Michael Jackson v. Wade Robson, a new trial to be held

Even when he had kids of his own there was still other children hanging around.
The entire Arvizio family, hung around. There were lots of guests in the Jackson house. People always forget Carrie fisher was like a regular staple in MJs 2000s life. Like that's honestly such a huge thing. She never believed he did anyone harm.


I just fear that there's only so many more of these allegations that come to light before one actually gets accepted.
This is not Jimmy Saville. Two guys that were already in the media, literally at the trial, and they recant their story? What is believable about them? Wade Robson literally dated Michael Jackson's NIECE, what are we even talking about anymore. If someone you'd never heard of came forward than maybe it would be credible but not a Hollywood wash-up or two. I just don't see it and I'm not gonna start to see it either.
 
London, 2019.


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Is there any way you can think of that we can gather together when time comes close and support Michael's lawyers? Writing, showing up in force, billboards, balloons with his names? I don't know what is done. Any ideas?
 
The entire Arvizio family, hung around. There were lots of guests in the Jackson house. People always forget Carrie fisher was like a regular staple in MJs 2000s life. Like that's honestly such a huge thing. She never believed he did anyone harm.



This is not Jimmy Saville. Two guys that were already in the media, literally at the trial, and they recant their story? What is believable about them? Wade Robson literally dated Michael Jackson's NIECE, what are we even talking about anymore. If someone you'd never heard of came forward than maybe it would be credible but not a Hollywood wash-up or two. I just don't see it and I'm not gonna start to see it either.
Yes but not all guests accused him of child molestation, unfortunately there's a lot of individuals who have since claimed that he did do inappropriate stuff.

Surely after this first huge publicity scandal you put an immediate stop to stuff like this.

This is not Jimmy Savile but MJ has already been compared to him.
 
Is there any way you can think of that we can gather together when time comes close and support Michael's lawyers? Writing, showing up in force, billboards, balloons with his names? I don't know what is done. Any ideas?
If you’re not in the court it doesn’t make a difference. If anything, the circus is likely to do more harm than good in a civil case where facts don’t really matter as much.

This is so annoying. Just when you think things are looking up.
 
Yes but not all guests accused him of child molestation, unfortunately there's a lot of individuals who have since claimed that he did do inappropriate stuff.

Surely after this first huge publicity scandal you put an immediate stop to stuff like this.

This is not Jimmy Savile but MJ has already been compared to him.
It's more than it should be, but it's not "a lot". With crimes like these, that's not a lot. And the complete lack of any other evidence besides hearsay and "behavior" is not very incriminating at all.

It's time to just say that MJ was a powerful man and they wanted to undermine and ruin him. Just like Lennon had hanger onners, and Selena, they wanted to harm MJ, even without using a gun. Evan Chandler literally did want to ruin his life. The Arvizios did want a pay day, from wherever they could get it. And Robson and Safechuck seem just as duplicitous and conniving. Just like the Casios, they didn't say anything heinous though, but it's the same tactics of exploitation for gain, it's always two camps, Positive or Negative.

Maybe you would put a stop to it, really you'd never start it. But MJ was a stubborn person and that was his choice. The way MJ was was what made him the astronomical success he was though, and what makes it so easy to root for him. If he didn't love the Earth, Children, singing about good things, would he even be any different than most other celebs? I mean, sure, Janet didn't seem to be as charitable and also had success. She also was blackballed at the earliest occasion unnecessarily so that wouldn't have stopped "outrage".

But You just trust that he did mean exactly what he did and said he was.

Anyway, I'm just gonna put you in the camp of people who believe he wasn't innocent. You're certainly a skeptic. Maybe it's healthy to consider it but your tone is just a turn off. As usual.
 
It's more than it should be, but it's not "a lot". With crimes like these, that's not a lot. And the complete lack of any other evidence besides hearsay and "behavior" is not very incriminating at all.

It's time to just say that MJ was a powerful man and they wanted to undermine and ruin him. Just like Lennon had hanger onners, and Selena, they wanted to harm MJ, even without using a gun. Evan Chandler literally did want to ruin his life. The Arvizios did want a pay day, from wherever they could get it. And Robson and Safechuck seem just as duplicitous and conniving. Just like the Casios, they didn't say anything heinous though, but it's the same tactics of exploitation for gain, it's always two camps, Positive or Negative.

Maybe you would put a stop to it, really you'd never start it. But MJ was a stubborn person and that was his choice. The way MJ was was what made him the astronomical success he was though, and what makes it so easy to root for him. If he didn't love the Earth, Children, singing about good things, would he even be any different than most other celebs? I mean, sure, Janet didn't seem to be as charitable and also had success. She also was blackballed at the earliest occasion unnecessarily so that wouldn't have stopped "outrage".

But You just trust that he did mean exactly what he did and said he was.

