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Michael Jackson's Official Sales: A Detailed Look!

Thanks very much for this list.

I really wonder how well the new album will sell, and how his other CD's will rise in sales due to the interest of the new album, and the MichaelMania it will bring.

I think all his albums will rise a little in sale after the new release, and the fact it's released just before X-mas will urge all sales.
 
In my opinion, the figures posted by SC 05 while impressive, but are not surprising at all. The fact that Dangerous and BAD sold north of 30 million is well documented. All Michael's albums since OTW (except Invincible) are among the best selling is a common known fact.

We all should understand that there is simply no 100% accurate sales figure. It's simply impossible to track. But, we need to consider that Sony Corp (Sony Music's parent company), in fact, is a PUBLIC company owned by thousands of shareholders. As public company, Sony is responsible for compling and preparing fianancial information to the public on a quarterly basis. The financial information Sony prepared is required to be audited by Sony's INDEPENDENT auditors. It's a rule. So, the figures provided by Sony cannot be too far off from the real sales. The stereotype that all these record labels are manipulative dark business owners is not true. Sony cannot "inflate" sales figure to fradulent level.
 
wybt said:
We all should understand that there is simply no 100% accurate sales figure. It's simply impossible to track. But, we need to consider that Sony Corp (Sony Music's parent company), in fact, is a PUBLIC company owned by thousands of shareholders. As public company, Sony is responsible for compling and preparing fianancial information to the public on a quarterly basis. The financial information Sony prepared is required to be audited by Sony's INDEPENDENT auditors. It's a rule. So, the figures provided by Sony cannot be too far off from the real sales. The stereotype that all these record labels are manipulative dark business owners is not true. Sony cannot "inflate" sales figure to fradulent level.
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Please, show me financial reports of Sony with album sales.....

I'll help you, here is one: http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/ar/8ido180000023g2o-att/SonyAR09-E.pdf

There is no such thing available to public or at least shareholders, I guess small shareholders should count...

smooth_criminal05 said:
^ I did the Visionary in unit sales not individual box sets.

And yes I know they are released by Motown.
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Um...so Motown provides Sony with all the information about the sales?


Each single of Visionary collection is numbered and limited to 10.000 copies….so, 20 singles x 10.000 = 200.000 .

But maybe not all singles were limited(?), i only know about limited ones…but still 5.000.000 units is (too) high number considering the fact that you don't see this singles anywhere for sale now, besides the ones on internet auctions…

And how come that Thriller album has sold only 70mil. copies, when according to certified sales (RIAA) album sold in 29million copies as of April 2010 only in US -those are the most accurate sales http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIAA_certification
…but according to Guinness world records album has sold 109million copies?!?…WTF?
 
wybt said:
Actually, I think it makes sense to include the Jackson 5 and the Jacksons sales into consideration. J5 and the Jacksons are part of his legacy. Moreover, Michael MADE the J5 and the Jacksons. He was the reason the group was successful (no offense to the brothers). But, Michael Jackson was the focal point. J5 and the Jacksons wouldn't be where they were without Michael.

However, in the Beatles case, none of the four members soley made the Beatles. The group synergy was very different. The four members together made the magic. As a matter of fact, neither McCartney nor Lennon enjoyed the kind of success Michael enjoyed after going solo.

Since we are talking about record sales here, if we just look at the sales of McCartney's solo records, his sales are nowhere near the sales of the Beatles.
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I kind of agree with you on this one: Michael did make the Jackson 5 and yes J5 and TJ are a part of his legacy.

But I disagree as well: it's very difficult to argue with someone about including J5/TJ into Michael's legacy and not including Paul MacCartney int the Beatles legacy. I'm not so much into The Beatles, but I do know that Paul and John contributed the largest part to the group. And I believe Paul was very big as a solo artist. Not quite as big as the Beatles of course, but it can by no means be neglected.

And no, I'm really not a Beatles fan. I'm just playing the part of the "advocatus diaboli" here...
 
Jan said:
Please, show me financial reports of Sony with album sales.....

