I think we're at the stage where we may be doing more harm than good.

[MJTruth]

While I feel it is imperative that the claims in Leaving Neverland are comprehensively debunked and that people are made aware of that information I have always been aware that the MJ fans have played a major part in promoting Leaving Neverland but we were left with very little choice. Remaining silent was worse than giving it more coverage IMO.
Although our continued Twitter war on the show prolongs the promotion of the show and keeps it in the news, it IS important to note that the stories over the last couple of weeks have been MUCH MORE balanced than they were around Sundance. Yes they are still very weak, refusing to call them liars in most cases, but at least they're reporting about the train station, grand canyon trip etc.

Mike Smallcombe has played a pivotal role in turning the media around, BUT even now, when Mike has the concrete evidence that the press themselves can see and verify they are STILL using phrases like "he claims to have evidence..." or "the train station story may be inaccurate". It's infuriating because the press can check! .

so to sum that situation up, the allegations were reported as fact with no evidence, yet the concrete evidence that contradicts those claims are reported as only 'indicative' or 'claims'. Ludicrous!!

The problem with alleged events between two people in a private room with no witnesses is that it is rarely possible to say with 100% certainty that those event didn't happen.

we are lucky that we know with 100% certainty that the Neverland train station wasn't built until 1994 and that it directly contradicts Safechuck's statements in interviews, in the film, in his legal documents. He was consistent. Even now he hasn't publicly said he was wrong on those occasions. Only Dan has said it (in a move that was frankly arrogant in the extreme)

We're also lucky that court testimony and depositions, particularly on the Robson side, have provided a contradicting narrative but sadly they are not being challenged robustly to get answers about exactly when they are lying - then or now?!

These cases rely entirely on witness/victim credibility and fortunately for the MJ fan community there is plenty of evidence that undermines their credibility, and there is plenty of evidence that undermines Dan Reed's credibility. so we have two dubious 'victims' and a dubious director.

That should be enough to cast significant doubt over the ALL the allegations in the film, and I would have hoped for better reporting on that, BUT it doesn't prove that MJ never abused them. Yes I know that may upset some people, but although I feel he never did, nothing proves he never did.

I've used this analogy before but I'll use it again.

If I said I went to the grand canyon on holiday and somebody tells me to prove it I can provide photos, and may be able to show email evidence of buying tickets for the viewing platform etc. That's good evidence. If I say I have NEVER been to the grand canyon and someone tells me to prove it, WHAT evidence could I possible show to prove I never in my life went to the grand canyon??? It's would probably be impossible for me to prove!

That's the situation here for MJ. That's what the haters rely on, that's what Robson, Safechuck, Reed are relying on.

 

[ChrisC]

Mike Smallcombe has played a pivotal role in turning the media around, BUT even now, when Mike has the concrete evidence that the press themselves can see and verify they are STILL using phrases like "he claims to have evidence..." or "the train station story may be inaccurate". It's infuriating because the press can check! .

so to sum that situation up, the allegations were reported as fact with no evidence, yet the concrete evidence that contradicts those claims are reported as only 'indicative' or 'claims'. Ludicrous!!

I noticed that too! Infuriating.

As far as us not being sure one way or another, to me it's back to innocent until proven guilty.

Referring back to the OP, it sits uncomfortably with me that there's a suggestion the fans need to shut up and accept this bullshit. I consider myself a pretty sane, smart, level-headed fan and I applaud the work everyday fans have done in showing that there's actually another side to this story. Course there's nuts out there, always will be, but to accept this situation which has resulted in Michael's reputation being in tatters just doesn't sit with me.

 

[83magic]

I think that we need to re-establish what it means to be a 'fan'. clearly I don't fit this description for being someone who *just* listens to the music.

the same music that made him a household name in the first place, and continues to shape this generation.

the same music that is the centrepiece of his legacy, that I've tried to keep the focus on for as long as I've been on this board (and even before then).

the same music that was playing in the background before I started typing this..

believe it or not, there was a life before the allegations. it wasn't always about struggle and pain. what would you call the people who followed Michael's career before 1993 (or even mid '85 when the 'weird' narrative began to take shape)? are they 'non fans' because they didn't have anything to fight against?

I actually enjoy Michael. his creation makes me happy. that is the sole reason why I absorb myself in it. not because I feel an obligation to 'prove' my loyalty to him as my 'king'.

