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Does MJ own his own catalog, 100%?

What does NHT stand for? So from reading all of this I'm getting that Michael gets his profit from Sony/ATV every month or however often and this amount he gets is after what has been taken to pay off the loan?
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that is the name of mjs trust. from what aveeno said who has the docs and what was posted ages ago. all the money mj makes off sony/atv goes directly into the NHT trust.from the trust it goes to apying his debt.its a good way of making sure you dont default as u cant really touch it.

How does it become Sony/ATV's responsibility to repay the loan, when it was Michael that took it out? Surely it can't be because the catalogue is being used as collateral. Is it something to do with the refinancing deal with Sony? This is all very confusing.
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it isnt sonys/atvs responsibilty its MJs. he just takes the money he makes from it and uses it to pay the debt as i said above

Who owns the loan now? If it's being refinanced so many times and hearing that Sony have helped him refinance it, wait am I getting it...? Sony is repaying its own loan?
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fortress owns it i believe. at one point city bank was going ot take it after offering mj a better deal but fortress offered to equal it so it stayed with them
 
elusive moonwalker said:
yes thats right.from what i remember aveeno saying. yeah its alot to pay off when u cut it down like that but from what she said thats how it seems to be. she said on one thread that mj paid off around $45 mill in one payment a while back.



yeah basically the 50% mj makes off sonyatv goes into NHT and from there goes straight to paying off his personal debts. from what was said whenthe sony/atv deal was done sony alone pays all the administration and what not fees. so non of that money comes from mj and his 50%. mj gets a straight 50 while sony have to use some of theirs to pay for administration etc. obviously its abit different and not as simplistic because sony isnt one person like mj its a whole company but its a rough idea.
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Wow. That's sweet. I didn't know that. But I would imagine that any financing used to obtain new acquisitions he would participate in.... or would he? I mean, isn't there some sort of out clause that allows MJ to pull the ATV portion from Sony??? I never got how that worked.
 
elusive moonwalker said:
yes thats right.from what i remember aveeno saying. yeah its alot to pay off when u cut it down like that but from what she said thats how it seems to be. she said on one thread that mj paid off around $45 mill in one payment a while back.



yeah basically the 50% mj makes off sonyatv goes into NHT and from there goes straight to paying off his personal debts. from what was said whenthe sony/atv deal was done sony alone pays all the administration and what not fees. so non of that money comes from mj and his 50%. mj gets a straight 50 while sony have to use some of theirs to pay for administration etc. obviously its abit different and not as simplistic because sony isnt one person like mj its a whole company but its a rough idea.
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That doesn't even make any sense. In true accounting, all the expenditures will be deducted before any gross profit is realised, That will include wages and bills. Only after that and the paying of royalties will the profit be considered. Also tax must be payed by the company. So it isn't accurate to say that MJ doesn't pay any bills.
 
Hey, this is a question I do have: If Fortress still owns that loan, then why in the devil were they suing MJ? I thought Fortress was a middle company in this whole thing and that their fee was a finder's fee for hooking MJ up with BOA?
 
But I would imagine that any financing used to obtain new acquisitions he would participate in.... or would he? I mean, isn't there some sort of out clause that allows MJ to pull the ATV portion from Sony??? I never got how that worked
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do u mean that if sony/atv wants to buy a new cat they have to get mjs permission? yes they have toget mjs agreement as hes co owner. pulling the ATV? i guess u mean ending the venture? not sure how that works i guess its all in the contract.think its been mentioned about both sides beign able to edn the deal at different points in time.but no side would want to imo. its worth to much money.mj slackened up alot interms of letting sony/atv do more things after all the refinacing hence all the deals that have been done over the last year or so.more than has gone on for years before
 
Datsymay said:
That doesn't even make any sense. In true accounting, all the expenditures will be deducted before any gross profit is realised, That will include wages and bills. Only after that and the paying of royalties will the profit be considered. Also tax must be payed by the company. So it isn't accurate to say that MJ doesn't pay any bills.
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Unless that's the deal that MJ worked out with Sony in order for Sony to acquire his ATV catalog. In that case, it would be possible for Sony to incur the cost that EM spoke of.

