I Am a Fan, But... (What Makes You Heretic Among Other Fans?)

[filmandmusic]

- I didn't believe in a possible critical success of the this is it tour
- I think his best tours were all done with his brothers and not solo
- I love the girl is mine, girlfriend, just good friends, she drives me wild, I can't let her get away etc basically al the tracks that are somehow not liked by the majority of fans

 

[Nite Line]

- Working Day & Night's live performances were boring and went on for way too long.
- Thriller's live performances were boring too.
- Michael's setlists for Dangerous and This Is It tours were underwhelming.
- Michael's outfits got progressively worse over the years. His outfits during the Jacksons tours were so classy. His outfits during his solo tours except for the Bad Tour were not classy and very tacky. The leotard he wore during the Dangerous Tour was embarrassing. The gold pants worn during the History tour were cringe.
- I love Girlfriend, It's The Falling In Love, Don't Walk Away & You Are My Life.
- Most of Michael's rap features were pointless fillers.
- Michael's solo stuff from Motown deserves more recognition, especially the album Farewell My Summer Love. That album is absolutely gold.
- Had Michael not passed away, I don't believe he would have been able to complete This Is It. I believe his health and lack of sleep would have prevented him from completing the whole tour.
- Michael's duets with high profile artists such as Paul McCartney & Stevie Wonder were very underwhelming. Had he done a song with Prince, it would have been the worst song of both Michael & Prince's career.

 

[filmandmusic]

- Working Day & Night's live performances were boring and went on for way too long.
- Thriller's live performances were boring too.
- Michael's setlists for Dangerous and This Is It tours were underwhelming.
- Michael's outfits got progressively worse over the years. His outfits during the Jacksons tours were so classy. His outfits during his solo tours except for the Bad Tour were not classy and very tacky. The leotard he wore during the Dangerous Tour was embarrassing. The gold pants worn during the History tour were cringe.
- I love Girlfriend, It's The Falling In Love, Don't Walk Away & You Are My Life.
- Most of Michael's rap features were pointless fillers.
- Michael's solo stuff from Motown deserves more recognition, especially the album Farewell My Summer Love. That album is absolutely gold.
- Had Michael not passed away, I don't believe he would have been able to complete This Is It. I believe his health and lack of sleep would have prevented him from completing the whole tour.
- Michael's duets with high profile artists such as Paul McCartney & Stevie Wonder were very underwhelming. Had he done a song with Prince, it would have been the worst song of both Michael & Prince's career.

Wow it is almost as if you have a window in my brain 😱

 

[SoS]

I think that what bothered people (me included) is that they passed the songs as if they were from him, which they weren't. I don't mind covers but that wasn't the problem. I don't mean to turn this thread into discussion about that, but I wanted to point that out.

Thank you. Very important point..to me too. I mean just the blatant lack of integrity is too hard for me to ignore.

 

[zinniabooklover]

Speaking of minority, I like the Dangerous costume better! Yes, I said it (though I think I have said it before somewhere here) ... I think the full gold costume is too busy, too shiny, I cannot focus . Compared to that the Dangerous outfit it much neater and flattering.

After decades of devotion to the Bad outfit I am finally ready to commit to the Dangerous outfit as being the best. I always loved it but the Bad outfit (silver top) always managed to just edge ahead. But now I'm sure. It isn't just that I *love* the Dangerous outfit, it's that I do think it's actually a 'better' costume than Bad. The whole thing is beautiful and the gold fencing leotard is flawless.

It's still a photo finish between them but now Dangerous is No.1.

 

[filmandmusic]

@Hiker @zinniabooklover
Just admit you like it better because it highlights his crotch area😛

 

[Hiker]

@Hiker @zinniabooklover
Just admit you like it better because it highlights his crotch area😛

I don't know what you are talking about . We were just admiring the stitching and the fabric.

 

[Em_to_the_Jay]

my sin... I liked "Dancing the dream" more than Moonwalk
It's one of the most emotionally powerful books I've read and I feel I'll carry within myself forever many bits of the thoughts Michael expressed.

 

[staywild23]

my sin... I liked "Dancing the dream" more than Moonwalk
It's one of the most emotionally powerful books I've read and I feel I'll carry within myself forever many bits of the thoughts Michael expressed.

I totally understand this! I personally fantasize about there being enough work - poetry, short essays, lyrics, etc. to publish another book. Maybe something his kids, or family has access to that they might release some day. I can't imagine he stopped writing all of these things, but there was really no great time to share it. Plus, I know "Dancing the Dream" wasn't as commercially successful as Moonwalk...

That said...what I REALLY want is several additional volumes of material including another memoir and poetry and short essays, but I don't want to be ridiculous now...

 

[zinniabooklover]

- I think his best tours were all done with his brothers and not solo

I'm going back and forth on this. It's a 50 / 50 split between BWT 1987 and Triumph.

The leotard he wore during the Dangerous Tour was embarrassing.

What I see when I look at the leotard is a beautiful dance costume. I mean, it's based on a fencing costume but for Michael's purposes, it's a dance costume. It's very theatrical. I love everything about it. It enhances his physique, his movements, plus it has a beauty and a life of its own. For me, it does everything required of it.

