respect77;4200429 said:
^ Yes, I realized the "secret rooms" nonsense. BTW, that also would refute Charli Michaels' story who claimed they were at the theater. As you know Charli Michaels' story goes on claiming that she witnessed MJ and Wade dance in the theater when she served them meal and she witnessed MJ grab Wade' crotch. I am sure Wade would want to use that story as well if it went to trial, but with this newly invented "secret rooms" story he just contradicted that too. Where were they then? In "secret rooms" or dancing in the theater - not at all secretly, since allegedly everyone knew they were there (Norma, Charli Michaels and Joy) - only Joy was allegedly restricted from entering? Which one of the story is true then? Probably neither.
What a mess. I guess he will say my mother didn't find me because I was either in the theater or the secret room as Michael wanted to molest
me all day in both of those places, like that makes sense.
They really can't get his profile straight: was he a blatant brazen abuser or a super careful stealth abuser?
Does it make sense for a molester to first call for an employee and then molest the kid just when the employee arrives
and at the same time hide the kid from everyone in a secret room?
As Helena pointed out two other ex-employee stories include this odd element:
“He yelled for security and I saw it from where I was standing” (Ralph Chacon),
“He asked for French fries and I saw it when I brought them to the arcade” (Phillip Lemarque)
All three talked to Gutierrez. The whole thing is so absurd it's trademark Gutierrez brainfart.
In fact Charlie Michaels' story is the twin of another Gutierrez fantasy, Blanca Francia's shower tale.
Here's Michaels':
Ms. Michaels then was called to the main house to pick up lunch for Michael Jackson and Wade Robson and take it to them at the dance studio in the theatre. Around 2:00 to 2:30 p.m., while waiting in the main house to pick up the lunch, she saw Wade and Michael at the rear of the house. She lost sight of Jackson and Wade Robson before the lunches were ready, so she took the lunches and drove to the theatre. As Ms. Michaels entered the theatre, she put the lunches on the snack bar in the theatre lobby. She then heard music coming from the dance studio, which was located just to the left of the lobby, but she assumed that Michael Jackson and Wade were still at the house. She approached the studio to open the studio’s door and turn off the music.
As Ms. Michaels opened the studio door, she saw the reflections of Michael Jackson and Wade Robson in the huge mirror on the wall of the dance studio. She was standing approximately five to seven feet away from the mirror.
Ms. Michaels immediately left the theatre to avoid detection by either Jackson or Robson. She realized that Jackson’s acts were inappropriate and that Jackson could have shown Wade this particular dance move without standing over him and placing his hands on Wade’s genital area. However, she was concerned that she would lose her job if she shared her observation with anyone in authority.”
And Francia's story (one version at least):
Charlie Michaels enters the theater believes no one is there goes to turn off the music sees the reflection of MJ and Wade in the huge mirror sees MJ touching Wade then just leaves and does nothing because she is afraid losing her job.
Blanca Francia enters the bedroom believes no one is there goes to the shower to turn off the water sees the reflection of MJ and Wade on the shower glass, sees Wade's head pressed against MJ's stomach then just leaves and does nothing because she is afraid losing her job.
Damn if these two didn't have the same source. Only Gutierrez can come up with something this stupid:
Michaels instructed to take food to Wade and MJ to the dance studio then she loses sight of Wade and MJ and when she goes there and hears music she doesn't think Wade and MJ are there. No, she assumes they are still at the house and the music therefore should be turned off. In Michael Jackson's dance studio of all places! After she was told Wade and MJ will be there and lost sight of them. Give this man the Nobel prize for literature.
According to Joy she couldn't find Wade on Mother's day because Wade was sleeping all day so Michaels saw a sleepwalking Wade Robson at 2:00 to 2:30 p.m.
9 Q. And it was Mother’s Day?
10 A. That’s right.
11 Q. And you found out that the reason that you hadn’t seen your son that day was because he had been sleeping all day, correct?
14 A. I think so. Yeah.
In her deposition she told Feldman that Wade would rather be with MJ than with her
and she felt MJ was separating her from Wade:
15 Q. And you spoke to some people at the ranch about your feelings, did you not, one of the employees?
18 A. I think someone asked me if I was okay.
19 Q. And you told them that you felt that your son would rather be with Michael Jackson than with you, correct?
22 A. I don’t remember saying that.
23 Q. Do you know somebody by the name of Charli Michaels?
25 A. Yes.
26 Q. And who is Charli Michaels?
27 A. I think she worked security at the ranch.
28 Q. And did you tell Charli Michaels that you felt that the defendant, Michael Jackson, was separating you from your son?
