MJ Estate Sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme Countersues / Tohme's Complaint [Merged]

[bluetopez]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

That neverland deal with Colony Capital would have been proably good if Tohme wasn't already involved with them. They all pretty much lied to MJ to get their hands on Neverland. That deal should be void or atleast have Tohme removed completly so he can't profit anymore. But, I would completly remove Colony Capital aswell! Hopefully that can be done too?

 

[passy001]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Passy

Are you saying Colony did not pay that?

No. That's not what I'm saying. I was just responding to your reasoning that MJ gained a lot from the Nevy deal, which he did NOT.

 

[legacylegacy7]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

The deal was worth more than $50 million to MJ. $35 million paid to him. Michael was happy with him and Colony forming Sycamore Valley Ranch. Who is the Estate suing again?

 

[passy001]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

That neverland deal with Colony Capital would have been proably good if Tohme wasn't already involved with them. They all pretty much lied to MJ to get their hands on Neverland. That deal should be void or atleast have Tohme removed completly so he can't profit anymore. But, I would completly remove Colony Capital aswell! Hopefully that can be done too?

For the Nevy deal to be annulled, the Estate will have to prove 2 things:
1) Tohme acted in bad faith. i.e he did not represented the best interests of MJ by forging a deal that favors Colony Capital at the expense of MJ.
2) Tohme misrepresented himself to MJ by concealing his prior relationship with Colony Capital.

I'm not an expert in contract laws and so on. but that should be sufficient to annul a contract.

 

[passy001]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

The deal was worth more than $50 million to MJ. $35 million paid to him. Michael was happy with him and Colony forming Sycamore Valley Ranch. Who is the Estate suing again?

MJ was happy because he was lied. he had no idea about the terms and conditions of the deal.

 

[legacylegacy7]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Who is he? Who are they suing?

 

[Petrarose]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

MJ was happy because he was lied. he had no idea about the terms and conditions of the deal.

^Are you using some documents to determine that Michael did not know the terms and conditions of the Neverland deal? I am curious here.

 

[passy001]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

^Are you using some documents to determine that Michael did not know the terms and conditions of the Neverland deal? I am curious here.

Read the Estate lawsuit. The executors say that MJ was persuaded to sign to terms he did not fully grasp or understand and would NOT have agreed to had he received a good legal advice. By that, they claim what he signed on paper was different to what he was told.

 

[AliCat]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Here's a list of Colony Capital's Investments in the U.S:

ESH MEZZANINE LOAN
CDCF - Hospitality
Origination of mezzanine loan in conjunction with recapitalization of Extended Stay Hotels, Inc.

BARCLAYS FDIC PORTFOLIO
CDCF - Other
Acquisition of approximately 1,660 performing and non-performing loans from FDIC

MULTI-FAMILY APARTMENT PORTFOLIO
CDCF - Residential
Origination of $14 million first mortgage loan to refinance recently constructed mixed-use multifamily and retail development

HOTEL PORTFOLIO LOAN
CDCF - Hospitality
Acquisition of discounted performing mezzanine loan secured by 103 limited service hotels

CLASS A MANHATTAN OFFICE
CDCF - Office
Participation in a first mortgage secured by a Class A New York City office building property

WESTLAKE VILLAGE LOAN
CDCF - Office
First mortgage commercial loan in Westlake Village, CA

WEST VILLAGE LOAN
CDCF - NPLs
Origination of $30 million loan secured by New York City real estate and additional intellectual property

NATIONWIDE LOAN PORTFOLIO
CDCF - NPLs
Acquisition of 25 performing first-mortgage loans located nationwide for $131 million, or 25% discount to UPB

FIRST REPUBLIC BANK
Colony Investors VIII, L.P. - NPLs
Colony Investors VIII, CDCF
Acquisition of a 22% stake in First Republic Bank, a best-in-class relationship bank with $20 billion of high quality loans

DB STRUCTURED SALE
CDCF - NPLs
Acquisition of 1,200 performing and non-performing loans from FDIC

WLH LAND ACQUISITION
CDCF - Other
Acquisition of residential development sites in California, Nevada and Arizona at significant discount to market value

US COMMERCIAL BANK LOAN PORTFOLIO
CDCF - NPLs
Acquisition of 11 performing and sub-performing loans at significant discount to UPB

EXMOOR
CDCF - NPLs
Purchased controlling tranche of a newly created vehicle at 70 cents on the dollar, or $92 million, for $131 million face amount

US LIFE INSURANCE LOAN PORTFOLIO
Colony Investors VIII, L.P. - NPLs
Acquisition of diversified portfolio of 25 performing first-mortgage loans

WLH LAND ACQUISITION
Colony Investors VIII, L.P. - Other
Acquisition of residential development sites in California, Nevada and Arizona at significant discount to market value

WLH LOAN
Colony Investors VIII, L.P. - NPLs
Origination of $206 million first mortgage loan, to established West Coast private homebuilder with over 50 years of experience.

