Latest on MJJC

MJ Estate Sues Howard Mann and business partner Henry Vaccaro - Settlement reached

Re: MJ Estate Sues Howard Mann and business partner Henry Vaccaro

Based on the level of these fraudulent schemes between Katherine and Mann, we know that plans/meetings had to begin before Michael was buried. I still do not understand why Katherine signed that paper stating she is the owner of those materials. I could understand Joe signing because he was the boys' manager, but how did Katherine become part of this business. She was mainly the stay at home mother while Joe and the boys went touring and went out to make a living. How come after Michael's death she became owner of these assets and attempting to sell her son's rights to crooks?
 
Re: MJ Estate Sues Howard Mann and business partner Henry Vaccaro

loveforever said:
What a mess. I will never understand those conspiracists(family fans) wanted the Jacksons to control michael's estate, that will be the huge disaster and a suicide act. Thank god Michael knew his business better. The estate provided Katherine a fancy rich life and spent tens of millions dollars on her and children, it's still not enough to her. she kept making shady deals to earn some quick bucks and brought troubles to the estate. Doesnt it sound so familiar? When Michael was alive he paid the Jacksons living and fed the whole family but it's not enough. they brought shady deals or signed fishy contracts to give Michael troubles and lawsuits. Nothing changed. I am sorry for Michael. His name shouldn't be put in the same sentence with the scumbag porn producer.
Click to expand...


Remember, the lioness has to feed her cubs.
 
Re: MJ Estate Sues Howard Mann and business partner Henry Vaccaro

Petrarose said:
Based on the level of these fraudulent schemes between Katherine and Mann, we know that plans/meetings had to begin before Michael was buried. I still do not understand why Katherine signed that paper stating she is the owner of those materials. I could understand Joe signing because he was the boys' manager, but how did Katherine become part of this business. She was mainly the stay at home mother while Joe and the boys went touring and went out to make a living. How come after Michael's death she became owner of these assets and attempting to sell her son's rights to crooks?
Click to expand...

In my opinion Katherine is their secret weapon. They always put her out front when they want to get away with double dealing. If they get caught they claim she is old and doesn't understand what she is doing.
 
Re: MJ Estate Sues Howard Mann and business partner Henry Vaccaro

Petrarose said:
Based on the level of these fraudulent schemes between Katherine and Mann, we know that plans/meetings had to begin before Michael was buried. I still do not understand why Katherine signed that paper stating she is the owner of those materials. I could understand Joe signing because he was the boys' manager, but how did Katherine become part of this business. She was mainly the stay at home mother while Joe and the boys went touring and went out to make a living. How come after Michael's death she became owner of these assets and attempting to sell her son's rights to crooks?
Click to expand...

Probably they thought that with Katherine's name the bus.would look more legit. And maybe they had a point. Her image was of a nice lady, a loving motherand (like you say) wasn't involved in any business. But more important, Michael told the world shewas a saint. Who would doubt that?
I understand parents want their children (no matter theage) to have the best and if they could dosomething to make it happen they would do it. But it is then when thechildren have to step up and said, you did enough. now we have to do it on ourown. But seems the J brothers don't have any integrity and they will continue tocover their greed with their brotherly love.
 
Re: MJ Estate Sues Howard Mann and business partner Henry Vaccaro

ivy said:
You mean relevant?

Like I said the masters were in the storage and now in Vaccaro's possession. There's I think close to 200 songs - all recorded and played on the show- multiple takes, alternative mixes and so on. Vintage Pop has a music company and have plans to release it.
Click to expand...


Yes i meant to write relevant lol sorry i always have a habit of misspelling lol


oh oh so the estate are trying to stop that footage from being released from vintage pop?
 
Re: MJ Estate Sues Howard Mann and business partner Henry Vaccaro

elusive moonwalker said:
thanks ivy. yeah i was just going to say you would think cbs would have something to say about this as personally i would presume they would own the rights to the shows.
Click to expand...

