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Is Michael Jackson Underrated?

FedoraHatGirl2058 said:
Michael played piano, percussion, guitar, i dont know why is that is never said, may be cause he was so wonderful on stage, like James Brown, they were not simply musicians they were more, they were performers

As far as songwriting, and composing Michael was simply INGENIUS, he was versatile and personal all at the same time, i cant even describe his musical style, it was all very him, all very Michael Jackson, thats something i have yet to see on other artists, he was PERSONAL, like i said he was not pop, not rock, not soul, it was Michael Jackson, a unique musical style.
His voice, the same as his composing skills, he used his voice a lot in composing as well.
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:shades: agreed. Especially on the versatile and personal bit.
 
babykinsilk05 said:
Here are some really great articles talking about MJ the ARTIST.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joe-vogel/michael-jackson-man-in-th_b_221278.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joe-vogel/michael-jackson-man-in-th_b_221797.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joe-vogel/michael-jackson-man-in-th_b_222860.html
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You missed part 4:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joe-vogel/michael-jackson-man-in-th_b_224603.html

__________________________

Regarding Michael being underrated — the answer, in my opinion, is YES.

Firstly, he doesn't get nowhere near enough credit for his vocals, which i will never understand. Look at the way he 'morphed' his voice over the years. He adapted like a wild animal to a new environment, treading into new territory as an artist. He challenged himself vocally and came out a winner every time. Each of his albums have a different flavour, different sound. He lasted so long in the music industry not only because of his visual artistry (short films, concerts, dancing etc) but because his VOICE was incredible and people wanted to hear it. If you strip away everything from Michael you are left with his most prized, God-given gift that i don't think anyone can critize.

Secondly, his musicianship is incredible; the passion that exudes from his songs is sublime. You feel at one with the lyrics, the melody, the voice, because Michael embeds that factor into his art, making you listen to every detail in his music. His songs aren't just songs, they're stories. Same goes for his videos — they tell a story, putting a visual to a melody. That's exactly why he called them 'short films'.

His songwriting and composing/producing skills are severly overlooked, too. People tend to think that Quincy Jones is the mastermind behind Michael's success and that's just bulls*it. Two minds are better than one in some cases and Michael knew that, so when he felt that another person should step in to further the development of a certain song, he welcomed it. He worked with people that would bring out the best of him in that particular song — whatever it may be. He also knew when his talents were capable of mastering a song on their own. Take "Billie Jean" for example: he wrote and worked on that BY HIMSELF. Christ, Quincy didn't even want it on Thriller! Can you imagine?!

So yeah, that is why i think Michael is underrated. Sure, his videos get recognition, as do his dancing skills — and so they should — but he is so much more than imagery for us. He is a talent so complex, with so many different abilities it's actually mind-boggling. I tend to think that because he has so much talent people can't register it all at once thus only focusing on a certain aspect of him. I think that seeing something over listening to something has more of an instant affect on people. If you see Michael on stage he completely captivates you, an instant connection happens. With his music, it's the same thing, but people seem to enjoy visual effect more, like watching his videos for the song.

That's another layer of his talent — he is capable of attraching lovers of visual and lovers of music, making one become a lover of both, if they weren't already. He knew that someone may only like his videos, so he redefined the art. He knew that someone may only like his music, so he created masterpieces. He knew that someone may only like him in concert, so he put on a spectacle never to be forgotten. He knew that someone may only like his dancing, so he made his moves global phenomenons that people all over the world would imitate.

Michael Joseph Jackson was a genius and pioneer. Anyone who tries to dispute it is simply ignorant.
 
I think Michael's very underrated as a vocalist. As a performer/dancer, no but I always hear people say "It's all about the dancing" but if you listen to the music, the vocals are incredible. Not many artists have a range of vocals like Michael.

But as a performer on the whole, I don't think so. But, Michael's so unique in what he does. In one of the documentaries (can't remember which one) somebody described it really well. They said that when you go to an MJ concert, it's not as if he's singing and performing to the crowd, you feel as if he's singing to you. There's very few artists that could make people faint by just standing there. All he has to do is stand and stare at the crowd and people just drop to the floor :giggle:
 
I believe MJ was a underrated vocalist. He's one of the few artists that can give a little but evoke a lot.
 
