Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins & Bush /Update Controversy surrounding autographs

[Bubs]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

In the last Estate-accounting they mention they have items in storages with a worth about 60 Mio. and storages-cost for this items about 1 Mio. So I think the Estate has enough stuff for a museum. But it`s great they get some of the iconic items from the Bush-collection and it will not be sold.

Yes, they have to store Michael's cars (at least few Roll-Royces) and furniture and stuff from Neverland, so no wonder to storage costs are huge.
To display all of the items in one place, seems to require one big place. I keep thinking Neverland as museum, but it seems to be impossible, unless something wonderful happen and the estate can make it as museum.

Maybe if they could build Neverland replica?

To the estate: If you build it, fans will come (from Fields of Dream)
--------------------

Qbee mentioned fan-fest, which I kind of forgot. I checked what they had there and at least Billie Jean, Bad, Smooth Criminal and Gold pants costumes were there, so the estate has those safe

 

[xthunderx2]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

If someone wants to do an inventory.These are some costumes and wardrobe from MJ Fan Fest already in the Estate's possession. Most are doubles of the gifts in MLB posession. They also have his awards his brooches and many iconic pieces/ props ect from his short films

THIS IS IT ..

IM adding more above ^^^ as I find them

Wonderful find...I dont have time to look at all this right now I am on my way out the door to work..I will look at it all when I get home. Thanks

 

[marebear]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

The lady in the picture looks like the actress from the West Wing.

 

[jamba]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

Karen Faye is full of it sometimes I think.
Most of these items were signed "To BUSH", and they were from various times during Michaels career. The way I see it MJ just gave him the items as a gift.
I heard from fans Michael signed literally stacks of photos for them, so why wouldnt he sign and gift things to his friend? I dont believe for a second MJ wanted Bush to safekeep these items for a museum, otherwise he wouldnt have signed them all: MJs been to enough museums himself to know you basically ruin the item if you sign it the way he did (huge) and you fully fuck it up if you dedicate it to someone...
I am glad the estate gets to have some items, but wondering when they will ever put them on display.
Maybe they can put them all in Vegas at the new cirque du soleil show and make that a permanent museum?

I read the auction catalogue and the iconic costumes--the ones with the big price tags, the ones that are most important to preserve--are NOT signed. They are not signed with his signature, they are not signed to Michael Bush. The things that are signed are the items of lesser value, such as T-shirts, costume design drawings, magazine covers, album covers, and some clothing of lesser value than the iconic items, such as jackets, pants. So it is not correct that he signed them all.

 

[mjjmsc]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

an exposition in a museum would be very cool!

 

[Petrarose]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

Qbee your photos gave me an idea. I will develop all my photos from the fan fest and Grammy mesuem and make my own photo book.

Bubs to avoid the cost of a large space to show all the items, the estate could keep the storage, and place some of the items in the exhibit. As months go by, they could begin taking some items in the exhibit back to storage and bring in new ones from the storage, so that when people visit more than once, they have the opportunity to see something different. For instance, I visited the Grammy museum more than once, and some of the items that were there the first time, were not there the second time.

 

[Ashtanga]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

If someone wants to do an inventory.These are some costumes and wardrobe from MJ Fan Fest already in the Estate's possession. Most are doubles of those gifts in MLB posession. They also have his awards his brooches and many iconic pieces/ props ect from his short films

THIS IS IT ..

IM adding more above ^^^ as I find them

 

[Memefan]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

Ask yourself.....Bill Whitten was MJ's designer for years before Michael Bush. Why is it that MJ didn't "gift" him all his costumes like Bush is claiming? I was at the fan Fest ....there were several Whitten designs...lots of gloves & other pre-Bush costumes.

If MJ thought it was important to keep those '80s costumes, why are we so quick to accept Bush's version that MJ didn't care much about safekeeping & gave all away.

His story makes no sense to me.

 

[Petrarose]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

Memefan of course it makes no sense^^. I have never heard any story like this before from other designers--that they have great quantities of their clients clothes and it belongs to them. Michael died so people say what they want. This situation reminds me of people who take care of the elderly and live in their homes; and when the person dies, they take things and go.

 

[loveforever]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

Karen and Michael Bush were friends so I am a bit surprise when she called him out on twitter. I could care less about what she said but her words made sense to me than Bush's. I don't believe Michael would gift that amount of his clothes that he bought from Michael Bush and then gifted Him. It made no sense. A few probably, but that much, Hard to believe. For safe keeping as michael's trusted dresser, seemed to be the case to me. Michael's gone so Bush can say whatever.

 

[qbee]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

Further clarification for the fans, past the fact MLB is gifting some valuable costumes that he owns to the Estate. They verify the fact Michael did indeed generously gift many of his items to others. They state those items are the personal property of and owned by the people who possess them. They also State they have more then enough costumes, fashion accessories and other items to have a museum/exhibition of some sort in the future.