I choose not to involve myself in his private life because;

a) it's a distraction from that beautiful art

b) I have enough problems of my own than to burden myself with those of a complete stranger. which brings me to..

c) I didn't know him! I have no personal accounts of what went on behind closed doors

I reserve the right to be an individual and think for myself. this 'all or nothing' attitude that is being forced upon some of us *is* cult-like behaviour, that will only end up pushing people away. I shouldn't be made to feel less than because I refuse participate in 'enemies lists'. this is not what I signed up for. if this is the way things are going to be from now on, then count me out.

 

[AG5050]

I noticed that too! Infuriating.

As far as us not being sure one way or another, to me it's back to innocent until proven guilty.

Referring back to the OP, it sits uncomfortably with me that there's a suggestion the fans need to shut up and accept this bullshit. I consider myself a pretty sane, smart, level-headed fan and I applaud the work everyday fans have done in showing that there's actually another side to this story. Course there's nuts out there, always will be, but to accept this situation which has resulted in Michael's reputation being in tatters just doesn't sit with me.

I think a good comparison is how a lot of people view vegans. There are some that spread misinformation, there are some that are completely sane and level headed and make completely valid points that the majority would benefit from listening to and learning from.
Unfortunately the masses are set in their ways and in their beliefs and in trying to make people come around to their way of thinking they ultimately get labelled as annoying, crazed, etc. I feel like MJ fans are very much viewed in the same way, even though it’s not and unfair.

I would rather see the whole thing just die down.

 

[AG5050]

I think that we need to re-establish what it means to be a 'fan'. clearly I don't fit this description for being someone who *just* listens to the music.

the same music that made him a household name in the first place, and continues to shape this generation.

the same music that is the centrepiece of his legacy, that I've tried to keep the focus on for as long as I've been on this board (and even before then).

the same music that was playing in the background before I started typing this..

believe it or not, there was a life before the allegations. it wasn't always about struggle and pain. what would you call the people who followed Michael's career before 1993 (or even mid '85 when the 'weird' narrative began to take shape)? are they 'non fans' because they didn't have anything to fight against?

I actually enjoy Michael. his creation makes me happy. that is the sole reason why I absorb myself in it. not because I feel an obligation to 'prove' my loyalty to him as my 'king'.

I choose not to involve myself in his private life because;

a) it's a distraction from that beautiful art

b) I have enough problems of my own than to burden myself with those of a complete stranger. which brings me to..

c) I didn't know him! I have no personal accounts of what went on behind closed doors

I reserve the right to be an individual and think for myself. this 'all or nothing' attitude that is being forced upon some of us *is* cult-like behaviour, that will only end up pushing people away. I shouldn't be made to feel less than because I refuse participate in 'enemies lists'. this is not what I signed up for. if this is the way things are going to be from now on, then count me out.

Thank you for this. You articulated what I wanted to say much better than I did.

 

[83magic]

Thank you for this. You articulated what I wanted to say much better than I did.

I wanted to say this for awhile. thank you for having the courage to make this thread

 

[SoS]

I don’t need to explain myself to prove that I support Michael. I believe my post history on this forum would already prove that. But given that you’ve asked for clarity:

I didn’t know Michael, I don’t know Wade, I don’t know James, I don’t know the Chandlers, I don’t know the Arvisos etc etc. I don’t feel I can say with 100% conviction that Michael never did anything inappropriate with one of his accusers.
Do I believe he did, no I do not. Does most of the information I have available to me lead me to the conclusion that Michael is innocent? Yes it does. But I do not believe that myself or any other fan can say with 100% certainty that we are right. That is why I don’t believe we should personally attack people online.
Spreading facts and correct information is great. Personally attacking Wade, James, Dan or anyone or calling them names etc I do not agree with, no matter what we believe.

Please note that I already noted and acknowledged that I believe you support MJ’s innocence so the first paragraph you wrote is moot. (Baseless)

Since you already know that Chandler started all this by on tape, constructing the first extortion scheme, and you know a GRAND jury originally refused to indict Michael Jackson based on lack of evidence as well watching Sneddon maliciously plant evidence in front of the grand jury and the appellate court refused to indulge Robson and Safechuck for the same reason LACK of evidence, and that Dan Reed is forcing a false agenda and the one sided shifting shadows of “movie majic” (complete with special effects and sloppy numerous edits and on screen coaxing) trying to pass itself off as a “documentary” (which by definition visually documents objective facts which LN did not) and since you’ve seen Wade fail at suing the estate after he failed to get the cirque job and all the clarity 1 person needs.....

