, when I look at the fact that lot the reissues of lot more obscure albums are worth for record labels then I don't buy this notion that somehow the reissue of Dangerous is not worth. How come Pipes of Peace is worth but Dangerous isn't? I could name a lot of albums not just Pipes of Peace which are a LOT more obscure, forgotten etc. than Dangerous and still got a reissue and anniversary release. Obviously it can be done so that it is actually worth for a record label even with lot more obscure albums, so I don't know why it can't be done with Dangerous.

 

[wendijane]

Double post

 

[wendijane]

The main reason why I don't want a Mexico 1993 release is because at the time Michael was being accused of one of the most hideous crimes ever. I don't want to watch Michael struggle emotionally through a concert. And anyone who doesn't care about MJ's emotional state, and just wants this released because it may be in HD is really selfish.

I'm sick of some fans just accepting anything that the estate may through at us.

Agreed

 

[HIStoric]

Well, when I look at the fact that lot the reissues of lot more obscure albums are worth for record labels then I don't buy this notion that somehow the reissue of Dangerous is not worth. How come Pipes of Peace is worth but Dangerous isn't? I could name a lot of albums not just Pipes of Peace which are a LOT more obscure, forgotten etc. than Dangerous and still got a reissue and anniversary release. Obviously it can be done so that it is actually worth for a record label even with lot more obscure albums, so I don't know why it can't be done with Dangerous.

That and I think people are seriously underestimating how successful Dangerous was. Bad might have had more impact on pop culture and be more remembered in the public conscience but Dangerous still sold almost as much as Bad; infact for a while it was outselling Bad by a million or two. Never mind the fact it had some of the biggest singles of MJs career. Even then it's not just about its success, it's also about how important this album was artistically to Michael and I feel Dangerous showcased one of his most drastic improvements as an artist.

This isn't some obscure album that barely sold 100,000 copies, this is the third best selling album in Michael Jackson's entire discography at over 30,000,000! If other artists can put as much time and effort into reissues for their far more obscure albums, I'm certain the Michael Jackson Estate (who have had the highest grossing dead celebrity by MILES for 5/6 years since his death) can afford to make a great effort too!

 

[SarahJ]

I have no doubt they could. There's no reason they couldn't market the hell out of Dangerous with the right strategy and marketing team I have no doubt it would sell well. But I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Deleted member 9375]

Incredible era. Black Or White is one of those other level iconic MJ songs. They could do soooo much but in all probability they probably won't. Yeah Anniversary editions are a niche market but do it the right way or don't do it at all. I see beautiful deluxe box sets for lesser iconic and lower selling albums now on an almost monthly basis that are full of bonus material and truly beautiful design. With MJ? Stick a few bonus tracks (amazing and I love them all) and get the latest dude to do a remix for the kids. Honestly words fail. Just look around you and take note of how others are doing it. Dangerous is a phenomenal album.

Note: just thinking about it, a lot of those lesser selling albums seem to get great recognition and critical acceptance in hindsight, upon release of deluxe set, partly because those sets are so lovingly assembled. For MJ in this day and age there is no excuse. Go into the vault, unearth EVERYTHING that's possible and include it. Include snippets, include Pepsi commercials, alt versions, studio footage and so forth. Bring it to the level of respect and insight it deserves. Don't diminish its artistical value by putting out a cheap reissue with a few remixes.

 

[AlwaysThere]

In a similar spirit, someone could wonder what makes you so certain that the general public’s dismissal of the 'Dangerous' album is going to be reflected also on its possible anniversary edition.

Also, you foresee that a ‘Dangerous 25’ edition will not happen at all &, in the same breathe, you say that a few demos are very likely to accompany this anniversary release.

I have to say that you sound slightly biased against such a release by trying to prematurely explain a possible low commercial performance.

Allow me to rephrase:

Bad has a higher social and critical status than Dangerous could ever aspire to have, and its anniversary edition saw such low sales numbers that Sony actively lost money on the various collectors editions and individual releases. Sales started off well enough overseas (top ten debut in eleven countries worldwide) but fell dramatically and faster than anticipated.

And this is from an album that is frequently highlighted as one of the greatest ever recorded. One can only imagine the sales disaster that would accumulate for anything lower. It is my belief that Dangerous25 will not happen because of this.

However, in the event that such a project were to come to fruition, fans should not bite their nails for anything substantial -- as previously stated, a handful of demos and perhaps the cancelled 2001 tracks. The smaller the project, the less money Sony is at risk of losing if it is a commercial disappointment. Whether we like it or not, Sony is a business, and the primary functioning point of a business is sales.

Asking for concerts and three discs worth of material and stellar promotion (as many have for the proposed Off the Wall reissue) is simply unlikely.

