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lil mama ft chris brown, t pain video like scream

You know what, some youtuber thought the 'mama se mamasa mamakusa' of wbss was copied from 'Don't stop the music'. lol
 
wannabestartinsomthin21 said:
Whose hotter? Chris Brown or Michael Jackson? :lol:



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Can i have them both at the same time:wub:
 
Topflux said:
In Michael's videos there are also so many tributes to Astaire and many others so this is nothing new and it's just good for Michael.
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All mixed with his OWN style something sadly missing from today's artists, nobody was saying when Mike was on top that he was the next whatever and Michael wasn't saying im trying to break so and so's record or be better than so and so he was just simply Michael Jackson, can't say that about the current crop of top hitmakers even if i do Heart Chris, :wub: he and countless others always saying they wanna be the next MJ, Michael never ever had to say that even with the obvious influences of Fred Astaire, James Brown and others, Michael just knew that ultimately even with being that influenced he was fantastic enough on his own combined with those influences and that's why he set the bar high enough that none of these kids now can touch or break:)
 
punchdrunklove114 said:
All mixed with his OWN style something sadly missing from today's artists, nobody was saying when Mike was on top that he was the next whatever and Michael wasn't saying im trying to break so and so's record or be better than so and so he was just simply Michael Jackson, can't say that about the current crop of top hitmakers even if i do Heart Chris, :wub: he and countless others always saying they wanna be the next MJ, Michael never ever had to say that even with the obvious influences of Fred Astaire, James Brown and others, Michael just knew that ultimately even with being that influenced he was fantastic enough on his own combined with those influences and that's why he set the bar high enough that none of these kids now can touch or break:)
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That's true and I'm glad you pointed that out. Michael never did say "I'm the next James Brown, I'm the next Fred Astaire, I'm the next this or that..." He talked about those people as his influences when asked, but he never tried to be them or copy them.

I actually get kind of annoyed at this argument that people keep using, saying Michael has "tributes" all over his videos to Fred Astaire and James Brown and on and on. That's not true, actually. Let me draw up a comparison here. Michael has done exactly three references to Astaire in his work. One, in "Smooth Criminal", he pulled the white suit he was wearing from "The Bandwagon" and also, that dancer in the beggining of the clip that goes up and down while walking foward in a crouched position, and the fact that they're in a night club. Beyond that, "Smooth Criminal" is entirely it's own piece of art and has a completely different premis then that of "The Bandwagon". In the Astaire clip, he plays a detective, looking for a murderer, Michael plays himself, having run into this club to escape a bad guy and save all the children of the world from a drug lord, lol. The song "Smooth Criminal" is similar to the concept from "The Bandwagon", but the premise for the video is not. People forget that "Smooth Criminal" is actually a small segment in an hour long film based on a story which Michael himself wrote. You look at the entire film surrounding that clip, and it is totally original and really a brilliant movie. The concepts, the themes, the sets, the characters, etc... Chris Brown or any other pop star today hasn't come anywhere near creating something as imaginitive or interesting as "Moonwalker".

The other things Michael has taken directly from Astaire is the couple of lines from the song "Dangerous", also from "The Bandwagon", "She came at me in sections... The girl was bad, the girl was dangerous." and when he takes his hat and he looks at it and acts like its special, he got some of that from Astaire when he played with his hat , rubbing it with his cuff links, in a film called "Easter Parade". Michael actually switched it up a lot by pretening to pull from the hat and acting as though it were magical. Astaire just handled it as though he were cool and full of pride.

Now, one other video of Michael's could be seen as having taken from another source, and that's "Beat It", which some argue is just like"West Side Story", and it is in concept. Two gangs coming together to fight. The only difference is, instead of killing eachother, Michael makes them come to terms through dance.