MJJKingForever said:
You have no idea about how famous MJ is. He is number 1 when it comes to albums sales but you think he is underrated? That made me laugh. =)
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The industry definitely doesn't acknowledge him at times as they should.

With Off The Wall, Michael strongly felt the slight. The album was the first by a soloist to rank 4 top 10 singles, and it' only received one Grammy nomination. (Just think, Taylor Swift just got something like 8 or 10 noms (I forget actual #) for her album.

MJ says in Moonwalk he was determined not to be overlooked with his next album, which the result of course was Thriller. He won 8 for that one, but when you think of his over 30 years of charting hits and the caliber of his work, and he only received about 13 grammys, the lack of appreciation is evident.

Also, when the so call music authorites in the form of Rolling Stone, etc., do their little lists, The Beatles, Elvis, and even Madonna will rank higher. Michael generally doesn't even rate in the top 5 or 10.. I actually saw one that had him come in somewhere like 35!!!! Now that's just nuts.

We can say those things don't matter, but they're representative of how Michael was underrated.

.
 
MJJKingForever said:
You have no idea about how famous MJ is. He is number 1 when it comes to albums sales but you think he is underrated? That made me laugh. =)
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He is underrated.

He gets a lot of praise and is one of the most famous people to ever live, but he is still underrated.

There are things that people really dont appreciate about Michael.

For example, people dont even know that he beatboxes! Ive show people videos of him beatboxing and they are like..whoaaaaa I didnt even know he did this! As well as people not really stopping to appreciate certain songs of his, or certain vocals he puts out.

They can watch it and like it, but thats only as far as it goes really. Id love to just sit everybody in the world down in a massive room with one big screen and nobody would be allowed to talk. Then I would show them about 10 or 20 different videos of my choice.
 
yes, I don't even understand how elvis or madonna are rated b4 him. elvis didnt even write his own music. I think MJ is very underrated as a songwriter, vocalist and humanitarian btw. Most people see him just as a pop artist, a performer instead of other things.

Seth Riggs about his vocal range in the 80s
He’s a high tenor with a three-and-a-half octave range. He goes from basso low E up to G and A-Flat above high C. A lot of people think its falsetto, but it’s not. It’s all connected, which is remarkable.
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As he got older, his vocal range increase
http://www.maximum-jackson.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=5356
Vocal timbre: Spinto, Countertenor, Baritone
Technically, Michael has one of the finest voices in contempary music. His first advantage is the natural speed of his voice. He has the ability to sing in staccato, and sing complex rhythms in perfect timing. The best recorded example of this is the title track from his 1979 album, Off The Wall.
Michael possesses a 4 (!!!) octave vocal range. (Christina Aguelira has a 3 1/2 octave range, Whitney 3, just to give you an example of great voices). His voice goes from two E's below middle C, to two B's above middle C, or 44 notes. This is an EXTREMELY rare range amongst adult male singers. Essentially, Michael is able to reach octaves that other tenors cannot attain with their natural voice. His voice is NOT falsetto, as many people believe. Of course, MJ does use falsetto, but this is the range of notes he can sing in full voice. If you listen to the butterflies acapella, you can hear that all those high notes are in full voice and not falsetto.
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And, I think this is a great thread to learn about him as a songwriter? and learn about his work ethic few artists have.
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-m...-worked-michael-jacksons-dangerous-album.html
 
Adore said:
As a performer, no. As a songwriter, composer and vocalist - big yes.
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I agree completely.

OnOurWay said:
People get caught up in the spectacle of his performing and dancing skill that fans become fixated on that aspect and somewhat chose to not acknowledge the other aspects that comprise "Michael Jackson". Casual fans don't and probably will never understand the lyrical depth of songs like SIM, MITM, DD, or TJ. They just like the songs for what they are rather than what they stand for. Only when you become a true fan do you fully begin to understand the man we know as Michael Jackson.
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It's true that many more 'casual' fans as you put it do not realise the extent of Michael's talent. He was a wonderful songwriter and producer, director (in his short films), he knew how to make himself stand out too - not always a positive thing, but true all the same! His humanitarian efforts/donations to charity are also incredible and were little known before MJ's passing in June.

