Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins & Bush /Update Controversy surrounding autographs

[la_cienega]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

Experts can range from about $300-500 per one.

But if enough people chipped in for it, it could be possible among the people who paid, and the expert could do a group of signatures together.

I do think the signatures are suspect enough. One of them being a bit weird would be enough, but they're all the exact same, like someone did them at the exact same time. And that's the oddest part, considering they should've been signed throughout the years.

It's just so sad though, Michael Bush, never saw that one coming.

If they really are frauds then he's ruined some iconic MJ stuff with it too.

 

[ItsALLforLOVE]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

If they really are frauds then he's ruined some iconic MJ stuff with it too.

This is what is sad. I look at the LA Gear jeans and wonder why? I look at the Triumph Tour Off The Wall red pants (not even his design) and yell WHY!!!!!

 

[Rhilo]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

the picture is from Michael's bad era. it's not unusual for people to not think about the publishing date of it. Who would think a picture can be traced of the print time? hundred secrets and a mere carelessness.

It's merchandise, and all official merchandise is dated. MB could have easily gotten away if he had just stuck to the vintage merchandise, and if I'm not mistaken most all other signed memorabilia he sold were vintage.

 

[ivy]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

Experts can range from about $300-500 per one.

But if enough people chipped in for it, it could be possible among the people who paid, and the expert could do a group of signatures together.

It would be harder than that. If you read the terms it requires Julien's agree on the experts. Given that 2 (Frost and Epperson) said the signatures might be fakes , Julien's wouldn't probably agree on them. So then the question becomes who will be the names Julien's agree to and will these experts give the items a "not authentic" determination. The cost of the expert reports seems to be least of the issues here.

 

[loveforever]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

It's merchandise, and all official merchandise is dated. MB could have easily gotten away if he had just stuck to the vintage merchandise, and if I'm not mistaken most all other signed memorabilia he sold were vintage.

The point is most people wouldn't think much on a picture or know what's the bravado, what's vintage, What logo means what. Based on those little details to analyze the date of it. only a few die hard fans do who are passionate about every little details and everything Michael's. I consider myself a diehard fan but I don't know this if i didn't read the informations in here. There are many items in his auctions with similar signatures like this standee. so I wouldn't consider it stupid. I would say it's a mere carelessness of michael bush that got caught by a few MJ fans.

 

[la_cienega]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

It would be harder than that. If you read the terms it requires Julien's agree on the experts. Given that 2 (Frost and Epperson) said the signatures might be fakes , Julien's wouldn't probably agree on them. So then the question becomes who will be the names Julien's agree to and will these experts give the items a "not authentic" determination. The cost of the expert reports seems to be least of the issues here.

Two experts already said they may be fakes?

That's unfair on Julien's then, and I feel considering so many concerns were raised pre-sale, something should've been done to ensure they were good first.

It's merchandise, and all official merchandise is dated. MB could have easily gotten away if he had just stuck to the vintage merchandise, and if I'm not mistaken most all other signed memorabilia he sold were vintage.

If the stands are fakes he probably assumed going through his things that as they were the LA Gear ad they were vintage...

This is what is sad. I look at the LA Gear jeans and wonder why? I look at the Triumph Tour Off The Wall red pants (not even his design) and yell WHY!!!!!

What other big clothing items did he sign?

It'll be so upsetting if he ruined these things. I wonder what value they could possibly have with something like that, essentially graffiti.

It would also confirm my original suspicion that he hadn't been gifted many of these items and likely he was just keeping hold of much of them for him.

I still don't want to believe he really did this...

 

[myosotis]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

It would be harder than that. If you read the terms it requires Julien's agree on the experts. Given that 2 (Frost and Epperson) said the signatures might be fakes , Julien's wouldn't probably agree on them. So then the question becomes who will be the names Julien's agree to and will these experts give the items a "not authentic" determination. The cost of the expert reports seems to be least of the issues here.

There is a way to get free opinions. Offer the item to other auction houses for sale. They will tell you quickly enough if they don't want it (they may not tell you why not). You can get an opinion like this, without actually consigning the item ...you are not committed to sell until you sign on the dotted line ( or the electronic one). You can then write to Juliens and say that x,y, z auction houses refused to accept your item. Juliens might just suggest you re-consign it with them...ie re-sell it. Auction houses expect to see items several times as they revolve around the world. I think someone from (?) Sotheby's once called auctions a 'carousel' because things keep coming back...not becuase they are inauthentic, but because people find they need the money, people die and their relatives sell the items, people divorce ( See the Ronnie and Jo wood auction), etc etc.

