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How many unreleased songs are left ?

SmoothCriminal1995

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I was curious to know if anyone has any idea how many songs are left from each album session.

With BAD I remember Quincy saying that MJ wanted to make it a triple album with 33 songs, I know we have 9 unreleased songs from the BAD era and Trouble. But I doubt MJ considered the likes of Free, Don't Be Messin' Round ready for release, and someone (John Barnes I think) on the BAD 25 doc said about 60 songs ?

MJ done around 100 songs for Dangerous, not including the Decade outtakes, he did at least 20 tracks with Bryan Loren, and loads of tracks with LA Reid, most of the BOTD album tracks were from the Dangerous sessions ,that doesn't include his demos.

Then with Invincible, I know he wrote a lot of material for it again around 100 I've heard, I know he was close to releasing an album in 1999, The World Is No Church.

I don't know as much about the, Off The Wall, Thriller, HIStory , 04-09 sessions, apart from HIStory didn't produce as much material.

Anyone have any ideas, I believe around 100 potential songs are left, P.S sorry it's long :rofl:
 
SmoothCriminal1995 said:
I was curious to know if anyone has any idea how many songs are left from each album session.

With BAD I remember Quincy saying that MJ wanted to make it a triple album with 33 songs, I know we have 9 unreleased songs from the BAD era and Trouble. But I doubt MJ considered the likes of Free, Don't Be Messin' Round ready for release, and someone (John Barnes I think) on the BAD 25 doc said about 60 songs ?

MJ done around 100 songs for Dangerous, not including the Decade outtakes, he did at least 20 tracks with Bryan Loren, and loads of tracks with LA Reid, most of the BOTD album tracks were from the Dangerous sessions ,that doesn't include his demos.

Then with Invincible, I know he wrote a lot of material for it again around 100 I've heard, I know he was close to releasing an album in 1999, The World Is No Church.

I don't know as much about the, Off The Wall, Thriller, HIStory , 04-09 sessions, apart from HIStory didn't produce as much material.

Anyone have any ideas, I believe around 100 potential songs are left, P.S sorry it's long :rofl:
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Michael sent around 60 demo's to Bruce Swedien, he chuckled and said ''these are in really good shape'' for dangerous there are around 60 also, for HIStory probably 3 or 4, for invincible around 40 & 2003-2009 i'd say around 28... for thriller around 40 & off the wall about 13 most likely, alwaysthere probably has slightly more accurate numbers though
 
Thanks Zakk, I really hope they're all in great shape, because that's a lot of material if that's right
 
SmoothCriminal1995 said:
Thanks Zakk, I really hope they're all in great shape, because that's a lot of material if that's right
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Richard Lecocq said that Michael worked on many song's during the invincible sessions but the estate needs to work out a license with all the producers to acquire the tracks.. there are supposedly 12 complete enough tracks from the red one sessions alone.. 4 from the will.i.am sessions, i'd say 6 from neff-u sessions, around 6 from brad buxer sessions also and possibly some home demo's.. the only people who have confirmed information are the execs at the estate though of course
 
The only true answer is - we don't know..

Michael worked on a lot of music, just from what we know of there are a large collection of unreleased material.. We don't know how finished they are, the quality of sound.. or if some songs are variations of each other (virtually same song but done differently)..

It's safe to say that there is enough work done for us to get music for years to come
 
KOPV said:
The only true answer is - we don't know..

Michael worked on a lot of music, just from what we know of there are a large collection of unreleased material.. We don't know how finished they are, the quality of sound.. or if some songs are variations of each other (virtually same song but done differently)..

It's safe to say that there is enough work done for us to get music for years to come
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This is a comforting post. Don't forget about the classical flava he wanted to try too, everyone ^^
 
Might as well throw in my input :p My knowledge has changed about these songs over time.

Before I begin though, I feel compelled to encourage you all to take my word with a grain of salt. I'm 100% certain with what I'm saying in regards to Michael's unreleased music, but I understand if trusting a random guy on an MJ forum is shady, lol. Additionally, just because I say that there were a certain amount of songs worked on at one time does not mean that they are all complete enough for release.