- I love It's The Falling In Love, Don't Walk Away & You Are My Life.
- Most of Michael's rap features were pointless fillers.
- Michael's solo stuff from Motown deserves more recognition

Yes, yes, yes, to all of this.

 

[Hiker]

my sin... I liked "Dancing the dream" more than Moonwalk
It's one of the most emotionally powerful books I've read and I feel I'll carry within myself forever many bits of the thoughts Michael expressed.

Now that I have read Moonwalk, I agree with this. I love them both, but I love the beautiful poems and stories in Dancing the dream more.

 

[AlwaysThere]

• Off the Wall is Michael’s worst solo album. I understand its importance both culturally and within the realm of his career, but its musical canvas and songwriting just doesn’t impress me all that much.
• Rod Temperton’s songs are egregiously overrated. “Thriller” is the only one that deserves the reputation it has; everything else is varying shades of decent/okay.
• “Childhood” is a great (albeit corny) song, and I don’t quite understand the contempt some people show it.
• “Heaven Can Wait” is a mediocre song with one of Michael’s worst vocal performances, and while I’m thrilled to see a deep cut trending (especially from the forgotten Invincible era), I wish it was with a better track.
• Michael and Sony were equally responsible for their public feud, and a compromise could have been reached had both sides acted like adults.
• Michael’s habit of dismissing his talents as divine intervention or something along those lines annoys the hell out of me. I would love to see a serious exploration of his songwriting and production process from his viewpoint, but he refused to elaborate unless he had to (e.g., the 1993 deposition).
• The remixes of “Hollywood Tonight,” “Behind the Mask,” “Much Too Soon,” “Love Never Felt So Good,” “Chicago,” “A Place with No Name,” and “Slave to the Rhythm” are leagues better than the original demos. (Same goes for the leaked cut of “Do You Know Where Your Children Are.”)
• John McClain and Neff-U should be the main producers of any future posthumous albums. Their work thus far has been consistently stellar.
• Relating to the above point: Teddy Riley and Lenny Kravitz’s submissions should’ve been the end of the “only Michael’s collaborators should have the right to complete his work” argument. I understand the want, but the final product is the only relevant part in my eyes (especially when some fans can produce remixes that are on par with or better than official ones).

 

[ChanceToDance]

• Off the Wall is Michael’s worst solo album. I understand its importance both culturally and within the realm of his career, but its musical canvas and songwriting just doesn’t impress me all that much.
• “Heaven Can Wait” is a mediocre song with one of Michael’s worst vocal performances, and while I’m thrilled to see a deep cut trending (especially from the forgotten Invincible era), I wish it was with a better track.

God, I agree. OTW is overrated and it's the album that has aged the worst, the only songs that can sort of redeem the album are Get On The Floor, Rock With You and maybe Don't Stop Till You Get Enough, the rest sounds cheesy.

Break Of Dawn should've been the one trending, Heaven Can Wait just sounds like an inferior version of the song.

 

[filmandmusic]

@AChanceToDance @AlwaysThere

Fucking hell that is definitely heretical 😂🤯
but it’s all good tastes differ!

 

[Dorian]

I stand by @AlwaysThere except the APWNN remark!

 

[filmandmusic]

Break Of Dawn should've been the one trending, Heaven Can Wait just sounds like an inferior version of the song.

Be patient, maybe one day 🥳

 

[divinity in motion ♡]

Hm, I’m guessing this is an unpopular opinion question. Oof, don’t shoot me LOL

1. Dangerous era is his best adult studio album and era. Bad era is his most influential, but he produced his best entertainment during Dangerous era.

2. Bad is not his best adult studio album. There’s some songs I like, but I don’t like the album as a whole. If it was longer with certain demos he didn’t include like Throwing Your Life Away, then I’d have a different opinion about it.

3. I dislike all of that moaning towards the end of In the Closet lol I don’t know why, but it makes me uncomfortable but everyone loves it. People think I’m crazy I don’t like it 😭 I prefer the demo.

4. HIStory is amazing and the era is so underrated imo, but the album is not as innovative as the rest of his albums. Each album came with a fresh different sound that he executes so well, but this felt more repetitive.

 

[zinniabooklover]

3. I dislike all of that moaning towards the end of In the Closet lol I don’t know why, but it makes me uncomfortable but everyone loves it. People think I’m crazy I don’t like it 😭 I prefer the demo.

It doesn't make me feel uncomfortable but I do get bored. I love the song but I love the demo more. I know that technically it makes no sense for Michael to be doing all the vocals but I don't care. I can't listen to the album version at all cos Stephanie's vocals are dreadful. I'm glad Madonna didn't end up working on it with Michael. That would not have worked, imo. But Stephanie isn't great, either. I believe they re-recorded the vocals with Naomi for the video and it certainly sounds like her voice. I can cope with the video just fine. But the demo wins hands down. Every time.

4. HIStory is amazing and the era is so underrated imo

I agree and I would include BOTDF, as well. I know there are only 5 new songs but look at how amazing they are! I have no interest in the remixes but those five songs, omg. To die for.

