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[Discussion] Sexual Abuse Claims Against MJ Estate - Robson/ Safechuck/ Doe

Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

marebear said:
The only person abused here was Michael. He was abused physically, emotionally, verbally, psychologically and financially most of his life. He was abused by the media, the paps and the public. He was used by people and people looked at him like he was an ATM machine. Michael wouldn't hurt a bug on the stage let alone a child. What he suffered as a child always stayed with him and I don't believe he would traumatize another person because he knows what it's like to live with pain from abuse. I also think if the Today show really has him on that it really shows how desperate they are as well.
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And that's the sad truth :(
 
Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

^^Yes. Once you begin to doubt using the theory that "if even Wade could do this, then it could be true," then it means you do not understand the cases, including what motivated the families, the inconsistencies of what took place, the way the detectives interviewed one of the victims, & the facts. The simplest thing to do is get the information and do some reading.

Then, what is so special about Wade that people crumble because he decided to sell Michael out for money? Wade is not a super human. He is a human that most of us do not know about. Think about how many people would have been criminals, if they did not have a job. It could be someone in your circle, who would sell out or steal because he felt he had no other choice, so there is nothing special about Wade. Some people take the easy way out. I think with the drugs he takes, his mind has become weak which makes it easier for him to engage in this campaign that he cannot win. Anyway now that he is going to court, we will find out why he was let go from 2 positions. We know the people did not want to speak about it, so that his chances of obtaining work in the business would not be ruined. Welcome to Hawaii Wade.

I wonder if he will fly back after the show?
 
Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I wonder if Wade has ever tried to get any work with the estate bedside the CD shows?
 
Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

morinen thank you for the suggestion and the text.

I have sent emails but with adaptions.
 
Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

If this case goes to court and Michael is found not guilty at the end, can Wade still talk about being "abused" by Michael in interviews or can the Estate sue him for slander if he does that?
 
Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

LindavG said:
If this case goes to court and Michael is found not guilty at the end, can Wade still talk about being "abused" by Michael in interviews or can the Estate sue him for slander if he does that?
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Michael can't be found guilty. It isn't a criminal case.
 
Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

StellaJackson said:
Michael can't be found guilty. It isn't a criminal case.
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OK, liable then (if that's the right term).

The reason I'm asking is because Wade has talked about Michael all his life, in pretty much every interview he does. His association with MJ is a huge reason for why he even gets interviewed at all. So I can't see how that's suddenly going to change, except now he can't praise him anymore like he used to. But if he accuses MJ of molesting him when the court says his accusations are unfounded, there must be something the Estate can do about it, right?
 
Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

The question is should we watch live or not? I want to see what he says; see what we are dealing with here but I don't want to give him or Today the ratings. I hope y'all will be recording and such I'd record it myself but have nothing to record with.
 
Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

earthlyme said:
I feel like He's gonna say "May fools" or something on the Today show. I dont know what to think at this point...I'm just gonna go with the flow and see what happens...
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Yeah, I have this weird dream/hope/phantasy this is some kind of 'sting operation' that could end any second with a press conference and the words: "I wanted to demonstrate what happened to Michael and the joke's on you." Like some kind of sick and weird campaign to demonstrate to the world at large how wrongful accusation and extortion can ruin people.

Or that maybe sick individuals exploited someone for their own benefit. People have literally gassed others to death despite their better judgement.

I can't believe that this is even happening. My mind is on autopilot. The facts are clear. An innocent man.

*DISCLAIMER, I consider Michael the shining universes of my existence*
Btw, those who aid an actual pedophile carry guilt. Immense guilt. That is why repressed memory is not going to fly. Abuse in domestic relationships with financial dependencies and continued abuse can indeed damage a person and hold them hostage, even mentally Michael has been gone for almost 4 years. Those being shackled by abuse and praise their abuser don't go that over the top. They expend just as much energy to not 'anger' their abuser as needed - praise them too much and your abuser will attack you for that, too. Been there, done that.
Never in a million years would I defend the man who did abuse me. I made sure to inform law enforcement, partly so that any other woman after me has a chance to stumble across this roadblock.
I puked in a court bathroom out of fear to have to see him again. Having to look at your abuser in a courtroom is awful. Because your head is full with "nobody thinks your worth anything and I'll give you something real to cry about" speech - all the while your abuser is throwing you looks. (my abuser managed to sneak up to me during a break and whispered that my attorney should have been shot with a bullet through her head).
I remember completely freaking out when I saw my abusers car parked next to my hideout - or so I thought. I had no control over these reactions.