...why do you feel the NEED to ADD that you “can’t know for sure “.

No, NOBODY was there but we would not all be here at all if “being there” or personally knowing all these people was all that necessary.

I realize it’s a free for all to say what they will here but if you support Michael’s innocence I would like to see those words and those words only. Everybody knows”we don’t know these people “ or do we? Maybe we know enough to be huddled around computers being deeply concerned about this wicked assault upon Michael Jackson and all the kids that have been used like pawns by their parents for a dollar, including Wade’s son, who’s been used as his excuse for perpetrating this complete and total VERY OBVIOUS FRAUD. Michael Jackson IS INNOCENT. period. Thanks

 

[Soundmind]

I think that we need to re-establish what it means to be a 'fan'. clearly I don't fit this description for being someone who *just* listens to the music.

the same music that made him a household name in the first place, and continues to shape this generation.

the same music that is the centrepiece of his legacy, that I've tried to keep the focus on for as long as I've been on this board (and even before then).

the same music that was playing in the background before I started typing this..

believe it or not, there was a life before the allegations. it wasn't always about struggle and pain. what would you call the people who followed Michael's career before 1993 (or even mid '85 when the 'weird' narrative began to take shape)? are they 'non fans' because they didn't have anything to fight against?

I actually enjoy Michael. his creation makes me happy. that is the sole reason why I absorb myself in it. not because I feel an obligation to 'prove' my loyalty to him as my 'king'.

I choose not to involve myself in his private life because;

a) it's a distraction from that beautiful art

b) I have enough problems of my own than to burden myself with those of a complete stranger. which brings me to..

c) I didn't know him! I have no personal accounts of what went on behind closed doors

I reserve the right to be an individual and think for myself. this 'all or nothing' attitude that is being forced upon some of us *is* cult-like behaviour, that will only end up pushing people away. I shouldn't be made to feel less than because I refuse participate in 'enemies lists'. this is not what I signed up for. if this is the way things are going to be from now on, then count me out.

Michael Jackson is not my 'King', I rarely visit the music section, I have never commented on any music thread and I have been a member for years. I do like his art but I am not that crazy about it. I hate the injustice he was subjected to. I cannot sit and see someone be persecuted just because others have decided his influence has gotten so big let's put him in his place. No one is forcing you to read anything about the allegations or participate in the conversation. You want to separate the art from the artist it is your choice. You want to say i like the music not the man it is your choice. But, on this website people who believe MJ is guilty are not welcomed. Go enjoy his music somewhere else.

No one asked you to be someone you are not. No one asked you to participate in 'enemies lists'. I do not know who the hell you are. Never read a post by you before today, could not care any less about your opinion and you are entitled to feel the same about me. Don't lecture us on how we handle a vicious malicious attack on a man we admire (not the artist we do admire the MAN HIMSELF).

 

[83magic]

Michael Jackson is not my 'King', I rarely visit the music section, I have never commented on any music thread and I have been a member for years. I do like his art but I am not that crazy about it. I hate the injustice he was subjected to. I cannot sit and see someone be persecuted just because others have decided his influence has gotten so big let's put him in his place. No one is forcing you to read anything about the allegations or participate in the conversation. You want to separate the art from the artist it is your choice. You want to say i like the music not the man it is your choice. But, on this website people who believe MJ is guilty are not welcomed. Go enjoy his music somewhere else.

No one asked you to be someone you are not. No one asked you to participate in 'enemies lists'. I do not know who the hell you are. Never read a post by you before today, could not care any less about your opinion and you are entitled to feel the same about me. Don't lecture us on how we handle a vicious malicious attack on a man we admire (not the artist we do admire the MAN HIMSELF).

I was responding to a particular post that referenced me without quoting me directly. that post did not belong to you..

I did not say that I felt Michael was guilty, or that I didn't like him as a man. I would appreciate it if you did not add words to my statement that I did not originally make. thank you.

this documentary has taken over this entire board. everyday a new thread pops up, or pages get added to an existing thread about it. I only have to look at the titles. his music has been pushed to the bottom. if you check my post history, you'll see that I've tried my best to avoid it until now.

you telling me to 'enjoy his music somewhere else' is proof of the hostile 'all or nothing' attitude I was talking about. keep it up and there won't be a community left, and you'll only have yourself(s) to blame.