Yes. And if that's the case, then CBS could end up filing their own lawsuit against Mann and Vacarro, in my opinion.
 
Last edited:
Re: MJ Estate Sues Howard Mann and business partner Henry Vaccaro

loveforever said:
What a mess. I will never understand those conspiracists(family fans) wanted the Jacksons to control michael's estate, that will be the huge disaster and a suicide act. Thank god Michael knew his business better. The estate provided Katherine a fancy rich life and spent tens of millions dollars on her and children, it's still not enough to her. she kept making shady deals to earn some quick bucks and brought troubles to the estate. Doesnt it sound so familiar? When Michael was alive he paid the Jacksons living and fed the whole family but it's not enough. they brought shady deals or signed fishy contracts to give Michael troubles and lawsuits. Nothing changed. I am sorry for Michael. His name shouldn't be put in the same sentence with the scumbag porn producer.
Click to expand...

The bolded part remind me of an interview that Katherine gave a while ago.
In a recent interview from the Michael Jackson Secret Vault, Katherine says, "All these lawyers that are involved in Michael's business since he passed -- there's a lot of them -- I think they're trying to create different lawsuits and things because they're greedy and they want to get paid."

Trying to create lawsuits! To be brutally honest, many of them lawsuits are results of their own doings and the estate have to what they have to do in order to protect Michael and his business. If Katherine and Co were to run the estate, there would be no money for the kids, nor money to pay loans. They would have given rights to exploit Michael to anyone who pays directly to them.Just like they are doing now with Mann.

As for bolded part, its good to look at the man/woman it the mirror every now and then.
 
Last edited:
Re: MJ Estate Sues Howard Mann and business partner Henry Vaccaro

The Jacksons have an 'us against the world' mentality and Katherine seems to really believe that her family are sheep among the wolves. The problem is that they are more like dogs sleeping with fleas.
 
Re: MJ Estate Sues Howard Mann and business partner Henry Vaccaro

Bubs said:
The bolded part remind me of an interview that Katherine gave a while ago.
In a recent interview from the Michael Jackson Secret Vault, Katherine says, "All these lawyers that are involved in Michael's business since he passed -- there's a lot of them -- I think they're trying to create different lawsuits and things because they're greedy and they want to get paid."

Trying to create lawsuits! To be brutally honest, many of them lawsuits are results of their own doings and the estate have to what they have to do in order to protect Michael and his business. If Katherine and Co were to run the estate, there would be no money for the kids, nor money to pay loans. They would have given rights to exploit Michael to anyone who pays directly to them.Just like they are doing now with Mann.

As for bolded part, its good to look at the man/woman it the mirror every now and then.
Click to expand...

jackson mentality. they blame everyone but themselves. they would never look in the mirror cause they live in denial from joe and kjs fake anniversary parties to kj claiming all of deadbeat sons are great dads to calling mj a druggie as the reason he kept away. its all about image and protraying the family as victims who can do no wrong .the majority of the lawsuits the estate lawyers are having to deal with were created by the jacksons and their biz partners.
 
Re: MJ Estate Sues Howard Mann and business partner Henry Vaccaro

Bonnie Blue said:
The wheeling and dealing started immediately. What with jermaine appearing with thome at the hospital on 25 june and in the days following pushing for mj to be buried at colony captial controlled neverland, the appointment of lawyers a couple of days after death for mrs j to take control of the estate. I don't think joe's declaration at BET on the sunday after of a new record company was totally random - he knew mj had unreleased music and wasn't under contract to sony and so was probably making sure he was in pole position to control the new music.



Lol, i remember jackson communications - i think it was first set up by jermaine for that jackson family honours in 1994 that ended in a 3 yr lawsuit as none of the crew of the prod company hired to put on the event got paid. So the memorabilia supposedly stored to use in these restaurants included soiled underwear and sex aids - slightly unusual decoration.

Thanks ivy for looking over these docs.
Click to expand...