Beyond that, all of Michael's videos have been original and unique. From "Can You Feel It", "Billie Jean" and "Thriller" (which is original. The wearwolf theme was nothing like the one from "American Wearwolf in London, and last time I checked there weren't any zombies in that film.), on to "Captain EO", "Bad", "The Way You Make Me Feel", "Leave Me Alone", "Speed Demon", "Black or White", "Remember The Time", "Jam", "Who Is It", "They Don't Care About Us", "Scream", "Stranger In Moscow", "Childhood", "Earth Song", "Ghosts" and even "You Rock My World" is original unless you want to accuse Michael of ripping himself off. So, you compare ALL of that work to 3 instances where you can make a direct link to where Michael might have gotten the idea, and you can't really argue for someone like Chris Brown who, in his 2 year career has already managed to rip off more concepts from Michael then Michael has managed to do from others in a 40 + year career.

Chris has done "Thriller", "Smooth Criminal", "Scream" "Don't Stop 'Till You Get Enough" and "They Way You Make Me Feel", with "Wall to Wall", "Gimme That", this most recent video, "This Christmas" and "Excuse Me Miss". He's also managed to peform "Thriller", wearing the exact same outfit. Now that was a tribute, so that's okay. But beyond that, he's also peformed "Billie Jean" and "Rock With You" consistently on stage, trying in vain to imitate step for step Michael's choreography for those songs, and lets also not forget that Chris wore the exact same "Smooth Criminal" outfit for a performance he gave at, I think, The Billboard Music Awards and he's taken Michael's opening theme concept from the "History" tour and used it for his most recent tour. That's already more, in a two year career, then Michael's taken in a 44 year career.

Now, to be fair, Michael's taken some steps from people like James Brown and Bob Fosse, but the difference is, he's incorporated those few steps into an overall style which is disinct and uniquely his own. The mashed patatoes he does once in a great while, usually whole performings "WBSS", sometimes while doing "Bad", he does one other step from James Brown which I find impossible to describe, but he does it fairly often, yet it looks entirely different from James, much cleaner and tighter. And a few of the poses Michael does, stepping foward while croached foward, pulling his hat over his eyes, can be seen as a direct result from Bob Fosse. Beyond that however, Michael's dance style is utterly original and is immeaditely associated with him when seen. Same for his vocal style. That is a totally original way of singing. He isn't the first to add high pitched yelps or anything to his vocals, but he is the first to make an actual style out of it by peppering his tracks with vocal sounds, such as hiccups, grunts, heehees and hoos. That style is also instantly recognizable as his own as no one else in the world sings like that.

Chris, as I've stated earlier in this thread, hasn't managed to come up with a dance or vocal style which can be associated with solely him.

Just to point out, while its easy to say Michael's taken this and that and made reference to this and that in his videos, he's done far more visually and musically which is original. Chris on the other hand, he's done I think 9 videos already, 5 of which have either directly or less directly ripped Michael off and the rest is just a product of what styles are popular today.
 
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Re: TOTAL SCREAM RIPOFF (tribute?) chris brown, t-pain, lil mama

Cinnamon234 said:
Well I don't think Chris is a good singer either but he is a good dancer and he has a lot of energy. I enjoy seeing him perform. And I never heard him claim he was going to be bigger than Michael and if he did, so what? It aint like that would ever happen anyway so who cares? lol. Leave the kid alone.
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the kid is a great dancer but the reason many people are angry at him is because lets face it....... he isn't original in his videos, i mean ok fine i understand he did a couple tribute videos, but damnn let it go now !! how many more tribute videos do we need?? if you base your whole theme on MJ, what are you left with in originality??! none!
 
Re: TOTAL SCREAM RIPOFF (tribute?) chris brown, t-pain, lil mama

J5master said:
No i've seen Chris dance PLENTLY of times and I'm saying its VERy MUCH influenced by MJ minus the acrobatics. And just because i say he dances like him doesn't mean i'm saying he's dancing as GOOD as him. Impersonators can dance just like him but never as GOOD as him.

And I never said Chris Brown sucks either. LOL I'm on the fences on his abilities as an artist, but at most he's AVERAGE lol

He doesn't have a different style cuz it ain't nothing I've never seen before. People from my high school could dance as good/better than chris brown.

And it's not just the 30's style...it's the design of the suit, color and everything. even mj's dance moves has been influenced HEAVILY by fred astaire at least in that video. The choreography especially. And Astaires stop-go feel in his choreography is VERY similar to MJ's as well.