 

[Soundmind]

I was responding to a particular post that referenced me without quoting me directly. that post did not belong to you..

I did not say that I felt Michael was guilty, or that I didn't like him as a man. I would appreciate it if you did not add words to my statement that I did not originally make. thank you.

this documentary has taken over this entire board. everyday a new thread pops up, or pages get added to an existing thread about it. I only have to look at the titles. his music has been pushed to the bottom. if you check my post history, you'll see that I've tried my best to avoid it until now.

you telling me to 'enjoy his music somewhere else' is proof of the hostile 'all or nothing' attitude I was talking about. keep it up and there won't be a community left, and you'll only have yourself(s) to blame.

Again no one told you to participate nor read anything about the allegations. Most here are not in the mood to discuss which song is better and how flawless his steps were..etc. You cannot dictate our priorities here.

As for the community, it is as strong as ever, here and everywhere else. Don't worry about the community, we along with MJ's legacy will survive without your contributions.

 

[AG5050]

Please note that I already noted and acknowledged that I believe you support MJ’s innocence so the first paragraph you wrote is moot. (Baseless)

Since you already know that Chandler started all this by on tape, constructing the first extortion scheme, and you know a GRAND jury originally refused to indict Michael Jackson based on lack of evidence as well watching Sneddon maliciously plant evidence in front of the grand jury and the appellate court refused to indulge Robson and Safechuck for the same reason LACK of evidence, and that Dan Reed is forcing a false agenda and the one sided shifting shadows of “movie majic” (complete with special effects and sloppy numerous edits and on screen coaxing) trying to pass itself off as a “documentary” (which by definition visually documents objective facts which LN did not) and since you’ve seen Wade fail at suing the estate after he failed to get the cirque job and all the clarity 1 person needs.....

...why do you feel the NEED to ADD that you “can’t know for sure “.

No, NOBODY was there but we would not all be here at all if “being there” or personally knowing all these people was all that necessary.

I realize it’s a free for all to say what they will here but if you support Michael’s innocence I would like to see those words and those words only. Everybody knows”we don’t know these people “ or do we? Maybe we know enough to be huddled around computers being deeply concerned about this wicked assault upon Michael Jackson and all the kids that have been used like pawns by their parents for a dollar, including Wade’s son, who’s been used as his excuse for perpetrating this complete and total VERY OBVIOUS FRAUD. Michael Jackson IS INNOCENT. period. Thanks

Respectfully, this is a discussion forum and not everyone is going to have the exact same outlook, views and opinion as you do. So as much as you would like to see “those words only”, I’m not here to be told what to do, say, or think by someone else.

You clearly read my topic and disagree with the way I think, I am ok with that, and you have expressed that here as you have the right to do so.

What you don’t have the right to do is make demands on how other people view the situation, if you don’t agree with how I feel, and others who have responded to what I said with support, then it would be simpler to just leave this thread rather than expect us to change our views to align with yours.

 

[Lovepeace1]

Please note that I already noted and acknowledged that I believe you support MJ’s innocence so the first paragraph you wrote is moot. (Baseless)

Since you already know that Chandler started all this by on tape, constructing the first extortion scheme, and you know a GRAND jury originally refused to indict Michael Jackson based on lack of evidence as well watching Sneddon maliciously plant evidence in front of the grand jury and the appellate court refused to indulge Robson and Safechuck for the same reason LACK of evidence,

I wanted to point out in the case of Wade and James the court documents says that It was rejected due to there is no evidence that michael companies were guilty of the abuses for allowing children to spend time with michael because the judges determine that michael was the only responsible for their actions, they do not judge the credibility or not of the facts because due to the time restriction they can not judge it. The reasons for the dismissal were that they could not judge the facts because the crime has been prescribed since it was many years ago and that michael companies can not be responsible for their crimes.
On the other hand in the case chandler after the civil agreement the prosecution filed a criminal complaint but this claim did not post because the testimony of the victim was needed and Jordi Chandler and his family did not want to testify or participate in another judicial process, So having no more victims to testify against Michael, the case ended there.

 

[AG5050]

I wanted to point out in the case of Wade and James the lawsuit was not rejected due to lack of evidence, that was not the case, it was rejected because the time had been prescribed to sue for these facts and because they also considered that the companies michael could not be held responsible for the facts that he could commit. This is why the demand for James and Wade was rejected.
on the other hand in the case chandler after the civil agreement the prosecution filed a criminal complaint but this claim did not post because the testimony of the victim was needed and Jordi Chandler and his family did not want to testify or participate in another judicial process, So having no more victims to testify against Michael, the case ended there.

