I Am a Fan, But... (What Makes You Heretic Among Other Fans?)

StageGlitter

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I think Moonwalker was a pretty bland, non-fulfilling autobiography. I bet you my bottom dollar most of it wasn't written by Michael. I did read the book some years ago, but I remember more from the Smallcombe biography Making Michael than from Moonwalk.

On Goodreads.com, one user had this to say:

Jackson was a consummate musician and entertainer: of that there is no doubt. He created some of the finest pop music of the late twentieth century. However, his skill lay in music; he was not a writer, and it really shows here. Despite the fact that the original material was worked on by a professional writer and two editors (one of whom was Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis, no less!), it really disappoints. The language is overly simplistic, as if it were the musings of a twelve-year-old boy, not the life of a thirty-year-old adult man (his age when it was completed).

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1062902.Moonwalk?from_search=true

I agree. It also doesn't make sense for him to have written it (in entirety) since he was wrapping up the Bad Tour and was probably really tired.
 

NatureCriminal7896

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I don't like 90's Michael. but i do like a few songs during the dangerous and HIStory eras. he seem sad and depressed during these eras. and we all know why. one thing i can say, he still manage to entertain us during these bad (no-pun indeed lol.) times.
 

DifferentKindOfLady

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it's the other way around. a lot of fans don't care about or like J5 era and choose to ignore it. and some don't even want to acknowledge it, and they just completely block it out, when talking about his career/life/music/albums/whatever

I think to really understand Michael you go to listen j5 and the Jacksons. Its where it all begun.
 

analogue

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I wish some fans would stop labeling people who has something negative to say towards Michael as ''racist'' - Yes Michael has dealt with a great deal of racism in his time, I'm not denying that. It's great that fans defend Michael but just screaming the word ''Racist!'' isn't a good defense.
 

zinniabooklover

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Well, I'm new to the board but may as well jump right in!

I don't identify as a fan so maybe that's my first heresy. I love Michael but the word (or concept) of 'fan' just does not resonate with me. Never did, even when I was a kid or a teenager.

What else? Can't stand She's Out Of My Life. Horrible song, boring vocal performance.

Don't like children's choirs. Doesn't quite ruin The Lost Children, fortunately, but the song would be better without it. Don't like the little girl's voice on Heal the World. Just too mawkish, too Disney. I understand why it's there but I can't stand it. I would listen to the song way, way more often than I do if that had not been included.

Duets. None of them really work for me. It's The Falling In Love is the best of the bunch but, really, I think they're all a waste of time. I'm not keen on duets generally, tbh, so there's that.

I love the Smooth Criminal video but it has to be the 4 minute version. Can't stand the long version. I get what Michael and the director were doing there. Totally get it. Just don't like the end result. For me, the 4 minute version is the most exquisite piece of work. Just off the chart exquisite. And, oh, the editing ... I have no words. Best music video ever, in my universe.

Don't like the video for TWYMMF. Just no.

I don't like the staging for Heal the World, Earth Song or Will You Be There? Michael was an artistic genius, a consummate performer and his stagecraft was awesome. But he did have some ideas that just make me wince. With these songs, of course I don't know how much the ideas were Michael's, or the choreographer, or both of them collaborating. I have to assume it's a collaborative effort we're seeing with these three songs. But I don't like it, don't like any of it. It's all too much, too mawkish (again) and just obscures 3 beautiful songs. None of these songs need any of this OTT stuff. It's like the angel wings idea for the YANA video. Just horrible. So glad that idea got knocked back. I love it that Michael had big ideas, a theatrical approach to his work, pushed the boundaries. But some of the ideas just don't work for me.

Hm, I think that's enough to be going on with! I feel the need to go and listen to Keep The Faith.
 

AChanceToDance

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-Billie Jean is overrated and I can't understand how it's his most famous song.


-Off The Wall isn't good for the most part, the only songs that saves the album are Get On The Floor, Burn This Disco Out and Rock With you.


-T.G.I.M and P.Y.T remixes from Thriller 25 are better than their original versions.


-Invincible is on my top 3 best MJ albums.


-Throwing Your Life Away and Heartbreaker are his best songs.
 

zinniabooklover

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-Billie Jean is overrated and I can't understand how it's his most famous song.


-Off The Wall isn't good for the most part, the only songs that saves the album are Get On The Floor, Burn This Disco Out and Rock With you.


-T.G.I.M and P.Y.T remixes from Thriller 25 are better than their original versions.


-Invincible is on my top 3 best MJ albums.