BANK OF CLARK COUNTY (FDIC)
Colony Investors VIII, L.P. - NPLs
Acquisition of 111 performing and non-performing real estate related loans for a purchase price of $41 million

HAVEN TRUST BANK (FDIC)
Colony Investors VIII, L.P. - NPLs
Acquisition of 92 performing and-non performing real estate related loans for a purchase price of $72 million

CMBS JV PORTFOLIO II
Colony Investors VIII, L.P. - NPLs
Acquisition of eight bonds from eight securitizations with face value of $155 million for $109 million, or 30% discount to UPB

CMBS JV PORTFOLIO II
CDCF - NPLs
Acquisition of eight bonds from eight securitizations with face value of $155 million for $109 million, or 30% discount to UPB

1224 LLC
Colony Investors VIII, L.P. - NPLs
Acquisition of a non-performing loan secured by a first priority lien on a house and ranchland in Santa Ynez, California

STATION CASINOS
Colony Investors VIII, L.P. - Gaming
Public-to-Private acquisition of Station Casinos, the leader in Las Vegas "locals" gaming business and premier Native American gaming management company

MEADOWLANDS XANADU
Colony Investors VIII, L.P. - Retail
Development of a 2.2 million sq. ft. sports, leisure, shopping and family entertainment destination in northern New Jersey

KERZNER INTERNATIONAL
Colony Investors VII, L.P. - Gaming
Acquisition of Kerzner International which owns and manages 11 hotels and gaming assets with 4,473 rooms globally under the Atlantis and One&Only Resorts brands with another 4 hotels and 3,263 rooms under development

AZTAR CORP.
Colony Investors VII, L.P. - Gaming
Acquisition of 1.3 million shares of Aztar Corp prior to submitting a bid to acquire the publicly traded gaming company

RIH CASINO RESORTS
Colony Investors VII, L.P. - Gaming
Acquisition of 4 hotel/casinos in Atlantic City, NJ, East Chicago, IN and Tunica, MS with a total of 1,539 rooms, 6,400 slot machines and 223 table games for $1.3 billion

AZZURRA
Colony Investors VI, L.P. - Residential
Acquisition of 450-unit, 603,000 square foot apartment building in Marina Del Rey, CA for $305 million; Units to be marketed for sale

BISCUIT BUILDING
Colony Investors VI, L.P. - Residential
Loft conversion/condominium development of 110-unit, 130,000 square foot building in Downtown Los Angeles, CA

LAS VEGAS HILTON
Colony Investors VI, L.P. - Gaming
Acquisition of 3,000-room hotel and casino in Las Vegas, NV

MAYFAIR HOUSE
Colony Investors VI, L.P. - Hospitality
Acquisition of 179-room hotel in Coconut Grove, FL

HUD MHLS AUCTION 2002-2
Colony Investors V, L.P. - NPLs
Acquisition of five secured loans to two nursing homes and one assisted living facility at a 67% discount from face value

RESORTS INTERNATIONAL AC
Colony Investors IV, L.P. - Gaming
Acquisition of Resorts AC, which was the first hotel and casino to open in Atlantic City; total purchase price $140 million

SILVERADO PREMIUM II
Colony Investors IV, L.P. - Other
Acquisition of a portfolio of vineyards (1,352 planted acres) located in Napa, Sonoma, Monterey, and Lodi, California

HYATT DULLES
Colony Investors IV, L.P. - Hospitality
Acquisition of a 317-room hotel adjacent to the Washington Dulles Airport; total purchase price $51.7 million

GRAND ASPEN
Colony Investors IV, L.P. - Hospitality
Development of a timeshare project with Hyatt Hotels; total sellable area of 96,600 square feet located in Aspen, Colorado

TOP OF MILL
Colony Investors IV, L.P. - Residential
Development and construction of 13 ski in/ski out units located at the top of Mill Street in Aspen, Colorado