OFF THE WALL: There are a number of demo tapes and cassette tapes from these sessions that exist, but my hopes aren't high for them. There are two reasons as to why a proposed Off the Wall 30 never happened: (a) there wasn't enough new material to be issued as bonus cuts; or (b) the producers of this material wouldn't allow their release. The latter one is simply a rumor as of right now, but it's still worrysome.

THRILLER: To be quite honest, I have no idea.

BAD: By the time Bad was released in August 1987, Michael and his team worked on roughly sixty demos, all left in varying states of completion. Not sure how many are complete enough for release, but there are many songs left over apparently that are as complete as Price of Fame and I'm So Blue, which is a good sign. (Fun fact: Don't Be Messin' Around was finished in 1990 with Brad Buxer; a secondary mix was produced in 1994. There's a six or seven second extract that has been around for a few years on YouTube.)

DANGEROUS: Don't forget, Dangerous was the first time Michael spearheaded the direction of his music. So he understandably went a bit wild. He worked on around one hundred songs by late 1991; again, all are in varying states of completion. There are at the very least seven songs left over from the Bryan Loren sessions. Pair that with collaborations with L.A. Reid, Babyface, Brad Buxer, Teddy Riley, Bill Bottrell, Buz Kohan, and the dozens of songs Michael wrote/produced entirely on his own. Dangerous is probably his most profitable era in terms of available music, though I can't say that I know the exact number of songs available. Definitely over 25 though.

HISTORY: At the very most, three or four songs. Michael worked on dozens of grooves and ideas during these sessions but didn't record much outside of the fourteen new songs on the album, Much Too Soon and On the Line. Everything else is either majorly incomplete or doesn't have ample vocals to appear on a proper studio album.

INVINCIBLE: Richard LeCocq already spoke on this one. I don't know the exact number of songs, but it trails Dangerous as the most profitable era. (Given that Michael worked with more producers than ever before over the four years of recording, this could overtake Dangerous for the coveted title, though I need to research this further.) At the very least, there are about thirty songs/demos to be revisited in the future.

THIS IS IT: Don't get your hopes up. While there are a good number of existing songs from these sessions, there are several reasons why they won't be released. In the case of the will.i.am tracks, he simply won't hand over the instrumentals. There are several other songs that the Estate simply doesn't have for one reason or another (some songs they don't know about, while some people just won't give them up). This is why the Estate was so crazy when they got the twelve Cascio tracks, which were all purportedly recorded in 2007. I wouldn't count on hearing more than two post-2003 tracks on the next album.
 
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And I remember someone here saying that Michael wasn't prolific enough because he didn't derive joy from making music, he only made it to sell album. Wow....

Thank you for the insight AlwaysThere :) Oh, btw didn't Teddy work on Messin Round aswell?
 
Thanks for shedding some light on it for us, its much appreciated, I would love it if there are loads and loads of songs, left over that are great.
Sorry to keep asking questions, put if the Estate have MJ's vocals from the Will.I.Am sessions, why don't they release them with different instrumentations, even though Will recorded them surely the Estate can retain ownership over Michael's vocals ?
 
Would MJ neverland demos be just beatboxes if they are worked on by himself since he wasnt technical in the studio?
 
AlwaysThere said:
Might as well throw in my input :p My knowledge has changed about these songs over time.

Before I begin though, I feel compelled to encourage you all to take my word with a grain of salt. I'm 100% certain with what I'm saying in regards to Michael's unreleased music, but I understand if trusting a random guy on an MJ forum is shady, lol. Additionally, just because I say that there were a certain amount of songs worked on at one time does not mean that they are all complete enough for release.

OFF THE WALL: There are a number of demo tapes and cassette tapes from these sessions that exist, but my hopes aren't high for them. There are two reasons as to why a proposed Off the Wall 30 never happened: (a) there wasn't enough new material to be issued as bonus cuts; or (b) the producers of this material wouldn't allow their release. The latter one is simply a rumor as of right now, but it's still worrysome.