I understand Jermaine and Joe, as what else would you expect from them? They are doing what they've been doing years, but Katherine too? Mother, that Michael called an angel? Is she totally heartless or does she think if Michael is gone, but she still has other children to support so she has to make money any means possible?

About the latter part of your post- lol.
I have to wonder why those "slightly unusual decoration" items even ended up for storage? Why weren't they thrown out, or wash the first item and put it in the drawer, next item, Janet should keep her stuff in her drawer:)
 
Re: MJ Estate Sues Howard Mann and business partner Henry Vaccaro

elusive moonwalker said:
jackson mentality. they blame everyone but themselves. they would never look in the mirror cause they live in denial from joe and kjs fake anniversary parties to kj claiming all of deadbeat sons are great dads to calling mj a druggie as the reason he kept away. its all about image and protraying the family as victims who can do no wrong .the majority of the lawsuits the estate lawyers are having to deal with were created by the jacksons and their biz partners.
Click to expand...

You are right. I was reading an old articles about Jackson communications, and came across with statement from Jermaine that goes with what you just posted:
---------
Jermaine Jackson, executive producer of the show and president of Jackson Communications Inc., said he had not seen a copy of the suit, but denied the allegations.

"For Gary Smith to sue us is unjust and unfair," Jackson said. "For him to say we are arrogant is very unprofessional. But what's new? It's just another dagger being thrown at the Jacksons in public."
-------------
 
Re: MJ Estate Sues Howard Mann and business partner Henry Vaccaro

^ I was doing the same, i wanted to know about the jackson honours show. That statement you bolded just made me smh. The prod company hadn't been paid for putting on the show and so were understandably sueing the jacksons who had run up 10s and 10s of $000s in expenses at their hotel - basically having a huge party at this company;s expense. For jermaine to say it's another dagger was just so staggeringly ignorant as he was referring to the child molestation allegations that mj was facing at that time - trying to equate being called out on his dodgy business practices to mj facing total personal and professional ruin from the chandlers
 
Re: MJ Estate Sues Howard Mann and business partner Henry Vaccaro

Bubs said:
The bolded part remind me of an interview that Katherine gave a while ago.
In a recent interview from the Michael Jackson Secret Vault, Katherine says, "All these lawyers that are involved in Michael's business since he passed -- there's a lot of them -- I think they're trying to create different lawsuits and things because they're greedy and they want to get paid."

Trying to create lawsuits! To be brutally honest, many of them lawsuits are results of their own doings and the estate have to what they have to do in order to protect Michael and his business. If Katherine and Co were to run the estate, there would be no money for the kids, nor money to pay loans. They would have given rights to exploit Michael to anyone who pays directly to them.Just like they are doing now with Mann.

As for bolded part, its good to look at the man/woman it the mirror every now and then.
Click to expand...

That is 100% true! Its like they have a split personality or something: they side with these no good for nothing lawyers who im sure they know just want to make $$ out of mj then once the cameras are rolling they give the " oh all those lawyers are out to use mj & us blah blah" but yet they are ones getting involved with these lawyers!
 
Re: MJ Estate Sues Katherine Jackson's Business Partner Howard Mann

I hope this puts EVERYONE on notice that would try to use Mike's image, etc. without permission (this is your wake up call, Jacksons).
 
Re: MJ Estate Sues Howard Mann and business partner Henry Vaccaro

Petrarose said:
Based on the level of these fraudulent schemes between Katherine and Mann, we know that plans/meetings had to begin before Michael was buried. I still do not understand why Katherine signed that paper stating she is the owner of those materials. I could understand Joe signing because he was the boys' manager, but how did Katherine become part of this business. She was mainly the stay at home mother while Joe and the boys went touring and went out to make a living. How come after Michael's death she became owner of these assets and attempting to sell her son's rights to crooks?
Click to expand...