PAUOA BEACH
Colony Investors IV, L.P. - Residential
Development and construction of 30 villas on a 53-acre tract of land on the Island of Hawaii?s Kohala Coast

THUNDERBOWL TOWNHOMES
Colony Investors IV, L.P. - Residential
Development and construction of 16 luxury townhomes in a ski-in, ski-out location in Aspen, Colorado

VERADO HOLDINGS, INC.
Colony Investors IV, L.P. - Other
Investment in a pre-IPO real estate-dependent telecom/technology company

TRAINER WORTHAM CBO
Colony Investors IV, L.P. - Other
Preferred equity investment of a high-grade, mortgage-backed CBO managed by Trainer Wortham

iOWN HOLDINGS, INC.
Colony Investors IV, L.P. - Other
Investment in an on-line mortgage provider

HOTWIRE SERVICES GROUP
Colony Investors III, L.P. - Other
Joint venture investment in a start-up, in-building telecommunications service provider

FRONDOSO LOMAS COUNTY
Colony Investors III, L.P. - Residential
Joint venture development of 200 luxury condominium units in Mexico City with the Steiner and Rivera Torres families

HARVEYS CASINO RESORTS
Colony Investors III, L.P. - Gaming
$405 million buyout of leading mid-cap resort gaming company which owns and operates properties in Nevada, Colorado, and Iowa

SWERDLOW REAL ESTATE GROUP, INC.
Colony Investors III, L.P. - Retail
Investment in securities of private REIT sponsored by the Michael Swerdlow Companies; properties located predominantly in S. Florida

ROYAL OAKS COUNTRY CLUB
Colony Investors III, L.P. - Residential
Acquisition through Sunrise Colony of 500+ acres in Houston, Texas for development of residential/golf course community

SIENA
Colony Investors III, L.P. - Residential
Acquisition of 667 acres in Las Vegas, Nevada for development of age-restricted residential/golf course community

HOTEL GUANAHANI
Colony Investors III, L.P. - Hospitality
Acquisition of 81-room luxury hotel located on the island of St . Barts in the French West Indies

INDIAN RIDGE COUNTRY CLUB
Colony Investors III, L.P. - Residential
Acquisition of 640-acre, fully-entitled, partially constructed residential/golf course community in Palm Desert, CA

SILVERADO PREMIUM PROPERTIES
Colony Investors III, L.P. - Other
Joint venture with strategic partners targeting assemblage of premium California vineyard portfolio

KENNEDY-WILSON, INC.
Colony Investors III, L.P. - Other
Investment in real estate operating company (with Board representation); formation of joint venture with Japanese subsidiary

WATER GARDEN II
Colony Investors III, L.P. - Office
Joint venture development, construction, and leasing of a 600,000 square foot Class A office building in Santa Monica, California

PALOMA RANCH
Colony Investors III, L.P. - Other
Acquisition of 67,650-acre fully-integrated row crop farm and ranch located 65 miles southwest of Phoenix, Arizona

GREAT MALL OF THE BAY AREA
Colony Investors III, L.P. - Retail
Acquisition of 1.25 million square foot shopping center located in California?s Silicon Valley

FRANCHISE FINANCE CORPORATION OF AMERICA
Colony Investors III, L.P. - Other
Strategic purchase of 8% interest (plus warrants) in leading retail real estate finance company structured as REIT

PUBLIC STORAGE, INC.
Colony Investors II, L.P. - Other
Strategic purchase of 2.25% interest in the nation?s largest owner/operator of self-storage facilities

COLONY CELCO
Colony Investors II, L.P. - Residential
Joint venture development of 480 luxury condominium units in Mexico City with the Steiner and Rivera Torres families

MEADOWS DEL MAR
Colony Investors II, L.P. - Residential
Joint venture development of master-planned golf course community in San Diego, California with Patriot American

RED ROCK COUNTRY CLUB
Colony Investors II, L.P. - Residential
Development through Sunrise Colony of 738-acre residential/golf course community in Las Vegas, Nevada

LAS OLAS RIVERFRONT
Colony Investors II, L.P. - Retail
Development of 259,000 square foot retail-entertainment center in Fort Lauderdale, Florida

STANHOPE HOTEL
Colony Investors II, L.P. - Hospitality
Acquisition of 155-room luxury hotel located on Fifth Avenue across from the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York City