Thank you. I was tempted to highlight this mistake myself as it’s a classic example of the one the false pieces of information I see fans using every single day on social media and shows what I meant to portray in starting this conversation.
I refrained from doing so as I don’t want to come across as too argumentative, but I’m glad someone else did!

 

[ManBehindTheMirrOr - Dona]

Again no one told you to participate nor read anything about the allegations. Most here are not in the mood to discuss which song is better and how flawless his steps were..etc. You cannot dictate our priorities here.

As for the community, it is as strong as ever, here and everywhere else. Don't worry about the community, we along with MJ's legacy will survive without your contributions.

You are right....the LN-Allegations are important now for many people because greedy people like Wade, James, Reed their partners HBO, channel 4, the media and some Hollywood moguls descided it had to be it in 2019 with this overall global attack on a defenceless man from which they took away ever human right, even the one that a person is presumed to be innocent until prooven guilty.
I want that MJ get this importamt right back cause he is not prooven guilty on this allegations or any other allegations.
I want that it is whritten in every history book that Michael Jackson is not prooven guilty of the allegations of the movie LN becuase the accusers are multible times prooven greedy liars and becuse of that Michael Jackson is presumed to be innocent cause this is the truth!
More is maybe not possible to reach cause unfortunatly this time there can be no criminal trial where MJ can be compleatly aquitted from the allegations.

People who have not the emphaty to understand why the LN subject is so very much important for many people who love MJ that it blows over this and many other forums in the last months and have problems with it should maybe take a few months break from it.

I can alwas talk about MJs art my whole life and did it especially last year mulltible times with my old YouTube Account.
But now it is important for me and others to talk about the allegations of LN and to fight for Justice in this case for the man we love.

 

[Resa]

I noticed that too! Infuriating.

As far as us not being sure one way or another, to me it's back to innocent until proven guilty.

Referring back to the OP, it sits uncomfortably with me that there's a suggestion the fans need to shut up and accept this bullshit. I consider myself a pretty sane, smart, level-headed fan and I applaud the work everyday fans have done in showing that there's actually another side to this story. Course there's nuts out there, always will be, but to accept this situation which has resulted in Michael's reputation being in tatters just doesn't sit with me.

I agree. I am glad that fans haven't just sat back. Currently there is a resurgence of "influencers" encouraging people to just watch the movie again. I don't have a problem with an individual fan deciding to step back. This is tiring and everyone needs a break. My problem with the OP is the encouragement of others to step back. I applaud the fan community for trying to show the other side of these allegations, and disagreeing with the way that the media's articles, think pieces, influencers and some of the general public are acting like Michael has been proven guilty. I believe that Michael was falsely accused, and I can't just sit back and be quiet.

 

[83magic]

another reason I forgot to mention as to why I don't get involved in the personal life, is because it's too emotionally draining and upsetting. not because I don't have empathy. if anything I have too much. I've already experienced the meltdowns I don't enjoy being in that space. I like to remember Michael at his best and celebrate that how does focusing on what made him great in the first place make me less of a fan?!

this is the only thread on the matter that I've participated in. the only reason I did so was because it was an opportunity to share the same sentiment as the original poster. I don't think either of us were telling fans what to do. rather, I see it as us asking for space to allow other conversations. instead you tell us to go elsewhere when there is nowhere else to go. this documentary that I refuse to even watch, has now *become* the board. some people aren't happy until they've casted their dark cloud over everybody. I agree with the thread title; more harm is being done than good...

 

[Amaya]

It's a tricky situation because if the fans go quiet then the anti-MJ agenda the media loves to push will ultimately win out and become "fact". But if the fans do something then we inadvertently feed into it, cause debates and anger, and yes, sadly, some misinformation (although I don't believe it to be malicious, unlike the media). It's important to get the facts out there but we can't be dicks about it. Unfortunately fans that do such things exist in every fandom (I've been in plenty enough to know this to be true) and they won't be going away anytime soon.

