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Michael Jackson v. Wade Robson, a new trial to be held

Hot_Street said:
HIStory was a success after 1993
This Is It was a success after 2003
to this day Michael is selling like crazy
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Everything has been tainted since 93. , You can't escape anything MJ related without the mention of these bloody allegations.

That's the reality, this sounds awful but if Michael wasn't as talented and successful as he was, his career would have been down the toilet a long time ago.
 
pinballmaster said:
Sometimes victims aren't aware of the abuse until years later. Like a kid probably isn't going to realize they are being drugged. That doesn't mean something didn't happen. The victim just had no idea anything was wrong so they didn't pay attention to certain things. In the moment, a victim can accept behavior as loving and caring, but years later interpret it differently. This is because our knowledge of the real world changes. Our understanding of right and wrong changes. Certain things can trigger memories that weren't registered as off/weird at the time.
If someone doesn't know the signs of being victimized in their sleep would they register they were? If they were drugged just enough to sleep through the night would they realize anything happened? Would they register pain with anything other than normal? I myself was victimized as a child. For years, my neighbor gave me sodas that caused me to pass out. It took me years to realize what was going on. Due to so much time passing and drugs likely involved I'll never know exactly what happened. Not knowing haunts me.
I could give you a detailed account of my memories, but I'm sure they are flawed. Times, dates, and specifics would be off. That doesn't mean it didn't happen. I know it happened. It's why I feel for every victim. If Wade and others are truly victims I'm really sorry they went through that. Everyone involved should be in prison. It's soul crushing. I'm not saying Michael is guilty. None of us will ever know.
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CSA Victim speaking here (who got my abuser locked up for the horrible things he did) Wade said Michael kept him away from Women/Girls, yet he dated his NIECE for a DECADE. Michael's team in 2005 chose Wade (a 22 year old by then) as the first WITNESS. Had Michael molested him, don't you think that Michael would have found some reason to shoot that down or at least delay it? No amount of "coaching" nor "grooming" would be worth the risk of Wade "snapping out of it"

You talk about the memories thing, yes it happens. Playing Devils Advocate here, you could argue that Wade defending Michael in 1993 on CNN as a child could be because he just didn't process it. But in 2005 (2003 also with the Jimmy Kimmel interview) Wade was a grown man who knew CSA was WRONG.

Years after his supposed abuse ended, living in a different country than Michael, who was cross examined by seasoned lawyers on both sides who had decades dealing with CSA cases. Both before his court appearance and on the day he testified, he was heavily questioned and Wade did not budge once, Wade was asked graphic questions heavily and did not budge. Plus with all of the media pressure, Wade had plenty of times where he could have recovered memories from his alleged CSA.

Another opportunity was when Wade asked MJ's team if he could get married at NEVERLAND after the trial, the place where he was supposedly brutally raped and molested at. Wade asking MJ's team for a wedding at Neverland could have finally triggered his memories of alleged horrid abuse. That did not happen. Maybe a few years after the trial, when the media circus had moved on (and when MJ was still alive) Wade recording his lines for a Thriller 25 podcast for promotion in 2007/8, maybe recording his lines he then would have remembered the alleged abuse he went through. That did not happen either.

This isn't like Wade did one interview with CNN in as a child 1993 then vanished from the face of the earth, and then in 2013 went on Today Show as a adult processing everything and came out of the shadows. Wade was out on the front lines defending Michael heavily.

(I haven't even started with Wade lying about not knowing the estate existed even though years before emailing them begging for being a director at that MJ Vegas tribute show, why even lie about that in a CSA lawsuit, tf?)
 
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Hot_Street said:
His reputation was hurt by the media since Bad. But it didn't break him and his career.
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If Robson wins the case, it won't look good for MJ and would signal the end of his music in mainstream. At this moment, Michael is still an alleged pedophile but Robson winning would mean that he is a convicted pedophile. There is a massive difference between alleged and convicted. That is why it is imperative that the Estate get the best legal team and prove MJ's innocence by any means necessary.