From the Estate of Michael Jackson :

Michael Jackson was always giving items to friends, fans, sick children he visited and others he met throughout his life. As a result, the Estate does not own all Michael Jackson costumes and/or other pieces. Many people now possess different Michael Jackson items, and those items are the property of those individuals; the Estate does not control what private citizens do with their own property. But all of Michael's fans can rest assured that while the Estate may not have every single item ever worn by Michael as a result of his own generosity, the Estate does have more than enough costumes and fashion accessories along with all Michael's other possessions to enable the Estate to create a museum/exhibition for fans to enjoy and to honor Michael appropriately. Any fans who attended the Michael Jackson Fan Fest exhibit in Las Vegas last year saw that. Everything that was part of that exhibition was and remains Estate property and there is more property that was not displayed. Although it is premature to do so now, the Estate looks forward to sharing its future plans with then fans at the appropriate time.

 

[ivy]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

Some people are falsely circulating that there's a "theft" and some items from the cancelled 2009 auction is being sold at the 2012 auction. This is the proof that such claims are false

 

[virginia_woolf]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

I have to admit one thing, gold pants without Michael aren't so impressive.

 

[Ashtanga]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

I have to admit one thing, gold pants without Michael aren't so impressive.

I do not know if you're really sure.... :blink:

:shifty: :naughty:



Sorry for posting the pictures, but I could not resist. :blushing: :fear:

 

[Bubs]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

 

[Vici]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

I havent read the entire thread so forgive me if this have been talked about

I see many fans, especially longtime fans that Michael personally knew like 'Waldo' claim the autographs looks forged. Waldo has been banned from Juliens after he confronted them about the allegedly forged autographs.

This is what these fans say:

"HOWEVER, the autographs are nagging at me...honestly they seem really OFF...I find it almost impossible to believe they would fake autographs...but we'll they DO look fake. I don't normally subscribe to these crazy theories...but it's not Michael's signature, WTF ?! "

"this also shocked me... it's not mj's..."

"TECHNICALLY the autographs don't look like Michael's...whether you like/respect MLB or not that is simply a fact. Even IF they are real, it's still fact they don't resemble any other signatures of Michael ever, which is really strange and I would be interested to know why."

"Justin is banned from Julien's for questioning them..."

" BUT there are 2 incredible points that makes me rant over this shit... 1- fakes autographs on almost any objects 2- fake clothes being sold as real in 2nd hand collector markets (bush didn't care about it even though his own tags were put on them)... So it makes 3 alarm rings bells to my ears..."

" I was just watching the catalogue again, the signatures are hilarious..."

" As for the autographs- I dont know what to say. It's like the Cascio situation- I hope in my heart that they wouldn't dare do that- but something doesnt look right."

" Actually I was just looking back at my autographs and some of all if ours over the years and I do see similarities to the Bush autographs. I THOUGHT I never saw the two loop J before but in fact we do have his signature this way.....never that crazy loop on the N though at the end of the signature."

"I have an autograph w the separation on the J. So ya, X out the whole "J" argument."

Juliens catalog: http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/77/

 

[Nathy MJ]

Re: The King of Style: Dressing Michael Jackson: Behind the Seams of a Fashion Icon

People is saying that the signatures on Bush's items are false. I particularly don't believe that.

 

[ivy]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

I havent read the entire thread so forgive me if this have been talked about

I see many fans, especially longtime fans that Michael personally knew like 'Waldo' claim the autographs looks forged. Waldo has been banned from Juliens after he confronted them about the allegedly forged autographs.

There has been an interesting discussion going on. I have looked to it with interest.

One of the interesting point has been Justin and Sandy - long term follower fans - claiming the signatures to be fakes after they attended the displays and even paid for authographed books from Michael Bush. Seems kinda hypocritical to me.

Actually I was just looking back at my autographs and some of all if ours over the years and I do see similarities to the Bush autographs. I THOUGHT I never saw the two loop J before but in fact we do have his signature this way.....never that crazy loop on the N though at the end of the signature.

"I have an autograph w the separation on the J. So ya, X out the whole "J" argument."

This was one of the interesting and hilarious points in the discussion. Someone claimed the signatures to be fake because Michael had a showy "J". This was funny because although Michael at the later years signed J as one line, in the 80's he had a showy J. Then Sandy posted pictures of the 6 signatures she has and guess what? 3 of them had the showy "J" in them.

"Justin is banned from Julien's for questioning them..."

