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Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins & Bush /Update Controversy surrounding autographs

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

qbee said:
I think Not all items being presented are going to be auctioned.
Karen fayes stated Many of these costumes MLB has on display belong to the estate. Most likely on loan from the Estate. I believe these will be returned to the Estate and not auctioned off. Lets not forget many of these costumes also have doubles. MJ had more than one of each costume made. Much of what MJB is auctioning is signed by Michael as a gift to MLB and not an item he was specifically saving to put in a museum.

But in the end the Majority of MJ costumes and wardrobe will end up in what ever museum is built. Once the estate is out of probate and ready to persue that avenue. Many serious buyers are proud to place their items in museums - with "donated by plaques" .. they want them seen and protected - not hidden in their closets.
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Thank You VERY much for this post...it explains a little better about the costumes on loan from the Estate and how MB does not own everything that is on display. And your RIGHT alot of these buyers will want to put the pieces in a museum somewhere, I was so upset about this whole topic because I guess it was more about "WHERE" Michael's clothes were going to end up rather than the money..I know my posts were full of..."well what is he going to do with the other 95%.? But for some reason after reading THIS post here...it gave me peace inside...don't know why..it just did....maybe I was looking for an answer . Not saying that I still like this auction..because I don't..and if I could stop it before it happens...I would. ,,but I can't, At this point whatever Mr Bush does with the rest of the money I have so say over. I do want to state though I still WON"T be buying his book and I am STILL mad at him for auctioning off this stuff..imo...he should still just be putting them in a museum himself.
 
Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

I want to buy this book too,and I was so excited it was coming out,then I realized the auction went with it..What..?? Bush would never do that.. well yah he is...very sad. If the estate cannot buy them back,then we need someone rich like Donald Trump,who was a friend,to buy it all so it can go in a museum. The museum could be in a Vegas hotel,charge a reasonable fee,and part of profits could go to charity. If his clothes go to the 4 corners of the earth,that will be a sad case. Michael wanted a museum. JMHO.
 
Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

I was about to purchase his book but when I read about the auction. There is no way I will buy it.

I am very sad some MJ clothes are auctioned instead of being in a museum....
 
Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

Boggy said:
I am very sad some MJ clothes are auctioned instead of being in a museum....
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These clothes and many other things are so precious items that depict various stages in the career of Michael. Each item has a story behind it. All this in a museum dedicated to Michael would be a treat to fans and to the world. And of course, keeping alive the trajectory artistic of Michael. Sad that all these precious items are being lost. This should not be happening. :(
 
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Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

qbee said:
I think Not all items being presented are going to be auctioned.Karen fayes stated Many of these costumes MLB has on display belong to the estate. Most likely on loan from the Estate. I believe these will be returned to the Estate and not auctioned off. Lets not forget many of these costumes also have doubles. MJ had more than one of each costume made. Much of what MJB is auctioning is signed by Michael as a gift to MLB and not an item he was specifically saving to put in a museum. But in the end the Majority of MJ costumes and wardrobe will end up in what ever museum is built. Once the estate is out of probate and ready to persue that avenue. Many serious buyers are proud to place their items in museums - with "donated by plaques" .. they want them seen and protected - not hidden in their closets.
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Not true Qbee. Michael Bush disagrees. He confirms all those pieces were given to him by Mj and they are all original, not copies. Juliens will not include pictures of pieces in his auction catalogue , if they are not to be sold. That is misleading to potential buyers.Your assumptions are very wrong. You cannot choose & pick when Karen Faye is being truthful or not.

fyi, what Karen Faye insinuated was that estate is hiding behind MB to sell those clothes. Not that estate own & lent them to Juliens.

Which makes ABSOLUTELY no sense..because when you compare the pieces that were shown at FanFest last year & the ones hitting the auction block now, you clearly see the disparity. The MB pieces are far more impressive & valuable than anything that was at the FanFest. And I was there.

If the estate own them...why weren't these pieces in Vegas last year, where ppl were charged $50+ to see lesser known costumes. WHY?

Eta: I find it funny that some are 1) defending this fuckery 2) it took others this long to react. I believe I was hushed when I voiced my concern when this mess was first announced months ago.

ETA2: someone needs to explain if estate is not hiding behind Bush to sell off MJ's costumes, why aren't they going after Bush, like they are doing Tohme & BLS. Tohme & BLS at least have a letter (albeit questionable) to back off their claim, where is MB's letter showing MJ gave him all these pieces? Or should we just take his words for it?
 
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Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

^That's the idea I got off KF's tweets too. That she's trying to lay blame on the Estate. Is she still friends with Michael Bush? I guess she is, and is why she's trying to cover his ass. What will they sell next?