I am not going to lie. I am extremely worried.
 
Nite Line said:
If Robson wins the case, it won't look good for MJ and would signal the end of his music in mainstream. At this moment, Michael is still an alleged pedophile but Robson winning would mean that he is a convicted pedophile. There is a massive difference between alleged and convicted. That is why it is imperative that the Estate get the best legal team and prove MJ's innocence by any means necessary.
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100% correct - this is the point I'm trying to make. It is crucial that the estate win this for that very reason alone.

It is 2023, could you imagine someone like Harry Styles being accused of this or say The Weeknd. The cancel culture is in full swing , regardless if you're innocent or not.
 
BuffaloBill87 said:
Child molestation though is probably the worst and most disgusting crime one could make.

Not every celebrity is being accused of that.
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BuffaloBill87 said:
Jonathan Majors and the domestic abuse, Tenoch Huerta with sexual assault allegations. Have gotten a lot more press than anything lately.
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As far as CSA goes:

Justin Roiland of Rick and Morty fame, only they have texts and audio quotes of him being much guilty, and therefore he was cancelled.

Drake Bell got indicted for texting a 15 year old, not knowing she was 15 apparently. And plenty of people are suspicious of Drake texting minors. His career is still plenty huge actually. He's probably the closest case.
BuffaloBill87 said:
Not ranking these things, like it's a contest anyway. Not even interested in debating anymore.
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I'm honestly not worried about this. In the Trials thread several people stated they wanted this to go to trial (and how wade doesnt) because they were confident wade would lose. Hasnt he lost already in the court of appeal several times? After this it's over for him. He has no evidence and will get shredded by the prosecution. So will SafeCHECK. His prior failed attempts will reflect this.
 
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pinballmaster said:
Not every victim is the same. It's possible he was paid handsomely or rewarded in connections
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What connections did Wade gain in the mid to late 00's? Is there evidence that Michael paid Wade hush money on the year of the trial? Michael's image was tarnished badly during the years 2003-2005, A lot of celebrities either distanced themselves from him or criticized him.MJ's connections by 2005 were so vacant he hardly had any. This isn't the MJ of 1995 or early 2009 here. He had hardly any connections. MJ was in debt during these years also.

I am sorry what happened to you, from one victim to another we know what it's like. I am trying to say this in kind words, but its okay to not defend/explain away every one of Wade's actions, just like we don't defend every one of Michael's actions (not comparing them) Sometimes people lie, point blank, no need to "what if" about a accuser who isn't credible. I would advise for you also that other's in this community are going to not respond well to what you post here. Again I understand it's a sensitive subject, but Wade is problematic on his claims on nearly all fronts that he has long crossed the "doubt/mistake" line and is in "non credible" territory.
 
pinballmaster said:
Not every victim is the same. It's possible he was paid handsomely or rewarded in connections to keep his mouth closed.
If someone is victimized, I believe it's up to the victim on how they want to handle that. Some may choose to deny it.
I was in denial about what happened to me for nearly 20 years. Memories can come flooding back at any moment.
Have these accusers been given polygraphs?
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Polygraphs are an invalid means of assessing truthfulness.
 
This explains why #MJInnocent was trending all day on twitter. Seriously give it up, Wade Heard, it's not going to happen. You know as well as everyone else that MJ never fucked you and this is a way to keep your name in the papers.
 
pinballmaster said:
The business of Michael can be more than one person. Sony, the estate, family, shell company, etc.... could have been paying/helping him or his family for years. It wouldn't have came directly from him. We have no way of knowing if he was or wasn't paid. I presume Wade will show proof if he has any.
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Then why hasn't Wade shown any solid proof in the past decade or so? That would be breaking news that Wade's team would want to expose early on.
 
pinballmaster said:
It's unlikely a child can fake a polygraph. I was curious if he was given one back in the day.
There are numerous tests one can use to test for truthfulness. They can be flawed or inaccurate, but passing them would give more credibility to this story. I refused to watch the documentary. Was there a polygraph scene? If I was the filmmaker I would have insisted on one.
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Wade and James actually declined to if I recall years ago. (imo I don't believe polygraphs, they are flawed)
 
What is going on in this forum?... A lot of you guys are acting all doom and gloom... nothing happened as of yet... next month is another hearing from what I've heard... The only thing we could do at this point is pray... Y'all let TMZ get into your feelings, remember what you're dealing with...