So yes, he is underrated, just not as a performer.
 
L.T.D said:
He is underrated.

They can watch it and like it, but thats only as far as it goes really. Id love to just sit everybody in the world down in a massive room with one big screen and nobody would be allowed to talk. Then I would show them about 10 or 20 different videos of my choice.
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And be sure to include him actually singing acapella. Really shows how amazing his vocals were.
 
lilsusie said:
yes, I don't even understand how elvis or madonna are rated b4 him. elvis didnt even write his own music. I think MJ is very underrated as a songwriter, vocalist and humanitarian btw. Most people see him just as a pop artist, a performer instead of other things.
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There really is a bias against him. Don't know if it's racial or the fact that he was indeed the greatest entertainer ever. Just that kind of terminology annoys some and they'll challenge it and try to undermine the viewpoint.
 
Yes, his true talent as an entertainer has been so overshadowed by negative media in the last 15 years or so, that it has been hard for new fans to tell what is true and what is not. Michael was an extraordinary artist and person. Even now, I am still discovering new facts about the true depths of his abilities. Long live the King! :)
 
The simple answer is YES.

You know, this is the kind of thing some people say (this was actually said to me): ''He hasn't made any impact in music, the only good thing was Thriller which was all down to Quincy Jones, he hasn't done anything good since 1983. He doesn't deserve to be called 'King of Pop', he is overhyped by clever marketing.''
Wow.. talk about asking for it. It was either time for me to laugh or get angry.

Adore said:
As a performer, no. As a songwriter, composer and vocalist - big yes.
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Agree.

gerryevans said:
And be sure to include him actually singing acapella. Really shows how amazing his vocals were.
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:yes: :heart:
 
I hate it when people give Quincy Jones all the credit for the Off The Wall, Thriller and Bad albums. Quincy was good at what he did but it was Michael's over all vision that put those albums together. Michael was the one who is in the drivers seat the whole time

and Quincy Jones isn't the only one who contributed to those albums. How come there's love for the great songwriters like Rod Temperton. If you ask me i think that Rod Temperton deserves more praise and attention than Quincy Jones because Rod has written some of Michael's best songs ever

OK i went off track a little there. Sorry about that
 
analogue said:
I hate it when people give Quincy Jones all the credit for the Off The Wall, Thriller and Bad albums. Quincy was good at what he did but it was Michael's over all vision that put those albums together. Michael was the one who is in the drivers seat the whole time

and Quincy Jones isn't the only one who contributed to those albums. How come there's love for the great songwriters like Rod Temperton. If you ask me i think that Rod Temperton deserves more praise and attention than Quincy Jones because Rod has written some of Michael's best songs ever

OK i went off track a little there. Sorry about that
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I Totally Agree...Do you know there are those that actually think Quincy wrote Billie Jean?, I was like WOW...OK! I think MJ helped create this problem, He always gave Quincy more praise for the work that HE did himself then he should have. People forget that it was MJ who brought Quincy into the project(s) to begin with.
 
People just become so in awe of him as a performer and dancer they forget how versatile his talents are. His songwriting is phenomenal, his production skills impeccable, and his skills as a buisnessman amazing, his voice just awe inspiring, and that's just the start. I get sick of people who try and compare him to Prince, saying Prince is better because he 'plays his own instruments.' Its complete bull. I like Prince but could he have sold out the o2 50 times, I don't think so.
 
Can I just say, Michael is currently rated as the third best selling artist of all time, behind The Beatles and Elvis receptively. To me this has to be bollocks! There is no way Elvis has sold more than Michael, not even close! None of his albums are in the top sellers category and he never had a massive fan-base outside the US. The Beatles on the other hand, yeah, the sixties they definitely sold an unprecedented amount of records and deserve the best selling artist in history title, but Michael Jackson HAS to be second. I think the stupid record labels don't want to give him the credit...
 
I agree with all of you...As a performer, obviously he gets the respect he deserves...But as a writer, composer, arranger, and a VOCALIST!! OMG, his voice! Very underrated! I personally think that a true musician is what Michael is...beatboxing/composing the melody in his head! THAT is genius!
 