That's why I asked the question about MJ (minus the whole refinancing/debt mess) has an escape clause allowing him to walk with ALL of his ATV cat....
 
elusive moonwalker said:
do u mean that if sony/atv wants to buy a new cat they have to get mjs permission? yes they have toget mjs agreement as hes co owner. pulling the ATV? i guess u mean ending the venture? not sure how that works i guess its all in the contract.think its been mentioned about both sides beign able to edn the deal at different points in time.but no side would want to imo. its worth to much money.mj slackened up alot interms of letting sony/atv do more things after all the refinacing hence all the deals that have been done over the last year or so.more than has gone on for years before
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Duh yeah. Sry bout that. Another Sr. moment of my brain working faster than I type. I didn't completely type out the question I had. Yeah, I meant financing for new cat acquisitions....
 
Hey, this is a question I do have: If Fortress still owns that loan, then why in the devil were they suing MJ? I thought Fortress was a middle company in this whole thing and that their fee was a finder's fee for hooking MJ up with BOA?
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u mean precident?

dats just remembering what was said when the deal was done and has been talked about on here before all admin fees and what not were to be paid by sony and not mj as apart of the deal i think denis has talked about this
 
Unless that's the deal that MJ worked out with Sony in order for Sony to acquire his ATV catalog. In that case, it would be possible for Sony to incur the cost that EM spoke of.
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yeah that was the deal from what i remember reading and seeing posted on here as a part of the merger deal sony took all admin etc costs
 
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Sorry for adding to the issue, but who knowns the jackson's songs, and can't mike just buy the songs that the jackson 5 has made with motown or does he have to buy the whole thing, just askin'
 
i guess he could make berry gordy an offer just to buy the J5 songs but it would be bad business for berry to do that. u dont want to be spliting cats up. there was talk mj wanted to buy the motown cat in the lates 80s but berry was asking to much
 
Thanx 4 the reply but, what about the jackson's songs after motown?
 
couldnt tell u sorry. i guess they are probably owned bt the actual song writers. leon huff and kenny gamble wrote alot of those. mj actually owns alot of their songs in the mijac cat but i dont think it includes the jackson songs. the songs written by the bros are owned by them i believe. peacock music etc. others will prob have a better idea
 
elusive moonwalker said:
u mean precident?

dats just remembering what was said when the deal was done and has been talked about on here before all admin fees and what not were to be paid by sony and not mj as apart of the deal i think denis has talked about this
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Ah yes! Precident. Thems da ones. I was getting them confused with Fortress.... Thanks.
 
Mrs. SHAME said:
Thanx 4 the reply but, what about the jackson's songs after motown?
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It's part of the Peacock Publishing, which is all of the Jackson brothers... hold on, let me pull my Destiny LP....

Yup, it's Peacock Music, the publishing company the Jackson brothers started... I don't know if MJ turned around and reacquired it under MiJac...
 
elusive moonwalker said:
couldnt tell u sorry. i guess they are probably owned bt the actual song writers. leon huff and kenny gamble wrote alot of those. mj actually owns alot of their songs in the mijac cat but i dont think it includes the jackson songs. the songs written by the bros are owned by them i believe. peacock music etc. others will prob have a better idea
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The Jackson wrote all of the music for Destiny and Triumph, except for 'Blame it on the Boogie', which MJ and D??? Jackson (who is that?) wrote, and one of the songs on Triumph that another writer co-wrote. In fact, Michael, Jackie and Randy wrote the lion share of songs on Triumph.
 
mello1 said:
It's part of the Peacock Publishing, which is all of the Jackson brothers... hold on, let me pull my Destiny LP....

Yup, it's Peacock Music, the publishing company the Jackson brothers started... I don't know if MJ turned around and reacquired it under MiJac...
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Yes, Michael also owns Peacock and Miran Publishing
 
I am looking at what yall are saying, and i all so see siggyjac and ranjac music, this is very kool info to know, again thanx for all the info, and also so could reg people like us get into something like this ?
 
Mrs. SHAME said:
I am looking at what yall are saying, and i all so see siggyjac and ranjac music, this is very kool info to know, again thanx for all the info, and also so could reg people like us get into something like this ?
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What do you mean?
 