I understand, it's exhausting, but we can't give up. We survived that "Leaving Neverland" storm, we can survive this! I always believed Michael's innocence, and not because of his celebrity or his music, but because of the facts. Yes, Michael should've known better from the very beginning when it comes to children. He's human just like the rest of us. It's been 14 years since he went to glory, so all of those controversies are irrelevant to me...

People will talk a lot of smack regardless, so it's best of them block them out of your mind... and keep blasting the music... just keeping praying for Michael's family
 
Carmour260 said:
What is going on in this forum?... A lot of you guys are acting all doom and gloom... nothing happened as of yet... next month is another hearing from what I've heard... The only thing we could do at this point is pray... Y'all let TMZ get into your feelings, remember what you're dealing with...

I understand, it's exhausting, but we can't give up. We survived that "Leaving Neverland" storm, we can survive this! I always believed Michael's innocence, and not because of his celebrity or his music, but because of the facts. Yes, Michael should've known better from the very beginning when it comes to children. He's human just like the rest of us. It's been 14 years since he went to glory, so all of those controversies are irrelevant to me...

People will talk a lot of smack regardless, so it's best of them block them out of your mind... and keep blasting the music... just keeping praying for Michael's family
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Agree.

Also can we move this to "trials and tribulations" This is literally about the trial lol.
 
Carmour260 said:
What is going on in this forum?... A lot of you guys are acting all doom and gloom... nothing happened as of yet... next month is another hearing from what I've heard... The only thing we could do at this point is pray... Y'all let TMZ get into your feelings, remember what you're dealing with...
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Totally agree. I'm very upset about the situation, of course, but this forum is by far the most negative place I've seen anyone talking about this. Yes, everyone is upset for the most part. But no other fan space is quite as negative as this one when it comes to this.
 
I am sort of confused.
I know that this is tentative and not final yet and that the decision can change (which is rare), but I just wanted better clarification because everyone is all over the place and I really don’t trust the media with regards to him.
If they win their appeal does it go directly to a trial or does it just go back to a lower court and the judge can decide if it goes to trial with new information?

The first half would be disappointing and we would have to hope he has enough jurors who are fair and open minded like 2005 and if it’s the latter, it’s still disappointing because it is more wasted time, but I can accept it.

Also to the other posters, yes overtime I have felt the same way in regards to Michael and believe his lack of boundaries and his lack of discernment has put him into many unnecessary and unneeded situations like this.
I also have had doubts at times, but my doubt with Wade came when he tried to avoid giving up his emails and then when he caved he blatantly got caught lying through them with one involving him and his mother.
He put in a story from a tabloid involving his mother and an employee that was later found through his email to be a lie that his mother confirmed.
With James, it was not only the train station, but them also trying to push back the years to fall within that timeline which blows up most of his story.
James also lied about 2005. He said Michael asked him to defend him but he refused because he was a bad man when he did defend him publicly on a local television show hosted by Harvey Levin (yes that Harvey).
In that interview him and his mother denied anything happened and he stated that he hadn’t spoken to Michael in years.
Fans have been trying to get the footage but the station that has it refuses to release it (along with the interview involving Evan and Harvey, yes that Harvey).
Carmour260 said:
What is going on in this forum?... A lot of you guys are acting all doom and gloom... nothing happened as of yet... next month is another hearing from what I've heard... The only thing we could do at this point is pray... Y'all let TMZ get into your feelings, remember what you're dealing with...

I understand, it's exhausting, but we can't give up. We survived that "Leaving Neverland" storm, we can survive this! I always believed Michael's innocence, and not because of his celebrity or his music, but because of the facts. Yes, Michael should've known better from the very beginning when it comes to children. He's human just like the rest of us. It's been 14 years since he went to glory, so all of those controversies are irrelevant to me...

