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Does MJ own his own catalog, 100%?

*Bump*

Anyone with any renewed information on all of this? I was reading a little of this thread and it seems that Michael will be getting the master recordings this year and with his already ownership of the publishing rights, will exclusively own every part of his catalogue, is this correct?

I didn't quite understand the EU intervention. What is it trying to intervene on exactly? Is SonyBMG trying to buy something which would make them too powerful? Is this similar to the Heathrow airport debate that's going on now from this one company owning the UK's 7 most popular airports?

It seems that Michael is waiting to get his finances in order and everything else with loose ends before releasing this album and rightly so. I'd want a clean slate as well with everything that has gone on.

Also, I don't know if I read this correctly... his loan repayments for the Fortress loan... are these coming directly out of his payments from Sony/ATV each month? Wise decision... How long is this loan going to last? There must be a substantial amount of that $300M gone by now, it's been several years since the trial was over and so he could get things running again.

I know there's a lot of questions here, but love some to be explained.
 
I'm glad I peeked in this thread. So since it is May I take it Sony's option has expired? I know it wasn't likely they would exercise it but it still made me a tiny bit nervous for Michael.
 
eternitys_child said:
I'm glad I peeked in this thread. So since it is May I take it Sony's option has expired? I know it wasn't likely they would exercise it but it still made me a tiny bit nervous for Michael.
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Was this to option for Sony to buy the 25% sake of Michael's 50%?
 
mistermaxxx said:
He Owns his own songs. he has the outright copyright on his songs. now the Masters is where the real big money kicks in and He should be getting all of that real soon. the whole re-release re masters that MJ gave to Sony along with Invincible, and the box set and that Number ones Project were a trade off. now MJ is Smart as a Whip to maintain a Business association with Sony with the whole Sony/Atv association. that is constant money coming in. that deal alone means that sony has to pay him and not spread no BS about his money,etc..... put it like this, even if MJ had debts that were big, Sony would have to pay him a half a Billion dollars just to clear ties with him and he walks with his masters on top of that and in the future there is always gonna be demand for his catelog so MJ will be set for his lifetime through his Great,Great,Great Grandkids lifetime just as long as he handles his business and continues have the right lawyers,etc...

MJ is a Boardroom member at sony and that is big time money. there isn't another artist that is in the same bag as MJ over at Sony. that Man is Gangsta. Catelog, Publishing and Masters is where the real loot is at. that is a veteren Artist's Pension, Social Security, health care etc.... the same reality is that so many artists get older and only get peanuts to half a crack of a nut and have to work like slaves until they drop dead.
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Exactly right. No other artist has a business relationship with a recording company at this high of a level. And that's just for ATV/Sony. He owns the publishing rights on MiJac 100%.

People often mix up publishing ownership and master recording ownership. They are two different things. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think it breaks down to this:

Sony/ATV publishing: MJ's trust owns 50%. As far as I know, MJ is keeping his side of the bargain up with repaying his debt that's tied to ATV/Sony and Sony has not opted to take half of his 50%. The trust establish to hold his % ownership of ATV/Sony publishing, MJ owns 100%. I think the estimate value of this intellectural property should be around 4-5 BILLION dollars about now, especially since ATV/Sony seems to be very aggressive with seeking more acquisitions, especially in this ecomony. They have to be very close to being the largest publishing house in the world.

Sony/BMG Master Recordings: There still seems to be a question of whether MJ has taken ownership of recordings made under his Sony years. Whether he has them or is soon to receive them, it will be a very valuable intellectural property asset as he would get the royalties from the publishing AND recording rights of all of his songs.

MiJac publishing: This houses MJ's songs, perhaps with other acquisitions over the years and I believe he owns this 100%.
 
Rasta Pasta said:
you got it, Max.. I posted my comments before I saw this.. but you are so right..

Michael is the Mac.. in this business..........Diddy and JayZ.. wish they were in the position that Michael has.. that would be the next level..