I'll help you, here is one: http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/ar/8ido180000023g2o-att/SonyAR09-E.pdf

There is no such thing available to public or at least shareholders, I guess small shareholders should count...



Um...so Motown provides Sony with all the information about the sales?


Each single of Visionary collection is numbered and limited to 10.000 copies….so, 20 singles x 10.000 = 200.000 .

But maybe not all singles were limited(?), i only know about limited ones…but still 5.000.000 units is (too) high number considering the fact that you don't see this singles anywhere for sale now, besides the ones on internet auctions…

And how come that Thriller album has sold only 70mil. copies, when according to certified sales (RIAA) album sold in 29million copies as of April 2010 only in US -those are the most accurate sales http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIAA_certification
…but according to Guinness world records album has sold 109million copies?!?…WTF?
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Thriller has sold almost 30 million copies in the US. Outside of America, sales are 39.8 million which makes the total I listed here. The 109 million figure is UNITS sold from the album. It's not that confusing really, you just have to understand the numbers.
 
Pompous Git said:
Nelson and MJDangerous are more credible than yourself, especially when you've been inconsistent several times over the last few months about the new album. Those guys have sales info for lots of artists as well - all from independent sources too.
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I thought that MJDangerous's figures were pretty darn close to the ones quoted here. I'm not familiar w/Nelson's work, but he had Michael's figures estimated pretty good. I wonder though, if you would add up everything with the Beatles and the four member's solo careers and then w/MJ and the rest of the Jacksons what would the figures be like. MJ's would probably be considerably less, but considering that he makes up a huge portion of the sales from the Jacksons/Jackson 5 that's still pretty amazing in itself.

I also wanted to thank S_C05 for all of these numbers. I have no doubt that MJ's sales will go into the stratosphere in the next decade and continue to do so. It just seems completely unprecedented.
 
redcrush said:
I thought that MJDangerous's figures were pretty darn close to the ones quoted here. I'm not familiar w/Nelson's work, but he had Michael's figures estimated pretty good. I wonder though, if you would add up everything with the Beatles and the four member's solo careers and then w/MJ and the rest of the Jacksons what would the figures be like. MJ's would probably be considerably less, but considering that he makes up a huge portion of the sales from the Jacksons/Jackson 5 that's still pretty amazing in itself.

I also wanted to thank S_C05 for all of these numbers. I have no doubt that MJ's sales will go into the stratosphere in the next decade and continue to do so. It just seems completely unprecedented.
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Well, MJ's sales already are in the stratosphere. The question is, what comes after the stratosphere highs :)
 
loka said:
Is it official ?
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Short answer is...no.

redcrush said:
I thought that MJDangerous's figures were pretty darn close to the ones quoted here. I'm not familiar w/Nelson's work, but he had Michael's figures estimated pretty good.
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They aren't as close as you think - MJDangerous has MJ's total album record sales as 3,343,000 with 3,030,000 unconfirmed sales as per his post on 1st July 2010. Smooth has 292,690,000 (a copy sold is a copy sold without doing the multiple disc thing). That's a huge difference. MJDangerous is widely respected for his figures for many artists - not just MJ, so his track record is proven.

If we break it down further though, MJDangerous has MJ's albums at:

OTW 14,662,000
Minimum estimate - Worldwide: 18,000,000

Thriller 55,244,000
Minimum estimate - Worldwide: 65,000,000

BAD 27,291,000
Minimum estimate - Worldwide: 34,500,000

Dangerous 22,805,000
Minimum estimate - Worldwide: 29,000,000

HIStory 15,602,000
Minimum estimate - Worldwide: 19,500,000

BOTDF 3,649,000
Minimum estimate - Worldwide: 4,700,000

Invincible 5,138,000
Minimum estimate - Worldwide: 6,700,000

Compared to Smooth:

Off The Wall: 22,100,000
Thriller: 69,800,000
Bad: 36,100,000
Dangerous: 35,200,000
HIStory: 20,900,000
Blood On The Dance Floor: 7,000,000
Invincible: 13,300,000

MJDangerous has country by country total breakdown and only works with sales that have been confirmed aka verified. Not those simply reported. MJDangerous also points out what is confirmed and what is a minimum estimate.