I have a feeling joe could be behind all of this, im not saying im right but it wouldnt surprise me
 
Re: MJ Estate Sues Howard Mann and business partner Henry Vaccaro

Ivy do you have more info. Does the Estate answer to Mann`s response. I saw some tweets in this direction.

And do you know how long will it go until the judge will decide over the motion for partial judgement?
 
Re: MJ Estate Sues Howard Mann and business partner Henry Vaccaro

Mann / Vaccaro lawsuit update


If you remember the latest update I did was about the "summary judgement" requests coming from both sides. Estate had asked for a partial summary judgement for saying Mann/Vaccaro doesn't own Michael's intellectual property rights, as the 2004 lawsuit between MJ- Vaccaro wasn't tried in court it cannot be used as immunity and Mann/ Vaccaro used copyrighted items such as TII, Smooth Criminal lean, Destiny song etc.

Mann / Vaccaro responded saying the items were owned by Katherine and Joe - not Michael, Joe and Katherine owns intellectual property rights, they gave affidavits saying they owned those and it was rightfully transferred to Vaccaro, Michael did not make any ownership claims and did not pursue 2004 lawsuit and any copyright infringement was innocent / done by mistake.

This is the point I last reported. So now the new updates

First partial summary judgement

Estate responded to Mann's counter summary judgement

First these were my tweets about the update that I forgot to post here :

Mann : My copyright infringement of TII photo was innocent, I thought it was one of our photos. MJ Estate : TII is written on MJ's chest

Show me the receipts moment: Mann : Joe owns copyrights because MJ was "work for hire" for him. MJ Estate: there's no work for hire contract

Mann: Some of MJ's rights (publicity and such) was transferred to Joe because he was a minor. MJ Estate: What about when he's 18 and older?

MJ Estate : We have an expert that would testify that our damages are in 7 figures due to Mann / Vaccaro.

Here's the details to the tweets

Mann argued that Joe / Katherine owned the items as well as intellectual property rights because Michael worked as "work for hire" and his parents were his "employee" and such rights were transferred to Vaccaro during bankruptcy sale. Estate responds saying that there's nothing that shows that Katherine and Joe ever owned the intellectual property rights or that shows Michael was a "work for hire". Estate says without any written document / agreement this is just a speculation that can't be proven.

Estate argues that the affidavits given by Katherine and Joe in Nov 2009 doesn't mention intellectual property and copyright law clearly separates physical property from intellectual property. Therefore Estate argues that the sale of physical items at bankruptcy would not transfer the intellectual property rights.

Estate also denies the claims that Michael did not object to sale or did not claim ownership of the items. To the contrary Michael objected to the sale of his property at bankruptcy sale and the judge protected his rights.

Estate versus Mann/ Vaccaro's disagreement about the 2004 lawsuit continues, again Estate states that lawsuit was dismissed due to failure to prosecute and it didn't determine any facts about ownership one way or another.

After these filings , the judge heard the oral arguments on July 23, now we are waiting for his order about the partial summary judgement coming from both sides.

Second Trial date delay request

While this was going on Vaccaro filed a request in delaying the trial date from September 2012 for at least 5 months. Vaccaro argued that he was added to the trial in April 2012 and therefore he did not have enough time to prepare. The document also stated that Mann and Vaccaro had a disagreement earlier in 2012 and separated their business activities.

Estate argued against this stating that Vaccaro actually has been a part of the lawsuit from the start. Estate had sued Vintage Pop Inc, from the start and Vaccaro is the president and owner of Vintage Pop. It's just Estate learned this fact later on during discovery but as they were suing Vaccaro's company Vintage Pop from the start he was a party to the lawsuit from the start.

Court denied the delay request agreeing with the Estate saying that 1) Vaccaro has been a party from the start as he is president of Vintage Pop and 2) the timing of the request is improper.

Third court mandated settlement conference

Judge ordered the parties to attend to a settlement conference on July 25. They were unable to reach to a settlement.