Datsymay said:
None of that make any sense. This is why I will always maintain that the loan was never an MJ loan, but a business loan on behalf of the firm that both Sony and MJ are responsible for. That will explain why Sony was at the negotation table with MJ and for no other reason. That would also be the reason why it is Sony/atv which has the responsibilty to repay the loan, and not MJ. If that were the case, then I could see why that amount of loan can be repaid, cause the company is making enough money to repay this debt.
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Dats, you may have a point here and you know why? When Michael was riding on top that bus against Sony, the media reported that Sony said that Michael owed them $200 mil. Michael responded by saying, "For Sony to say that I owe them $200 mil is wrong"....paraphrasing of course. And ever since that, the media has been focusing on this loan and INCREASING it every single time they report on it.
 
Datsymay said:
None of that make any sense. This is why I will always maintain that the loan was never an MJ loan, but a business loan on behalf of the firm that both Sony and MJ are responsible for. That will explain why Sony was at the negotation table with MJ and for no other reason. That would also be the reason why it is Sony/atv which has the responsibilty to repay the loan, and not MJ. If that were the case, then I could see why that amount of loan can be repaid, cause the company is making enough money to repay this debt.
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Datsymay said:
I think only the artist get royalties. They are paid before MJ and sony are paid any thing. The shareholders get dividends and what is left is divided up between MJ and sony as profit, after some is paid back into the company. MJ aslo get a salary for the work he does for the company. Even though MJ owns half the company, he still must be paid for any work done for the companmy. he is on the company board, because they do consult him for advice, and that alone ios a lot of money. he also consults with artiosts that he wants to encourage to sigh with the company. For this MJ is paid a company fee $8-10 mill. That was revealed in documents.
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But I don't think that Sony/ATV is a publicly traded company. Sony Corp is though. So there are no dividends to shareholders involved here.
 
since when is the artist paid first? record companies and publishers were always paid first, and the artist last after the others broke even. why is it being said that all of a sudden, changed, now that MJ is in the position of being publisher?
 
vncwilliam said:
since when is the artist paid first? record companies and publishers were always paid first, and the artist last after the others broke even. why is it being said that all of a sudden, changed, now that MJ is in the position of being publisher?
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What I mean is that the artists must be paid their royalties before the company can claim x amount as net profit. The artists will be paid after every expenses are paid out, but they will only be paid a fixed percentage of the gross profit, that is the profit before tax. The company is safe, don't worry.
 
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vncwilliam said:
since when is the artist paid first? record companies and publishers were always paid first, and the artist last after the others broke even. why is it being said that all of a sudden, changed, now that MJ is in the position of being publisher?
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Owning your own publishing catalog is not the same as an artist under contract. Artists who own their publishing rights will get paid publishing royalties directly. Artists under a recording contract does tend to get paid last, after the record company deduct recording costs and other expenses. That's why artists tend to make their money touring and making other public appearances for a fee. Unless you are an established superstar who can negotiate a higher % of the cut from album sells and get a whopping signing bonus, you don't tend to make much from the record companies. What Dat is referring to is the record companies' accounting balance sheets and how corporations account for their funds. It kinda confuses the issue.

If you ever catch VH-1's 'Behind the Music' series -- the one with TLC where Lisa 'Left Eye' Lopes breaks down the math as to how they had sold millions of records in the beginning of their careers, but was only netting about 40 grand each, you will begin to understand how the music business works. She did a good job simplifying the math and was on point.

Today's artists are hip to the mechanics of the music biz (at least a good number of them -- some are still stupid knuckleheads). The rappers start independent companies where they sell their product directly. They make sure that the UPS bar code is on their CDs and when they start to register high regional sales, record companies move to buy their labels (at least in the days when rap was red hot). Artists (the smart ones anyway) also form production and publishing companies and trademark their image and companies and copyright their songs from the get go in order to control their property. And other artists get into their own clothing lines, or sell their names for perfumes and other ventures, or commerically endorse products. A few of the very smart artists invest their money in stocks, bonds, commodities and real estate in order to diversify their portfolio. But only a very few even understand or get the proper advice on how to go about this.
 
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AllTheLovelyFlowers said:
But I don't think that Sony/ATV is a publicly traded company. Sony Corp is though. So there are no dividends to shareholders involved here.
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I don't think Sony/atv is a public company either, this is why I clashed with Denisrs, that time when I said that MJ was not a shareholder, and therefore doesn't recieve dividends. The whole think is very complicated to explain. Sony has their finger in so many pies. It is sony that is the shareholders and it is they that recieved the divedens after MJ's 50% share of the profit is dealt with. Mj will pay the people who work for him and the rest goes into the trust fund.
 
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