Smooth has Making Of Thriller at 9.5mill while MJDangerous has it at 3mill.

I speak with MJDangerous from time to time, the data we present each other usually corresponds.
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Really? The figures above are different and not corresponding.

Another not corresponding:

Smooth has Michael Jackson The Motown Years: 1,050,000 while MJDangerous has it at 248,000 Minimum estimate - Worldwide: 300,000.
 
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wybt said:
As always, his posts are for your information only. He doesn't force you to believe every single one of his words. If you don't believe in Sony's info, fine, go reasearch the sales info from the "so-called" independent sources. But, what he has to gain to inflate Michael's sales record?

I personally appreciate his time for putting this information together.
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How are the figures from Sony? If Sony put the figures out officially, then it's from them. If someone claims to be an insider, they can claim all they want, but it's not from Sony.

I'll quote Simone here:

Sony has got different sales figures. For example, on the official Sony MJ's website is written that Thriller sold 70 million copies worldwide http://www.michaeljackson.com/us/bio and this bio was posted in July/August 2009.

Here you can see the sales posted on MJJSource (the former MJ's official site) updated to March 2005. http://web.archive.org/web/20050312...ent&task=category&sectionid=3&id=67&Itemid=28

At the time, Bad sold 28 million copies.....I don't think that from March 2005 to date, Bad sold 8 million copies.
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It gels more with MJDangerous' figures. BTW, Smooth's figures are being doubted on UKMix now.

This was from WallStreet Journal in 2009 - http://online.wsj.com/article/NA_WSJ_PUB:SB124760651612341407.html

Record labels do inflate sales figures and this has happened to Elvis and Beatles before MJ by their labels.

A unit is an album and single sales combined - misleading as it puts the total cumulative sales onto...er...albums. In 2009, Sony told the WSJ that it does not discuss sales figures - here's a second article from the WSJ where it states that http://blogs.wsj.com/numbersguy/how-many-albums-did-michael-jackson-sell-755/

I haven't counted them, but I don't think Thriller's single sales come to another 30mill or so! The 109mill couldn't realistically have come from albums and single sales together.
 
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Pompous Git said:
If we break it down further though, MJDangerous has MJ's albums at:

OTW 14,662,000
Minimum estimate - Worldwide: 18,000,000

Thriller 55,244,000
Minimum estimate - Worldwide: 65,000,000

BAD 27,291,000
Minimum estimate - Worldwide: 34,500,000

Dangerous 22,805,000
Minimum estimate - Worldwide: 29,000,000

HIStory 15,602,000
Minimum estimate - Worldwide: 19,500,000

BOTDF 3,649,000
Minimum estimate - Worldwide: 4,700,000

Invincible 5,138,000
Minimum estimate - Worldwide: 6,700,000

Compared to Smooth:

Off The Wall: 22,100,000
Thriller: 69,800,000
Bad: 36,100,000
Dangerous: 35,200,000
HIStory: 20,900,000
Blood On The Dance Floor: 7,000,000
Invincible: 13,300,000

MJDangerous has country by country total breakdown and only works with sales that have been confirmed aka verified. Not those simply reported. MJDangerous also points out what is confirmed and what is a minimum estimate.
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At least, atr the end of 1996 New York Post reported that History had 20 mill. sold copies.
Oxford Dictionary of famous people from 1999 mentioned Michael´s Off The Wall with 19 mill. copies.
BOTDF is listed as the best selling remix album with at least 6 mill.
In 1995 during HIStory promo through a special mag in Europe (Popcorn), Dangerous album was presented with 25 mill. sold copies.
During first months after releasing (I think after 3 months), Invincible had 5 mill. copies...

What are you quarreling about?

Only SONY can provide - official numbers, but there are many other accurate sources....
Weirdly, but Sony evidently has no intention to release any official statements about MJs record sales....
 