Any claim of a bias towards Dangerous is entirely unfounded, as I adore that album and think it deserves much more critical appraisal and attention than Off the Wall (but that's a discussion for another thread). I am simply looking through realistic spectacles and piecing things together. Perhaps the estate will throw something together for the anniversary. Rest assured, it won't be anything exciting.

Well, when I look at the fact that lot the reissues of lot more obscure albums are worth for record labels then I don't buy this notion that somehow the reissue of Dangerous is not worth. How come Pipes of Peace is worth but Dangerous isn't? I could name a lot of albums not just Pipes of Peace which are a LOT more obscure, forgotten etc. than Dangerous and still got a reissue and anniversary release. Obviously it can be done so that it is actually worth for a record label even with lot more obscure albums, so I don't know why it can't be done with Dangerous.

As stated above, I am entirely on board with a Dangerous reissue. I simply don't see it happening on the level that some would like.

Pipes of Peace is the rare example of an album enjoying a detailed and extravagant reissue -- most republications get new cover art and cool packaging without any real reason to purchase it. The same could be said with Bad25, what with its bonus tracks and Wembley concert (not to mention the additional fan package with the 12" vinyl and the $350 Bad tour jacket replicas).

Many seem to look at Dangerous25 as another Bad25 situation, which I simply do not see happening. At best, if such a project ever occurs, we would be getting a replica of Thriller25 - glossy packaging, remastered album, a handful of new songs.

 

[HIStory]

Pipes of Peace is the rare example of an album enjoying a detailed and extravagant reissue

I don't think it's a rare example at all. Reissues are done all the time. Some detailed and some "extravagant". We just don't hear about most of them, because they are usually targeted at the hard core fan base of that particular artist and most reissues don't even make the charts or the upper spheres of charts. So actually, the performance of Bad 25 is not as tragic as you portray it to be. Of course, if more money was spent on the marketing campaign than what it brought back it could have produced loss for Sony (something we do not really know, do we?) but as shown through numerous other examples of reissues - a reissue can be done with respect to the art, with something new and exciting to offer to fans and still cost-effevtive for the label. It's up to the business people at Sony to figure out how, but if it can be done with many other albums which are a lot less known than Dangerous than I am sure it can be done with Dangerous as well.

Of course, reissues will never generate huge sales and huge profit - unless it's something like Thriller - so if Sony only sees value in something that generates BIG sales and BIG profit then they are never going to do it, that is true. But that would be a shame, because smaller profits are profits too and I think it will be hard to generate big profit with any album release anyway. Even many current artists don't sell that much any more. Unless you are one of the 2-3 top current artists, albums rarely even go to Platinum or Gold any more.

 

[mj_frenzy]

Allow me to rephrase:

However, in the event that such a project were to come to fruition, fans should not bite their nails for anything substantial -- as previously stated, a handful of demos and perhaps the cancelled 2001 tracks.

Now your point of view on that matter is clearer, okay.

The smaller the project, the less money Sony is at risk of losing if it is a commercial disappointment. Whether we like it or not, Sony is a business, and the primary functioning point of a business is sales.

From a business perspective, I agree that extravagancy does not guarantee commercial success & I think this philosophy applies also to this specific re-release. I am of the opinion that the accompanying bonus material has to be wisely selected &, most importantly, it has to be interesting, mostly from a fan perspective.

Any claim of a bias towards Dangerous is entirely unfounded, as I adore that album and think it deserves much more critical appraisal and attention than Off the Wall (but that's a discussion for another thread).

I know that you adore the ‘Dangerous’ album & I am glad to hear that it deserves much more critical appraisal and attention. Personally, I hope this underestimated (from the audience) record to get a second chance, even after 25 years.

 

[AlwaysThere]

From a business perspective, I agree that extravagancy does not guarantee commercial success & I think this philosophy applies also to this specific re-release. I am of the opinion that the accompanying bonus material has to be wisely selected &, most importantly, it has to be interesting, mostly from a fan perspective.

I know that you adore the ‘Dangerous’ album & I am glad to hear that it deserves much more critical appraisal and attention. Personally, I hope this underestimated (from the audience) record to get a second chance, even after 25 years.

One hundred percent!

Commercially I just cannot imagine the estate or Sony wanting to take the risk of compiling something akin to Bad25 and having faltering sales numbers. Some are vying for a documentary or supplementary concert disc or anything parallel to these, but I simply cannot imagine anything outside of revamped packaging and some extended cuts and/or unreleased demos.

It's similar to films being made inexpensively -- the lower the budget, the less money at risk if it is a failure. Michael has consistently good sales numbers regardless of the project, but the amount of money put into each (as well as the $250 million Sony contract) complicates things.