THRILLER: To be quite honest, I have no idea.

BAD: By the time Bad was released in August 1987, Michael and his team worked on roughly sixty demos, all left in varying states of completion. Not sure how many are complete enough for release, but there are many songs left over apparently that are as complete as Price of Fame and I'm So Blue, which is a good sign. (Fun fact: Don't Be Messin' Around was finished in 1990 with Brad Buxer; a secondary mix was produced in 1994. There's a six or seven second extract that has been around for a few years on YouTube.)

DANGEROUS: Don't forget, Dangerous was the first time Michael spearheaded the direction of his music. So he understandably went a bit wild. He worked on around one hundred songs by late 1991; again, all are in varying states of completion. There are at the very least seven songs left over from the Bryan Loren sessions. Pair that with collaborations with L.A. Reid, Babyface, Brad Buxer, Teddy Riley, Bill Bottrell, Buz Kohan, and the dozens of songs Michael wrote/produced entirely on his own. Dangerous is probably his most profitable era in terms of available music, though I can't say that I know the exact number of songs available. Definitely over 25 though.

HISTORY: At the very most, three or four songs. Michael worked on dozens of grooves and ideas during these sessions but didn't record much outside of the fourteen new songs on the album, Much Too Soon and On the Line. Everything else is either majorly incomplete or doesn't have ample vocals to appear on a proper studio album.

INVINCIBLE: Richard LeCocq already spoke on this one. I don't know the exact number of songs, but it trails Dangerous as the most profitable era. (Given that Michael worked with more producers than ever before over the four years of recording, this could overtake Dangerous for the coveted title, though I need to research this further.) At the very least, there are about thirty songs/demos to be revisited in the future.

THIS IS IT: Don't get your hopes up. While there are a good number of existing songs from these sessions, there are several reasons why they won't be released. In the case of the will.i.am tracks, he simply won't hand over the instrumentals. There are several other songs that the Estate simply doesn't have for one reason or another (some songs they don't know about, while some people just won't give them up). This is why the Estate was so crazy when they got the twelve Cascio tracks, which were all purportedly recorded in 2007. I wouldn't count on hearing more than two post-2003 tracks on the next album.
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i would hope that sometime in the future, the estate acquire all the tracks recorded from 2003-2009.. that would easily extend the future of releasing albums..
 
AlwaysThere said:
BAD: By the time Bad was released in August 1987, Michael and his team worked on roughly sixty demos, all left in varying states of completion. Not sure how many are complete enough for release, but there are many songs left over apparently that are as complete as Price of Fame and I'm So Blue, which is a good sign. (Fun fact: Don't Be Messin' Around was finished in 1990 with Brad Buxer; a secondary mix was produced in 1994. There's a six or seven second extract that has been around for a few years on YouTube.)
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According to Joe Vogel, the Estate was considering over 20 tracks for Bad25. That means there should be at least about 15 songs left for future releases.

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertai...cksons-infectious-newly-released-song/258115/
 
That's why I said "at least" ;) Those tracks are confirmed to exist and are most likely in shape to be released without much additional finishing (or else they would not have been considered for the demo-disc).
I too believe Quincy and Swedien and the other ones claiming MJ wrote many many songs for Bad.
 
Zakk said:
just because they were only considering 20 doesn't mean that's all that is left, i believe what Bruce Swedien said about Michael sending him 60 demo's and i shall take his word as fact.
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Out of those 60, how many do you believe have complete vocals, or complete music for that matter.
 
Billyjeanplxiv said:
Out of those 60, how many do you believe have complete vocals, or complete music for that matter.
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I certainly believe many of those "60" songs if not all of them is in the type of state as I'm so blue, Free, Al Capone etc etc. He worked on those demos for like 3-4 years.
 
since we're discussing unreleased songs, can i ask if anyone knows why Michael decided to release "beautiful girl"? It's a beautiful song, but very unfinished.....
 