And yes, the clothes that Michael Bush has are among the most iconic pieces of Michael's wardrobe, and it's so sad to see them separated and sold. Who knows when they'll see the light of day again? We sometimes hear of people finding rare, antique art in the attics of old houses after decades of being lost to the world. We - the fans and public are never likely to see many of these pieces again, once sold.

I hope, whoever buys them at least has proper storage facilities to preserve them, especially if they don't loan to museums. Michael Bush himself said how fragile the clothes are and the amount of care that goes into handling. Having said that, he has no respect for the pieces he helped create or Michael's legacy. In the past month, he allowed these very clothes to be worn and used in a fashion show and now he's auctioning them off.

What is the Estate's stance on this? JB may have written the foreword to the book, but are they OK with what is about to happen? It's all so sad.

I will not be buying this book.
 
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Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

Haha, you guys crack me up.
 
Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

i find it very odd that he's selling the clothes. a museum would be perfect!! now i'm not sure it will ever happen :/
 
Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

When I say some will not be autioned off. Im speaking about all the costumes in MLB tour at museums etc. I dont think all those custumes are in the auction book. I believe many of them are on loan from the estate for the public display only and will not be autioned off. I will contact MJB again and aks him and see if he replies.
 
Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

qbee said:
When I say some will not be autioned off. Im speaking about all the costumes in MLB tour at museums etc. I dont think all those custumes are in the auction book. I believe many of them are on loan from the estate for the public display only and will not be autioned off. I will contact MJB again and aks him and see if he replies.
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All of the advertising and literature for this display (in London and in Tokyo) mentions Juliens auctions in association with Michael Bush. There is no mention of the Estate of Michael Jackson in any literature that I have seen. The majority of costumes are the same as those used in the Treacy fashion show, and I don't think the Estate would have lent them out for a catwalk show.
Also, Mr Julien attended the Treacy show. The Tokyo exhibition poster has in small lettering the words: 'approved by Julien's auctions'.

Anyhow, we will know for sure very soon, as the Julien's auction catalogue will be sent out in the next few weeks, so we'll be able to see everything that is for sale then. My belief is that everything in both the London and Tokyo exhibitions will be in the auction catalogue. The exhibitions are the 'shop window' for the sale.
 
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Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

Qbee - have you got confirmation from the Estate that some costumes are lent?
 
Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

Rhilo said:
Qbee - have you got confirmation from the Estate that some costumes are lent?
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This is her assumption. But she is wrong. Estate would never give out MJ's costume for GaGa & others to wear & devalue. Total nonsense in my opinion.

I asked Michael Bush and he confirmed all the costumes were originals, not copies and given to him by MJ. I asked him to support this statement that they were gifts & not put in his care for safekeeping ...he ignored that last question.
with only 5% of the money going to charity, he is misleading fans if he claims hes doing it for Charity. Unless, like the Jacksons, he considers himself a charity case.
 
Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

^I think it's a similar situation to Michael's art - like BLS claiming the art were gifts. I don't know why the Estate is not going after MB, but maybe they aren't because they know Michael really gifted those to him? I'm stumped.
ps...I thought Qbee was female :)


Qbee- if it's an assumption, I think that should be mentioned because your post comes off as matter of fact, and it's misleading. Unless you have confirmation from the Estate, there is no proof that they own some of the outfits or any guarantee most will end up in museums once sold. We can hope, but where they will end up, what will happen to them eventually and whether they will ever be displayed to the public again is not something we can determine.

Over 50 outfits. Most of them iconic. Once sold - they might as well be gone for good :(
 
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Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

Rhilo said:
^I think it's a similar situation to Michael's art - like BLS claiming the art were gifts. I don't know why the Estate is not going after MB, but maybe they aren't because they know Michael really gifted those to him? I'm stumped.
ps...I thought Qbee was female :)


Qbee- if it's an assumption, I think that should be mentioned because your post comes off as matter of fact, and it's misleading. Unless you have confirmation from the Estate, there is no proof that they own some of the outfits or any guarantee most will end up in museums once sold. We can hope, but where they will end up, what will happen to them eventually and whether they will ever be displayed to the public again is not something we can determine.