-Throwing Your Life Away and Heartbreaker are his best songs.
I love Invincible. Love it.
 

mjprince1976

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Some that have made me less than ideal fan #1

1. Thinking that BAD is the greatest album he ever made (Techincally Dangerous has better songs) but BAD is the most enjoyable and holds the fondest memories for me.
2. Lets rub it in by saying my favourite song is not Smooth Criminal (It comes second) but The Way you make me feel, as I like perfectly crafted and funky pop songs and that is a perfectly crafted and funky pop song.
3. He just released too many singles off Thriller, Bad, Dangerous - yes they were mostly brilliant, but surely the hardcore fans will have the album after the 5th single. Bad I think had 8 singles off it (Here in NZ at least) and Dangerous had 9 singles. Surely 4 is enough and maybe 5.
4. And they came out too fast, Beat it came too quick after Billie Jean (I would have waited another month, so people could digest these songs more and WBSS came quick after beat it). IJCSTLY, Bad and TWYMMF came out with 10 weeks of each other.
5. The girl is mine, IJCSTLY and Black or White were poor first single choices (DSTTYGE was a GENIUS first single). I would have started my albums with a funky, dancy or catchy first cut, not a ballad (Although all of those songs were aved by great singing). Black or White was just a bit overblown. Under all that production is a decent song. It's more overproduced than a Prince cut of the era.
6. I really love the songs Butterflies and Cry (And I know many of you are hatin on those two).
 

zinniabooklover

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Some that have made me less than ideal fan #1

1. Thinking that BAD is the greatest album he ever made (Techincally Dangerous has better songs) but BAD is the most enjoyable and holds the fondest memories for me.
2. Lets rub it in by saying my favourite song is not Smooth Criminal (It comes second) but The Way you make me feel, as I like perfectly crafted and funky pop songs and that is a perfectly crafted and funky pop song.
3. He just released too many singles off Thriller, Bad, Dangerous - yes they were mostly brilliant, but surely the hardcore fans will have the album after the 5th single. Bad I think had 8 singles off it (Here in NZ at least) and Dangerous had 9 singles. Surely 4 is enough and maybe 5.
4. And they came out too fast, Beat it came too quick after Billie Jean (I would have waited another month, so people could digest these songs more and WBSS came quick after beat it). IJCSTLY, Bad and TWYMMF came out with 10 weeks of each other.
5. The girl is mine, IJCSTLY and Black or White were poor first single choices (DSTTYGE was a GENIUS first single). I would have started my albums with a funky, dancy or catchy first cut, not a ballad (Although all of those songs were aved by great singing). Black or White was just a bit overblown. Under all that production is a decent song. It's more overproduced than a Prince cut of the era.
6. I really love the songs Butterflies and Cry (And I know many of you are hatin on those two).
Yes to No. 5. BOW - Michael's performance is fine, the lyrics are great, the feel of the song is good and parts of the video are brilliant. But I definitely think the song is overproduced. I only ever listen to it when I'm watching the video because as a stand-alone song it doesn't quite work the way Michael's songs usually do. I don't think the song is ruined by the production but sometimes less is more.

No.6 - I love Butterflies and Cry. I love the whole album.
 

Friend&Flower

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Please ban :p
I definitely agree with Invincible being better, but short hair, that is false! 😆
1. I love Girlfriend. It's the best song on OTW.
2. Smooth Criminal is the weakest track on Bad.
3. I was Janet's fan two years earlier than Michael's.
4. Invincible > OTW
5. Michael looked much better with short hair.
 

mj_frenzy

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Some that have made me less than ideal fan #1

1. Thinking that BAD is the greatest album he ever made (Techincally Dangerous has better songs) but BAD is the most enjoyable and holds the fondest memories for me.
2. Lets rub it in by saying my favourite song is not Smooth Criminal (It comes second) but The Way you make me feel, as I like perfectly crafted and funky pop songs and that is a perfectly crafted and funky pop song.
3. He just released too many singles off Thriller, Bad, Dangerous - yes they were mostly brilliant, but surely the hardcore fans will have the album after the 5th single. Bad I think had 8 singles off it (Here in NZ at least) and Dangerous had 9 singles. Surely 4 is enough and maybe 5.
4. And they came out too fast, Beat it came too quick after Billie Jean (I would have waited another month, so people could digest these songs more and WBSS came quick after beat it). IJCSTLY, Bad and TWYMMF came out with 10 weeks of each other.
5. The girl is mine, IJCSTLY and Black or White were poor first single choices (DSTTYGE was a GENIUS first single). I would have started my albums with a funky, dancy or catchy first cut, not a ballad (Although all of those songs were aved by great singing). Black or White was just a bit overblown. Under all that production is a decent song. It's more overproduced than a Prince cut of the era.
6. I really love the songs Butterflies and Cry (And I know many of you are hatin on those two).
They came out too fast because there were reasons for doing that.

For example, they released 'Beat It' right after 'Billie Jean' because they wanted to broaden the album's audience (i.e., via 'Beat It' to attract also fans of rock music).