HOMEBUILDERS CAPITAL COMPANY
Colony Investors II, L.P. - Other
Formation of a private specialty finance company to provide single family construction loans and other financial products

SANTA ANITA COMPANIES
Colony Investors II, L.P. - Other
Acquisition of securities representing 8% interest in REIT (subsequently acquired by Meditrust Companies)

STRATEGIC INVESTORS
Colony Investors II, L.P. - Other
Partnership formed to target minority positions in securities of undervalued public real estate-related companies

SWERDLOW - SOUTH FLORIDA
Colony Investors II, L.P. - Retail
Acquisition of four-asset portfolio of retail and office properties in Miami area (1.8 million square feet)

610 PARK AVENUE
Colony Investors II, L.P. - Residential
Acquisition of Mayfair Hotel at 65th and Park Avenue in New York City; subsequently converted to 70 luxury condominiums

W HONOLULU
Colony Investors II, L.P. - Hospitality
Acquisition through foreclosure and redevelopment of 50-room boutique hotel and 24 residential units located in Hawaii?s historic Diamond Head district

HOLIDAY INN MIDTOWN
Colony Investors II, L.P. - Hospitality
Acquisition out of bankruptcy and renovation of 600-room tourist-class hotel in New York City; repositioned under Holiday Inn flag

PRENTISS FEDERAL EXPRESS
Colony Investors II, L.P. - Office
Development of 150,000 square foot build-to-suit distribution facility in suburban Philadelphia for Federal Express Corp.

CYPRESS CREEK STATION
Colony Investors II, L.P. - Retail
Development of 227,000 square foot retail power center located in Fort Lauderdale, Florida

ORCHID AT MAUNA LANI
Colony Investors II, L.P. - Hospitality
Acquisition and repositioning of 539-room luxury hotel located on 32 acres along the Kohala Coast, Hawaii

MANHATTAN PROPERTIES
Colony Investors II, L.P. - NPLs
Recapitalization of property portfolio through origination of $20.4 million secured mortgage

PRESIDENTIAL CIRCLE OFFICE BUILDING
Colony Investors II, L.P. - Office
Acquisition and repositioning of Class A, 284,060 square foot office building in Hollywood, Florida (Miami submarket)

KROGER EQUITIES
Colony Investors II, L.P. - Other
Minority investment in securities of under-valued/under-performing Southeastern office REIT

LAKELANDS
Colony Investors II, L.P. - Residential
Acquisition, entitlement, and development of 343-acre master-planned residential community in Gaithersburg, Maryland

GRAND BAY OFFICE PLAZA
Colony Investors II, L.P. - Office
Acquisition and repositioning of Class A, 164,177 square foot office building in Coconut Grove, Florida (Miami submarket)

SPANISH HILLS DEVELOPMENT
Colony Investors, L.P. - Residential
Acquisition from Japanese financial institution of 95 finished residential lots and adjacent land within country club in Camarillo, CA

FIDELITY FEDERAL PORTFOLIO
Colony Investors, L.P. - NPLs
Acquisition of 291-asset portfolio of under-performing loans and REO properties located principally in California

GLENDALE FEDERAL PORTFOLIO
Colony Investors, L.P. - NPLs
Acquisition of 26-asset portfolio of sub-performing and under-performing loans located in California, Arizona and Florida

MID-ATLANTIC STATES PORTFOLIO
Colony Investors, L.P. - NPLs
Acquisition of 33-asset portfolio of non-performing mortgage loans located principally in the Mid-Atlantic states

HILTON WAIKOLOA VILLAGE
Colony Investors, L.P. - Hospitality
Acquisition from Japanese financial institution of 1,241-room luxury resort on Hawaii

FDIC NORTHEAST PORTFOLIO
Colony Investors, L.P. - NPLs
Acquisition of 85-asset portfolio concentrated in the Northeastern US from the FDIC

MAJOR COMMERCIAL BANK PORTFOLIO
Colony Investors, L.P. - NPLs
Acquisition of 65-asset portfolio of under-performing loans and land assets located principally in the Southwestern U.S.