NatalieM said:
You missed part 4:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joe-vogel/michael-jackson-man-in-th_b_224603.html

__________________________

Regarding Michael being underrated — the answer, in my opinion, is YES.

Firstly, he doesn't get nowhere near enough credit for his vocals, which i will never understand. Look at the way he 'morphed' his voice over the years. He adapted like a wild animal to a new environment, treading into new territory as an artist. He challenged himself vocally and came out a winner every time. Each of his albums have a different flavour, different sound. He lasted so long in the music industry not only because of his visual artistry (short films, concerts, dancing etc) but because his VOICE was incredible and people wanted to hear it. If you strip away everything from Michael you are left with his most prized, God-given gift that i don't think anyone can critize.

Secondly, his musicianship is incredible; the passion that exudes from his songs is sublime. You feel at one with the lyrics, the melody, the voice, because Michael embeds that factor into his art, making you listen to every detail in his music. His songs aren't just songs, they're stories. Same goes for his videos — they tell a story, putting a visual to a melody. That's exactly why he called them 'short films'.

His songwriting and composing/producing skills are severly overlooked, too. People tend to think that Quincy Jones is the mastermind behind Michael's success and that's just bulls*it. Two minds are better than one in some cases and Michael knew that, so when he felt that another person should step in to further the development of a certain song, he welcomed it. He worked with people that would bring out the best of him in that particular song — whatever it may be. He also knew when his talents were capable of mastering a song on their own. Take "Billie Jean" for example: he wrote and worked on that BY HIMSELF. Christ, Quincy didn't even want it on Thriller! Can you imagine?!

So yeah, that is why i think Michael is underrated. Sure, his videos get recognition, as do his dancing skills — and so they should — but he is so much more than imagery for us. He is a talent so complex, with so many different abilities it's actually mind-boggling. I tend to think that because he has so much talent people can't register it all at once thus only focusing on a certain aspect of him. I think that seeing something over listening to something has more of an instant affect on people. If you see Michael on stage he completely captivates you, an instant connection happens. With his music, it's the same thing, but people seem to enjoy visual effect more, like watching his videos for the song.

That's another layer of his talent — he is capable of attraching lovers of visual and lovers of music, making one become a lover of both, if they weren't already. He knew that someone may only like his videos, so he redefined the art. He knew that someone may only like his music, so he created masterpieces. He knew that someone may only like him in concert, so he put on a spectacle never to be forgotten. He knew that someone may only like his dancing, so he made his moves global phenomenons that people all over the world would imitate.

Michael Joseph Jackson was a genius and pioneer. Anyone who tries to dispute it is simply ignorant.
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I AGREE COMPLETELY, on every single word (thanks for the 4 part of the articles)
 
posting 4th article here

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joe-vogel/michael-jackson-man-in-th_b_224603.html


Joe Vogel

Author, cultural critic

Michael Jackson, Man in the Music, Part 4 (Tabloid Junkie)

This is Part 4 of a series exploring Michael Jackson the artist through his albums and songs. The following excerpt is taken from Chapter 5 of Man in the Music: An Album by Album Guide to Michael Jackson

If Dangerous is Michael Jackson's most creative album, HIStory is his most personal. From the impassioned rage of "Scream" to the painful sincerity of "Childhood," HIStory is, in Jackson's words, "a musical book." It encompasses all that he had felt and held in over the difficult past few years: it was his diary, his canvas, his rebuttal. Rolling Stone described it as an "exhilarating... often heartbreaking package." In retrospect, it is also one of Jackson's most underrated albums...


...Following the pleading vulnerability of "Childhood" is the provocative "Tabloid Junkie": a full-fledged indictment of the news media's increasing penchant for sensationalism and misinformation. Critics have typically reviewed such songs as examples of Jackson's persecution complex and self-absorption, but such a dismissal misses a more important fact: unlike most pop music content to dwell in shallow sentimentality and recycled clichés, Jackson, in this rather ambitious track, is singing truth to power on an issue with relevance far beyond his personal life.