Themidwestcowboy said:
I certainly believe many of those "60" songs if not all of them is in the type of state as I'm so blue, Free, Al Capone etc etc. He worked on those demos for like 3-4 years.
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Michael WROTE 60 songs.
Michael RECORDING 60 songs is a completely different story.
 
Billyjeanplxiv said:
Michael WROTE 60 songs.
Michael RECORDING 60 songs is a completely different story.
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We have already ascertain that Michael did send around 60 Demos to Bruce Swedien and the " A Team" (according to bruce) and you yourself commented and asked a question about how finished the songs were in terms of, vocals, instrumentation etc etc. So the Michael wrote 60 songs issue that you raised out of the blue is invalid. Although 60 may not be the exact number i believe the numbers are very high. You also have to take tracks created right after thriller (Victory Era)into consideration. man that's like five years. I'm sure he had plenty of time to record and get many songs to the type of completion like Price Of Fame.
 
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Dilan said:
Would MJ neverland demos be just beatboxes if they are worked on by himself since he wasnt technical in the studio?
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Not necessarily. By "worked on himself" I mean that he didn't employ any of his major producers (Bill Bottrell, Quincy, Teddy Riley). Quite often he would have Matt Forger (engineer) and Brad Buxer (musician and editor) in the studio to help him with things he didn't know how to do.

But Michael knew what he was doing in the studio for the most part, particularly in his final 10-15 years. He knew a lot more than he ever let people know.

Themidwestcowboy said:
I certainly believe many of those "60" songs if not all of them is in the type of state as I'm so blue, Free, Al Capone etc etc. He worked on those demos for like 3-4 years.
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But let's not forget that Michael was the type of person that abandoned songs as quickly as he started them. A great example is Much Too Soon. He pulled that song out of the vaults (it was originally made in 1981), recorded it over the course of one day in early 1994, had it mixed within a week, and never touched it again.

Not only that, but Michael was notorious for taking his sweet time with his music. Take, for instance, Hollywood Tonight. He first recorded that song in 1999, and pretty much dropped it later that year when Rodney Jerkins joined his A-Team. Over the next nine years, Michael made several different mixes of that song (the last being from October 2008), but it was still only about sixty percent complete vocally.

Additionally, this was at a point where Quincy was the front runner of the operation. Michael spent quite a bit of time with him from 1986 to 1987 working on tracks that would make the final album, so there wasn't much time available to work on other music.

Pimboli said:
since we're discussing unreleased songs, can i ask if anyone knows why Michael decided to release "beautiful girl"? It's a beautiful song, but very unfinished.....
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Not totally sure to be quite honest.

To my knowledge, Michael made the agreement to deliver a box set featuring a few new songs before he could be excused from his Sony contract, so he reached in the vault and gave them whatever he pulled out. I know he regretted it later in his life when he went back to work on some of the songs that were released (Beautiful Girl, Scared of the Moon, The Way You Love Me, Cheater).
 
AlwaysThere said:
But let's not forget that Michael was the type of person that abandoned songs as quickly as he started them. A great example is Much Too Soon. He pulled that song out of the vaults (it was originally made in 1981), recorded it over the course of one day in early 1994, had it mixed within a week, and never touched it again.

Not only that, but Michael was notorious for taking his sweet time with his music. Take, for instance, Hollywood Tonight. He first recorded that song in 1999, and pretty much dropped it later that year when Rodney Jerkins joined his A-Team. Over the next nine years, Michael made several different mixes of that song (the last being from October 2008), but it was still only about sixty percent complete vocally.

Additionally, this was at a point where Quincy was the front runner of the operation. Michael spent quite a bit of time with him from 1986 to 1987 working on tracks that would make the final album, so there wasn't much time available to work on other music.
.
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This is actually the point I am trying to make by referring to I'm So Blue, Free and the other songs. Even though he was pretty fast to abandon his tracks some of them may still be what we consider near complete songs but what Michael would consider demos.

Also we have to remember that there was a huge gap between Thriller and Bad. 83,84,85,86. So that's still 3 to 4 years of him working independently in his Encino studio. He had no other obligations except for the victory tour. Songs like Peter pan, pyramid girl, Buffalo bill, Dirty Diana were created back then probably amongst many others.
 