From the MJJsource.com:

October 30, 2000:
Michael Jackson's 'Thriller' receives its 26th platinum certification from the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA), representing 26 million copies sold in the U.S. It remains the second best-selling album in music history.
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In 1985, it was proclaimed the Best Selling Album of All Time by the Guinness Book of Records. As of July 2001, Thriller has sold 26 million copies in the U.S., making it the second best-selling album in history behind the Eagles' Greatest Hits (27 million). Worldwide, Thriller has sold 51 million copies.
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Worldwide Album Sales Figures
Saturday, March 12 2005

ORIGINAL MJJSOURCE.COM

71k554.gif
 
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Oh boy. How can Michael Jackson's sales turn into such a controversial topic? I don't care which source is more accurate, Sony or MJJSource or MJDangerous or WSJ or NYP or other agencies. None, I mean none, in the right mind can dispute the fact that Michael Jackson is among the best selling artists in the history of recording music.

If one has to scrutinize every sales figure, I guess the Beatles and Elvis' sales figures have to take a write-off as well. I'm no expert in music industry. But, based on what I have read so far, I think it's simply impossible to get sales estimate to laser point precision. It really depends on which source you believe more and each source's accounting method. Who are we to say which source is right or wrong?

SC 05 meant well when he started this thread. It's great to see Michael's success being quantified. But, it truly doesn't matter how many copies of Thriller are sold. I love him and thank God for him whether Thriller sold 1 million, 10 million or 100 million copies.

One thing I know for sure is that Michael's albums will keep selling - good music lasts forever.
 
I'll ask this question again: does anyone know where to find reliable data concerning Elvis/Beatles record sales? I can't find it anywhere but Wikipedia and I don't trust Wiki too much with this.
 
LindavG said:
I'll ask this question again: does anyone know where to find reliable data concerning Elvis/Beatles record sales? I can't find it anywhere but Wikipedia and I don't trust Wiki too much with this.
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MJDangerous has some extremely reliable estimates on their sales as well as some others @ UKMix. MJDangerous has a site, but it's not really working at the moment. I guess he's still in the middle of fixing it...I hope. There's a French music forum that he posts on, but I lost the address to it.
 
LindavG said:
I'll ask this question again: does anyone know where to find reliable data concerning Elvis/Beatles record sales? I can't find it anywhere but Wikipedia and I don't trust Wiki too much with this.
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theres nothing like a reliable source, as for Elvis and Beatles on WIKI, its nonsense, WIKI pedia is definitely not my reliable source.
Some individuals there have overrated them, and dont want to let Michael be "better" despite the facts he is far more successful and better seller than Elvis.

Any change on WIKI in MJs favour is blocked=censored!
 
wybt said:
Could we not bring the fights and arguments from the new album thread to other threads in this forum?

SC 05 is posting on a totally different topic here. The accuracy of his posts related to the new album is not relavant in this topic. It's totally not fair to bash SC 05 on everyting he posts.

As always, his posts are for your information only. He doesn't force you to believe every single one of his words. If you don't believe in Sony's info, fine, go reasearch the sales info from the "so-called" independent sources. But, what he has to gain to inflate Michael's sales record?

I personally appreciate his time for putting this information together.
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DITTO. Thank you SC 05.
 
smooth_criminal05 said:
The 109 million figure is UNITS sold from the album. It's not that confusing really, you just have to understand the numbers.
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Allright, but could you please explain how is possible that Visionary sold 5.000.000 units?

Or maybe i don't get what 'units' are....
They are 20 singles, each of them count as unit, right? Every single was numbered and limited strictly to 10.000 copies...

Sooo we have 20 singles x 10.000 discs( which are units too in that case).
+ 10.000 boxes, empty Visionary boxes.

TOTAL: 210.000 UNITS ?
 
^ There were more than 10,000 boxes made I was told. That was the initial shipment but since more have been created and sold. The box set sold very well in 2009 after MJ's death.