I don't think it's a rare example at all. Reissues are done all the time. Some detailed and some "extravagant". We just don't hear about most of them, because they are usually targeted at the hard core fan base of that particular artist and most reissues don't even make the charts or the upper spheres of charts. So actually, the performance of Bad 25 is not as tragic as you portray it to be.

Bad25's sales numbers approach catastrophic because of two factors, the first being the cumulative budget that was required for the entire project to be completed. None of us know the exact price tag, but one could reasonably argue that it must be substantially high, particularly given the remastering of the Wembley show by a NASA-affiliated agency, the expansive box sets released concurrently, the one-time agreement with Pepsi Cola, and hiring Pitbull, Afrojack and Nero for the remixes (as unnecessary as they are).

The other, in a similar vein, is the $250 million Sony contract. Michael's posthumous sales numbers are parallel with that of all dead artists in that they decline over time and will surely experience a surge decades down the road. Sony put their money where their mouths were and bet $250 million immediately following his passing and, to my understanding, have not made back much of it.

In comparison to most reissues, I do admit that Bad25 did quite well -- excellent, even. But given the factors, I can't imagine that either party were adamant with the sales tallies.

Of course, if more money was spent on the marketing campaign than what it brought back it could have produced loss for Sony (something we do not really know, do we?) but as shown through numerous other examples of reissues - a reissue can be done with respect to the art, with something new and exciting to offer to fans and still cost-effevtive for the label. It's up to the business people at Sony to figure out how, but if it can be done with many other albums which are a lot less known than Dangerous than I am sure it can be done with Dangerous as well.

The marketing/promotion argument has always been complicated for me simply because Bad25 did do quite well in its opening week. Promotion was all but nonexistent in the United States, yet it sold higher than any other reissue has in recent memory. And as previously mentioned, overseas it debuted in the top 10 in eleven different countries!

Promotion was more than strong enough to raise awareness.

 

[Galactus123]

I wonder which concert was used for this?
[video=youtube;jQY_QL_wvQU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQY_QL_wvQU[/video]

 

[Themidwestcowboy]

I wonder which concert was used for this?
[video=youtube;jQY_QL_wvQU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQY_QL_wvQU[/video]

I think it's a mix of different concerts. The clip from 1:44 [that is used as the thumbnail for the video] is definitely from Munich

 

[mj_frenzy]

I know that it cannot be considered rare material due to its wide availability.

But I think this is the right place to post the ‘Dangerous’ concert in Bremen (full, televised performance). I have to mention also that no connection between this Bremen show & a possible live ‘Dangerous 25’ DVD anniversary seems to exist.

Of course, there are some good moments here. For example, the live entrance (‘Jam&#8217 puts any other MJ’s live entrance (before or after the ‘Dangerous’ Tour) to shame. Also, the Billie Jean’ performance includes few extra moves (near at the end of the performance). Generally, & for the most part, MJ seems to be in high spirits, although sometimes he gives the impression of being a bit tired.

But, still some (minor or more serious) issues exist. I am not trying to be nitpicky, but I have to address some of them. For example, in the beginning of ‘Beat It’ MJ confuses the lyrics. He sings very early the lines “you wanna stay alive, better do what you can” instead of the right ones “the fire's in their eyes and their words are really clear”. Also, one of the dancers almost fell during the lean of ‘Smooth Criminal’. Moreover, during ‘She’s Out Of My Life’, the on-stage girl looks too calm/reserved & it does not seem to be the perfect moment for a possible, official release.

The performance itself looks decent although I guess that there must be some other, better ‘Dangerous’ Tour performances than this Bremen show:

[video=youtube;O2GXvNelKyc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2GXvNelKyc[/video]

[video=youtube;hrKwS48hdHk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrKwS48hdHk[/video]

 

[analogue]

During that show the magic trick at the end of Thriller wasn't used. The guy wearing the werewolf mask (That wasn't really Michael BTW) just walked off stage and let the backing dancers entertain the audience. Did this happen any other time?

 

[mj_frenzy]

During that show the magic trick at the end of Thriller wasn't used. The guy wearing the werewolf mask (That wasn't really Michael BTW) just walked off stage and let the backing dancers entertain the audience. Did this happen any other time?

Also, the usual magic trick (illusion) did not take place (Bremen concert) at the end of the ‘Thriller’ performance. Thanks for the contribution!

To be honest with you, I am not sure if that happened any other time (apart from the Bremen performance).

Additionally, MJ seems to be dissatisfied with the sound of his microphone during the performance of ‘Beat It’ & after a certain point.

Also, it seems that there are a few extra, fully live vocals during the ending of the ‘Man In The Mirror’ performance (“startin’ with the man in the mirror”, for example) which I forgot to mention earlier.

