Dangerous 25: what would you like to see happen? [UNCONFIRMED]

Michael's voice was actually fantastic at the Mexico show. And as for his dancing, let me just leave this here.
[video=youtube;5C-EJoSiHKA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C-EJoSiHKA[/video]

Even whilst going through all that pain, he still gave it his all.
 
I pretty sure the Mexico City concert release rumors are just rumors.

Edit: But the concert looks like it's not just Jumbotron footage:
[video=youtube;WgJTb-y_82k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgJTb-y_82k[/video]

Maybe they planned to release it at the time but never did.
 
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Delete post: I just can't be bothered with this anymore. Any other artist it wouldn't even be a consideration! With MJ its a possibility!
 
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I think all the different opinions have to be respected here, even the ones that are diametrically opposed.

No one is entitled to question the fan loyalty of other fans just because they opted for the 1993 ‘Dangerous’ concerts. To me, this sounds blatantly disrespectful toward them, as well.

Moreover, no one can be sure about the quality (or even the existence) of the concerts that come from the first leg (1992) so as to come to a safe conclusion. All that exists is some random, leaked live videos (from both 1992 & 1993 shows) that in no way can act as reliable measures.

Additionally, the fact that MJ was better both mentally & physically in 1992 does not make the shows from the first leg automatically better (for the aforementioned reason, too). Furthermore, to claim that a possible 1993 release will make people relate it to the allegations not only does not make sense but also sounds really childish. People are not likely to change their opinion (in regard to MJ’s personal life) just because a live concert from that period gets (or not) an official, anniversary release.

Unlike many fans that seem to be pretty sure about the existed footage, personally I can only assume that some shows are better than others.

But, to be honest, I prefer studio footage to any live concert.
 
I have watched EVERY single MJ amateur boot ever made available online. That could be 50 or 60 or 70 or 80 shows, I don't know. Believe me, the 92 Dangerous shows are better! Better in every conceivable possible way imaginable. You can be as nice, as diplomatic and as logical as you want to be, but sometimes you just have to admit when something is wrong. Some fans just want anything, will settle for anything and in the process will glaze over the difference between good ethics and bad ethics. We're not talking about setlists, jam jackets, costumes, lights etc, we're talking about a person suffering. I've watched everything available including all the clips, snippets & promos such as Jam, WBSS, BOW, Beat It, WDAN from Wembley for example, and those performances are so above the Mexico show its like watching a different person at times. Watch the Mexico show in its entirety, understanding its context and then watch Any of the 92 shows and honestly tell me that you rate the Mexico show on the same type of level, morals & ethics aside. What you will see is a man in 92 fully inspired, full of power & energy hitting all the right kinds of magic he's capable of verses in 93 a person lost, drugged up forgetting lyrics and cue points. Yes, at times in performances like Billie Jean (a performance that's so embedded in his psyche) or Smooth Criminal ( a performance which is lip synced) He's able to just about pull it off and get through it. But let's not kid ourselves here that just because it's possibly available in film that that makes it right.
 
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mj_frenzy;4111948 said:
Furthermore, to claim that a possible 1993 release will make people relate it to the allegations not only does not make sense but also sounds really childish. People are not likely to change their opinion (in regard to MJ’s personal life) just because a live concert from that period gets (or not) an official, anniversary release.

And that's not what I said either. Please read it again.
 
[video=youtube;Nr5ebfx10yM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nr5ebfx10yM[/video]
 
Plus, that photo of Michael crying isn't from Mexico. It's from Bangkok, the first show of 1993 is when he found out about the allegations. He knew about the allegations, was going through the same thing in Buenos Aires, as he was in Mexico... there's a lot of details that are being left out.. upon judgement of a possible release.
 
Zakk;4111995 said:
Plus, that photo of Michael crying isn't from Mexico. It's from Bangkok, the first show of 1993 is when he found out about the allegations. He knew about the allegations, was going through the same thing in Buenos Aires, as he was in Mexico... there's a lot of details that are being left out.. upon judgement of a possible release.

There's a lot being left out?

I have absolutely nothing to say to you regarding Mexico 93. I have nothing more to say on the subject.
 