WEST COAST LAND FUND
Colony Investors, L.P. - NPLs
Acquisition in joint venture with the RTC of 4,500 finished and partially finished residential lots in California and Arizona

COMMERCIAL MORTGAGE PORTFOLIO
Colony Investors, L.P. - NPLs
Acquisition of 201-asset portfolio of first and junior mortgage loans secured by non-institutional real estate collateral

GREAT AMERICAN SAVINGS PORTFOLIO
Colony Investors, L.P. - NPLs
Acquisition of 100-asset portfolio of commercial loans and REO properties previously owned by defunct Great American Savings

WEST COAST ACQUISITION PARTNERS
Colony Investors, L.P. - NPLs
Acquisition of 174-asset RTC portfolio of under-performing loans and properties concentrated in Western U.S.
http://www.colonyinc.com/namerica.php

 

[legacylegacy7]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Passy

Read the lawsuit. Who are they suing?

 

[bluetopez]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Colony Capital should be held responsible too not just Tohme they knew what was going on. How could they not when Tohme was partners with them. And aren't others being looked at even though Tohme is the only one being named as of yet. So I say it's to early to tell who in the end will pay other then Tohme only.

 

[ivy]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Why would Colony Capital pay that kind of money to MJ? What do they get in return?

Passy

Are you saying Colony did not pay that?

Colony got the right to use the WHOLE property and even though they got a small share they got the equal power in decision making. That's unfavorable to Michael.

Passy

Read the lawsuit. Who are they suing?

As I wrote it earlier, there's nothing illegal with offering someone a bad deal. The fault falls on the people who was supposed to protect Michael's best interest. So they can't go after Colony for offering an unfavorable deal however if they can prove that Michael was conned into signing that deal, it can give them the chance to challenge that deal as well.

 

[legacylegacy7]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

According to the lawsuit concerns with the Neverland deal appear to focus around Thome making himself a third partner. Even when it comes to the financial aspects of the deal the only specific allegations are about Thome making himself a partner entitled to 10% of every Sycamore Valley Ranch deal. In the lawsuit Colony Capital is mentioned but no specific allegations of wrong doing or fraudulent intent.

Also, according to the lawsuit Thome was doing many shady things completely unrelated to Colony Capital or Neverland. It would be fair to say that without specific allegations or evidence Thome may have been a shady manager ripping off MJ by giving himself a high percentage in deals and keeping Mr. Jackson's property without sharing that infomation or getting approval of his fraud from anyone.

 

[AliCat]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

When Thomas Barrack of "Colony Capital" paid the $24M to keep "Neverland" from going into foreclosure and being sold at a Publiic Auction, he set up a loan for Michael to repay. Which is why Thomas Barrack of "Colony Capital" called Phillip Anschutz, who owns AEG to put Michael back to work as the Greatest Entertainer who ever lived to perform in London at the 02 Arena.

Which is why Thome Thome should not get a finder's fee of $2.4M! Barron's Marketing Dictionary says, in general a finder's fee paid to an individual or company whose function is to bring together the parties involved in a business deal. The finder will often serve as an intermediary until the deal is consummated. The fee is usually based on either a percentage of the profit created by the deal or the value of the deal, but it may also be a flat rate paid by one or all of the parties involved.

Barron's Banking Dictionary says a finder's fee is paid by a lender to a broker, or sometimes by a borrower to a broker, for obtaining a loan, usually a mortgage, or for referring business to a lender.

Investopedia Financial Dictionary: Often, the finder's fee may simply be a gift from one party to another, as no legal obligation to pay a commission exists. For example, let's examine a real estate transaction. Let's say that a friend is selling a property and you discover a potential buyer. If the transaction goes through, your friend may give you a small percentage of the sale, as a reward for finding the purchaser.

Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/finder-s-fee#ixzz1nqaB2PAv

 

[Petrarose]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Read the Estate lawsuit. The executors say that MJ was persuaded to sign to terms he did not fully grasp or understand and would NOT have agreed to had he received a good legal advice. By that, they claim what he signed on paper was different to what he was told.

Thank you, but I am understanding this as a statement against Thome and not Capital itself. Wasn't it Thome who set this up, and isn't the lawsuit with Thome. My head is spinning now.

 

[Bonnie Blue]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Petrarose - See ivy's post on previous page, she explains it. The estate, acting for mj, can only proceed against tohme as they say he was working for mj and had a duty of care to mj to get the best possible deal regarding neverland, whereas it looks like tohme just got a good deal for colony capital with whom he has close links. Thils was such a bad deal for mj, he needed a loan to save neverland which he got and presumably had to pay back with interest (don't have those details) but he had to share ownership which meant he didn't have the sole right to decide to sell and he had to share the usage rights. He lost sole control of neverland - sharing it with some company who he didn't know.