I'm the first one in line to tout the incredibly awful dynamics of abuse, the mental shackles around your mind are incredible. They are hard to describe.
The thing is though - having lived through it enables your abuser radar to a degree that almost scary.
And I envy all those individuals who had the joy and luck to be loved by Michael and to enjoy his friendship. I'm glad others got to experience Michael's loving company.
I don't even trust other people with my child, there are no teenage babysitters here, grandparents are the only ones. And Michael.

I am mystified. I have strange dreams pretty often but this whole situation is like a nightmare without end.
 
Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

^^Yes they can go after Wade. They can even show how Wade statements hurt certain business transactions, etc and go after him. I think you have to show possible damage that his behavior causes. It is like when the tabloids write lies about someone, the person can say that a business would not want to work with me because what you write shows I am untrustworthy. Then the person's lawyer can negotiate a settlement where tab gives the person money and also puts a tiny retraction in the paper.
 
Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Petrarose said:
^^Yes they can go after Wade. They can even show how Wade statements hurt certain business transactions, etc and go after him. I think you have to show possible damage that his behavior causes. It is like when the tabloids write lies about someone, the person can say that a business would not want to work with me because what you write shows I am untrustworthy. Then the person's lawyer can negotiate a settlement where tab gives the person money and also puts a tiny retraction in the paper.
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OK, that's good to hear. They need to shut him up for good so that he can't do any more damage to MJ's reputation when this court case is over.
 
Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I'm sorry, but I cannot find the link to the live blog by T. Mez. tonight. Does anyone have that link handy? Thank you.

Edit: Nevermind - Found it. Here it is for anyone interested. He will be discussing this mess. http://www.blogtalkradio.com/jordan-king
 
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Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Let's remember that NBC hired Martin Bashir. And also Victor Gutierrez creepy behind worked for NBC during the 03 allegations. So not surprised they are the first to jump on this Wade BS! He got people helping him with this in the background, no doubt! He truly sold his soul for $$$$$ out of a grudge, I believe! If Wade was used for MJs Cirque and if MJ were alive today, no way, no how would Wade have done this. He is truly a desperate, pathetic and poor excuse for a man! 20 yrs defending MJ, don't give me that repressed shit now.-_-
 
Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

TMZ says Wade Robson filed a Civil Lawsuit. Robson is targeting MJJ Productions, Michael's Music Label, and MJJ Ventures which produce MJ Videos. They hired Wade when he was 11years old. Robson is also targeting John Branca and John McClain, He say they should have protected him when Michael brought them to the United States. Plus his claim of sexual abuse.
 
Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Something in Wade's civil suit reminds me of the Katherine/AEG case. In a sense Katherine is saying AEG should have protected Michael & they didn't, so Muarry caused him harm. They claim that AEG should have seen the Muarry red flags & then investigate him & not hire him. Wade is saying that these businesses are liable because they did not protect him from Michael. I guess he would make it sound as though Michael saw him & then brought him to the US for his own plans, when all Michael did was help the mother, which is all in her 05 testimony.

Blue true ^^ NBC is not interested in the truth, but getting a nasty story to boost ratings, and if it is Michael centered better yet. They will not question this guy to find out the truth about anything. They will let him make his claims/allegations. Then the next day, the copy & paste press will write about it all saying the same thing. They will affix a horrible headline above the information to discredit Michael, & all the public will read & say what another one, then it must be true.
 
Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

I hope he sues his Mother for not protecting him
 
Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Gold Pants Girl said:
The tabloids claimed back in '93 that Wade was given the record deal as a payoff and bribe, I think he will use that as to why he lied back then while it was supposedly happening. If Sony and MJJ Productions and other MJJ corps. are really listed in the suit, this could be why.
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if he had repressed his memories why would anyone give him a record deal as a payoff or bribe?

Justthefacts said:
We know that David Edwards. Who is David Edwards?
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a fan, one of the admins of vincidatemj forum who extensively writes about 2005 trial
 
Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

GOOD POINT ^^ He would not need a bribe as a record label if he had no memory. Unless the bribe was to keep him "sweet" in case his memory came back, but once the memory came back he could still keep the bribe and blab & sue.
 
Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

ivy said:
if he had repressed his memories why would anyone give him a record deal as a payoff or bribe?
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In 1993, the "abuse" would have still been ongoing so his memories wouldn't be repressed yet. I assume Wade is going to argue that the repression happened after the abuse ended. Then again, wouldn't this record deal be a constant reminder for him?
 
Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

The biggest problem I have with this is that Wade can say anything he wants. How is the court supposed to know for sure if he's lying or not? He sounds to me like he'll say anything to make his story sound true. Michael's legacy is on the line purely because of what this guy says. And some doctor will back him up by going on and on about "repressed memory". I believe this whole case is based on nothing but talk, talk and more talk. Not real evidence.
 
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Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

earthlyme said:
I thought Michael didnt bring them to the US BUT that he Sponsored them 6months after they came to the US, didnt Joy R. Testify to that?
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Yes, they reached out to Michael for help when they came to the US, not the other way around. At least, that's what they testified back in 2005.
 
Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Kingofpop4ever3000 said:
This biggest problem I have with this is that Wade can say anything he wants. How is the court supposed to know know for sure if he's lying or not? He sounds to me like he'll say anything to make his story sound true. Michael's legacy is on the line purely because of what this guy says. And some doctor will back him up by going on and on about "repressed memory". I believe this whole case is based on nothing but talk, talk and more talk. Not real evidence.
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Because the whole existence of "repressed memories" is highly controversial and not accepted by mainstream psychology. When this is your only evidence that any abuse took place, especially in Wade's case (who "recovered" his memories during therapy after a mental breakdown) I doubt any court will judge in his favour. I'm not worried.
 
Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

mdiegee210 said:
TMZ says Wade Robson filed a Civil Lawsuit. Robson is targeting MJJ Productions, Michael's Music Label, and MJJ Ventures which produce MJ Videos. They hired Wade when he was 11years old. Robson is also targeting John Branca and John McClain, He say they should have protected him when Michael brought them to the United States. Plus his claim of sexual abuse.
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Delusional much?? People that file restraining orders are barely able to present witnesses at court.

Btw, greencards and also citizenship can be revoked if it is determined that the original visas were obtained on incorrect information - and you're also under oath.
The hair on my neck stood pretty upright when I read that whole "we came here as tourists and tracked him down and then he agreed to be our sponsor".

I honestly cannot wrap my mind around this. This sounds weirdly like 'creating a paper trail' to prove something.

And maybe somebody can explain to him again that a 'sponsor' is not forever obligated to pay should the need arise. Something stinks to high heaven.

Michael 'brought' them to the US? Weird, I thought Joy Robson stated in her testimony they met in Australia first and they flew over to the US and didn't even have his number and had to track Michael down?
Yeaaaaaaah, right. A "sponsor" merely signs that for a certain number of years a sponsor will be asked to financially contribute should the foreign individual have any needs in form of public benefits. It's a financial safety net the US government throws out to keep foreigners from certain public benefits (no matter how many times talk radio likes to rile up the mob about 'them illegals' and public benefits.)

This is getting more bizarre by the minute. I also recall signing liability waivers at 2 MJ video shootings. Pretty muddy puddle here - it would have been his mother who signed the paper work (you don't just 'shoot' on a set..).

earthlyme said:
I thought Michael didnt bring them to the US BUT that he Sponsored them 6months after they came to the US, didnt Joy R. Testify to that?
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Not only did she testified to that - but it would also be reflected in the immigration files. Point and date of entry (that annoying piece of paper that gets you into trouble when a sleepy airline employee doesn't remove it and forward to USCIS - "INS" back in the day) and also when applications for the visa were filed. Definitely not fancy back in the day, but you better believe that you have a file, especially since I assume that he would have been naturalized at some point - and yes, there is a paper trail on that, too.
The original immigration file would also state if the applicant is already in the country at the time of filing. Things were A LOT more lenient in that day and age - that wouldn't even fly today.
"You came here as a tourist and were suddenly hired when you said at the point of entry you're just a tourist?"

I don't know when the laws changed etc, I don't know USCIS laws that far back - but did somebody say 6 months after arrival? These days people on the visa waiver program (the US allows the citizens of 'rich' countries like the European Union etc to legally stay 90 days, aka, 3 months - without a visa. Everybody from Africa, Russia, Asia etc doesn't even get to play tourist without a visa.
 
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Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Petrarose said:
GOOD POINT ^^ He would not need a bribe as a record label if he had no memory. Unless the bribe was to keep him "sweet" in case his memory came back, but once the memory came back he could still keep the bribe and blab & sue.
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The memories weren't repressed as it was "happening", that came after it "ended". The record deal was signed in late 1993, in the middle of his "molestation".
 