Zakk;4111995 said:
Plus, that photo of Michael crying isn't from Mexico. It's from Bangkok, the first show of 1993 is when he found out about the allegations. He knew about the allegations, was going through the same thing in Buenos Aires, as he was in Mexico... there's a lot of details that are being left out.. upon judgement of a possible release.
Ah, but somebody else who saw it already said that he missed cues, missed dance steps, missed lyrics, and that you could tell he was high. In Bangkok, it had just started. By Mexico City, it was in full heat and he was trying to get through the day and night-by whatever means possible.
I've seen a concert on YouTube where Amy Winehouse was very drunk, and a comeback concert with Whitney where she couldn't hit the notes (and also seemed drunk) and the audience went bezerk with booing.
I realize Mexico City is screaming and cheering their heads off, but think of the reaction of the "general public" watching an up close and personal movie of this night?
 
Something that does confuse me is the setlist of this show, J5 medley is listed.. but clearly in the tower version this performance remains unseen... can anyone clarify?

1. Jam
2. Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'
3. Human Nature
4. Smooth Criminal
5. I Just Can't Stop Loving You
6. She's Out of My Life
7. I Want You Back/ The Love You Save/ I'll Be There (Wasn't performed?!)
8. Thriller
9. Billie Jean
10. Will You Be There
11. Dangerous
12. Black or White
13. Heal the World
14. Man in the Mirror
 
Beat It & WDAN are not performed because Jennifer isn't there for the guitar solos but it's probably for the best for MJ's sake because WDAN vocals & illusion would have in all probability been too much on him. Not sure about J5 medley but there were many delays throughout for reasons mentioned a million times, is it possible it wasn't performed due to all the stops and the show going over time or the live vocals of Ill Be There would be too much on this night. I don't recall seeing a J5 Medley from this show. Bouts of crying from extreme mental pain is exhausting.
 
I don't understand why anybody would want this concert released if that's the state MJ was in.
 
aazzaabb;4112002 said:
Beat It & WDAN are not performed because Jennifer isn't there for the guitar solos but it's probably for the best for MJ's sake because WDAN vocals & illusion would have in all probability been too much on him. Not sure about J5 medley but there were many delays throughout for reasons mentioned a million times, is it possible it wasn't performed due to all the stops and the show going over time or the live vocals of Ill Be There would be too much on this night. I don't recall seeing a J5 Medley from this show. Bouts of crying from extreme mental pain is exhausting.

I want a straight up answer with non of the ranting, his performance is great.. still exceeds 30th anniversary and anything done since
 
aazzaabb;4111960 said:
I have watched EVERY single MJ amateur boot ever made available online. That could be 50 or 60 or 70 or 80 shows, I don't know. Believe me, the 92 Dangerous shows are better! Better in every conceivable possible way imaginable. You can be as nice, as diplomatic and as logical as you want to be, but sometimes you just have to admit when something is wrong. Some fans just want anything, will settle for anything and in the process will glaze over the difference between good ethics and bad ethics. We're not talking about setlists, jam jackets, costumes, lights etc, we're talking about a person suffering. I've watched everything available including all the clips, snippets & promos such as Jam, WBSS, BOW, Beat It, WDAN from Wembley for example, and those performances are so above the Mexico show its like watching a different person at times. Watch the Mexico show in its entirety, understanding its context and then watch Any of the 92 shows and honestly tell me that you rate the Mexico show on the same type of level, morals & ethics aside. What you will see is a man in 92 fully inspired, full of power & energy hitting all the right kinds of magic he's capable of verses in 93 a person lost, drugged up forgetting lyrics and cue points. Yes, at times in performances like Billie Jean (a performance that's so embedded in his psyche) or Smooth Criminal ( a performance which is lip synced) He's able to just about pull it off and get through it. But let's not kid ourselves here that just because it's possibly available in film that that makes it right.

I can understand your desire to have a 1992 live, official release.

But, you should take into account that the first leg (1992) almost in its entirety was full of problems, health & technical ones.