NB if you do re-consign via another auction house, there is no guarantee of getting your original price back...Juliens do seem to get some of the best prices for sellers. And you will have to pay 'sellers commission'.

 

[ItsALLforLOVE]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

What other big clothing items did he sign?

I still don't want to believe he really did this...

 

[ivy]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

Two experts already said they may be fakes?

That's unfair on Julien's then, and I feel considering so many concerns were raised pre-sale, something should've been done to ensure they were good first.

Frost and Epperson. But it's important to note that they are what is called "quick opinions" meaning they only use "likely - not likely". However if you check this link from PSA /DNA you would see that they would required to examine the actual item to give a written and certain opinion - http://www.psacard.com/services/auto_authentication_process.chtml

Also it's important to note that allegedly Julien's have said they have video evidence of Michael signing but refusing to show it as Michael was recovering from an operation. If this is true (I'm not saying it is), they might have had no need to pay attention to any concerns. Any video triumphs any opinion being given by looking to a picture.

There is a way to get free opinions.

yes but as I said if you read to Julien's terms of sales that I posted they clearly state "we reserve the right to require the purchaser to obtain, at the purchaser's expense, the opinion of two experts in the field, mutually acceptable to Julien's and the purchaser". So yes a buyer can obtain an opinion in the way you said for their own curiosity but probably it won't be acceptable by Juliens.

 

[la_cienega]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

http://www.julienslive.com/images/lot/115921/0/lot115921.jpg

http://www.julienslive.com/images/lot/116022/0/lot116022.jpg

http://www.julienslive.com/images/lot/115854/0/lot115854.jpg

Why couldn't he have at least signed them inside the clothing?

Sigh.

Also it's important to note that allegedly Julien's have said they have video evidence of Michael signing but refusing to show it as Michael was recovering from an operation. If this is true (I'm not saying it is), they might have had no need to pay attention to any concerns. Any video triumphs any opinion being given by looking to a picture.

Would someone like Virre be entitled to seeing something like this if it existed?

That story doesn't make any sense to me though, why was Bush having him sign all these things right at that time? Mike's having an operation, oh, I know, I'll get him to sign all these things when he's not lucid? And film it just in case? I mean, that doesn't sound right.

But if this stand wasn't created until after his death it would pretty much raise legit questions about the whole auction.

 

[ivy]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

Would someone like Virre be entitled to seeing something like this if it existed?

That story doesn't make any sense to me though, why was Bush having him sign all these things right at that time? Mike's having an operation, oh, I know, I'll get him to sign all these things when he's not lucid? And film it just in case? I mean, that doesn't sound right.

But if this stand wasn't created until after his death it would pretty much raise legit questions about the whole auction.

The story is actually more like Michael had an operation, went to hide and recover in Bush's house and had nothing else to do so signed a bunch of stuff.

Yes the standee can cause some legit questions but not until someone challenges them. Fans seem to think just because they posted it on a blog or a forum it's out there and it's done but unless someone really really challenges this in the correct medium it won't mean a thing.

 

[xthunderx2]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

The story is actually more like Michael had an operation, went to hide and recover in Bush's house and had nothing else to do so signed a bunch of stuff.

Yes the standee can cause some legit questions but not until someone challenges them. Fans seem to think just because they posted it on a blog or a forum it's out there and it's done but unless someone really really challenges this in the correct medium it won't mean a thing.

To be quite honest IF Julians DOES have a video of Michael signing these items then they may just have to fork it over....whether they want to or not. Of course fans don't want to see poor Michael in that state while signing autographs on items...BUT...if these things autographs cannot be authenticated ANY OTHER way I seriously doubt they Julian's is going to want to return the money that they profited from this auction that easily. So imo...IF this video does exist...they are going to want to show it pronto. Michael is gone...nothing can physically hurt him now. ...and IF these signatures have been frauded then MB needs to answer for that...and not be allowed to profit off of Michael for one more second. And IF MB was having Michael sign autographs while he was medicated and wasn't really aware of what he was doing..then again SHAME of MB!! I wouldn't call that a friend I call that a user...and MB wouldn't be ANY different than the rest of the snakes the hung around Michael.

 

[mdiegee210]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

the same ink and the same freshness of the sinatures. Does that mean all the photos were signed at the same time?