Tammy86 said:
Here is a list of songs that have not been released. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unreleased_Michael_Jackson_songs. Some you may have heard already and some you may not. Some of these songs are pretty interesting!!:D
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Just to avoid confusion, NEVER listen to the Wikipedia list, lol. I would say at least a third of the inclusions on there are false and inserted by trolls.

For example, there are several songs that are listed as having been recorded during the rehearsals for This Is It, when this is not true at all. (i.e., 11pm is from as early as 1989). Additionally, many songs are attributed to the entirely wrong era or time period (i.e., You Are a Liar, which was written between 1987 and 1989 but is contributed to the Invincible sessions).
 
Probably a lot, he also did a lot of covers which will probably be released by Sony in next few years. Also, didn't Queen actually wanted to release few of his songs with Freddie Mercury this year?
 
AlwaysThere said:
Just to avoid confusion, NEVER listen to the Wikipedia list, lol. I would say at least a third of the inclusions on there are false and inserted by trolls.

For example, there are several songs that are listed as having been recorded during the rehearsals for This Is It, when this is not true at all. (i.e., 11pm is from as early as 1989). Additionally, many songs are attributed to the entirely wrong era or time period (i.e., You Are a Liar, which was written between 1987 and 1989 but is contributed to the Invincible sessions).
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How do you know the years of those songs? I also thought that 11pm is 2008/2009 track.
 
OnirMJ said:
How do you know the years of those songs? I also thought that 11pm is 2008/2009 track.
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As far as 11pm goes, the year was actually included in Chris Cadman's new book Maestro. He has some resources that very few fans can get, so I would say he's pretty darn accurate.

You Are a Liar was noted in Michael's 1993 court case, which means that it has to have been recorded in the years before. It was contributed to the Bad sessions by a close resource that has helped me with my upcoming project on unreleased material.

As I've said, you can take my word with a grain of salt given that I'm a random fan that many of you don't know, but I'm confident in my comments :)
 
AlwaysThere said:
As far as 11pm goes, the year was actually included in Chris Cadman's new book Maestro. He has some resources that very few fans can get, so I would say he's pretty darn accurate.

You Are a Liar was noted in Michael's 1993 court case, which means that it has to have been recorded in the years before. It was contributed to the Bad sessions by a close resource that has helped me with my upcoming project on unreleased material.

As I've said, you can take my word with a grain of salt given that I'm a random fan that many of you don't know, but I'm confident in my comments :)
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Thanks! Yeah, I knew about You Are a Liar (I think it is from Dangerous sessions though). But I always thought 11 pm is from 2008/2009. I'll check out "Maestro", I already have For The Record book.
 
AlwaysThere said:
It was contributed to the Bad sessions by a close resource that has helped me with my upcoming project on unreleased material.
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Any news about your project? I remember you posting a couple of weeks ago that you were working on a pdf-file with information you were able to collect about the unreleased stuff. I'm intrigued and patiently waiting :)
 
thiron said:
Any news about your project? I remember you posting a couple of weeks ago that you were working on a pdf-file with information you were able to collect about the unreleased stuff. I'm intrigued and patiently waiting :)
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Thanks for the interest! :) It's coming along I guess, lol. I'm waiting for a few people to write me back for certain things, but for the most part it's going well! Not sure on a release date yet.
 
AlwaysThere said:
Just to avoid confusion, NEVER listen to the Wikipedia list, lol. I would say at least a third of the inclusions on there are false and inserted by trolls.

For example, there are several songs that are listed as having been recorded during the rehearsals for This Is It, when this is not true at all. (i.e., 11pm is from as early as 1989). Additionally, many songs are attributed to the entirely wrong era or time period (i.e., You Are a Liar, which was written between 1987 and 1989 but is contributed to the Invincible sessions).
Click to expand...

I had assumed that wikipedia was truthful. these songs seemed to be rare and never heard of. I do know that there are songs that are rare, but they may never be released.
 
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