I can just imagine if he did go ahead and purchase the Motown catalog too...I heard.. he didn't do it.. because alot of those artist ..he grew up with..and they didn't appreciate.. if Michael was the one calling the shots on their songs..

but.. the nice thing about the he's broke stories..everyone keeps underestimating him..
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Oh he wanted it -- that would be the Jobete Publishing Co. that houses all of the Motown hits, but Berry Gordy rightfully and very smartly kept that asset for himself when he sold Motown.

Heh. Barry Gordy ani't no fool, either! :jump:
 
KOPV said:
yes thank you Aveeno.. I have another thought though.. lol!

My wife is a financial consultant and deals with loans on a daily bases.. When you have a loan, If the loan (for a house) for example, can be reposest.. Meaning at the END OF THE DAY. when it comes down to it, they do have control.. Not as in, they chose what happens to it.. U can do what you want with it.. It's your HOUSE, it's your property.. But if the loans are not paid by specific dates.. They have the FULL right to reposest it.

The fact that BOA sold the loan to Fortress shows that there were payment issues (loan not being paid).. No business just sells a loan over for the heck of it.. They make MONEY off of loans.. They SELL once they are not being paid on time/correctly/ in full etc.. (Basically when too many issues comes up)

Banks have the RIGHT once something to reposest something BEFORE they sell over to another company, meaning they could have reposest 'Mijac' but did not..


Now I see it as.. If a BANK can TAKE something FROM you, they have CONTROL.. Even if you CURRENTLY OWN IT..
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Only if you default on the terms of your loan. Putting something up as collateral doesn't mean that the bank owns or controls the asset being used as such. It's just a guarantee to insure the debt incurred. (Unless you signed some crazy deal with terms you didn't understand...)

Sony was smart to step in because if MJ had defaulted to Fortress' gang of thugs, Sony would have to deal with another corporation, vs. an individual regarding how the ATV/Sony asset would be used. Let's say that Fortress was also in the real estate business and they sold these ridiculous sub prime loans that people are currently defaulting on all over the place and instead of Fortress selling off these real estate loans, they had them on their books. Then Fortress would have gone under and took their half of the ATV/Sony asset with them. Sony would then have their prime publishing asset tied up in bankruptcy court and NO ONE WOULD BE MAKING ANY MONEY OFF OF IT.

Better Sony come in and take control of the refinancing deal so that if anything happens, they get the rights of first refusal. I can't blame them for that....
 
elusive moonwalker said:
a star as always aveeno. ppl should take care about posting info that isnt correct regarding mj. especially when its something as confusing as trust and cats and what not.

kick question that has always confused me abit.sony have the option to buy 25% until next march but if they do they will have to pay mj over 1 billion$ for it. now is that option only there because if he defaults they get first pick or is it viable that they could decide to take the option even if there is no default? is that allowed under the contract? and if it is allowed why is it only allowed upto march 08? what if you default in april 08?
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The way the newspapers were writing on it at the time, they gave the impression that it was an automatic option, which didn't really make sense to me unless it was prefaced with MJ having to repay a certain amount of the loan by a certain time. I also think that the value of the asset far outweighs the price of the loan with interest (if that wasn't the case, I don't think refinacing would have been worth it), especially if you tack on an escalating appreciation factor. In short, I think it's 'cheaper to keep her', if you will, or in other words, cheaper to hold MJ in the asset than to buy him out. I hope that made some sense...
 
There was ne evidence that MJ ever defaulted on the Sony Loan. This was always speculated by Fatface. The loan was sold to Fortress. That has nothing to do with defaults. Loans get sold all time. More convenient for the busness to collect. I deal with a number of different banks for insurance, and mortgages and other stuff and they are always selling their franchise to others. My mortgage changed hands within my first year of owning it. Had nothing to do with default.
In fact there was no evidence that MJ fell behind with any payments at all.
 
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LMAO!

Man, who bumped this ISH up? :lol:

And why my old name STILL in there? :rofl:

MJ was NEVER gonna give up 25% of ATV, no way. I also doubt he's a "Sony recording artist" anymore as Aveeno put it, lol.