 

[ItsALLforLOVE]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

so Bravado has been asked about these standee's and we are awaiting a confirmation from them correct?

A Bravado representative who is also cited in the court transcripts, has responded to two fan emails. You can see them on Richard's site (he has been posting in this thread).

http://mjdatabank.com/mjjnews/wordp...-auction-la-controverse/#.UMOZgbDliaJ.twitter

One is a photo of an email posted on his site, and the other is a link to a photo of another email on another site.

Both basically say the same thing - that the specific standee shown in the Julien's photos were manufactured AFTER the passing of Michael Jackson.

 

[ItsALLforLOVE]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

Fans seem to think just because they posted it on a blog or a forum it's out there and it's done but unless someone really really challenges this in the correct medium it won't mean a thing.

Unfortunately, many fans are still standing up for Bush and Julien's -- which is their right -- but not because they have investigated or have seen facts stating otherwise -- mainly it is because they do not like the messenger who is blasting it from her blog and website and battling with people on Twitter. That is unfortunate, because in this case, she is most certainly right about the signatures. The ownership, that is another matter, but I do believe that the signatures were put on the clothing to assert ownership.

Fans who do want to be proactive in this matter to get answers should respectfully demand answers/explanations/investigations from the people involved:

Michael Lee Bush - ask him on his FB page, his book page on FB, his Twitter
Julien's Auction - ask them on their FB page, their Twitter page, email them
Bravado - email them, ask them on the FB page and Twitter pages
MJ Estate - email them, ask them on their Twitter page
FBI - White Collar Financial Fraud Crimes - FFETF@usdoj.gov
US Attorney's Office, Fraud Section - thom.mrozek@usdoj.gov
Los Angeles County Department of Consumer Affairs - DCA@dca.lacounty.gov


There's nothing that can't be done
If we raise our voice as one

They've gotta hear it from me
They've gotta hear it from you
They've gotta hear it from us
We can't take it
We've already had enough

- Michael Jackson in We've Had Enough

 

[ItsALLforLOVE]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

To be quite honest IF Julians DOES have a video of Michael signing these items then they may just have to fork it over....whether they want to or not. Of course fans don't want to see poor Michael in that state while signing autographs on items...BUT...if these things autographs cannot be authenticated ANY OTHER way I seriously doubt they Julian's is going to want to return the money that they profited from this auction that easily. So imo...IF this video does exist...they are going to want to show it pronto. Michael is gone...nothing can physically hurt him now. ...and IF these signatures have been frauded then MB needs to answer for that...and not be allowed to profit off of Michael for one more second. And IF MB was having Michael sign autographs while he was medicated and wasn't really aware of what he was doing..then again SHAME of MB!! I wouldn't call that a friend I call that a user...and MB wouldn't be ANY different than the rest of the snakes the hung around Michael.

The video still does not explain how a deceased Michael Jackson could sign a standee manufactured after June 25, 2009. Unless there is a Jason Malachi for that too?

 

[ItsALLforLOVE]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

the same ink and the same freshness of the sinatures. Does that mean all the photos were signed at the same time?

I feel they were, but the auction descriptions make it seem like these were signed at different periods of Michael's life around Bush, but the auction signatures never varied much and the pen never varied, which is unlike Michael's signing history where he signed with a relatively similar recognizable signature and with different colors like red, silver, etc. Also, please note how in the Bush MJ signatures, he uses THANKS and Michael used THANX, also I find it interesting how most of the stuff says TO BUSH, why not DENNIS and BUSH?

 

[ivy]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

^^
I would suggest to start small by first contacting the parties and then taking it to law enforcement if needed.

 

[LastTear]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

^^^Ivy, Yes I agree and I don't think there is any point just arguing and discussing amongst ourselves, At the moment this is something else that will just divide the community unless we insist on answers. Either a fraud has taken place and innocent people have been defrauded or an innocent person/people are being slandered.

We need answers and we should work together to find them.

 

[ivy]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

Unfortunately, many fans are still standing up for Bush and Julien's -- which is their right -- but not because they have investigated or have seen facts stating otherwise -- mainly it is because they do not like the messenger who is blasting it from her blog and website and battling with people on Twitter. That is unfortunate, because in this case, she is most certainly right about the signatures. The ownership, that is another matter, but I do believe that the signatures were put on the clothing to assert ownership.