People will talk a lot of smack regardless, so it's best of them block them out of your mind... and keep blasting the music... just keeping praying for Michael's family
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This.
With Michael I’ve learned that nothing with him is peaceful and normal.
He will have a low that’s defeating and then overcome it all with a high.
I know many thought it was over with LN especially because it was in the thick of MeToo only for him to recover.
I think it’s best for many ( and I’m including myself in this also) to officially step away from this and just pray for his family.
 
filmandmusic said:
@Carmour260 i have an excuse i am most likely depressed
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And that's okay... I feel you, I understand too. However, in due time, whenever it may be, you will have to figure out what do I do now? Do I let them defeat me like this, or "Hell to the naw! Y'all ain't breaking me like that! Ain't nobody got time for that!"
 
This shit again!!!!! When will these assclowns just give up and call it a day. Michael was innocent and the estate needs to remain shut tighter than a clam at low tide as far as money goes. Maybe give him $50 to go away.

I think its TMZ lies as its close to his anniversary and they usually dream up some more bullshit or rehash some old lies around June 25th. Remember in 2017 they tried to make a big thing over some art books found in Neverland in 2003 and every media outlet changed it to "Fresh pornography books found at MJ's house" etc and it lasted a day until it went away. Another year a white woman who gave birth to a Black baby, claimed that Michael Jackson's ghost raped her, when in reality she cheated on her white husband with a Black man.

TMZ should be shut down, its just hot lips gossipers rubbing crystal balls dreaming up lies.

They are parasites in black and white as Michael stated.

Fortunately, it has not reached the news here and our ultra right wing Fox like media reports all the rumoured gossip on MJ with aplomb and relish. Their eyes light up at fresh gossip and lies like they are titallated over it.
 
Savv92 said:
I am sort of confused.
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You're not the only one. Right now, I wish I was a lawyer!

Savv92 said:
I know that this is tentative and not final yet and that the decision can change (which is rare), but I just wanted better clarification because everyone is all over the place and I really don’t trust the media with regards to him.
If they win their appeal does it go directly to a trial or does it just go back to a lower court and the judge can decide if it goes to trial with new information?
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"TMZ report explained: Normally, the tentative ruling is sent to the attorneys a day or two before it is made public. More than likely Finaldi leaked to TMZ. Tentative rulings can be changed. Oral arguments will take place on July 26. Estate will argue why this ruling is wrong. Final ruling will come out later. A few weeks to a month probably. If the final ruling is the same as the tentative, more than likely the Estate will appeal to the Supreme Court. SC only hears 5% of the cases submitted, so it's a long shot.If SC hears the case, and rules for the Estate, it's over. Wade loses. If the SC rules for Wade, it goes back to the lower court for trial.If the SC refuses to hear the case, the case will go back to the lower court for trial. If the case goes to trial, we're looking at some serious time before it happens. Possibly some time next year."
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1673661337354878976



"There's some technicality about reversals that would permit up to three years before the trial would need to commence.But realistically I would expect it to take 10-18 months, and this is assuming it reaches that point. Still a lot of motions and arguments to come beforehand."
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1673567338682105856

Savv92 said:
The first half would be disappointing and we would have to hope he has enough jurors who are fair and open minded like 2005
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It's a civil case so it could be heard by a judge without a jury. I don't know how it works. I can't remember if I read that the prosecution can ask for a judge-only trial. I don't know who decides that or why. Also don't know if it benefits either side. But civil cases without juries do happen, afaik.
 
Hot_Street said:
30 years of allegations didn't hurt his legacy. And so won't Robbersons lawsuit.
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It sure has hurt his legacy a lot. - Had this never happened MJ would have been even bigger. The scandale, starting in 1993, had a HUGE impact on his carreer, sales, etc. - So yes, his reputation and Legacy has been hurt a lot, but so far he has survived. But it would be a lot better and MJ be even bigger had it not happened.
 
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