The song begins with the authoritative voice of a newscaster mindlessly repeating tabloid fodder as fact. It is a sort of postmodern, Orwellian moment where the mainstream media becomes the "ministry of truth," the controller and manipulator of its audience's social reality. "Truth" simply doesn't matter. What matters is entertainment, ratings, and a drug-like addiction to endless spectacle. "Facts" are whatever is printed or broadcast on TV to a passive, un-critical audience. In the song, as the newscaster speaks, keyboards begin typing frantically, illustrating how quickly stories (whether true or false, important or unimportant) are consumed, copied and spread.

In this case, many of the stories involve the "strange and weird" Michael Jackson, who, to both the reporters and audience, is no longer a human being but a consumable object. Jackson allows the breathless reporting to build until it turns in to an all-out feeding frenzy with the sounds of wild animals representing so-called journalists.

"Speculate to break the one you hate," Jackson sings in a gritty opening rap, "Circulate the lie you confiscate/ Assassinate and mutilate/ As the hounding media in hysteria." Many people don't realize that Jackson, in this track and others, specifically uses the vehicle of hip-hop to deliver a political message. In this case, the verses are conveyed in short, biting rhymes, before the melody comes in the chorus, repeating the mantra: "Just because you read it in a magazine/ See it on the TV screen/ Don't make it factual, actual." Jackson, in essence is providing counter-programming to the "news"; between verses the newscaster continues to recite stories that Jackson pleads with his audience not to believe. "It's slander," he proclaims later in the song. "You say it's not a sword/But with your pen you torture men/You'd crucify the Lord." These are some powerful lyrics from an artist one reviewer claimed had "a woefully narrow awareness of life."

Composed by Jackson along with R&B masterminds Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, "Tabloid Junkie" is a deftly constructed, sonically layered, four-and-a-half minute polemic that demands truth and accountability. Rolling Stone described the track as a "mammoth funk-rock construction" with "lush vocal harmonies" and "quick-voiced warnings about the failings of media truth." Indeed, in an age when the "mainstream media" and tabloid coverage are conflated more than ever, when celebrity obsession consistently trumps far more important news, and undiscerning viewers are frequently distracted or deceived from the truth, Jackson's song remains an all too relevant rebuttal and warning.

[Note: This excerpt was written before Michael Jackson's death. It rings more true than ever in the aftermath of the singer's passing as we have, once again, seen an irresponsible, reckless media frenzy in which numerous "respectable" media outlets have relied on tabloid sites like TMZ and the Daily Mail and dedicated hours to trivial and sourceless speculation.]

(Copyright by Joseph Vogel, from Man in the Music: An Album by Album Guide to Michael Jackson)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rXlOVZF4Jc&feature=player_embedded








http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/michael-jackson/
 
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sloride said:
People just become so in awe of him as a performer and dancer they forget how versatile his talents are. His songwriting is phenomenal, his production skills impeccable, and his skills as a buisnessman amazing, his voice just awe inspiring, and that's just the start. I get sick of people who try and compare him to Prince, saying Prince is better because he 'plays his own instruments.' Its complete bull. I like Prince but could he have sold out the o2 50 times, I don't think so.
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This

I never compare him to Prince because they are two different types of awesome.

But as a songwriter, composer and vocalist I agree 100%
so underrated.

His voice, you can't even say "often imitated never duplicated" because it can't be imitated.

He is probably the most articulate songwriter ever and he showcases his intelligence throughout.

His composing always paints pictures in my head.

btw he most underrated as a human being.
 
I would just echo what most are saying here: As a performer definitely not, but as a writer/producer/vocalist definitely yes. I think most people would be impressed if they really knew how Michael goes about writing his songs. Well maybe This Is It showed a bit of that to the public at least (the professional, perfectionist side of Michael).
 
I don't think he is underrated!!!!!!!!

But he is hated by jealous and/or racist people!!!!!!
 
I don't know if this is true or not but apprantly Michael could have gotten a co-producing credit for the Thriller album but Quincy Jones ego got in the way and he took full producing credit himself

I've heard this from fan forums online
 
gerryevans said:
The industry definitely doesn't acknowledge him as they should.

With Off The Wall, Michael strongly felt the slight. The album was the first by a soloist to rank 4 top 10 singles, and it' only received one Grammy nomination. (Just think, Taylor Swift just got something like 8 or 10 noms (I forget actual #) for her album.