Well you are right that the involvement of Taaj Malik is making this a lot less credible. She started this first by attacking Bush writing a book, she then attacked him for auctioning the items, she then attacked him in regards to the ownership of the items and finally came the attacks about the authenticity of the autograph. So yes a hate fueled person that has tried in multiple ways to attack and hurt Michael Bush is making this seem like an ongoing agenda rather than a legit concern. Plus she's known to attack a new person every month - including us / MJJC - without necessarily knowing the facts. So anything that comes from her is in most instances automatically rejected.

Also the autograph debate was quite interesting. First one of Taaj's minions posted comparison of "showy J's" and "loops of N" claiming these weren't characteristics of Michael's signature. However soon follower fans posted their own autographs and the "showy J" was present in multiple of them. Then the issue became the "loopy N". Then late this week the experts started to post pictures showing legit photographs with the "loopy N". It turned out Michael did that too. So now the "showy J's" and "loopy N" claimed to be not characteristics of Michael's signature turned out to be seen in his signature. However the issue became the frequency of these. The last I saw the experts agreed that you would see this "occasionally" but this was "too common" in the autographs in Bush auctioned items. I also watched fans disagree about what is legit signature or not. Also it was interesting when some experts had issues with Frost authenticated replica "Beat it" Jacket and believed the signature to be fake due to many things including "loopy N" which turned to be a legit item with video evidence.

As a non expert and looking outside person I just came to the conclusion that experts and fans didn't agree, experts and fans could have mistaken legit items for fakes (and vice versa) and what is initially told to be "not characteristics" of Michael was actually could be seen "occasionally".

I said last week that the standee was an interesting and strongest point in this regard. I realize that many are satisfied with Bravado's answer and perhaps I'm being picky but I don't think their answer necessarily addresses a prototype. They can easily rebut their current statement saying "we meant mass production". I have seen a second set of questions sent to Bravado that they became overly protective and silent. Again yes I might be looking into this too much but knowing how the businesses run , it's a lot better to have more definitive and certain statements and cross your t's and dot your i's.

I will definitely include a question to Michael Bush in our upcoming Q&A. We will see if he'll respond or not. Virre is a member here and has bought an item from Juliens, I'm hoping that he /she would try to contact them and see what they say as well. Bravado has long gone radio silent, they don't seem to be answering anymore. Knowing the MJ Estate I would think this will not be something that they would address as they had nothing to do with the auction. I would hold on before I make criminal accusations that I cannot take back.

 

[xthunderx2]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

A Bravado representative who is also cited in the court transcripts, has responded to two fan emails. You can see them on Richard's site (he has been posting in this thread).

http://mjdatabank.com/mjjnews/wordp...-auction-la-controverse/#.UMOZgbDliaJ.twitter

One is a photo of an email posted on his site, and the other is a link to a photo of another email on another site.

Both basically say the same thing - that the specific standee shown in the Julien's photos were manufactured AFTER the passing of Michael Jackson.

Thank you for posting this information. While I understand that a Bravado rep is answering questios about this..what about the OWNER of Bravado...why has he/she NOT came out and defended this?

The video still does not explain how a deceased Michael Jackson could sign a standee manufactured after June 25, 2009. Unless there is a Jason Malachi for that too?

You are correct about that. I myself have issue with this standee. My thing is though...what about the protype...was there one? Did Michael approve of it "before" he passed or not? These are just things I am wondering about. As I said above I am glad we have a rep from Bravado here posting..bUT WHY hasn't the head hancho of Bravado stepped up to defend this? People would be alot more excepting of this if someone from higher up came out and said...YES..this was done "AFTER" Michael passed..."NO ..there was no protype". I am not trying to give you a hard time about this...I just want to make sure it is what it is...I dont know if you noticed or not but I was the first person to post in this thread about my displeasure about these costumes even being auctioned...I STILL dont like the idea it happend but I don't want to call MB a fraud if he is not..thats all.

Well you are right that the involvement of Taaj Malik is making this a lot less credible. She started this first by attacking Bush writing a book, she then attacked him for auctioning the items, she then attacked him in regards to the ownership of the items and finally came the attacks about the authenticity of the autograph. So yes a hate fueled person that has tried in multiple ways to attack and hurt Michael Bush is making this seem like an ongoing agenda rather than a legit concern. Plus she's known to attack a new person every month - including us / MJJC - without necessarily knowing the facts. So anything that comes from her is in most instances automatically rejected.