Anyway, I'm just gonna put you in the camp of people who believe he wasn't innocent. You're certainly a skeptic. Maybe it's healthy to consider it but your tone is just a turn off. As usual.
I supported MJ through the 2005 trial and always backed him long after his death.

Unfortunately there's only so much I can take of this nonsense that has made me question that perhaps he wasn't as innocent as he made himself out to be.

I'm on the fence , I won't lie. I do not want to believe this , MJ is my idol but as I've grown older, looking back it's very much clear that his behaviour with children was not normal.

Nobody can deny that. I pray that the estate wins this because if they don't, there's going to be a hell of a lot of extremely upset and hurt fans.
 
I'm on the fence , I won't lie. I do not want to believe this , MJ is my idol but as I've grown older, looking back it's very much clear that his behaviour with children was not normal.
You don't have to believe in something. You have to open your eyes. Every accuser since 1993 had a massive lack of credibility. That's a fact.
One thing I didn't like: Michael holding hands with Gavin. Didn't look right.
 
With this case…aren’t they trying to prove his company facilitated child abuse, rather than MJ being a child abuser? One obviously leads to the other but you can rely on anecdotal evidence to get a guilty verdict for child abuse. Surely proving MJJ Productions is complicit is going to be impossible to prove? What kind of pedophile gets his business to provide him kids and cover it up? It just doesn’t make sense. Maybe the judge is an MJ fan and wants Wade in court to make a further jackass of himself.
 
You don't have to believe in something. You have to open your eyes. Every accuser since 1993 had a massive lack of credibility. That's a fact.
One thing I didn't like: Michael holding hands with Gavin. Didn't look right.
This news today made me go watch Gavin and MJ again, the holding hands, Gavin literally looked in love with Michael, resting his head on his shoulder etc.

Not a good look at all.
 
With this case…aren’t they trying to prove his company facilitated child abuse, rather than MJ being a child abuser?
I think so. I wish I had gone to law school all those years ago, I'd have a better understanding of all of this. It's complicated. I think the idea is, WR and JS are claiming that the companies had a duty of care towards the kids and also failed to prevent Michael from carrying out the alleged acts.

One obviously leads to the other but you can rely on anecdotal evidence to get a guilty verdict for child abuse. Surely proving MJJ Productions is complicit is going to be impossible to prove?
That's why I don't understand it. The burden of proof in a civil case is much lower than it is in a criminal case (convenient, isn't it?) and it seems to be all about the volume of evidence but, even so, it still seems like it would be quite tricky to prove.
 
I'm on the fence , I won't lie. I do not want to believe this , MJ is my idol but as I've grown older, looking back it's very much clear that his behaviour with children was not normal.
Nothing about MJ was normal. He was literally larger than life. My case is that it may not have been normal, but it wasn't criminal. Smooth or otherwise.
 
This news today made me go watch Gavin and MJ again, the holding hands, Gavin literally looked in love with Michael, resting his head on his shoulder etc.

Not a good look at all.
Some fans in this forum should go listen to the "case for innocence" podcast. As should the world. Twice now you've mentioned that LWMJ scene, not once have you mentioned that the scene was directed by Bashir. Michael was set up in that scene.

This will go to court and Michael will once again be proven innocent. I have defended him for 30 years. I will defend him for 30 more.
 
Some fans in this forum should go listen to the "case for innocence" podcast. As should the world. Twice now you've mentioned that LWMJ scene, not once have you mentioned that the scene was directed by Bashir. Michael was set up in that scene.

This will go to court and Michael will once again be proven innocent. I have defended him for 30 years. I will defend him for 30 more.
It was edited yes, but still doesn't make it right , it was the wrong approach.

Michael should have never put himself in that situation to begin with.

What happens if Michael doesn't win this time? That's my concern. If they don't win, it's over , his career left in tatters and cancelled by the world. It will be Pop Paedophile Michael Jackson and serial abuse Jackson etc.

I am scared to death this time, I don't want my memories of Michael to be like this.
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It was edited yes, but still doesn't make it right , it was the wrong approach.

Michael should have never put himself in that situation to begin with.

What happens if Michael doesn't win this time? That's my concern. If they don't win, it's over , his career left in tatters and cancelled by the world. It will be Pop Paedophile Michael Jackson and serial abuse Jackson etc.

I am scared to death this time, I don't want my memories of Michael to be like this.
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I kind of don’t care about that anymore. I was worried about Leaving Neverland but the counters have sorted that out in my head. Guilty or not that music isn’t going to stop being played by me. Elsewhere…I don’t know. Every time I think he’s cancelled he bounces back.

His legacy is his legacy, you can’t take that away.
 