Mello gon' crazy with the quotes and co-signs, chill, baby boo. :p
 
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Datsymay said:
There was ne evidence that MJ ever defaulted on the Sony Loan. This was always speculated by Fatface. The loan was sold to Fortress. That has nothing to do with defaults. Loans get sold all time. More convenient for the busness to collect. I deal with a number of different banks for insurance, and mortgages and other stuff and they are always selling their franchise to others. My mortgage changed hands within my first year of owning it. Had nothing to do with default.
In fact there was no evidence that MJ fell behind with any payments at all.
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And I would agree with that, thus the reason the NHT was locked in the first place. I have to also think that MJ is at least halfway done with repaying the loan as well.

Now if only he can get rid of these pesky lawsuits...
 
troubleman84 said:
LMAO!

Man, who bumped this ISH up? :lol:

And why my old name STILL in there? :rofl:

MJ was NEVER gonna give up 25% of ATV, no way. I also doubt he's a " Sony recording artist" anymore as Aveeno put it, lol.

Mello gon' crazy with the quotes and co-signs, chill, baby boo. :p
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No. Someone recently asked a question about this. They brought this thread back up. I had no idea that the thread was this old until I read all of the posts. So I was just bringing the discussion current.

That's alright with you, isn't it? :cheeky:
 
mello1 said:
And I would agree with that, thus the reason the NHT was locked in the first place. I have to also think that MJ is at least halfway done with repaying the loan as well.

Now if only he can get rid of these pesky lawsuits...
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i wonder about most lawsuits that anyone claims, ever since the idea of 'emotional distress and pain and suffering' came along. that could be interpreted in any way, and even the president ended up saying that america is the land of frivolous lawsuits.
 
mello1 said:
No. Someone recently asked a question about this. They brought this thread back up. I had no idea that the thread was this old until I read all of the posts. So I was just bringing the discussion current.

That's alright with you, isn't it? :cheeky:
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Yeah it's all good. I ain't hating, I'm just saying, ya know? :wink: :D
 
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read half of this thread b4 realising it was old lol


Also, I don't know if I read this correctly... his loan repayments for the Fortress loan... are these coming directly out of his payments from Sony/ATV each month? Wise decision... How long is this loan going to last? There must be a substantial amount of that $300M gone by now, it's been several years since the trial was over and so he could get things running again.
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yeah thats correct. the loan was for around 5 years. they years all blend into one to me but i think this agreement was made either summer 07 or 06 so 4 more years at the most. but it could be paid off earlier if he gets hold of more money..im not sure what the intrest rate is on the loan maybe 6 % so the intrest alone is alot but if the deal is for it to be paid off over 5 years i guess u can work out to a point how much is getting paid off each year.
 
mjlivesimmortal said:
Was this to option for Sony to buy the 25% sake of Michael's 50%?
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That is what I am referring to, yes. Although most papers at the time were saying Sony had aquired the 25% stake outright or had a nonconditional option, a few of the respected business journels described it as a conditional option as Aveeno describes it. They didn't give the detail that Aveeno is giving us however so I am greatfull for Aveeno's 'investigative reporting'.
 
eternitys_child said:
That is what I am referring to, yes. Although most papers at the time were saying Sony had aquired the 25% stake outright or had a nonconditional option, a few of the respected business journels described it as a conditional option as Aveeno describes it. They didn't give the detail that Aveeno is giving us however so I am greatfull for Aveeno's 'investigative reporting'.
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It was revealed that both Sony and MJ had exactly the same option to buy, in fact they took it in turns to have an option to buy as part of the contractual agreement. The time that 'fatface' was shouting that MJ has to sell, was incedentally,Sony's option period to buy. This option ended in March, and it is now MJ's option to buy sony's 1/4%. The contract is even whicnh is how it should be.
 
elusive moonwalker said:
read half of this thread b4 realising it was old lol




yeah thats correct. the loan was for around 5 years. they years all blend into one to me but i think this agreement was made either summer 07 or 06 so 4 more years at the most. but it could be paid off earlier if he gets hold of more money..im not sure what the intrest rate is on the loan maybe 6 % so the intrest alone is alot but if the deal is for it to be paid off over 5 years i guess u can work out to a point how much is getting paid off each year.
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Was it actually a loan that was strucured to be paid off in installments by the end of 5 years? That would surprise me. It would be quite a chunk of change on top of the interest payments. It may only come up for refinancing at the end of 5 years.