Also the autograph debate was quite interesting. First one of Taaj's minions posted comparison of "showy J's" and "loops of N" claiming these weren't characteristics of Michael's signature. However soon follower fans posted their own autographs and the "showy J" was present in multiple of them. Then the issue became the "loopy N". Then late this week the experts started to post pictures showing legit photographs with the "loopy N". It turned out Michael did that too. So now the "showy J's" and "loopy N" claimed to be not characteristics of Michael's signature turned out to be seen in his signature. However the issue became the frequency of these. The last I saw the experts agreed that you would see this "occasionally" but this was "too common" in the autographs in Bush auctioned items. I also watched fans disagree about what is legit signature or not. Also it was interesting when some experts had issues with Frost authenticated replica "Beat it" Jacket and believed the signature to be fake due to many things including "loopy N" which turned to be a legit item with video evidence.

As a non expert and looking outside person I just came to the conclusion that experts and fans didn't agree, experts and fans could have mistaken legit items for fakes (and vice versa) and what is initially told to be "not characteristics" of Michael was actually could be seen "occasionally".

I said last week that the standee was an interesting and strongest point in this regard. I realize that many are satisfied with Bravado's answer and perhaps I'm being picky but I don't think their answer necessarily addresses a prototype. They can easily rebut their current statement saying "we meant mass production". I have seen a second set of questions sent to Bravado that they became overly protective and silent. Again yes I might be looking into this too much but knowing how the businesses run , it's a lot better to have more definitive and certain statements and cross your t's and dot your i's.

I will definitely include a question to Michael Bush in our upcoming Q&A. We will see if he'll respond or not. Virre is a member here and has bought an item from Juliens, I'm hoping that he /she would try to contact them and see what they say as well. Bravado has long gone radio silent, they don't seem to be answering anymore. Knowing the MJ Estate I would think this will not be something that they would address as they had nothing to do with the auction. I would hold on before I make criminal accusations that I cannot take back.

I have to agree with Ivy here she has some of the same concerns...the protype..(if there was one or not) and the signature of the costumes.. There HAS to be somone SOMWHERE that can verify these legit or not...because people are just not going to take the word of a 'representive" without documented proof. Here is the US you can talk to 2 different reps about the same subject and get two DIFFERENT answers. I don't mean this as an insult to the Bravado rep that has been posting here...all people are asking for is MORE proof from a higher up.

 

[ItsALLforLOVE]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

I said last week that the standee was an interesting and strongest point in this regard. I realize that many are satisfied with Bravado's answer and perhaps I'm being picky but I don't think their answer necessarily addresses a prototype.

I think Richard above explained well how it would be just about IMPOSSIBLE for a pre-June 25, 2009 -- fully produced and manufactured item or prototype -- would have a BRAVADO/TRIUMPH copyright with TRIUMPH logo on it when any negotiations at the time were with AEG and Bravado.

Also, the court transcripts also show how Bravado met with Michael to show him DESIGNS TO BE CREATED.

In the first email, we do not see Justin's questions to Felix, we just see Felix's responses. In the 2nd email, we see the questions posed to Felix and we see his response -- short, brief and to the point, but one that leaves no doubt that that SPECIFIC standee in the auction was not manufactured until AFTER the passing of Mr. Jackson.

I am open to logic and reason, but the autograph's look more like Michael Bush's hand than Michael Jackson's, and since Michael Jackson was unfortunately not alive when the standee was around, I have to go with a formally unthinkable circumstance, but now most like a reality, that a great fraud was done here.

I am not arguing, just stating my opinion to consider.

 

[ItsALLforLOVE]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

Thank you for posting this information. While I understand that a Bravado rep is answering questios about this..what about the OWNER of Bravado...why has he/she NOT came out and defended this?

FYI. When I say REP, I am not talking about someone sitting on the switchboard or receptionist answering emails. The representative is FELIX SEBACIOUS. He is the Senior Vice President of A & R LICENSING. You can read his testimony in link below which explains his MAJOR role in the merchandising of the tour and after Michael's passing.

http://www.rosespeaks.com/wp-conten...-Estate-Witness-Statement-Felix-Sebacious.pdf

 

[ivy]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

I think Richard above explained well how it would be just about IMPOSSIBLE for a pre-June 25, 2009 -- fully produced and manufactured item or prototype -- would have a BRAVADO/TRIUMPH copyright with TRIUMPH logo on it when any negotiations at the time were with AEG and Bravado.

the only way to call it impossible if we had seen the contract - which we didn't as all of them are under protective order. I understand the AEG- Bravado deal logic but you are ignoring the basic copyright fact that AEG could not have licensed Bravado to use Michael Jackson trademarks - even simple "Michael Jackson" name- because they didn't own it in the first place. I would assume that Michael to be involved in that deal through one of his companies whether it's Triumph Inc or Michael Jackson Company or MJ Licensing. So I would have preferred to know / see the contract and know in what capacity Michael signed before calling it impossible - but seeing the contracts are highly unlikely.