I wanted to point out in the case of Wade and James the court documents says that It was rejected due to there is no evidence that michael companies were guilty of the abuses for allowing children to spend time with michael because the judges determine that michael was the only responsible for their actions, they do not judge the credibility or not of the facts because due to the time restriction they can not judge it. The reasons for the dismissal were that they could not judge the facts because the crime has been prescribed since it was many years ago and that michael companies can not be responsible for their crimes.

I know you're trying to set things straight about how exactly the cases got tossed, but I worry that this could very easily be twisted around by the anti-MJ crowd to "prove" that Michael was guilty. And that's why it's important for the fans to talk about this and look carefully and what's being said in the allegations. We already got proof of Safechuck lying about the train station since it did not exist until 1994 (long after he says the alleged abuse ended). Who knows what other holes there are?

 

[Anna]

This isn't targeted at anyone, it's just a general statement: Michael is not here to fight this himself, so we have to be his voice. That's just the way it is and will always be. If you are tired of fighting, step back and rest, but let others continue. Like Taj and Brandi have realised, people burying their heads in the sand for years is what led to this diabolical mess. Detaching yourself from the situation until it goes away is fine if that's what you need to do, but as a collective that is the last thing fans should be doing. We have to think of the big picture. If the fans hadn't stepped up to challenge this in the way that we have, it would have been a complete disaster. Some unintentional promotion of the thing we are fighting against is inevitable, but it's worth it to reduce the damage. When this is behind us we will be able to look back and know that we did right by Michael.

 

[ozemouze]

I hate the injustice he was subjected to. I cannot sit and see someone be persecuted just because others have decided his influence has gotten so big let's put him in his place.

This.

All I wanted with MJ to be able to listen to his music, enjoy his MVs and attend his concerts if possible, as ANY OTHER music lover. Nothing more, nothing less. Then life came, the allegation came, and an innocent man will go down now in history as a monster because of unfounded allegations and extortion attempts, and shameful lazy journalism, with the strongest evicence against him being "but he slept with kids" (which shows how these faux outrage persons don't have a clue at all about the topic of pedophilia BTW).

Feel free to live in a bubble to enjoy his music (I do it myself if I can, I wish I could more often), but please don't question those who raise their voices against this awful injustice. There are people out there who never even listened to MJ but realize the unfairness and the dangers of this whole escalated situation and are expressing their concerns.

Oh and in case you didn't notice, this little annoyance affected the music as well, there are albums, MVs, concerts that never materialised because of it, and never will, and ultimately we lost MJ to this.

And the "we'll never know" is a logical fallacy, you CAN'T prove a negative (people should realize this isn't rational thinking) and there's a reason the burden of proof is on the prosecution. Just think about it, going by this ANYONE can be suspected, as you know, "you never know". Further going by this MJ is actually less suspicious than an average person who was never investigated (as with them "you never know"), but MJ was scrutinized to shreds (strip search anyone?, he gave his DNA sample, his properties were raided unannounced, his PCs were confiscated - and bamm! no child porn was found, and you know that, because he would have been charged with that if there was any) and still the prosecution lost their case in 05 and in 93/94 couldn't even convince two grand juries with their evidence. And if you actually look up these things, you'll find what Razorfist worded so aptly: And the more you read, the more innocent he gets.

Now, this man is being crucified now and killed the second time before our eyes (while real pedophiles with real child porn and real crimes are hiding in the dark).

 

[83magic]

please delete my account

this is truly frightening! I had no idea what I was getting myself into!

when I joined, I was looking forward to celebrating and sharing perspectives on the works of my favourite artist. I had no idea that I was signing my life away to become engulfed in a never-ending battle between good and evil. where said artist is actually a flawless deity, whose life I must put before my very own. where opinions are forced upon me, and refusal to fall in line with the status quo results in attacks or isolation from the angry mob!

i'm an ever sinking island in a sea of negativity! the mere movement of my molecules ruffles feathers far and wide .

put me out of my misery! remove every trace of my existence from this mj universe! let me retreat to my bubble where the only pain I experience is the thunder of the 'billie jean' bassline! :bye2:

 

[Gaz]

Re: please delete my account

this is truly frightening! I had no idea what I was getting myself into!

when I joined, I was looking forward to celebrating and sharing perspectives on the works of my favourite artist. I had no idea that I was signing my life away to become engulfed in a never-ending battle between good and evil. where said artist is actually a flawless deity, whose life I must put before my very own. where opinions are forced upon me, and refusal to fall in line with the status quo results in attacks or isolation from the angry mob!

i'm an ever sinking island in a sea of negativity! the mere movement of my molecules ruffles feathers far and wide .

put me out of my misery! remove every trace of my existence from this mj universe! let me retreat to my bubble where the only pain I experience is the thunder of the 'billie jean' bassline! :bye2:

Hi, as stated in our terms when registering we do 'NOT' delete accounts as it ruins the board and it's flow, if you don't want to be here then just leave...