Not surprised given the fact that they are accusing Julien's and Bush with fraud and criminal acts and advocating making criminal complaints about them. Unfortunately many Michael Jackson fans fails to realize that they need to approach to matters in a civil, rational and calm manner if you want anyone to take them seriously. Otherwise people just label them as "crazy" and ignore them. Shouting with criminal accusations will end with banning and blocking. They are lucky that they aren't seeing slander lawsuits against them.

 

[Nathy MJ]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

I don't know this blog and how reliable this Steve Cyrkin is, but he is saying he talked to Darren Julien about Bush's items and that was his response:

"Darren said that the reason Bush has so many things signed by Michael Jackson and the autographs look so different than normal is that Jackson often had procedures done by Dr. Klein and another doctor (I forget the last name, but I think it started with R), and he would often stay at Tompkins' and Bush's house afterwards to recover. Jackson would be on drugs during his recovery, and they would take that opportunity to give him lots of things to sign."

http://live.autographmagazine.com/f...tId=3524372:Comment:311726&xg_source=activity

 

[zhelva]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

I'm not an expert but after looking at tle list of items being sold (Julien's page) I have to admit the autographs DO look like they were made all in once.

h34r:

p.s. I find it weird they are selling this jacket saying it was worn in the Thriller video http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/77/lot/33823/.. I don't know but I saw the same one in LA Grammy museum and that one looked more genuine to me, it was very dirty and you could see he was actually wearing it by the marks on it; in other words, it actually looked like it was taken directly from the Thriller set...this one looks new to me. I know they probably made more than 1 but I don't know, something still doesn't feel right. Also the signature on the Grammy museum one was completely different from the one Bush is now selling..

 

[Bubs]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

I don't know this blog and how reliable this Steve Cyrkin is, but he is saying he talked to Darren Julien about Bush's items and that was his response:

"Darren said that the reason Bush has so many things signed by Michael Jackson and the autographs look so different than normal is that Jackson often had procedures done by Dr. Klein and another doctor (I forget the last name, but I think it started with R), and he would often stay at Tompkins' and Bush's house afterwards to recover. Jackson would be on drugs during his recovery, and they would take that opportunity to give him lots of things to sign."

http://live.autographmagazine.com/f...tId=3524372:Comment:311726&xg_source=activity

I don't think I'm going to believe that blogger. Why would MJ go to Tompkins & Bush house to recover if he could stay with Klein?
Tompkins and Bush bringing lots of stuff to MJ to sign while he was recovering from drugs! That sounds awful if its true
It had to be very cold person to do such a thing, and I'm not convinced T & B would do such a thing, and I doubt D Julien would say that either.

 

[Vici]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

Ive also seen several people claim that Julien have told fans that MJ signed these autographes when he was "drugged out" after have been visiting Klein and thats why they look forged. Apparently MJ went to Bush home to sign them there, wtf. This is a crazy statment coming from Juliens and is it even true? Did Julien really say that??

 

[zhelva]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

Even if this is true it's disgusting!!!

Why would they take advantage of him like that, giving him lots of stuff to sign?!

 

[myosotis]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

I don't know this blog and how reliable this Steve Cyrkin is, but he is saying he talked to Darren Julien about Bush's items and that was his response:

"Darren said that the reason Bush has so many things signed by Michael Jackson and the autographs look so different than normal is that Jackson often had procedures done by Dr. Klein and another doctor (I forget the last name, but I think it started with R), and he would often stay at Tompkins' and Bush's house afterwards to recover. Jackson would be on drugs during his recovery, and they would take that opportunity to give him lots of things to sign."

http://live.autographmagazine.com/f...tId=3524372:Comment:311726&xg_source=activity

That is a deeply and profoundly shocking thing for anyone to say.

 

[Rhilo]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

^Can we get this confirmed through Juliens? Very disturbing quote and I hope it's not true.

 

[ivy]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

p.s. I find it weird they are selling this jacket saying it was worn in the Thriller video http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/77/lot/33823/.. I don't know but I saw the same one in LA Grammy museum and that one looked more genuine to me, it was very dirty and you could see he was actually wearing it by the marks on it; in other words, it actually looked like it was taken directly from the Thriller set...this one looks new to me. I know they probably made more than 1 but I don't know, something still doesn't feel right. Also the signature on the Grammy museum one was completely different from the one Bush is now selling..

It is not the jacket from the Thriller video. It's the jacket at he wore during the Bad Tour.

One of the jackets from the Thriller video (either varsity jacket or the torn zombie jacket) is gifted to John Branca and is on loan to Grammy Museum and on display.

Here they are selling one of the jackets worn during Bad Tour. For the record in his book Bush has said there are at least 2 copies of the stage costumes. So it's quite probable that there's another one from the tour out there.

 

[zhelva]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

It is not the jacket from the Thriller video. It's the jacket at he wore during the Bad Tour.