Over 50 outfits. Most of them iconic. Once sold - they might as well be gone for good :(
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I hope it is OK to quote from MLB's FB page here? Below is a quotation from SS on 16th october 12
My view on the quotation: I think it is very sad that very few are visiting the London exhibition.. especially since Immortal is on at the same time. I know there is some distance between the sites, and I'm sure many more would have visited if the exhibition could have been held in or near the O2....but I guess you have to go wherever there is suitable and available space. This (lack of attendance) is what worries me about the auction...if these items are not of interest to anyone now, when they are all together and Mr Bush has a new book out (and is available at some exhibitions to speak to and maybe to sign books), how will anyone possibly attract visitors to an MJ museum without the added attractions? I know lots of fans attend one or two day fan-fests, but exhibitions and museums have to cover their costs for many weeks / months / years.

SS quotation from MLB FB page, 16 oct 12
'I spoke to Michael Bush here in NYC on Friday and asked him about the idea for a museum and he said that he tried but NO ONE was interested and in fact everyone he spoke to about it did not want to have to deal with Michael's overly fanatic fans such as Forest Lawn has to do, frequently banning fans.
MLB also said that no one comes to see the costumes, the general public is not interested and hasn't been coming to see the London exhibition, only handful of fanatics. Sadly it does cost money to keep a museum and it just doesn't seem to appear to make financial sense to anyone. MLB was very nice and heartfelt and even got teary-eyed on the verge of crying at one point. I feel he is a good person with a very obvious and genuine love for Michael, and I've read his entire book and it is entirely respectful to Michael. Clearly he is still hurting, and this decision of his is hard for me to accept, but I can also understand him and sympathize with him.
 
Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

^No one, including Michael's Estate? I find that hard to believe. Didn't the Estate say they were considering a museum? I understand that costumes alone are not enough - if it's a museum it has to have everything from awards to furniture, the full works. It should also be in a place like Los Angeles, which draws hoardes of tourists, with many seeking and opting for celebrity home tours and such. Last year, Michael's Carolwood Dr home was one of the most requested tourist stops.

The place has to be right, and the museum has to go all out. I don't see how that will fail to attract visitors, and months like June will be peak...

I think MB is just bullshitting. I don't doubt he was very fond of Michael, but greed for money can be so overpowering. Maybe the tears were due to the guilt he felt? If he doesn't have the resources to start a museum, why not offer the outfits to MJ's Estate? Has he tried that?
 
Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

Rhilo said:
^No one, including Michael's Estate? I find that hard to believe. Didn't the Estate say they were considering a museum? I understand that costumes alone are not enough - if it's a museum it has to have everything from awards to furniture, the full works. It should also be in a place like Los Angeles, which draws hoardes of tourists, with many seeking and opting for celebrity home tours and such. Last year, Michael's Carolwood Dr home was one of the most requested tourist stops.

The place has to be right, and the museum has to go all out. I don't see how that will fail to attract visitors, and months like June will be peak...

I think MB is just bullshitting. I don't doubt he was very fond of Michael, but greed for money can be so overpowering. Maybe the tears were due to the guilt he felt? If he doesn't have the resources to start a museum, why not offer the outfits to MJ's Estate? Has he tried that?
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Well, I don't know if we will ever be told whether these were offered to the Estate, and if so, what the reply was. I can't believe that they didn't know and didn't have some kind of offer from MB, as they are the obvious people to offer the collection to. ...and I understand John Branca wrote the Forward to MLB's book, so there can't be any 'bad feeling' from the Estate, as others have already said.

I expect these costumes may have been costing MLB a lot to keep. If they are insured for say $10 million, the premiums on that would be several (many?) thousands of dollars per year. They are a huge responsibility....insurance value doesn't bring them back if they are stolen or destroyed in a fire. Imagine if the costumes had been stolen or damaged while in his hands? I would not like to have that sole responsiblity while the Estate make up their minds whether they are going to open a museum or not, and when and where, and if they even want these costumes. A museum could be many years away.

I would love to see these costumes go into an Estate-run museum, but we may never know what part(s) of this collection the Estate have or have not been offered, and if indeed the Estate turned any offers down.

(As regards the lack of 'general public' visitors at the London exhibition, I am not sure that it has the right 'look' or situation to attract enough people. The Getty gallery is outside the main shopping mall, and is quite a 'sophisticated' looking place, with a sophisticated name. The very large MJ photo display on the frontage, is presumably advertising the Getty photo collection. I think both large photos are black and white; one of the J5 and one of young Michael. Although this is very stylish to look at , it does not really give you a flavour of the exhibition, as the photos have a very 70s feel and the exhibition has much more modern costumes.

I also think that they should have put more than one costume near the window, as it was not really very obvious what else was available to see inside...maybe the helmet and shoes could have been more visible.

I think they also made a mistake with the exhibition pricing, in not having much cheaper or free child entry, as very many shoppers on the day I went there had children with them. )
 
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Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

If the estate want a museum for MJ, they should buy those stuffs from Bush. Simple.
 
Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

^He 'needed' them while Michael was alive. Would he have sold them if Michael was still here? Nope. And there's no proof that all of them were given as gifts or simply for safe keeping.
 
Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

I saw this exhibition last weekend in London. It is stunning, and for a short while I was lost in it all without thinking about this stuff being sold etc. Just beautiful and I thoroughly enjoyed looking around. The other stuff is just too painful to think about...how sad that this collection should be sold. No, I will never understand that.
 
Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

SS quotation from MLB FB page, 16 oct 12
'I spoke to Michael Bush here in NYC on Friday and asked him about the idea for a museum and he said that he tried but NO ONE was interested and in fact everyone he spoke to about it did not want to have to deal with Michael's overly fanatic fans such as Forest Lawn has to do, frequently banning fans.
MLB also said that no one comes to see the costumes, the general public is not interested and hasn't been coming to see the London exhibition, only handful of fanatics. Sadly it does cost money to keep a museum and it just doesn't seem to appear to make financial sense to anyone. MLB was very nice and heartfelt and even got teary-eyed on the verge of crying at one point. I feel he is a good person with a very obvious and genuine love for Michael, and I've read his entire book and it is entirely respectful to Michael.
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Huh...I find MLB explanation hard to believe. I mean really NO ONE was interested in a MJ museum? MJ's name alone makes people money case in point why there's gonna be an auction in the first place. And I don't appreciate the insult to the fans saying no one wants to deal with us? Well, they gonna have to if they want his Estate to be successful or anyone else trying to sell MJ things, just like MLB himself.
 
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Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

Huh...I find MLB explanation hard to believe. I mean really NO ONE was interested in a MJ museum? MJ's name alone makes people money case in point why there's gonna be an auction in the first place. And I don't appreciated the insult to the fans saying no one wants to deal with us? Well, they gonna have to if they want his Estate to be successful or anyone else trying to sell MJ things, just like MLB himself.
 
Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

We dont know that MLB actually said that. he didnt t post that statement.I cant imagine MLB would say such a thing about the Estate or the fans who are supporting these events. he doesnt reallye ven speak that way in such a negative tone. anyway not when I have communicated with him.

I did find the statement from Sandy stadler on his FB, but not sure is she is adding or embellishing or if she even spoke to him at all. I will say the statement she made is ridiculas. (and if MLB really said that. I would take issue with him over it) The fans I see posting who have visited to see the costumes don't seem overly fanatic in their replies on his FB. He always thanks them and compliments the fans who are supporting him.

I went to the Fan event in Vegas where MJ's costumes and memorabilia were on display and I didn't see any overly fanatical fans, like the ones at forest Lawn.. ( WHATEVER that means) there were no disruptions or anything out of the way to deal with at the fan event I attended nor have I heard of such a thing at any event where MJ's costumes are on display. I have addressed her comment on FB that she attributes to MLB and I have also passed it on to him asking him if he will confirm it.
 
Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

qbee said:
We dont know that MLB actually said that. he didnt t post that statement.I cant imagine MLB would say such a thing about the Estate or the fans who are supporting these events. he doesnt reallye ven speak that way in such a negative tone. anyway not when I have communicated with him.

I did find the statement from Sandy stadler on his FB, but not sure is she is adding or embellishing or if she even spoke to him at all. I will say the statement she made is ridiculas. (and if MLB really said that. I would take issue with him over it) The fans I see posting who have visited to see the costumes don't seem overly fanatic in their replies on his FB. He always thanks them and compliments the fans who are supporting him.

I went to the Fan event in Vegas where MJ's costumes and memorabilia were on display and I didn't see any overly fanatical fans, like the ones at forest Lawn.. ( WHATEVER that means) there were no disruptions or anything out of the way to deal with at the fan event I attended nor have I heard of such a thing at any event where MJ's costumes are on display. I have addressed her comment on FB that she attributes to MLB and I have also passed it on to him asking him if he will confirm it.
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I understand that the quotation was what MLB said the museums had said to him...MLB did not say the fans could pose problems, he said the museums said they might.

Perhaps this is just an excuse the museums are making for not wanting to buy these costumes. Perhaps the museums think they are too expensive to buy and keep. Many museums are absolutely crammed with exhibits already, and have storage spaces full of stuff that they cannot even exhibit. All of this storage costs money for the space/ security/ correct heating and humidity, pest control, insurance etc. The cost of the costumes is not just their purchase price but the price of storing, maintaining and insuring them. The Hollywood costume museum (which I think Debbie Reynolds owned) had to close down, so perhaps costumes are just 'too expensive' for 'general' museums to keep. All the more reason for the Estate to buy and keep these, even just for for Michael's children.