 

[Doo Doo Head]

This concert was delightful, but clearly not his best. There were many technical issues, and you could see Michael being slightly agitated at times. Which makes me wonder, which concert do people consider to be the best of the Dangerous Tour? The snippets I've seen from Wembley suggest it's one of the most energetic from this tour.

 

[Galactus123]

I think it's really hard to say what is the best. We have seen only a very little amount of all 69 concerts. It seems unlikely but I hope Estate still releases a concert.

 

[Themidwestcowboy]

I want a mix from different concerts. something like this

Jam (Wembley)
WBSS (Stockholm)
HN (Munich)
SC (Singapore)
IJCSLY (Bremen)

etc etc.

 

[mj_frenzy]

This concert was delightful, but clearly not his best. There were many technical issues, and you could see Michael being slightly agitated at times. Which makes me wonder, which concert do people consider to be the best of the Dangerous Tour? The snippets I've seen from Wembley suggest it's one of the most energetic from this tour.

For me, the Bremen concert should never get an official release.

The fact that MJ looks also a bit inconsistent (or agitated at times) on stage is an additional factor that only cements my opinion.

I think it's really hard to say what is the best. We have seen only a very little amount of all 69 concerts. It seems unlikely but I hope Estate still releases a concert.

This makes a lot of sense.

I mean it is virtually impossible for anyone to determine which ‘Dangerous’ concert is his best.

I want a mix from different concerts. something like this

Jam (Wembley)
WBSS (Stockholm)
HN (Munich)
SC (Singapore)
IJCSLY (Bremen)

etc etc.

Your choice took me by surprise.

I was under the impression that you were in favor of an entire 1992 ‘Dangerous’ concert (rather than a mix from his entire tour).

Of course, this is a choice I support too, although I think the chances of such a live DVD (comprised of different shows) are dim.

 

[Liberian Man]

Re: Dangerous 25: what would you like to see happen?

I pretty much wish for Mike's solo version of Joy, and Alright Now, California Grass, Addams Groove, Red Eye, She's not a girl, A Baby Smiles, and Michael Mckellar to be included for Dangerous 25 this year!!! WHOOOOOOO I SURE HOPE THE TRACK LIST WILL BE SOMETHING LIKE THIS, MAN I CAN'T WAIT!!!?

 

[Ms. BlueGangsta]

The Dangerous 25 discussion thread.

This thread is to discuss all things related to the potential (but not likely) creation, and release of Dangerous 25.
What do you want it to be like?
Do you want a doc and an album, or do you want one but not the other?
What unreleased material do you want on it?
How do you want it to be marketed/advertised?
Whatever you think about Dangerous 25 can go in this thread.

 

[mjprince1976]

Re: The Dangerous 25 discussion thread.

Not so much a doc, but something like Bad 25 where you get some new essays and a disc of unreleased material. That would be fun. Given Dangerous is such a good album, you know the outakes are going to be blow your head off amazing. :chillin:unk:
Also a disc with the full uncut version of Black of White with the panther and car scenes included. Either way if we get anything, it will be added to my Michael Jackson collection.

I don't think it will be a huge seller and it will be mainly hardcore fans like us buying it, so in that case, the estate knows they can throw in the kitchen sink. A documentary may be out of the question as they have seen how the OTW one has kind of tanked.

When you are marketing to hard core fans, you really are looking at 250k or less people. But that 250k are quality and you know they will support anything that keeps a live the memory of the worlds greatest musical icon.

 

[FullLipsDotNose]

Re: The Dangerous 25 discussion thread.

I'd like to see:

Serious Effect
Men In Black
Bottle of Smoke
Bubbles
California Grass
Cry
Fever
Happy Brithday, Lisa
If You Don't Love Me
Joy
Little Girls
Llama Lola
Lonely Bird
Lonely Man
Lucy Is In Love With Linus
Michael McKellar
Peter Pan
Pressure
Saturday Woman
The Truth on Youth
Satisfy You
Tragedy of a Cheeleader (if there's a demo at least)
Verdicts

 

[Galactus123]

Re: The Dangerous 25 discussion thread.

A new concert release from Dangerous Tour would be great. Any concert with Bad and TWYMMF. Also Dangerous from 1993 as a bonus. But I'm pretty sure Estate would just release Bucharest with a new cover art.

I have a feeling that there won't be Dangerous 25.

 

[Smooth72]

Re: The Dangerous 25 discussion thread.

Demo's and out takes would be grand. A blue ray concert of course. I don't think we are getting D25 tho. I have a feelin it will be a duets album next. I really hope that's not the case it would be a mistake to finish songs with new artist. I just have feeling that's coming