$300,000,000/60= $5,000,000 /month or $60,000,000/yr on top of say at 5% (If he got a good rate) interest of $15,000,000/yr interest initially = $75,000,000. (Probably more like $68,000,000/yr for a 5 year payback)
 
eternitys_child said:
Was it actually a loan that was strucured to be paid off in installments by the end of 5 years? That would surprise me. It would be quite a chunk of change on top of the interest payments. It may only come up for refinancing at the end of 5 years.

$300,000,000/60= $5,000,000 /month or $60,000,000/yr on top of say at 5% (If he got a good rate) interest of $15,000,000/yr interest initially = $75,000,000. (Probably more like $68,000,000/yr for a 5 year payback)
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None of that make any sense. This is why I will always maintain that the loan was never an MJ loan, but a business loan on behalf of the firm that both Sony and MJ are responsible for. That will explain why Sony was at the negotation table with MJ and for no other reason. That would also be the reason why it is Sony/atv which has the responsibilty to repay the loan, and not MJ. If that were the case, then I could see why that amount of loan can be repaid, cause the company is making enough money to repay this debt.
 
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Datsymay said:
None of that make any sense. This is why I will always maintain that the loan was never an MJ loan, but a business loan on behalf of the firm that both Sony and MJ are responsible for. That will explain why Sony was at the negotation table with MJ and for no other reason. That would also be the reason why it is Sony/atv which has the responsibilty to repay the loan, and not MJ. If that were the case, then I could see why that amount of loan can be repaid, cause the company is making enough money to repay this debt.
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Actually the NHT is the entity repaying the debt with funds being generated by royalities earned by the assets in that trust...
 
mello1 said:
Actually the NHT is the entity repaying the debt with funds being generated by royalities earned by the assets in that trust...
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I have no doubt of that, but the money comes directly from Sony/atv and goes right into the trust. I truly believe that the money is a shared responsibilty between Sony and Mj made on behalf of the company.

It was revealed that sony had the same amount of debts against the company as MJ and around the same time a new catalogue was acquired. It makes absolute sense that the money was for the company and both sides have equal responsibity to see that it is paid back.

The company is in financially good shape and paid a large amount in cash for its latest aquisition and is still negotiating to buy more. This loan could be paid off in no time if the company so desired.
 
Datsymay said:
I have no doubt of that, but the money comes directly from Sony/atv and goes right into the trust. I truly believe that the money is a shared responsibilty between Sony and Mj made on behalf of the company.

It was revealed that sony had the same amount of debts against the company as MJ and around the same time a new catalogue was acquired. It makes absolute sense that the money was for the company and both sides have equal responsibity to see that it is paid back.

The company is in financially good shape and paid a large amount in cash for its latest aquisition and is still negotiating to buy more. This loan could be paid off in no time if the company so desired.
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Yes, the royalties are generated in part from Sony/ATV, which MJ still owns at 50% and those royalties earned goes to pay off the debt. And yes, the Sony/ATV likely incurs other debt, expenses and administrative fees that must be paid off with royalties earned as well. I would imagine that Sony/ATV takes those other expenses off the top and the resulting royalties assigned to the NHT goes to pay off the debt that MJ incurred.
 
well March 2008 has come and gone.. and MJ is still 50% owner of Sony/ATv..

and Sony also uses its earnings from Sony/ATV to pay off debts.. as companies and people in business do.. every day..
 