Also, the court transcripts also show how Bravado met with Michael to show him DESIGNS TO BE CREATED.

which was already answered by the Latoya Jackson video and "only two copies" made t-shirts. I know you rationalized this with a "he signed a screenprint" but you have no idea whether that's the case or actually a few copies - prototypes- were made or not? Do you?

In the first email, we do not see Justin's questions to Felix, we just see Felix's responses. In the 2nd email, we see the questions posed to Felix and we see his response -- short, brief and to the point, but one that leaves no doubt that that SPECIFIC standee in the auction was not manufactured until AFTER the passing of Mr. Jackson.

Believe me I'm not the only that that's looking to that second email and asking why didn't he answer each one of the questions. It looks suspicious, so does not seeing the questions Justin asked and so does the latest answer that says "I can't discuss this with you". We;ll have to agree to disagree on this regard.

 

[ItsALLforLOVE]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

We;ll have to agree to disagree on this regard.

That is fine.

The truth seems more suspicious than the imaginary prototype I guess.

If it is so suspicious. Send you own email or call him.

 

[ivy]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

The truth seems more suspicious than the imaginary prototype I guess.

If it is so suspicious. Send you own email or call him.

they aren't answering anymore so I would try my luck with Bush and Juliens.

I hope that people are realizing that we aren't against you. It's just important to get detailed information - if possible - from all of the parties involved in this situation and not rush to accuse and hurt people's reputation.

 

[Petrarose]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

Does this mean that the questionable signatures are to be found on the nonclothing items? There must be a way to test the ink on the items to see if they were manufactured prior to 09--sort of reminds me of a Perry Mason book. A chemist should be able to do a good job on this. This is now the 2nd project with the word "Michael" that is causing some debate. I am not saying there is fraud because I have no evidence, but it seems they will have to prove that the Bravado item was a prototype given to Michael and signed by him.

 

[xthunderx2]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

FYI. When I say REP, I am not talking about someone sitting on the switchboard or receptionist answering emails. The representative is FELIX SEBACIOUS. He is the Senior Vice President of A & R LICENSING. You can read his testimony in link below which explains his MAJOR role in the merchandising of the tour and after Michael's passing.

http://www.rosespeaks.com/wp-conten...-Estate-Witness-Statement-Felix-Sebacious.pdf

I see what you are saying in Mr Sebacious testimony it says that Bravado met with MJ in early June for his approval on 300 items...Michael passed away June 25th only a couple of weeks or so later. HOW could he of signed this standee when he wasn't even "here" anymore. My conclusion is ...He couldn't. There imo..wasn't even enough time to have the producets that he approved made before he died. Even if we want to play Devil's advocate for a minute...lets just say that the standee WAS made near his death..imo I agree..that STILL doesn't mean that Michael signed it. I still just for further confirmation would like to here from the Owner of Bravado...just to seal this deal for me.

 

[Virre]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

Thank you for you suggestions Ivy and the one I got in a PM. I'll contact Bush too and ask when the jacket I bought was signed. The signature looks real to me, but I think I can be easily fooled though.

 

[ItsALLforLOVE]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

I see what you are saying in Mr Sebacious testimony it says that Bravado met with MJ in early June for his approval on 300 items...Michael passed away June 25th only a couple of weeks or so later. HOW could he of signed this standee when he wasn't even "here" anymore. My conclusion is ...He couldn't. There imo..wasn't even enough time to have the producets that he approved made before he died. Even if we want to play Devil's advocate for a minute...lets just say that the standee WAS made near his death..imo I agree..that STILL doesn't mean that Michael signed it. I still just for further confirmation would like to here from the Owner of Bravado...just to seal this deal for me.

Well, as you can see Mr. Sebacious is the spokesman for Bravado, just as he responded for Bravado in the court testimony representing Tom Bennett, the CEO. Bravado is like Microsoft, a large company and you won't see Bill Gates responding about licensing and manufacturing issues.