 

[ozemouze]

I think ultimately my main concern is simply that by continuing to engage, even if its done well and with the right information, that we are keeping this thing alive longer.

Someone made a good point about by not challenging it then it becomes normalised in our culture. This may be a negative or defeatist attitude but unfortunately I feel like the idea that Michael was a child abuser is always going to be normalised in our culture, it's just been too big of a thing since '93 to ever change that no matter how much good work we do.

That's what MJ tried, to "rise above these things", but unfortunately it didn't work.

I agree! This whole thing would have been so much worse if fans weren't out there working tirelessly to debunk these allegations on social media, on YouTube, etc. I think the fans as a whole have been doing a great job. [...]
I hope the fans keep doing what they're doing. I think it's helping.

I agree. It's thanks to their perseverance (and often investigation) that there are now articles out there about the contradictions in LN.

when I joined, I was looking forward to celebrating and sharing perspectives on the works of my favourite artist

That's one of the purpose of this board, so please continue to do so. :flowers: I personally sort of envy you if you can forget about this whole situation and simply enjoy the music. I'm way past this point and feel like many things are overshadowed and tainted now in a very unjust manner.

However, please don't criticize those who raise their voices against the injustice of the situation, and FYI these people aren't just fans (you don't have to like someone to recognize unfair treatment), and certainly don't see MJ as some "flawless deity" (your words).

 

[ozemouze]

Re: please delete my account

Less plastic fans in MJJC

Please don't say this either, MJ's fans should be able to just be the fan of his work and enjoy the music. I have a friend who also choose to "live in a bubble" these days, as she doesn't want to deal with the negativity coming from something that is basically a scam (of course she still reads up on the case and asks me about it here and there). It's not normal what MJ's fans have to go through (and it's nothing compared to what MJ had to endure and what his family is facing now).

 

[AG5050]

Please don't say this either, MJ's fans should be able to just be the fan of his work and enjoy the music. I have a friend who also choose to "live in a bubble" these days, as she doesn't want to deal with the negativity coming from something that is basically a scam (of course she still reads up on the case and asks me about it here and there). It's not normal what MJ's fans have to go through (and it's nothing compared to what MJ had to endure and what his family is facing now).

Unfortunately the attitude among a select few here is that if you don’t fall in line with the exact way they want you to think and feel then you’re a fake fan and shouldn’t be here.
Sad really.

 

[ozemouze]

Unfortunately the attitude among a select few here is that if you don’t fall in line with the exact way they want you to think and feel then you’re a fake fan and shouldn’t be here.
Sad really.

It really goes both way though and actually there is many criticism here on those who can't "just enjoy the music" during this though time and are dissecting the allegations, as they are basically compared to "cult members". Which couldn't be farther from the truth: many of these people (and I say it again: not just fans) read the court papers and gained huge knowledge about the cases during the years (and don't forget: are kind enough to share it), so they are clearly not mindless sheeps, on the contrary: they can think for themselves. To call them sort of blind worshippers is really an insult.

I don't expect every fans to do the same, on the contrary: it's not normal for average fans to follow court proceedings! I can understand if someone wants to avoid all this (TBH I wish I could do the same but I can't just ignore what's going on ATM unfortunately).

But I can't understand the criticism against those who do the fight and spread the truth, e.g. in order to avoid MJ being cancelled among others (because all this affects the music too).

And you're right, we need positivity as well, so bring it on the topics on the music! I may join in too . But please let others to discuss the ongoing case on the other sections of the forum if they want to.

:flowers:

 

[ksat9]

this!

it's such a shame that topics about Michael's art are buried, whilst this ordeal is being dragged out day by day. I just want to celebrate Michael's expression. I don't want to get caught up in this cycle of misery all of the name calling and profanity is so unpleasant!

it *does* feel like a religion, where Michael is our flawless 'king', whose words and actions must be defended and explained at every cost. even though most of us have never met or spoken to him ( I know I haven't). there seems to be a mission to convert everyone, and blacklist those who oppose him as enemies. where is the joy? even before the documentary people were looking for a reason to be mad, by constantly bringing up other old controversies of his personal life. some just love to fight, and this current situation has given them that extra ammunition to do that. it's not healthy to have this level of attachment to a celebrity.