Fourth trial witness issues

On July 30 Estate has filed a request to deny Mann and Vaccaro introducing an expert witness. According to the Estate although the name and the CV of the expert witness has been forwarded to them, they weren't sent any written report from this expert witness. As the rules require a "written report", Estate is asking barring of Mann/ Vaccaro's expert witness Moses Avalon.

Estate is also asking the court not to allow Mann / Vaccaro to present versions of their website as they failed to preserve the website (edited it) and never provided a copy of the website even though they were asked.
 
Re: MJ Estate Sues Howard Mann and business partner Henry Vaccaro

JUst googled moses supposes avalon. He's some kind of music biz xpert who's written 2 books - 'how to survive the scams and shams of the music biz', and a guide on 'how to negotiate a record contract, understanding and avoiding sneaky lawyer tricks'. He sounds alot of fun.
 
Re: MJ Estate Sues Howard Mann and business partner Henry Vaccaro

"Mann : Joe owns copyrights because MJ was "work for hire" for him"
It's a damn shame that now Joe and Mann has reduced Michael as work for hire!

I go do some mulling over for rest of the post.
 
Re: MJ Estate Sues Howard Mann and business partner Henry Vaccaro

Good that the judge did not allow a delay. This case seems pretty clear cut, especially about the intellectual property, so why is it taking so long?
 
Re: MJ Estate Sues Howard Mann and business partner Henry Vaccaro

I wonder if Joe and Katherine understand what is going on with this lawsuit?
Mann argued that Joe / Katherine owned the items as well as intellectual property rights because Michael worked as "work for hire" and his parents were his "employee" and such rights were transferred to Vaccaro during bankruptcy sale. Estate responds saying that there's nothing that shows that Katherine and Joe ever owned the intellectual property rights or that shows Michael was a "work for hire". Estate says without any written document / agreement this is just a speculation that can't be proven."

I feel like throwing up, I cannot believe K & J agrees with Mann on this case :puke:

"Estate is also asking the court not to allow Mann / Vaccaro to present versions of their website as they failed to preserve the website (edited it) and never provided a copy of the website even though they were asked."

Judge should deny Mann/Vaccaro this if the website is not the same as it was earlier.
 
Re: MJ Estate Sues Howard Mann and business partner Henry Vaccaro

Bubs said:
I wonder if Joe and Katherine understand what is going on with this lawsuit?
Click to expand...

I don't think Joe and his wife care to know about these lawsuits, their only objective is to earn money.

They sign these deals in the hopes of earning a "few" bucks and if it doesn't work out they just move on to the next shady deal. They don't care about the "inner" workings of these deals.

Case in point: The "deal" in Gary. They signed a paper stating that they owned this, that, and the other thing which belongs to Michael's Estate and had the Mayor of Gary waving that piece of paper around, like he had struck gold. Ma and Pa Jackson know they don't own anything, but they will use that false knowledge in order to get their feet in the door. They earn a few dollars and move on, leaving in this case, the Mayor holding the bag.

Samething goes with those signed belts. They knew that didn't own the rights need to create those belts, but they signed off anyway.

They are just trying to make money off of Michael's name, they know it's not legal, and in my opinion, they don't care! When the crap hits the fan, they have ALREADY moved on to the next shady deal.
 
Last edited:
Re: MJ Estate Sues Howard Mann and business partner Henry Vaccaro

In their mind, Michael their son, they should be allowed to do what they want with him and his image.
 
Re: MJ Estate Sues Howard Mann and business partner Henry Vaccaro

Bubs said:
In their mind, Michael their son, they should be allowed to do what they want with him and his image.
Click to expand...

Exactly, and if it doesn't work out, too bad, it's not their problem.

Just ask Howard Mann, the perfume guy, and Melissa Johnson.
 
Re: MJ Estate Sues Howard Mann and business partner Henry Vaccaro

bubs said:
In their mind, Michael their son, they should be allowed to do what they want with him and his image.
Click to expand...
I can actually imagine branca saying 'i am michael jackson' - not out of hubris as randy makes out, but just as one last desperate, frustrated attempt to try and get the jacksons to understand that they just haven't the right to use their son in all their deals. Clearly hasn't worked, lol.
 
