Joe outside Michael's house: "I got something that will end all our problems".

BONGANI

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I read, I think on Karen's page from fans who were outside Michael's house that Joe pitched up, started banging on Michael's gates shouting : "Michael, I got something that will end all our problems." Apperantly Katherine was present but remained in the car. I'm curious as to what Joe was refering to, now especially that we know Joe was always suspicious of Thome. Could what Joe was refering to have helped Michael in any way? Its important to note that Joe supposedly said, "OUR" problems which could mean Michael had been voicing his concerns to Joe. What's your take?
 
I read, I think on Karen's page from fans who were outside Michael's house that Joe pitched up, started banging on Michael's gates shouting : "Michael, I got something that will end all our problems." Apperantly Katherine was present but remained in the car. I'm curious as to what Joe was refering to, now especially that we know Joe was always suspicious of Thome. Could what Joe was refering to have helped Michael in any way? Its important to note that Joe supposedly said, "OUR" problems which could mean Michael had been voicing his concerns to Joe. What's your take?

Oh yea, i read about it on Karen's page, however the truth was not posted there as some people were confused about timing and someone .... was deleteing post/answers about Joe, therefore the discussion was left unfinished ....
Some insiders know the deal, if they want to post here.
 
i find that mind boggling,hope someone can shed light on this,
when was this?was it days before that day or the night before.
 
Karen Faye,IMHO was an enabler herself.

I don't put much truth in her statements..

But good for Joe for tryna reach Michael.
 
I read, I think on Karen's page from fans who were outside Michael's house that Joe pitched up, started banging on Michael's gates shouting : "Michael, I got something that will end all our problems." Apperantly Katherine was present but remained in the car. I'm curious as to what Joe was refering to, now especially that we know Joe was always suspicious of Thome. Could what Joe was refering to have helped Michael in any way? Its important to note that Joe supposedly said, "OUR" problems which could mean Michael had been voicing his concerns to Joe. What's your take?


When was this, how long ago before he died?
 
Oh yea, i read about it on Karen's page, however the truth was not posted there as some people were confused about timing and someone .... was deleteing post/answers about Joe, therefore the discussion was left unfinished ....
Some insiders know the deal, if they want to post here.

hmmm...I also would like to know when this happened. I hope folks who do know will help shed light on this.
 
When was this, how long ago before he died?

I think there were pics posted of Joe outside MJ's house. HE was wearing a Fedora, a black suit with a blue shirt, If I'm not mistaken. Can anyone do a forum search? I'm not too computer savvy.
 
i believe this rumour for one,it goes like this MJ wanted all of the concerts cancelled or rescheduled,having met with joe jackson and leonard rowe to discuss allgoods 1 off reunion concert in earlier months,he was now on better terms with Joe.
MJ was so furious about being duped in to 50 from 10 he fired Frank Dileo on around the 24th/23rd said he was surrounded by hangerson etc and wanted Joe Jackson to be called to the house and take over Franks role for the o2 tour,his aides were against it thus all phones were not working+missing cctv videotapes.
Joe Jackson reportedly arrived starrted banging on the door ,security wouldnt let him through,then Joe jackson made refernce to this when he said he was waving at fans earlier in his press statement.

i posted this in another thread...
one of these stories as to what happened has got to be true,it cant just be a simple heart attack because there is so much conflicting evidence..
heres another possible...
around the end of may start of june Michael decided he wasnt playing ball with AEG anymore and threatened to pull out of all the concerts citing lack of control over his contract,AEG booking a further 40 more on the premise of selling the first 10 out so fast,MIChael complains to fans at reahsal about only wanting to do 10 and waking up to 50,Randy Phillips goes on youtube denying that there were any fans presence at reheasls and he didnt says this its just rumour to which a whole list of rumours are denied including he was suffering from skin cancer,AEG contacted Frank Dileo to try and reason with Michael,around the 20th june to the 24th june Michaels has seriously itchy feet about the whole concerts and how they are being handled by his management DILEO,in a state having met with his father earlier in the last month to talk over the jackson s reunuin one off special that he is reluctant to do,want Joe Jackson to REPLACE DILEO and take over the O2 tour responsibilities as manager,there are numerous reports of Joe jackson not being allowed to get close to his son in the last days even at Michaels request his aides decided it was a bad move as such the phone lines were cut for privacy and to stop MJ from phoning out to get help.
from this point on you could add numerous conclusions to the story
but i would like to hear if Dileo has heard maybe this one story
 