I will give a few examples:

From a technical perspective, the 1992 shows seemed to have been far from perfect. I mean that on many dates the stage suffered extreme, weather conditions mostly due to severe rain (for example, Cardiff, Ludwigshafen, second Stockholm show). But despite that, & contrary to advises against performing, MJ appeared on stage. Not to mention, of course, the first Munich show that the show itself suffered a lot of technical errors & I really doubt that all of them (in a magical way) were erased from the second show onwards. Also, it is common practice for shows in general to be plagued by such problems during the first dates (when they still experiment on different things, try to optimize technical matters, etc.), & the ‘Dangerous’ 1992 shows obviously were not an exception to the rule.

But also MJ suffered serious health issues during the 1992 shows. According to Bennett Kleinberg, (his publicist at that time) MJ was taking painkillers in order to survive the shows during 1992. Also, there were times when shows (like Basel, Gelsenkirchen, the third Wembley show) were cancelled at the last minute due to serious health problems (for example, migraine, exhaustion). Also, due to these health problems, many times he was forced to return back to his hotel in an ambulance (Paris, Lausanne, for example). It goes without saying that all the aforementioned health problems have an adverse effect on being full of power & energy.

Finally, I have no reason not to believe you that you have seen every single amateur video ever made available on line.

But, to be perfectly honest with you, I cannot take it seriously that amateur footage (even from all the shows) proves that the first shows (1992) are better in every discernible way.
 
I find it hard to watch and enjoy a 'live' performance when that said performance doesn't include 'live' singing. Can someone help me out here?
 
Zakk;4112007 said:
I want a straight up answer with non of the ranting, his performance is great.. still exceeds 30th anniversary and anything done since

Would you still want the concert if it's not HD? If it's not then it would be a lot better to release some 1992 concert with Bad and TWYMMF.
 
Zakk;4112007 said:
I want a straight up answer with non of the ranting, his performance is great.. still exceeds 30th anniversary and anything done since

Okay I'll give it a try. The reason I love Wembley so much is not just because of the great performance, it's because I know he was at his happiest on that stage, in front of all those people. I mean just look at that huge smile during I'll Be There.

I remember when I first saw the show, my girlfriend bought it me to cheer me up. I was heartbroken because I'd got a hamstring injury, which meant I couldn't play for my football team for the next few months. If I'm honest I didn't feel like watching it, but I'm glad I did, because as soon as MJ cued the band for WBBS I forget all my troubles for the next 2 hours. That to me is what Michael is all about, Escapism.

So my point is, I don't think I'll get that feeling with Mexico, because I know he wasn't happy and I think you can see that watching the show as a fan. And if I as huge fanatic, can't enjoy the show how are the general public going to be able to ?
 
Galactus123;4112050 said:
Would you still want the concert if it's not HD? If it's not then it would be a lot better to release some 1992 concert with Bad and TWYMMF.

Dangerous Tour was full of problems, but there are glimpses of Michael's genius/creativity and overall perfectionism that shines through even in the final show. I would own every concert in pro quality if possible, it is more likely that Mexico is on film over Wembley for example.. let's all just wait and see. To pass the time, here's a comparison of 3 'Smooth Criminal' performances from the 1992/93' legs.

Bucharest, October 1st 1992:
[video=youtube;tF2r-SNImYs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tF2r-SNImYs[/video]
Buenos Aires, October 12th 1993:
[video=youtube;-GI0dMg6HqA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GI0dMg6HqA[/video]
Mexico City, November 11th 1993:
[video=youtube;-xBpbqt5guo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xBpbqt5guo[/video]
 
mj_frenzy;4112039 said:
I can understand your desire to have a 1992 live, official release.

But, you should take into account that the first leg (1992) almost in its entirety was full of problems, health & technical ones.

I will give a few examples:

From a technical perspective, the 1992 shows seemed to have been far from perfect. I mean that on many dates the stage suffered extreme, weather conditions mostly due to severe rain (for example, Cardiff, Ludwigshafen, second Stockholm show). But despite that, & contrary to advises against performing, MJ appeared on stage. Not to mention, of course, the first Munich show that the show itself suffered a lot of technical errors & I really doubt that all of them (in a magical way) were erased from the second show onwards. Also, it is common practice for shows in general to be plagued by such problems during the first dates (when they still experiment on different things, try to optimize technical matters, etc.), & the ‘Dangerous’ 1992 shows obviously were not an exception to the rule.