MJ says in Moonwalk he was determined not to be overlooked with his next album, which the result of course was Thriller. He won 8 for that one, but when you think of his over 30 years of charting hits and the caliber of his work, and he only received about 13 grammys, the lack of appreciation is evident.

Also, when the so call music authorites in the form of Rolling Stone, etc., do their little lists, The Beatles, Elvis, and even Madonna will rank higher. Michael generally doesn't even rate in the top 5 or 10.. I actually saw one that had him come in somewhere like 35!!!! Now that's just nuts.

We can say those things don't matter, but they're representative of how Michael was underrated.

.
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Ahahaha i big hahahah for Rolling Stone who love so much the greatest musical act that ever existed, ladies and gentleman i give you Nirvana...can i say more??????
Rolling Stone considers Bob Dylan better vocalist then Michael Jackson...can i say more????
Dont know whether to laugh or laugh :hysterical: (STUPIDS)

lilsusie said:
yes, I don't even understand how elvis or madonna are rated b4 him. elvis didnt even write his own music. I think MJ is very underrated as a songwriter, vocalist and humanitarian btw. Most people see him just as a pop artist, a performer instead of other things.

Seth Riggs about his vocal range in the 80s


As he got older, his vocal range increase
http://www.maximum-jackson.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=5356



And, I think this is a great thread to learn about him as a songwriter? and learn about his work ethic few artists have.
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/403276-post-here-if-you-worked-michael-jacksons-dangerous-album.html
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Super post, excelent.

babykinsilk05 said:
I Totally Agree...Do you know there are those that actually think Quincy wrote Billie Jean?, I was like WOW...OK! I think MJ helped create this problem, He always gave Quincy more praise for the work that HE did himself then he should have. People forget that it was MJ who brought Quincy into the project(s) to begin with.
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OMG, some ppl think Quincy wrote Billie Jean???????:bugeyed it was actually Quincy the one who dindt want Billie Jean, Quincy thought it was not that good (should i say more???), but of course Michael did wanted it and of course he put it on Thriller, and yes Michael gave Quincy a lot of credit -_-, too much credit, and yes it was Michael who brought Quincy to his project...people are stupid (some are just in DENIAL, they dont want to acknoledge his talent, for some reason)

sloride said:
People just become so in awe of him as a performer and dancer they forget how versatile his talents are. His songwriting is phenomenal, his production skills impeccable, and his skills as a buisnessman amazing, his voice just awe inspiring, and that's just the start. I get sick of people who try and compare him to Prince, saying Prince is better because he 'plays his own instruments.' Its complete bull. I like Prince but could he have sold out the o2 50 times, I don't think so.
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the first part i bolded, always said it, always thinked of how bast*rd some so called music critics underrated him...basterds

and Prince, that friggin Prince, egocentric as the little man he is.., always that TIRED UP ARGUMENT THAT HE PLAYS ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL HIS INSTRUMENTS!!!!!!!!!!! is so stupid, there are hundreds and hundreds who ALSO PLAY ALL THEIR OWN INSTRUMNTS, are they better?????, come on!!!!!!!!!!, i like Prince, but in artistical levels, he comes nowhere near Michael, nowhere, and i really like him just as i like Lenny Kravitz who also plays all his instruments, come on! that TIRED UP ARGUMENT, is the only thing the say, and with all my respect to Prince, he's not that good at playing ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL his OWN instrumensts, he is not Mozart nor Rachmaninoff for GOD'S SAKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! someone say it to him....
mc8755 said:
Can I just say, Michael is currently rated as the third best selling artist of all time, behind The Beatles and Elvis receptively. To me this has to be bollocks! There is no way Elvis has sold more than Michael, not even close! None of his albums are in the top sellers category and he never had a massive fan-base outside the US. The Beatles on the other hand, yeah, the sixties they definitely sold an unprecedented amount of records and deserve the best selling artist in history title, but Michael Jackson HAS to be second. I think the stupid record labels don't want to give him the credit...
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ahahahahaha, yeah right and im the reincarnation of Michael Jackson here typing every little word...
 
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