(I'm not sure that someone would post an untrue MLB quotation on MLB's own FB page. Perhaps I have too much faith in my fellow-fans. )
 
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Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

I just don't care to believe that anyone would really believe that this just will cost to much to ever make happen. This is Michael Jackson where talkin about here, it would be well worth the cost. His clothes were like no other superstar. MJs name alone positive or negative makes money either way u spin it. More so positive now that he is gone. So what a wasted opportunity if many of his clothes just disappear and not be put into a museum.
 
Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

Today, the book "The King of Style: Dressing Michael Jackson" by Michael Bush was released featuring the massive collection of costumes that Michael Jackson wore throughout his career. Bush, who was Jackson's designer and stylist for 25 years, has compiled the 216-page book which explores the creation of Michael Jackson's famous costumes that were designed by Bush and his partner, Dennis Tompkins, who passed away last year.
However, this may be the last time that all of these Michael Jackson costumes will be seen together. "The King of Style" book is the companion to an upcoming auction in December which will feature the items shown in the book. Many Michael Jackson fans are upset that these items are being put up for auction by Michael Bush. Julien's Auctions in Beverly Hills is sponsoring "The Collection of Tompkins and Bush: Michael Jackson" auction to be held on December 2. An exhibition of the items has been touring the world since May.


View slideshow: 'The Collection Of Tompkins And Bush: Michael Jackson Wardrobe' exhibit





Designer Michael Bush stands next to a jacket he designed for Michael Jackson, October 4, 2012 in London, England.
Photo credit:
Getty Images




Fans claim that Bush is going against his former boss's wishes of putting the costumes in a museum. As a close friend of Jackson's for 25 years, Bush was well aware of Jackson's wishes, according to Jackson's former makeup artist, Karen Faye. One fan on theTeamMichaelJackson website explains: "We have already lost forever all of the irreplaceable and one-of-a-kind Michael Jackson items that have already been sold during the nine auctions since his murder! If we don't stop this now, there will not be anything left for his beloved children or a Michael Jackson Museum in the future!"

When asked by a Michael Jackson fan about the upcoming auction, Michael Bush replied that he wasn't doing the auction for money, but for charity. In the official press release for the auction, it states that "a portion of the proceeds of the auction will benefit two charities, Guide Dogs of America and Nathan Adelson Hospice in Las Vegas."
Julien's Auctions has featured numerous Michael Jackson items in various auctions in the three years since Michael Jackson's death. In April 2009, just two months before Jackson died, Julien's was scheduled to hold the auction of "The Collection of Michael Jackson" featuring items from Michael Jackson's Neverland Ranch. At the last minute, the auction was canceled. Julien's still sells copies of the auction catalogs from that canceled auction. Last year, Julien's held the auction "100 North Carolwood Drive" which contained items from the last home Jackson lived at.
Some Michael Jackson fans hope the upcoming "Tompkins and Bush" auction will be canceled. However, with that unlikely scenario, the best situation that fans of Michael Jackson can hope for is that the collectors who purchase these costumes will one day loan or donate them to a museum so that the public can appreciate them for years to come.


http://www.examiner.com/article/fan...-jackson-costumes-auction-as-book-is-released
 
Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

Sad to see them put up to auction, but we can only hope that next owner is someone who display them to everybody to see.

I didn't have time to check the whole catalogue, but Michael B is selling Michael Jackson sewing machine and Michael Jackson ironing board? It seems that he is going to retire from costume designing job if he doesn't need those any longer.
 
Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

This is sad! What a backstabber!! I have lost interest in his stupid book too. He's not getting my money at all.
 
Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

Everyone has a right to their own opinion and even though I don't agree with this auction, I cant with good conscience judge MLB motives or bash his character over it. But Regardless of our feelings about the auction. His book isn't Stupid, it has great historical value to the legacy of Michael Jackson. Michael's Costumes and wardrobe were works of art and an extension of Michael's artistic visions. MLB is the only one who could write it. I am proud to have it in my collection along with Joe Vogel's Man in The Music.
The auction is only a small gathering of costumes and it will benefit charity. These treasures will likely be purchased by museums, avid collectors and fans so I am positive they will be celebrated all around the world for many years to come. There are many other outfits of Michael' already in museums and around the world on display. I know many of these will join those. Also, the fans who bid on them will cherish them forever. Michael would not want them packed away somewhere. He would want people to enjoy them and now they will be able to.~ MLB
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