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wow, you are incredible! you're opinions are so accurate! and i've never seen that video of fred astaire before, it is VERY VERY similar to smooth criminal...good find man!


Chris Brown is incredibly talented, as I think he's the best dancer out (right now). However he is NO WHERE near the status that Mike is on (I think we can all agree on that). He does NOT have a style, however, he is a great dancer. I think with time, he will develop a style of his own. But I can say that, hands down, no one has developed such a unique style as MJ and no one probably will. That's why you have so many impersonator's copying what Mike does. Its almost like Mike created his own style of dance, that is unfathomable.....he's awesome in every way......(sorry for the rant, lol).
 
Let me just add, Michael's original concept for "Smooth Criminal" was to have it take place in a country-western bar and his choreographer, Vince Patterson, suggested it be more like an underground night club scene. Either way, the film itself is highly original, if anyone bothered to read my long ass post, lol.
 
Yes i read it but there's no point in undermining that it was heavily inspired by fred astaire, no matter what his original idea was lol
 
It was, the one segment out of an hour long, highly creative concept which Michael came up with himself, but my point being, out of 3 videos where you can see a direct link to another source, Michael's done 20 others which are totally original. Chris, on the other hand has done something like 9 videos, 5 of which being direct or indirect rip off of Michael's, lol.
 
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within the first 10 seconds of the "lil mama" video, chris brown does a classic michael jackson pose.....lol. but i appluad chris because he's not stealing mike's moves, he gives mike credit every chance he gets. therefore, him dancing like mike only makes mike look better...lol.
 
michael isn't original - if he was he would've come up with all of his moves out of thin air (and most probably required to have been on some very psychedelic drugs). very rarely do you see originality in modern art, especially in the mainstream. fred astaire wasn't original, either (like Mike, he drew from two main sources - from ballet star Beryshnikov, and tap dancer Gregory Hines among many others).

originality + influence = double irony. doesn't make sense.

they're both just amazingly authentic. that's what sets apart the greats from the mere 'professionals'. they know how to use the influences and layer them into their own cake of individuality.

as for Chris Brown, no one here is saying he's anywhere near Michael nor even making him to be some sort of dancing prodigy. his mediocrity is very obvious to everyone here, not in need of a critical breakdown just to make him look even worse - all because you're mad someone famous's dancing like michael.

fan agendas greatly distort balanced and respectful opinions - it's why you have people calling CB "talentless waste", "rip-off", "tribute-act" when most probably the only performances they've seen of his happen to be the tributes posted on MJ boards in relation to Michael!

it's these blatant pre-installed, blind agendas that are really harming our reputation as a community.
 
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Kingofpop2424 said:
They know it's a tribute.
They just wanna talk sh!t. I guess that's what the internet's for these days.



Hollaback.
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ahhh shut it........Chris Brown himself (the artist) is a tribute to MJ...therefore Chris Brown is just another talnetless waste... like many others out there. Spending the money of others to be a tribute to MJ..thats real smart. I hate people who try to force their worthless thoughts on others. Insulting people with saying they talk "****" makes the situations worse and makes your thoughts pointless and stupid.
 
fred astaire wasn't original, either (like Mike, he drew from two main sources - from ballet star Beryshnikov, and tap dancer Gregory Hines among many others).
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You kind of killed your entire post by writing that considering Fred Astaire came around about 30 years before either of those two dancers, lol.

Fred Astaire was born in 1898, and was influenced by Josh and Dinah Barkley, Bill "Bojangles" Robinson, whom he studied with, and somewhat by the Nicholas Brothers, though he was older then they were, and they were considered peers, really. He studied in ballet from the age of 4 years old and in his teens decided to step away from classical dance and focus more on tap and jazz. He was on vaudville dancing with his sister long before he ever appeared in film. He wasn't even in motion pictures until he was in his mid-30s. And Fred Astaire DID have an original style. He brought a grace and a flair and an energy to dance which had never been seen before. The way he moved was distinctive to him, nobody else moved like that. He combined classical dance with tap and jazz and staged original and clever choreography.