Validity of Michael Jackson's will in dispute, lawsuit says
August 7, 2012 | 1:59 pm


7
0


The validity of Michael Jackson’s will could get a court airing next month if a business associate of the pop star’s mother gets his way.

Lawyers for a Canadian businessman who works with Katherine Jackson wrote in a filing Monday that he was “in possession of evidence that casts substantial doubt on the validity of the will” and wants to present it at federal trial set for September.

The business partner, Howard Mann, is locked in a copyright battle with the executors of the singer’s estate largely over a tribute book that he produced with Jackson’s mother.

In a filing in U.S. District Court in Los Angeles, Mann’s lawyers wrote he wanted to present an attack on the will’s authenticity as part of a defense to copyright infringement claims brought by executors John Branca and John McClain.

“Defendants will argue that the estate cannot produce any evidence indicating they own the assets, thereby failing the first prong of a copyright action,” the attorneys wrote.

The probate court presiding over Jackson’s estate accepted the 2002 will shortly after his death and an appellate court subsequently said the window for challenging the will had closed. The document put Jackson’s assets into a private trust run by Branca and McClain, music industry veterans and longtime Jackson advisors. The trust benefits Jackson’s three children, his mother and charities.

In recent weeks, some of his siblings, who inherited nothing, have said the will was faked and called on Branca and McClain to resign. The executors have condemned “false and defamatory accusations grounded in stale Internet conspiracy theories.”

Their attorney urged a judge last month to bar any attack on the will in front of jurors, writing that it was a settled legal issue and irrelevant to the copyright claims.

“None of this evidence would constitute a legal defense to any of the claims in this lawsuit, and are offered solely so that defendants may point to their relationship with Mrs. Jackson and argue that the estate is somehow being unfair to her,” the attorney wrote.

A hearing is set for Aug. 27.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/08/michael-jackson-will-lawsuit.html
 
Re: MJ Estate Sues Howard Mann and business partner Henry Vaccaro

lol....

How is the validity of the will relevant to this case? Isn't this case about copyright infringement? and Even if the will is deemed invalid, it still does not change the fact that mann infringed on copyright material he does not own.
 
Re: MJ Estate Sues Howard Mann and business partner Henry Vaccaro

Is that going to be allowed? Isn't thi guy working with Randy too and he gets this agenda pushed in there?
 
Re: MJ Estate Sues Howard Mann and business partner Henry Vaccaro

passy001 said:
lol....

How is the validity of the will relevant to this case? Isn't this case about copyright infringement? and Even if the will is deemed invalid, it still does not change the fact that mann infringed on copyright material he does not own.
Click to expand...

Mann does not even understand the point the estate made when they claimed "if you own the product, it does not mean you own the intellectual property of the product." If he cannot understand that, how is he going to understand anything else. Even if Branca and co are not the exec, the fact is that he cannot use the intellectual property of an artist without permission. I guess he is thinking that the exec is Katherine, under the "TRUE" will and she would not press charges.
 
Re: MJ Estate Sues Howard Mann and business partner Henry Vaccaro

Petrarose said:
Mann does not even understand the point the estate made when they claimed "if you own the product, it does not mean you own the intellectual property of the product." If he cannot understand that, how is he going to understand anything else. Even if Branca and co are not the exec, the fact is that he cannot use the intellectual property of an artist without permission. I guess he is thinking that the exec is Katherine, under the "TRUE" will and she would not press charges.
Click to expand...

Yeah. that is definitely his plan. He wants to claim that his "true" will have KJ and Joe as executors. and since both gave him permission under this supposedly "True" will, he's not infringed on the copyright material. But there is one big problem with that, namely: his "True" will has not been admitted into the probate and therefore is not valid.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top