But also MJ suffered serious health issues during the 1992 shows. According to Bennett Kleinberg, (his publicist at that time) MJ was taking painkillers in order to survive the shows during 1992. Also, there were times when shows (like Basel, Gelsenkirchen, the third Wembley show) were cancelled at the last minute due to serious health problems (for example, migraine, exhaustion). Also, due to these health problems, many times he was forced to return back to his hotel in an ambulance (Paris, Lausanne, for example). It goes without saying that all the aforementioned health problems have an adverse effect on being full of power & energy.

Finally, I have no reason not to believe you that you have seen every single amateur video ever made available on line.

But, to be perfectly honest with you, I cannot take it seriously that amateur footage (even from all the shows) proves that the first shows (1992) are better in every discernible way.
I'm beyond debating it. It's sad to me that I'm actually having to seem to justify why Mexico 93 should not be released. It seems so perfectly simple and clear to me as to why it would be a horrendous move to put it out.
I have no real desire for any 92 show to be released per-say, more a desire to NOT have the Mexico 93 last show released. I thought the reasons why would be so clear to every single fan. I've been a fan for almost 30 years through all the ups and downs but the one thing MJ had was his legacy, his artistry. But in recent years this has began to be dismantled for the sake of the dollar.
I clearly have a different perspective to you of the difference between right and wrong.

So one of the points your making is about technical difficulties in 92 and suggesting that this would possibly make releasing one of those shows a bad idea (out of all the shows performed in 92) And the one major point I'm making is concerning HUMAN difficulties in Mexico 93. We clearly come from 2 very different places because I would take all technical difficulties in the world over human difficulties.

To say MJ was dependent on pain killers in 92 is nothing more than a trite way to try to justify that it was ok that he was high whilest performing in 93. It's another cop-out to angle the Mexico show as an acceptable release. I've also see words angled on MJBeats as the estate suggesting that MJ wanted this filmed as his farewell concert. Absolute nonsense as the man had no idea it was to be his last.

At the most simple basic entry level of watching MJ live, I would suggest any fan to watch MTV Dangeours Diaries followed by any available footage of Mexico 93 including the tower boot. Any technical difficulties are usually ironed out by the first 5 or 6 shows, anything after that is termed as simply evolving the show. The technical evolution of a show does not effect the performance of MJ, however what does effect the performance of Michael Jackson is stress, anxiety and migraine brought on by false accusations with the entire world watching.

if it were released (which it absolutely will not be) it would show an absolute lack of empathy and understanding towards the mans dignity and plight.
 
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we can debate if Mexico concert should or shouldn't be release but the fact is - it is not really up to us.. Also considering we have a concert from that era released already I doubt that they will go through the trouble on releasing another one.. Especially before releasing one from an era we don't have.. HIStory, Victory etc.

Everyone is going to like different shows, we are never going to be in 100% agreement when it comes to 'taste'.. We all have different songs, different albums, different dance styles, vocals and like different things about Michael.. We are not always going to see in unitedly singing an MJ version of kumbaya (MJ hicupps and all)
 
[video=youtube;LkK4GIwn8jk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkK4GIwn8jk[/video]
[video=youtube;KAHg80npTbI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAHg80npTbI[/video]

The difference is like night and day
 
analogue;4112096 said:
[video=youtube;LkK4GIwn8jk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkK4GIwn8jk[/video]
[video=youtube;KAHg80npTbI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAHg80npTbI[/video]

The difference is like night and day
you can see also the difference in WBSS
 
aazzaabb;4112078 said:
I'm beyond debating it. It's sad to me that I'm actually having to seem to justify why Mexico 93 should not be released. It seems so perfectly simple and clear to me as to why it would be a horrendous move to put it out.
I have no real desire for any 92 show to be released per-say, more a desire to NOT have the Mexico 93 last show released. I thought the reasons why would be so clear to every single fan. I've been a fan for almost 30 years through all the ups and downs but the one thing MJ had was his legacy, his artistry. But in recent years this has began to be dismantled for the sake of the dollar.
I clearly have a different perspective to you of the difference between right and wrong.