Steps don't matter in dance. The human body can only bend itself in to so many directions. So every step has been done in some sense, either as a basic step or done with a slightly different twist on it. It's how you put those steps together which determines your ability and makes for an original style, which Michael has accopmplished and as did Astaire.
 
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No one's 'breaking it down' because they're mad someone is doing MJ's moves. Theyre breaking it down because it needs to be. there are tons of people that think Chris is totally original LOL

Sometimes it needs to be broken down lol

I've seen Chris Brown outside of this board and believe me, he's a WALKING, LIVING, BREATHING Michael Jackson tribute. :lol:
 
I've also seen every single one of Chris' videos and many of his live performances at awards shows. I'm merely making observations on him as an artist. We have to be allowed to talk about these acts in a less then favorable light. We're allowed to do so with Michael, and many fans on a daily basis do so, lol. So why not with Chris Brown? No one is dissing him or putting him down as a person. Just talking about how they think he is lacking as an artist. And of course, since there are opposing opinions, we are going to gives the reasons for why we think what we do. There's little point is stating something sucks and then just leaving. You should explain why you think that, otherwise it just seems like straight up hating.
 
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wannabestartinsomthin21 said:
You kind of killed your entire post by writing that considering Fred Astaire came around about 30 years before either of those two dancers, lol.
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must've read "influenced by" than "influenced" in my mind when researching LOL my bad but still....

Fred Astaire was born in 1898, and was influenced by Josh and Dinah Barkley, Bill "Bojangles" Robinson, whom he studied with, and somewhat by the Nicholas Brothers, though he was older then they were, and they were considered peers, really.
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And Fred Astaire DID have an original style. He brought a grace and a flair and an energy to dance which had never been seen before. The way he moved was distinctive to him, nobody else moved like that. He combined classical dance with tap and jazz and staged original and clever choreography.
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alright, but i'll stick to my authentic vs original argument regarding Mike:

Steps don't matter in dance. The human body can only bend itself in to so many directions. So every step has been done in some sense, either as a basic step or done with a slightly different twist on it. It's how you put those steps together which determines your ability and makes for an original style, which Michael has accopmplished and as did Astaire.
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as your background of Fred is more accurate than what i have read about him, it seems that truly no one had made that blend. but for Mike, many of his moves were taken straight from the likes of Marcel Marceau, Brown, Jeff Daniel - now their inventions are original - but Mike is just so good at implementing them into his own style and bringing it to the mainstream.
 
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J5master said:
No one's 'breaking it down' because they're mad someone is doing MJ's moves. Theyre breaking it down because it needs to be. there are tons of people that think Chris is totally original LOL
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that's my point - who thinks he's original after all of his ass-kissing and praising of MJ? who, in their right mind, would look at Chris Brown and say he's original? my point is there is too much emphasis on breaking down just why he's so obviously inauthentic when no one really argued against it lol
 
arXter said:
must've read "influenced by" than "influenced" in my mind when researching LOL my bad but still....




alright, but i'll stick to my authentic vs original argument regarding Mike:


as your background of Fred is more accurate than what i have read about him, it seems that truly no one had made that blend. but for Mike, many of his moves were taken straight from the likes of Marcel Marceau, Brown, Jeff Daniel - now their inventions are original - but Mike is just so good at implementing them into his own style and bringing it to the mainstream.
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Some of his steps were taken from all of those sources, yes, but just as many of Fred Astaire's steps were taken from the likes of Bill Robinson and many of his steps were basic foundation moves taught in classic ballet, jazz and tap, it isn't the steps which are ever "original", so to speak, but rather how you string those steps together. Marcel Mareau was an influential pantomimist, but he did not invent the art form, and he learned from previous people in that field to develop his own style, taking already established critera and foundation and putting his own spin on it. Jeffery Daniels picked up a majority of his steps from the street dancers already heavily involved in the popping, locking and tutting scene with the likes of Sam Solomon. Most of the electric boogaloo steps themselves are heavily derived from pantomime and tap and in itself, it is hardly a new or unseen type of movement. Popping was even known to exsist prior to the exsistence of the Electric Boogaloos in the late 60s in and around Oakland. Popping was also greatly influenced by locking, which began in the late 60s with a guy named Don Campbell. Locking obviously is also heavily derived from pantomime, and was influenced largely by the robot dance itself. Michael was performing locking and the robot, which is directly decended from pantomime, long before he ever hooked up with Dainels. And it is also known James Brown didn't invent about 90% of his limited array of steps. The mashed patatoes was a popular dance, as was the camel walk, the split, the spin, etc... within the black community, already being performed by the likes of Frankie Lymon, The Nicholas Brothers, Sammy Davis Jr, etc... James Brown, however, brought an energy and an intensity to the dances that hadn't been seen before.