Also, I should note that these numbers include estimated sales in both China, India, and other foreign markets that don't report record sales.
 
smooth_criminal05 said:
^ There were more than 10,000 boxes made I was told. That was the initial shipment but since more have been created and sold. The box set sold very well in 2009 after MJ's death.
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NUmm...strange, as far as i know there wasn't such thing as full Visionary box set, you only got the first single-Thriller in the box and there was version with first 5 singles-i am not 100% sre about the last one...
They were even more sold after 25th of June? Very strange, never heard for anything like that, if there is 5.000.000 discs out, they certainly wouldn't go for crazy prices at auctions & we will be somehow aware of them...


One more thing...
so Motown provides Sony with all the information about the sales?
 
smooth_criminal05 said:
Number Ones: 11,900,000
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Im so happy to see these numbers.. they did everything to sabotage for him by filing the search warrant on the same date as this album got released.. im happy to see how much it has sold.
 
^My source at Sony has the numbers from Motown. Sony has been gathering all of MJ's sales from his first record right through to 2010. They are preparing to launch a more comprehensive list to the public soon (I am told late this year or sometime in 2011). If you've noticed some of this has already been made public on MichaelJackson.com . They affirmed sales of Thriller at 70 million (in actuality it's 69.8 million)
 
Thanks for your response.

No, I haven't noticed that, but you are still avoiding answering my question about Visionary.

Anyway, I believe you someone from Sony provided you with all that information, but please ask your source about Visionary 'album'.
 
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^ I will ask him for sure. I have the list right on my computer and it states 5,000,000 (units) for Visionary so I'm sure there's an explanation.
 
Pompous Git said:
They aren't as close as you think - MJDangerous has MJ's total album record sales as 3,343,000 with 3,030,000 unconfirmed sales as per his post on 1st July 2010.
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The last time MJDangerous updated MJ's album stats @ UKMix was back in March 2010 though. After their initial ban they stopped contributing because of all the drama and then the permaban happened. His/her site is messed up, but I remember they had MJ's confirmed album sales at around 230 million or so. There is a 50+ million discrepancy w/S_C05 and MJDangerous numbers, but his minimum estimates are pretty close w/what SC posted, minus Dangerous, Bad, and Invincible.

I do remember MJDangerous said that they lower the minimum estimates, because there are many places in the world where they don't report sales and some others have complained about this. Sony would only have to go by what they shipped out and even though they aren't truly forthright with their numbers, behind the scenes they should have had a tighter control over their shipment numbers.

Also, PG, the reason they are doubting the numbers is because of the Jackson 5/Jacksons/Motown sales numbers. (Which is what I knew was going to happen when I first saw those J5 numbers.) Anyways, I can see why they do and I was just going to ask S_C about that. Those Motown numbers are incredible. Do the Jackson 5 numbers mean that they were outselling The Beatles at some points? This also means that they, possibly, outsold some other really significant music acts during the 80s when these artists were in their peaks. Then again, the reality is that no one really knows Motown's numbers as they were kept on the hush so how can anyone claim that they are inflated or not? They kept comparing them to the Beatles and they were everywhere and even had their own cartoon. Doesn't seem so impossible to me...
 
idk but motown started releasing jackson 5 in actual cds in the 90's and early 2000's after neilson soundscan started so maybe those sales came from those too and when michael took of with his solo career people bought albums with the brother during the 80's and so on, yeah i wonder about the motown tracking sales too b/c i remember watching a documentry with marvin gaye at the beginning of his career and he was talking about his first record and said he's having been fortunate to sell a million copis of his record and the most he sold was around 800,000 copies during the start of his career, surly motown must have keep track of how much the artist sold b/c at that time selling a million records was the goal for artist to reach
 
Id say, the more records artists sell the much more money the rec. companies have to pay as the royalties..., so they dont want to present the real record sales...
 
^It's common knowledge that the Jackson 5/Jacksons have sold over 100 million units. I don't see the big issue here. The sales for all albums/singles/downloads span from the release all the way up to July 31st 2010. The Jackson 5 material initially sold most of it's units in the US but throughout the decades it has charted well overseas adding to the sales. I don't really see any big shock at all.
 
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