 

[ChanceToDance]

the album is not as innovative as the rest of his albums. Each album came with a fresh different sound that he executes so well, but this felt more repetitive.

To be honest this could be because half of the songs on HIStory came from past eras, all MJ did was finish them up for the album.

 

[filmandmusic]

I remember as well I was anticipating so much to what HIStory would sound like because up to that point he adopted a different sound with every album. The album was released in a time period where I thought Dangerous was the greatest piece of music ever made and then HIStory came and it was cool but it did sound like more of the same but less inspired (bar a couple of standout tracks). So I really anticipated another different musical direction but it didn’t happen.

So this sounds negative but I really listened to this disc a lot at that time and about half the tracks were absolutely world class to me but imo Dangerous had 14 world class tracks so that is why there was a slight disappointment I guess.

Nowadays I mostly listen to his 70s music up to Thriller. I think his voice was at his best then and I really like the organic sounding music instead of the drum machines and aggressive way of singing which makes it hard to understand the lyrics.

Sounds very contradicting because I just said the entire dangerous album is brilliant but if I had to pick all time favorite MJ songs most would be from his earlier albums.

 

[zinniabooklover]

Nowadays I mostly listen to his 70s music up to Thriller. I think his voice was at his best then and I really like the organic sounding music instead of the drum machines

I go back and forth on this. Dangerous to Invincible means the most to me, that's where I have the emotional connection. That said, the 'organic' sound you get with real instruments, it's something else. Just now, I do seem to be leaning more towards the earlier stuff and it's just beautiful. And, yes, there's a quality to his vocals that is immensely satisfying and absorbing.

 

[Hiker]

HIStory came and it was cool but it did sound like more of the same but less inspired (bar a couple of standout tracks)

That's interesting because I thought HIStory has a different edge, maybe even more inspired by what was happening in his personal life. It has 'i am angry with the world' vibe which probably matches his state if mind at that time.
Though Dangerous is my favourite, there is definitely some magic in OTW, Thriller, Bad and Dangerous which is missing from HIStory.
Invincible is I think acquired taste. I did not like it when I first heard it. I could not hear Michael in it. But now I listen to it quite often. Still songs like Butterflies sound so off.

 

[zinniabooklover]

Invincible is I think acquired taste. I did not like it when I first heard it. I could not hear Michael in it. But now I listen to it quite often. Still songs like Butterflies sound so off.

Oh, this is interesting. Which other songs do you think sound 'off'? And do you mean they sound off as in, it's a weird song for Michael to record or do you mean his vocals sound off? I'm intrigued.

 

[Hiker]

Vocals sound off. I don't know the technical terms like high note / low note. But in Butterflies sometimes he seems to get out of breath (and not in a good ITC way). Usually as a listener when I hear Michael's songs, I can feel the sentiment, he is that good! But I don't get butterflies when I listen to it, I get frowns
Some sound nasal (I have to check back which exactly, but I think Rock my world), but maybe that's what the song demanded, again I have zero knowledge of music so I am just a dummy listener.

 

[zinniabooklover]

I have zero knowledge of music so I am just a dummy listener.

Yeah, same. I have no technical knowledge. I love Invincible and love all the vocals. But I've heard (or read) intriguing criticisms of the album. People have said stuff like, oh, you can tell he had a cold on that track, that's why he sounds crap. Or people think he might have literally phoned in his vocals. I can't remember all the stuff I've heard. None of that stops me loving the album, I just think it's interesting how people listen to the same stuff but hear it so very differently.

 

[SmoothGangsta]

Yeah, Michael's vocals on Invincible aren't all that great on quite a few of the tracks. Best way I can give an example is listen to him scream on that album and then compare it to previous work. His voice sounds strained and like it's gonna break on Invincible.

 

[Hiker]

That is understandable, he had been singing for 35 years even though he was only 40-41 at that time. I just wish he has recognized that and chose different songs to match his voice at that time. Some tracks are really great. All that said, I still listen to Invincible a lot, especially when I am feeling blue-ish.

 

[SmoothGangsta]

It's weird that his voice isn't like that on any of the outtakes. Chicago, Blue Gangsta, A Place With No Name etc.

His voice did seem to return to sounding more youthful as he got older. Hold My Hand and Best of Joy, WBSS 08 etc. His voice sounded great on those.

 

[PurpleThriller]

-Invincible is on my top 3 best MJ albums.

Michael barely wrote/composed/produced or arranged anything on that album.
He wrote just 2 songs,out of the entire album(that has 16 songs).
And he also abandoned all his signature hiccups+99% of his vocals for Invincible were autotuned(something he has never used before)
The album has some gold(Butterflies,Break of Dawn) ,but they are like exceptions.
While Invincible is a good album,it is not up to Michael's standards (i think)
I respect your opinion tho

 

[Hiker]

And he also abandoned all his signature hiccups+99% of his vocals for Invincible were autotuned(something he has never used before)

hiccups 🤣 !
Yeah, that is noticeable. I don't know what autotune does to a voice, but maybe a combination of these two makes it 'dont hear Michael in it'. Maybe his heart was not in it.