I think only the artist get royalties. They are paid before MJ and sony are paid any thing. The shareholders get dividends and what is left is divided up between MJ and sony as profit, after some is paid back into the company. MJ aslo get a salary for the work he does for the company. Even though MJ owns half the company, he still must be paid for any work done for the companmy. he is on the company board, because they do consult him for advice, and that alone ios a lot of money. he also consults with artiosts that he wants to encourage to sigh with the company. For this MJ is paid a company fee $8-10 mill. That was revealed in documents.
 
Datsymay said:
I think only the artist get royalties. They are paid before MJ and sony are paid any thing. The shareholders get dividends and what is left is divided up between MJ and sony as profit, after some is paid back into the company. MJ aslo get a salary for the work he does for the company. Even though MJ owns half the company, he still must be paid for any work done for the companmy. he is on the company board, because they do consult him for advice, and that alone ios a lot of money. he also consults with artiosts that he wants to encourage to sigh with the company. For this MJ is paid a company fee $8-10 mill. That was revealed in documents.
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I'm confused. I thought dividends were a result of holding shares. MJ holds shares in Sony too? I wouldn't put it past him...
 
Rasta Pasta said:
well March 2008 has come and gone.. and MJ is still 50% owner of Sony/ATv..

and Sony also uses its earnings from Sony/ATV to pay off debts.. as companies and people in business do.. every day..
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Indeed. MJ and sony are equal partners, which means that whatever MJ does, sony does the same and the contract are exactly the same. In fact MJ got a slightly better deal, remember, cause he made sony sign an agreement not to enter into competion with him, so now he is negotiating with sony BMG we don't even know what happened to that.
 
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What does NHT stand for? So from reading all of this I'm getting that Michael gets his profit from Sony/ATV every month or however often and this amount he gets is after what has been taken to pay off the loan?

How does it become Sony/ATV's responsibility to repay the loan, when it was Michael that took it out? Surely it can't be because the catalogue is being used as collateral. Is it something to do with the refinancing deal with Sony? This is all very confusing.

Who owns the loan now? If it's being refinanced so many times and hearing that Sony have helped him refinance it, wait am I getting it...? Sony is repaying its own loan?
 
Was it actually a loan that was strucured to be paid off in installments by the end of 5 years? That would surprise me. It would be quite a chunk of change on top of the interest payments. It may only come up for refinancing at the end of 5 years.
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yes thats right.from what i remember aveeno saying. yeah its alot to pay off when u cut it down like that but from what she said thats how it seems to be. she said on one thread that mj paid off around $45 mill in one payment a while back.

Yes, the royalties are generated in part from Sony/ATV, which MJ still owns at 50% and those royalties earned goes to pay off the debt. And yes, the Sony/ATV likely incurs other debt, expenses and administrative fees that must be paid off with royalties earned as well. I would imagine that Sony/ATV takes those other expenses off the top and the resulting royalties assigned to the NHT goes to pay off the debt that MJ incurred.
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yeah basically the 50% mj makes off sonyatv goes into NHT and from there goes straight to paying off his personal debts. from what was said whenthe sony/atv deal was done sony alone pays all the administration and what not fees. so non of that money comes from mj and his 50%. mj gets a straight 50 while sony have to use some of theirs to pay for administration etc. obviously its abit different and not as simplistic because sony isnt one person like mj its a whole company but its a rough idea.
 
mjlivesimmortal said:
What does NHT stand for? So from reading all of this I'm getting that Michael gets his profit from Sony/ATV every month or however often and this amount he gets is after what has been taken to pay off the loan?

How does it become Sony/ATV's responsibility to repay the loan, when it was Michael that took it out? Surely it can't be because the catalogue is being used as collateral. Is it something to do with the refinancing deal with Sony? This is all very confusing.

Who owns the loan now? If it's being refinanced so many times and hearing that Sony have helped him refinance it, wait am I getting it...? Sony is repaying its own loan?
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NHT is the New Horizon Trust that MJ controls and has as its assets, his share of the ATV/Sony publishing empire, as well as MiJac publishing. The trust is locked, per the agreement he worked out with Sony and company holding his debt. Technically, ATV/Sony is not responsible for the debt. The income generated by the catalog is used to pay the debt.
 
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