I agree there are many plot holes in his story, but that doesn't mean something didn't happen.
The level of proof needed in a criminal cause is much lower. It will probably be difficult finding jurors who haven't already made up their minds. Sometimes these cases get swayed by a personal experience of a juror and they ignore concrete evidence in exchange for feelings.
I think to find someone guilty in a civil case it just has to be plausible/likely that it happened.
That's why you sometimes hear about 100 million dollar rulings. I'm a huge Michael Jackson fan, but I question many things.
Hanging out with children just doesn't make sense to me. Even hanging out with young adults would be weird.
He claimed it was because he missed out on his childhood.
That might be true, but I'm unsure that explains things. Does anyone know if Michael saw a therapist regularly?
I ask because we've haven't heard from them.
I think we'd all agree that his behaviors should have been studied and talked out with professionals.
The plastic surgery, depression, ptsd, obsession with collecting things, and the relationships with children.
He was obviously struggling with a variety of things for years.
No excuse in the world should make sleeping in a bedroom with other peoples children OK. Doesn't matter if it's 100% platonic.
He shouldn't have even been speaking with them on the phone. I've read interviews where he'd spend the entire day talking to kids on the phone. That's weird to me.....
Could Wade and others be lying? Sure.... But so much time has passed... Memories change. A victim can't remember traumatic situations accurately decades years later. That would be difficult for someone without the trauma.
Like try and recall your childhood. You only have short glimmers of experiences. Like instead of remembering an entire birthday party, you only remember the cake or gift. Can you remember just an average day? What about a vacation? Probably very little huh?
When sexual trauma happens, victims often fill in memory gaps to come to terms with things. It's like solving a puzzle. Pieces are missing. For the mind to come to terms with trauma it sometimes fills in gaps that aren't always accurate. It's also easy for others to influence your memory. It's possible Wade and others recall things happening that never happened simply because of questions, conversations, or drawing conclusions. Also please keep in mind that predators often drug their victims. I feel like that's missed on a lot of people. Drugging happens in most cases like this.
I think the statistic is pretty high that like 1 out of 5 people will have their food or drink spiked/poisoned at some point throughout their life.
Many of those people probably aren't aware it happened. I think the statistics also say at least 1 out of 10 people will be sexually assaulted or raped sometime throughout their life. The number is lower among men, but that's because men don't report it as often.
Some of these drugs erase the memory or make it more difficult to recall.
For instance, something like a roofie can make a victim forget an entire day. Sometimes up to 48hrs.
Because of this, a victim could wake up completely oblivious that anything happened. Especially if they weren't raped. For instance, if a victim is molested/penetrated in a way that doesn't cause pain nothing would appear off when they awoke. There wouldn't be evidence unless a drug screen was done. In these cases, that was never done.
Sometimes victims aren't aware of the abuse until years later. Like a kid probably isn't going to realize they are being drugged. That doesn't mean something didn't happen. The victim just had no idea anything was wrong so they didn't pay attention to certain things. In the moment, a victim can accept behavior as loving and caring, but years later interpret it differently. This is because our knowledge of the real world changes. Our understanding of right and wrong changes. Certain things can trigger memories that weren't registered as off/weird at the time.
If someone doesn't know the signs of being victimized in their sleep would they register they were? If they were drugged just enough to sleep through the night would they realize anything happened? Would they register pain with anything other than normal? I myself was victimized as a child. For years, my neighbor gave me sodas that caused me to pass out. It took me years to realize what was going on. Due to so much time passing and drugs likely involved I'll never know exactly what happened. Not knowing haunts me.
I could give you a detailed account of my memories, but I'm sure they are flawed. Times, dates, and specifics would be off. That doesn't mean it didn't happen. I know it happened. It's why I feel for every victim. If Wade and others are truly victims I'm really sorry they went through that. Everyone involved should be in prison. It's soul crushing. I'm not saying Michael is guilty. None of us will ever know.
Absolutely disgusting, the things you insinuate here.
 
I have to agree with all of that.

I love Michael Jackson, he's been a hero of mine for two decades now but his relationship with children, regardless of how innocent it may be, is completely unacceptable behaviour for an adult male.

We shouldn't have to put up with this shit as fans, his incredible legendary work is forever tainted due to these disgusting allegations and trials.

I do not care how much he loved children, he should have been advised to stop associating himself with kids , it was not good for his image at all. Unfortunately MJ was pretty stubborn in that regard.

This case better be thrown out, I'm sick to death of child molestation associated with MJ
There was nothing unacceptable about it. On the contrary! Stop spreading tabloid mantras.
 
30 years of allegations didn't hurt his legacy. And so won't Robbersons lawsuit.
The allegations absolutely hurt his legacy , I can't believe you don't think that they did 😯

There are millions of people out there who think he's a paedophile. If Robson wins this lawsuit MJ will be completely finished.

Some fans are so naive about the situation. If the estate don't win and have to pay Robson and co millions of dollars - it's a guilty verdict and confirmation that MJ was a child molester.
 
What about his formerly impeccable reputation @Hot_Street ?
It’s hanging like a shadow over his legacy, it will not be a mere footnote in history. The damage is real, he even died because of it.
 
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