I've been enjoying michael's music and dance for decades, but i'm not married to him, and i'm not his lawyer. letting go of that side of things has made me feel so much lighter. in fact, i'll say it's helped me to enjoy his music even more! I know i'll never stop.

This.
I just want to get back to the music, performances, fashion, etc.
I saw a thread where a fan created on twitter comparing Michael to drills and just laughed because that was something that is needed right now.
I will always defend him, but I know that we can’t change everybody and most people are stuck in their ways and refuse to actually look at documents.
It’s up them to take the time out and research and if they don’t want to them that’s too bad for them.

 

[ozemouze]

I saw a thread where a fan created on twitter comparing Michael to drills and just laughed because that was something that is needed right now.

Drills? I saw one where he was compared to laundry detergents.

Edit: Found the drills as well.

 

[Mikky Dee]

Everyone should do what he/she feels is the right thing to do.
(This is something what Michael would say).
You should not try to tell anyone what is the right thing for him/ her to do in this situation.

I agree with this. Michael Jackson has always stirred strong emotions in people and these often cannot be tempered, just because we might want it to be that way.

I have seen passionate, tenacious and forthright fans sway the opinions of people with their measured responses to their queries and concerns and that, to me, is a good thing.

I think we should be more concerned about Michael and his legacy, than how we are perceived by anonymous "others". That, to me, is something that is beyond our control and it's inconsequential, in terms of the bigger picture. To be perfectly honest, the climate nowadays is really no different to how it has been for MJ fans for the past 20-30 years....it comes with the territory...and most are impervious to the slings and arrows of those who make it their business to be judgmental and shallow.

 

[Sarah_MJ]

I got to say I don't only experience negativity in these months of actively defending Michael every day. Yes, I get hate on social media, my colleagues at work ask me if I saw the film and tell me why they think Michael's guilty and I got to patiently tell them some counterbalance etc. Plus all the emotions of feeling the injustice and especially the ignorance of people. It does drain energy, yes. But. The last months I've again seen our community in action. Globally, we came together for defending Michael, in all countries, all regligions, genders, age groups. This is magical. When I am down I got lifted up by fellow fans, #MJFam is very solidary, very supportive. I've seen so much love the last months, for Michael, for each other, for just the message of love and healing. It shows to me that Michael really created what he always wanted: a united group of people, joined for a mutual cause, no matter where they are from. This feeling of having a global family is proving to me that neighborly love really exists and that Michael's always been right about equality.

To me, Michael doesn't just mean music. Michael is my third parent. His music and his soul are one. If someone attacks Michael, he attacks me as well. I'd not be who I am today without him, he is a part of my socialization. In 2005, Michael needed us. Now, he is gone, but still he needs us now. He can't defend himself anymore, so we & his family and friends got to be his voice now. And when Michael needs me, I'm there. No. Matter. What. And that is why I am not capable of ignoring what's happening currently. I cannot stand by while ignorant people try to destroy his legacy. I want to help out, I want to be there for him. So I am.

 

[Amaya]

Re: please delete my account

this is truly frightening! I had no idea what I was getting myself into!

when I joined, I was looking forward to celebrating and sharing perspectives on the works of my favourite artist. I had no idea that I was signing my life away to become engulfed in a never-ending battle between good and evil. where said artist is actually a flawless deity, whose life I must put before my very own. where opinions are forced upon me, and refusal to fall in line with the status quo results in attacks or isolation from the angry mob!

i'm an ever sinking island in a sea of negativity! the mere movement of my molecules ruffles feathers far and wide .

put me out of my misery! remove every trace of my existence from this mj universe! let me retreat to my bubble where the only pain I experience is the thunder of the 'billie jean' bassline! :bye2:

Yikes.

First off, BREATHE. The only thing you got yourself into was poor timing; if LN never happened none of this shit would be going on right now.

Second, if you want to retreat into a bubble and just enjoy the music and not deal with the negative stuff, that's totally fine. You can be a fan in your way and others can be fans in their way as long as it's not hurting anyone. Fans defending him doesn't hurt anyone (unless they get too violent which, yes, is very wrong), and just enjoying the music doesn't hurt anyone.