Harvard Prof. to Calif. Supreme Court: ‘Repressed Memory’ is ‘The Most Pernicious Bit of Folklore Ever To Infect Psychology and Psychiatry’
SEPTEMBER 10, 2010 BY THEMEDIAREPORT.COM
As I assert in my book, Double Standard: Abuse Scandals and the Attack on the Catholic Church, the issue of "repressed memories" is yet another unreported component of the Catholic Church abuse narrative. For my book I culled several quotes from leading psychologists and experts in the science of memory:
"The notion that the mind protects itself by banishing the most disturbing, terrifying events is psychiatric folklore … The more traumatic and stressful something is, the less likely someone is to forget it." – psychology professor Richard J. McNally, Harvard University (Daniel Lyons, “Sex, God & Greed,” Forbes, June 9, 2003);
"Recovered-memory therapy will come to be recognized as the quackery of the 20th century." – Richard Ofshe, a social psychologist at the University of California, Berkeley (Leon Jaroff and Jeanne McDowell, “Repressed-Memory Therapy: Lies of the Mind,” Time, November 29, 1993);
"If penis envy made us look dumb, this will make us look totally gullible." – Paul McHugh, chairman of the psychiatry department at Johns Hopkins University (Leon Jaroff and Jeanne McDowell, “Repressed-Memory Therapy: Lies of the Mind,” Time, November 29, 1993);
You can’t be raped for 10 years and not remember it. Yet, according to the repression aficionados, anything's possible." – Elizabeth Loftus, professor of psychology at the University of California Irvine (Sasha Abramsky, “Memory and Manipulation: The trials of Elizabeth Loftus, defender of the wrongly accused,” LA Weekly, August 19, 2004).
Now Dr. Richard McNally (cited above), who wrote a very respected book on the topic (Remembering Trauma), has taken his research to the California Supreme Court:
From the Australian Broadcasting Corporation (9/6/10):
Research finds repressed memories don't exist
By Karen Berkman
idea that traumatised people, especially the victims of child sexual abuse, deliberately repress horrific memories goes all the way back to the 19th century and the theories of Sigmund Freud himself.
But now some experts are saying the evidence points the other way.
Professor Grant Devilly, from Griffith University's Psychological Health research unit, says the memory usually works in the opposite way, with traumatised people reliving experiences they would rather forget.
"It's the opposite. They wish they couldn't think about it," he said.
In a briefing to the California Supreme Court, Professor Richard McNally from Harvard University described the theory of repressed memory as "the most pernicious bit of folklore ever to infect psychology and psychiatry".
He maintains false memories can easily be created by inept therapists.
"The stress hormones that are released during a trauma tend to consolidate the memory, make it rather strong and sometimes even intrusive, as you see in post-traumatic stress disorder," he said.
But Professor McNally says some abuse victims do suffer when they reassess childhood experiences much later.
"Seeing the event through the eyes of adult, they realise what has happened to them and now they experience the emotional turmoil of trauma," he said.
The good news is that now, Professor McNally says most victims can be helped.
"Things have changed, happily. We now have treatments that work," he said.
The article continues at abc.net.
Again … this is a component of the Catholic Church abuse narrative that must be approached with caution and sensitivity. Not all abuse victims claim "repressed memories" when coming forward with their charges! The sickening memory of despicable abuse is all too real and horrific for too many individuals.
However, this is an element of the abuse narrative that has been most certainly dismissed by the American media. (Did you notice that the news story came from Australia?) Indeed, a number of people have come forward in recent years claiming "repressed memories" when accusing a priest of abuse. The claim is often several years – usually decades – after the alleged incidents.

http://www.themediareport.com/2010/...ore-ever-to-infect-psychology-and-psychiatry/
 
Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Ivy, can you answer my question in post #1609?
 
Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

mdiegee210 said:
TMZ says Wade Robson filed a Civil Lawsuit. Robson is targeting MJJ Productions, Michael's Music Label, and MJJ Ventures which produce MJ Videos. They hired Wade when he was 11years old. Robson is also targeting John Branca and John McClain, He say they should have protected him when Michael brought them to the United States. Plus his claim of sexual abuse.
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What the heck does mjj productions, music labels etc got to do with this???? did wade expect them to be his babysitters???seriously this is getting ridiclous by the mintue!
 
Re: Wade Robson files claim of childhood sexual abuse against MJ-Estate

Pimboli said:
not to mention the whole cirque thing. There are plenty of explanations as to why he came up with this cr*p.
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Something bad must have went down between mj cirque show & wade and so this is him rebelling
 
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