Michael is no different in that, many of the steps he does aren't original, he didn't invent them, niether did anyone he picked them up from, everyone picks their moves up from some place, but what is original is the way in which he executes those steps and puts them with one another. James Brown fell to his knees, Michael spins and falls to his knees. Michael doesn't just moonwalk, Michael moonwalks, spins and then jumps on his toes. Michael doesn't just kick his leg out or thrust his hips, Michael kicks his leg out, does his knees in and out, thrusts his hips and brings his arm down and his hand out. It's the way Michael strings these steps together and the unique grace and pronounciation he puts on each movement that creates a unique and yes, original, style all his own. You instantly recognize when someone is dancing like Michael Jackson. Why? Because he's created a noval brand. There is nothing new about kicking your legs out, thrusting your hips, rolling your shoulders, etc... But there is something new in the way Michael puts them together with one another and the kind of innate speed, grace, fluidity and power he puts on each pose. Nobody had ever danced like that before, with that kind of flair and style and todays acts aren't doing anything which can be associated with them specifically. They either rip yesteryears stars off or simply do what's trendy. Now I can't really blame them, because coming up with your own dance style is almost impossible, as is coming up with your own musical sound and vocal sound. But with the way these kids act, saying they want to be bigger then Michael, as big, this and that, with how cocky they are, you would think they would try a little bit harder. Chris Brown doesn't have anything original. His dancing isn't original, his singing isn't original, his music isn't original, his fashion isn't original, his videos aren't original and his stage productions aren't original. He's just an assembly line pop star. So is Justin Timberlkae, so is Usher, so is Omarion, lol.
 
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well there you go then, i'll refer back to

very rarely do you see originality in modern art, especially in the mainstream.
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originality + influence = double irony. doesn't make sense.

they're both just amazingly authentic. that's what sets apart the greats from the mere 'professionals'. they know how to use the influences and layer them into their own cake of individuality.
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to take an example of a field i know much more about, when it comes to originality you can't get any more original than John Cage.

of course, there's nothing wrong with being just authentic - but there is a difference that should be noted. because i feel as though the term original is being overused whereas authenticity has more of a graded potential to compare artists with.

e.g. Michael Jackson is no pioneer but he is very much more authentic than Chris Brown when it comes to dancing.
 
^ he virtually isn't. i think we've proved that point long after it didn't need to be proven in the first place LOL
 
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I wish the mods would create a section on the forum for unwinnable discussions,Quite frankly they get so boring that they really deserve their own space, as they tends to be ego driven sometimes. imo
 
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speak for yourself, it's not about winning anything. it's a discussion.
 
You're not really getting what I'm saying. Bob Fosse himself said steps don't matter, its style. Michael may not have invented any steps, per say, but he invented a style and a new way of putting those steps together. That's originality, plain and simple.
 
wannabestartinsomthin21 said:
You're not really getting what I'm saying. Bob Fosse himself said steps don't matter, its style. Michael may not have invented any steps, per say, but he invented a style and a new way of putting those steps together. That's originality, plain and simple.
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no i fully understand where you're coming from and i'm agreeing with your every description except your notion that he's original.

to take your style example, it's not as if the borrowed individual dance moves are so isolated on their own that they wouldn't contribute anything to the style when looked at individually. going back to someone like John Cage, his ideas for pioneering a whole new genre of music came about from extremely distant sources. Michael's dancing can be very closely traced back to its influences no matter how it's threaded.

that is of course no way to undermine his genius, natural ability and grace when it comes stringing it all together so awesomely. that's what makes him unique.

but again, he is no pioneer.
 
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