like all the other storeis that normally end up as chinese whispers i take this with a pinch of salt like all the others. joe and allgood were causing mj nothing but stress and no doubt contributed to his sleepness nights
 
like all the other storeis that normally end up as chinese whispers i take this with a pinch of salt like all the others. joe and allgood were causing mj nothing but stress and no doubt contributed to his sleepness nights
I agree
they were trying to hold his 02 concerts for ransom if he didnt agree
to thier deal_ and they still are trying to take a piece of it as we speak
they are suing for a peace of the TII profits_ MJ wrote a letter dismissing
Thome and also he dismisses Rowe/Joe in a letter _ stating he didnt want
him involved _ they were presuring Michael over this J5 reunion through Allgood
MJ didnt say never he said LATER ..
 
I agree
they were trying to hold his 02 concerts for ransom if he didnt agree
to thier deal_ and they still are trying to take a piece of it as we speak
they are suing for a peace of the TII profits_ MJ wrote a letter dismissing
Thome and also he dismisses Rowe/Joe in a letter _ stating he didnt want
him involved _ they were presuring Michael over this J5 reunion through Allgood
MJ didnt say never he said LATER ..

Poor poor Michael , Just far to much stress....The poor baby.
 
Joe has always been a pain in the ass, he never wanted to "help" Michael he wanted to help himself
Michael was alone completely alone
 
I cant believe 2 things with that scenario, one, that he wanted to tour with the family, and secondly that he'd want his father managing him.

It seems to be common knowledge now that Michael didnt want to do all the o2 dates and was pissed about it, but I think he saw little choice in the matter and just got on with the job in hand. Looking at the pics of the set, Michael, despite being hacked off, was pulling out all the stops creatively to make it the best. The strain of many different pressures on him was just too great in the end. Doesnt help when you have Murray as a doctor either.
 
Joe has always been a pain in the ass, he never wanted to "help" Michael he wanted to help himself
Michael was alone completely alone

apart from grace, the kids, the producers of his music, all the people at This Is It rehearsals and his mother. Michael wasn't alone.
 
Karen Faye,IMHO was an enabler herself.

I don't put much truth in her statements..

But good for Joe for tryna reach Michael.


Yall blame everyone but Michael for who he chose to have in his circle and his addiction to pain killers. Of course there were a lot of people with their hand in the cookie jar but ultimately Michael is responsible for his life. We all are.

I love Michael, but I hold him responsible for his life, and I'm sure he would agree, and would encourage each and everyone of you to do the same.
 
Charismatic, its not as cut and dried as simply pinning all responsibility squarely with Michael. He is indeed an adult who makes decisions for himself and his life, but I dont think anyone chooses to be a drug addict in life. Michael isnt without fault, but its clear that he died at the hands of someone else.

I would suggest you go back and research the long and complicated history of people who have positioned themselves in Michaels life, preyed on his vulnerabilities and manipulated their way into his inner circle and maybe then you'll have an understanding of just what Michael had to live with.
 
Whatever Joe had up his sleeve... it was surely going to benefit himself too.

Maybe it was the plan to do the Jackson 5 concerts, while at the same time trying to sabotage the O2 concerts?
 
Charismatic, its not as cut and dried as simply pinning all responsibility squarely with Michael. He is indeed an adult who makes decisions for himself and his life, but I dont think anyone chooses to be a drug addict in life. Michael isnt without fault, but its clear that he died at the hands of someone else.

I would suggest you go back and research the long and complicated history of people who have positioned themselves in Michaels life, preyed on his vulnerabilities and manipulated their way into his inner circle and maybe then you'll have an understanding of just what Michael had to live with.


I Second This!!!!!!
 
Charismatic, its not as cut and dried as simply pinning all responsibility squarely with Michael. He is indeed an adult who makes decisions for himself and his life, but I dont think anyone chooses to be a drug addict in life. Michael isnt without fault, but its clear that he died at the hands of someone else.

I would suggest you go back and research the long and complicated history of people who have positioned themselves in Michaels life, preyed on his vulnerabilities and manipulated their way into his inner circle and maybe then you'll have an understanding of just what Michael had to live with.