So one of the points your making is about technical difficulties in 92 and suggesting that this would possibly make releasing one of those shows a bad idea (out of all the shows performed in 92) And the one major point I'm making is concerning HUMAN difficulties in Mexico 93. We clearly come from 2 very different places because I would take all technical difficulties in the world over human difficulties.

To say MJ was dependent on pain killers in 92 is nothing more than a trite way to try to justify that it was ok that he was high whilest performing in 93. It's another cop-out to angle the Mexico show as an acceptable release. I've also see words angled on MJBeats as the estate suggesting that MJ wanted this filmed as his farewell concert. Absolute nonsense as the man had no idea it was to be his last.

At the most simple basic entry level of watching MJ live, I would suggest any fan to watch MTV Dangeours Diaries followed by any available footage of Mexico 93 including the tower boot. Any technical difficulties are usually ironed out by the first 5 or 6 shows, anything after that is termed as simply evolving the show. The technical evolution of a show does not effect the performance of MJ, however what does effect the performance of Michael Jackson is stress, anxiety and migraine brought on by false accusations with the entire world watching.

if it were released (which it absolutely will not be) it would show an absolute lack of empathy and understanding towards the mans dignity and plight.

This fixation about not releasing a 1993 show is becoming really inexplicable.

I know that you are beyond debating but I have to provide some answers:

1. Any technical difficulties are not usually ironed out by the first 5 or 6 shows.


Technical difficulties (as imponderable factors) cannot be forecasted & usually keep reappearing in different forms & times, even after many dates.

For example, take into account that the Bucharest show, the final show from the first leg, was plagued by various errors & mistakes. That’s why, the HBO version is essentially a mix of different shots from different shows. Notice some songs from the BBC version (the original version that included exclusively the Bucharest show) & you can see the major differences by yourself.

2. A possible 1993 live release (for example, the Mexico show) does not show at all an absolute lack of understanding towards the man’s dignity and plight.

People will see the enormous, unwavering support that MJ received from the audience during those months. Take into account also that half a million (in total) people attended those Mexican shows honouring, in this way, his dignity & sympathizing with his plight in the best possible way.

3. By saying that MJ was dependent on painkillers in 1992 I did not mean to try to justify that it was ok that he was high whilst performing in 1993.

This is just a correlation you made up on your own.

I never said (or implied) that thing, let alone to use it as trite way to justify anything.

4. I do not think at all that it has to do with a clearly different perspective of the difference between right and wrong.


For example:

There are fans that really enjoy the 1992 shows.
There are fans that really enjoy the 1993 shows.
There are fans that really enjoy the 2001 MSG shows.
etc.

I mean different people like different things & thus they have a desire for different official releases.

For me, this is perfectly normal & of course it has nothing to do with the difference between right and wrong. It just comes down to every single fan’s personal taste.

For example, although MJ encountered great human difficulties during those MSG 2001 anniversary shows, I am pretty sure there are a lot of fans who really enjoy these 2 concerts. They are not to be blamed for that, of course.

Lastly, there are millions of fans who express their honest sympathy & devotion towards MJ in multiple ways. The fact that they probably want an official, 1993 live show obviously does not take their fan loyalty away in the slightest.
 
mj_frenzy;4112115 said:
There are fans that really enjoy the 1993 shows.
I'm pretty sure most of them don't want it to be officially released. I like watching Buenos Aires but I would never want it to be released. 1992 concerts are much better. If Mexico City concert is in HD then I would like to see it but I don't believe it is.
 
I can't believe I'm actually seeing people defending the possible release of this show.
 
Zakk;4112007 said:
Still exceeds 30th anniversary and anything done since

Michael was 35 years old during the Mexico closing night performance and was spiraling into addiction; he had been in excellent shape for years beforehand. He was 43 years old during the 30th anniversary shows and had been experimenting with medication for years, not to mention his body slowing down simply because of age.

Comparing the two is ridiculous. Besides, it's easy to outdo the 30th anniversary shows - they were pretty bad.
 
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