3 A. I don’t recall saying it.
4 Q. Do you recall testifying to that in your deposition with Mr. Feldman?
6 A. No.
21 Q. You said that Wade would rather be with Michael than with yourself and you were upset about it?
24 A. Well, I read it, but I honestly don’t remember saying it.
I can imagine that Wade wanted to be with Michael rather than his mother when he had the chance, he saw his mother every day
but Michael only rarely after all. However, now she makes it sounds like Michael deliberately kept her son away from her and it was not Wade's choice,
she embraced Sneddon's innuendo:
But if Wade was sleeping all day how does that prove MJ was keeping him away from Joy?
What makes her think that Michael was even with Wade while he was sleeping all day?
Michael could be anywhere while Wade was sleeping in his room.
This could explain why he was sleeping all day, why he was awake all night:
I remember the first time he taught me the moonwalk at the dance studio at Neverland. I was 7, I think. I remember standing at the ballet barre and him teaching me to push back one foot at a time, teaching me the weight distribution on the balls of the feet. “Now just go, push off, and fly!” he said.
That night I couldn’t sleep. I had to get up every 15 minutes and do it again.
http://www.dancemagazine.com/remembering-michael-jackson-2306879197.html
It's quite possible that at some point during the May 1990 visit MJ indeed asked Charlie Michaels to bring food to the dance studio
where he and Wade were dancing and Michaels saw them. Then she (or rather Gutierrez) simply added the crotch-grabbing and Norma Staikos to the story.
Joy is wildly exaggerating and contradicting herself here and makes the Charlie Michaels story even more baffling:
1. When you want to find someone there is no need to verbalize how you are feeling you
just want information about where the person is. Of course she was allowed to ask
guards and others to help her find Wade.
2. Did Joy ask Michaels about Wade's whereabouts? If not why not?
If she did ask what was Michaels' response? If Michaels told her they are at the theater why didn't Joy go there?
Or Michaels told her she didn't see Wade anywhere? Knowing that Joy was looking for Wade what did Michaels do
after she saw them in the theater? Wouldn't it be logical to inform Joy?
3. We know from the Arvizo case that they talked to the staff and vice versa and no one was reprimanded for it.
Chris Carter talked to Gavin Arvizo, Star talked to Angel Vivanco Janet Arvizo even had this nice long conversation with Maria Gomez about
how she was feeling, that Michael was wonderful but those three others was holding her against her will and separating her from Michael
and she asked Jesus Salas to take her home which he did. Either the Arvizos and these employees didn't get the memo
or they didn't care and talked anyway or there was no such directive at all.
13 Q. Do you recall Janet Arvizo ever saying nice things about Michael Jackson?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. And what did she say?
20 THE WITNESS: That he was like a father.
26 Q. And did she start the conversation with you?
27 A. Yes.
10 Q. Did Janet Arvizo ever talk to you about her son’s illness?
12 A. Yes,
28 Q. Well, did she ever say anything about Michael Jackson helping her family with the son’s illness?
6 THE WITNESS: Yes. That he had been a blessing to them; and that he was the type o person -- he was like a father to her children.
12 Q. Did Janet Arvizo ever tell you she was being held against her will at Neverland?
14 A. After that conversation, about a week later she began to talk about being there against her will.
17 Q. And what did she say?
18 A. That we should help her leave.
19 Q. Did she ever mention someone named Dieter Weizner?
21 A. On that occasion she said that three persons, including that person Dieter, they were holding her there.
24 Q. And did she say anything about they’re interfering with her relationship with Michael Jackson?
2 THE WITNESS: That they were interfering with her relationship with him, yes.
10 Q. Did she ever mention someone named Frank Cascio?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And did she say he was interfering with Janet’s relationship with Michael Jackson?
15 A. Yes.
20 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Did she ever mention a Vinnie Amen?
22 THE INTERPRETER: I’m sorry, what was that?
23 Q. BY MR. MESEREAU: Did she ever mention someone named Vinnie Amen?
25 A. Oh, Vinnie, yes.
26 Q. Did she complain about him as well?
27 A. Yes.
28 Q. Did she say anything about whether he was interfering with her friendship with Michael Jackson?
3 A. Yes.
9 Q. Okay. At some point, do you recall Janet asking Jesus to take her home?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. And were you with Janet and Jesus when you heard that?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. And where were you?
16 A. In that -- on that occasion we were in Unit 4.
17 Q. Was Jesus there as well?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And did Janet say she wanted to leave Neverland?
21 A. Yes.
But Charlie Michaels was not allowed to help Joy locate Wade. Don't buy it.
4. MJ probably didn't like if his staff gossiped about his personal business , no wonder,
every single one of them was a potential tabloid source. If I had been him I would have wanted
to keep them away from my guests' personal issues. This protected not only MJ but the guests too.
Most likely MJ was angry at Joy because she made him look bad, like he didn't care that it was Mother's day
and kept Wade away from him. When in fact the reason why Wade was nowhere to be seen was
mundane: he slept in MJ's room all day after doing the moonwalk all night.