Your attempt at being objective isn't working. Michael made some bad decisions on who he allowed in his inner circle. Many people don't have very much control of who they work with, unlike many celebrites including Michael. When you deal with venomous snakes you can't blame the snake he's only doing what comes natural. Or get this one, when you decide to hop into a cage of lions and they ravgiously eat you whose fault was it, yours or the lions? (p.s. I don't blame michael for his drug addictions i'm an addict)

I am very sensitive when it comes to michael and in many cases I understand his decisions, the way he sees the world, i understand. I've been naive in many areas of my life as well, but those were my decisions.

To some degree I understand your die-hard, sometimes motherly, defense of him. It's very touching. So don't take my comments as an attack on Michael, because I love him dearly or an attack on you. When I think of Michael and his fans I think of these words :

In Our Darkest Hour
In My Deepest Despair
Will You Still Care?
Will You Be There?
In My Trials
And My Tripulations
Through Our Doubts
And Frustrations
In My Violence
In My Turbulence
Through My Fear
And My Confessions
In My Anguish And My Pain
Through My Joy And My Sorrow
In The Promise Of Another Tomorrow
I'll Never Let You Part
For You're Always In My Heart.
 
Charismatic, its not as cut and dried as simply pinning all responsibility squarely with Michael. He is indeed an adult who makes decisions for himself and his life, but I dont think anyone chooses to be a drug addict in life. Michael isnt without fault, but its clear that he died at the hands of someone else.

I would suggest you go back and research the long and complicated history of people who have positioned themselves in Michaels life, preyed on his vulnerabilities and manipulated their way into his inner circle and maybe then you'll have an understanding of just what Michael had to live with.

Well explained.

An addiction, is an addiction. The person who is addicted (if I may use this term) only wants one thing, what they are addicted to. Yes Michael was responsible for his actions, yet others were also responsible for allowing him to enable his actions. They knew what the man was struggling with, and they didn't so dick all to prevent it, they enabled him.

Michael was warned by certain people about the dangers of using these medications, yet he was made to believe by certain so-called doctors, that there was little risk. He was lied to, plane and simple. Michael figured that b/c they were supossed to be professionals, they had his best interest at heart and they knew what they were doing. Sadly, as long as there were dollar signs involved, that was the only thing they were focussed on.

My mother had an addiction to pain killers, it's a heart-breaking road trying to treat someone who is in denial. She later died of a heart-attack. Was it b/c of her 2 packs a day that she smoked, or b/c she accidently overdozed on painkillers?...still this day, my family and I have no idea.

I hope others realize that people who are dealing with these situations are above all else human, and not the gross image that the media has so garnishly painted them to be.
 
You know, it was hard for MJ to trust anyone. He hired somebody they turn around and stab him in the back. He hires somebody else, same business. He's had so many people betray him he doesn't know who to trust. Look at some of us now, we don't know who to trust. They all seem to be shady. But it seems to be a trend from decades ago. And as cash flow problems increase, and pressure for the catalogue etc. maybe those who extended help also held him at ransom for something. In other words, he couldn't very well completely extricate himself from some people because of the financial hold they may have had over him.

And who knows, maybe that is the exact reason that MJ couldn't sleep after a while. He was so stressed, so pressured, so troubled. Not to mention he was embarking on a venture that his body, historically, can barely handle.

Then you've got the Dr. who have the nerve to tell him that propofol is safe. (although technically, if he is getting a 25mg per night to sleep, it is, technically, harmless). But the fact is the responsible thing to do is administer propofol in a hospital setting. If the responsible party did their job at restricting propofol's access, then it wouldn't even be an issue.

It isn't as cut and dry. And that is why it is important to shake out what was going on behind the scenes. Who was threatening, who was holding who ransom, if so? Was there something more to all of this? And of course, who is the smarty pants that administered propofol in an unsafe setting?

No I don't think he was an addict. An addict to what sleeping pills? He had a dependence to pain killers while he was experiencing pain, and perhaps continued to experience it on and off. But sedatives are a different class and taken for a different purpose. Unless you want to call him an addict all across the board because it is so much simplier than uncovering some real conspiracy?
 
Leonard Rowe was with Joe when they went to Michaels house.
 
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