About 'The Girl Is Mine' as the first single, it has been noted that they wanted to capitalize on an already very famous white artist named Paul McCartney.

So this song as the first single helped the 'Thriller' album in general to easily gain presence/momentum on the radio and charts and thus to increase also the album's sales.

Also, the release of 'Black Or White' as the first single set the tone for the upcoming 'Dangerous' album because, aside from the single's big chart and commercial success, it was a song that represented (thematically and musically) the entire 'Dangerous' album.
 

Themidwestcowboy

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Bad is a great album BUT the exlusions of Rod Temperton penned tracks is what holds this album back from being better than Thriller.
 

zinniabooklover

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Can't tell if this was serious! But seriously! I can't imagine what one can say against them :unsure: ! Flatter his body too much? Too good to be true 😂 Make him look so sexy that you have to look away! :cool:
No, honestly, I really don't like them. That's why I had to confess over here on the heresy thread. Safe space!

In my defence, I would say I can't think of another garment or costume or anything that I ever saw Michael wear that I didn't like. Or, at least, can't bring any to mind just now. I adore his style, absolutely ADORE his style. He wears his clothes so well. I mean, Michael's beautiful long legs in skinny jeans, omigosh!

The gold pants, to me, look cheap and badly cut (SO not like Michael) and just, I dunno, just not him. But I know I'm in a minority on this.

<runs away very fast>
 

Hiker

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No, honestly, I really don't like them. That's why I had to confess over here on the heresy thread. Safe space!

In my defence, I would say I can't think of another garment or costume or anything that I ever saw Michael wear that I didn't like. Or, at least, can't bring any to mind just now. I adore his style, absolutely ADORE his style. He wears his clothes so well. I mean, Michael's beautiful long legs in skinny jeans, omigosh!

The gold pants, to me, look cheap and badly cut (SO not like Michael) and just, I dunno, just not him. But I know I'm in a minority on this.

<runs away very fast>
Speaking of minority, I like the Dangerous costume better! Yes, I said it (though I think I have said it before somewhere here). I will leave the details for the 18+thread, but I think the full gold costume is too busy, too shiny, I cannot focus o_O. Compared to that the Dangerous outfit it much neater and flattering. Though just the gold pants are Michael's gift to us.
 

zinniabooklover

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Speaking of minority, I like the Dangerous costume better! Yes, I said it (though I think I have said it before somewhere here). I will leave the details for the 18+thread, but I think the full gold costume is too busy, too shiny, I cannot focus o_O. Compared to that the Dangerous outfit it much neater and flattering. Though just the gold pants are Michael's gift to us.
Dangerous costume is a work of art (bit like Michael).

As for the gold pants, don't like 'em but there are some cool HTW photos, ngl.
 

Friend&Flower

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They do say confession is good for the soul. And I do feel better for getting this off my chest. Seriously! I know I'm not the only one who doesn't like the gold pants but I don't think there's many of us.
I do agree they could have been cut better or better fabric! Sometimes they are too costume-y!
 

Hiker

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Dangerous costume is a work of art (bit like Michael).
oh, I love you for saying that! I have been feeling like such an outcast :( . It IS a work of art and the way Michael wears it, no one else can ever pull it off. (I hope you are not pulling my leg!)
 

zinniabooklover

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oh, I love you for saying that! I have been feeling like such an outcast :( . It IS a work of art and the way Michael wears it, no one else can ever pull it off. (I hope you are not pulling my leg!)
Are YOU serious? Not being rude but, omg, no. No, no, no. Michael is such a work of art I normally don't even mention it as I don't have the vocabulary and feel SO inadequate in the face of his beauty, talent, general awesomeness, style (!) and ... just all of it. Like right now, just typing this I feel slightly faint, heart rate is up, feel a bit distracted and just ... I don't even know.

I don't fancy Michael, as in I don't have romantic or sexy fantasies about him but that doesn't mean I'm immune to his beauty, sexiness (as a dancer), cuteness and just ... all of it. See? I can't even write this comment, my brain is falling out of my ears. I don't have any interest in the Manhood thread but, god, no, Michael is totally a work of art.

I'm not joking, I'm gonna sign off. My heart rate is still pumping. And all we're doing is talking about the guy. Although I did just bump some photos onto the fave pics thread. You've prob seen 'em already but, any excuse to engage with gorgeous photos of Michael.

Heart rate is seriously up. I'm gone.
 

zinniabooklover

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I do agree they could have been cut better or better fabric! Sometimes they are too costume-y!
Thank you, f&f. I do think they are really badly cut which is weird cos Michael normally has the best of the best.

Would write more about this but need to go. Just was talking to Hiker about Michael as a work of art and my heart rate has gone insane. I need to go and calm down.
 
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