One of the jackets from the Thriller video (either varsity jacket or the torn zombie jacket) is gifted to John Branca and is on loan to Grammy Museum and on display.

Here they are selling one of the jackets worn during Bad Tour. For the record in his book Bush has said there are at least 2 copies of the stage costumes. So it's quite probable that there's another one from the tour out there.

Thanks for the explanation, I missread the description...makes sense now..

 

[qbee]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

Ive also seen several people claim that Julien have told fans that MJ signed these autographes when he was "drugged out" after have been visiting Klein and thats why they look forged. Apparently MJ went to Bush home to sign them there, wtf. This is a crazy statment coming from Juliens and is it even true? Did Julien really say that??

Julien didnt tell fans anything .. He told Steve Cyrkin that in confidense. to let him know he was satisfied the autographs were real. he never meant that statment about MJ to go public ..

I don't know this blog and how reliable this Steve Cyrkin is, but he is saying he talked to Darren Julien about Bush's items and that was his response: "Darren said that the reason Bush has so many things signed by Michael Jackson and the autographs look so different than normal is that Jackson often had procedures done by Dr. Klein and another doctor (I forget the last name, but I think it started with R), and he would often stay at Tompkins' and Bush's house afterwards torecover. Jackson would be on drugs during his recovery, and they would take that opportunity to give him lots of things to sign."

http://live.autographmagazine.com/f...n-signing-styles-in-juliens-tompkins-and-bush-
sale?commentId=3524372%3AComment%3A311726&xg_source=activity

Before this story get twisted and turned .. Some background and further clarification.

Steve said other things obout his discussion with Julien in that blog that is not in this one statement alone. Steve Cyrkin from autograph mag was contacted by Tajj Malick stating the MJ autographs were fraud and he decided to contact Julien about her claims. The reason Julien told that story to Steve Cyrkin in confidence. ( I might add) Was Steve contacted Julien about the autographs Stating some fans were calling them fake. Julien told Steve they have confidence the signatures are real and they even have video of Michael signing many of these items when he stayed with MLB to recuperate after some proceedures. So they are satisfied he signed them... but out of respect for Michael they cant publically show that video(s) becuase Michael wasnt looking his best, he was under medication and recovering from procedures from Dr Klien and another Dr. when signing them so that may be a reason why some appear to be different. But he was satisfied MJ signed them. Steve told Julien he was going to start a discussion on his website and Julien wasnt very happy about that. (That was all Steve revealed about his discussion with Julien)

Now from that we dont know if the video was when MJ was having his scalp repaired or other procedures but He probably didnt look and feel his best at that time. That also doesnt mean MJ was in this condition everytime he autographed items. He was just claifying about the video they had. Also some fans are rebuking this info saying MJ didnt go to Bushes after visiting Klein in 2009. But Julien never said these signings took place in 2009. I think was probaly in 90's or early 2000's. Some fans have even found earlier signatures of items signed to Frank Dileo and others that do match the signatures from MLB. (They posted them in that blog) So there is not conclusive evidense these are not MJ's signatures. Michael had many different signatures which makes it more difficult to assess. Taaj Malick is now tweeting to Roger friedman and other writers on the web (saying she has a good story for them) so this may go public. We know many of these fans behind this have a vendetta against the Branca, the Estate and MLB for working with them. I want to believe they are real and so I do hope Julien and MLB have the proof to show they are if it ever ends up on court. I will wait to see All the evidence before judging. I hope you will too.

Edit to add
Also lets not make assumptions that Michael was taken advantage of. He wasnt an idiot and had to be signing these items at various different times. Not all in one sitting or even the same year. Even if he was taking medication during some of it he would certainly know what he was doing to go back and continue doing the same. Please Lets not insult MJ's intelligence or demonize MLB withour knowing all the facts .. that isnt fair or right.

 

[Bonnie Blue]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

This story just sounds ghastly. There's now a video of mj 'medicated' signing all this stuff after being to see klein?? So to prove that they are really mj's autograph they'll have to show a video of a drugged mj doing his signature? Why on earth would mj want to be videoed being impaired like that and who owned this video - bush?, and why did he keep a video like that for years, so he could authenticate his signed items?? I haven't really been following what's going on in this auction, but it seems to be a mess. i agree with qbee you shouldn't judge before all the facts, but it does not sound good.

 

[qbee]

Re: Juliens Auction Dec 2 - The Collection of Tompkins and Bush Auction

Michael lee Bush At Juliens Display Nov 19 -

This is beautiful - Some beautiful closeups and descriptions of the costumes.
Im so happy we have these videos and the book now to record this extension of Michael's art

MLB speaks about how MJ wanted to set his beat it Jacket on fire and how they were goign to do it.
( MJ showed this in TII) "Let it burn" ` MJ