Unfortunately I'm not confident of this part of the lawsuit. Going by jermaine's q and a he says he only met tohme on 13 april 08 re neverland and the deal with neverland was the first week of may. So i'm not sure if estate can prove that in those 3 weeks, tohme met mj, became mj's manager and should have been acting on his behalf in looking for better deals. Anyway, maybe jermaine's 'memory' might be less than accurate. Stranger things have happened.

 

[legacylegacy7]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Hello Petrarose,

I understand your confusion because people are taking this lawsuit and making it mean a lot of things that it does not actualy say. It has already been established in this thread that Michael did not owe or have to pay Colony. Infact THEY PAID HIM. Also nobody was in a position to put the King Of Pop to work and in no way did he lose Neverland.

What was helpful is when AllieCat posted information about finders fees because that is what much of the lawsuit is about. It is likely the Estate has long known what they want to do with Neverland...But they don't want to do anything until they exclude Thome Thome and his 10% of everything. The deal was supposed to be a Joint venture between MJ and Colony not a third partner.

 

[Bubs]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Unfortunately I'm not confident of this part of the lawsuit. Going by jermaine's q and a he says he only met tohme on 13 april 08 re neverland and the deal with neverland was the first week of may. So i'm not sure if estate can prove that in those 3 weeks, tohme met mj, became mj's manager and should have been acting on his behalf in looking for better deals. Anyway, maybe jermaine's 'memory' might be less than accurate. Stranger things have happened.

The timeline is very confusing, at least to me!
Ivy posted a snippet from Jermaine's book
"If he could lead me to people of wealth to create something as vast as Crystal City, then saving Neverland would cost the equivalent of small change. I called our new friend and we met at his house on April 13, 2008.'

Alicat posted the following link http://news.sky.com/home/showbiz-news/article/15327857
Snippet from it:
"Dr Tohme did more mundane corporate videos. One video was for property investment firm Colony Capital, so Dr Tohme called owner Thomas Barrack in March, 2008."

How come Tohme called to T Barrack in March to help with Neverland situation, when Jermaine states that they met April to talk about Neverland?

Another thing, if Barrack is Tohme's personal friend, wouldn't that be considered for Tohme working for himself and NOT
acting on Michael's behalf. Therefore I think estate has a good chance proving their point.
Tohme say's in this article that he is close personal friend with Barrack so I don't think he qualifies for finders fee.
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/31740...-mysterious-adviser-tohme-opens/#.T1CioJiNqLU

 

[Bonnie Blue]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

^ Agree bubs, the timing is v confusing, really not sure how reliable jermaine is in all this. Also he says he met with barrack as well, all before mj was involved in this deal to save neverland. I guess the timing is one of the issues the tohme lawsuit will be focussed on.

Does ivy or anyone who has read jermaine's book, know anything about the crystal city project that jermaine said he was working on with mj, that tohme was meant to be helping with the finance. I'm at a complete loss to understand how a man who can't afford his child support and who is reduced to appearing in british reality shows (big brother) is getting involved in putting together multi-billion dollar deals. MJ didn't have any money so how was he part of this project, or was it all in jermaine's head.

Legacy - we're just going to have to disagree, you think the neverland deal was a good deal, i would prefer to believe the executors in thinking it was a bad deal. Nobody just gives someone 10s of $millions for little in return esp not high rolling real estate billionaires - they get to be billionaires for a reason.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Imo going from jermaines previous i doubt the city project even excisted. we all know mj wanted nothing to do with his family interms of biz deals and this is the same man who in 07 was asking myself and other fans where mj was staying when they were both in london cause jerm claimed he was supp to be having dinner with mj. yet he didnt even know where mj was staying!

 

[Autumn II]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

The timeline is very confusing, at least to me!
Ivy posted a snippet from Jermaine's book
"If he could lead me to people of wealth to create something as vast as Crystal City, then saving Neverland would cost the equivalent of small change. I called our new friend and we met at his house on April 13, 2008.'

Alicat posted the following link http://news.sky.com/home/showbiz-news/article/15327857
Snippet from it:
"Dr Tohme did more mundane corporate videos. One video was for property investment firm Colony Capital, so Dr Tohme called owner Thomas Barrack in March, 2008."

How come Tohme called to T Barrack in March to help with Neverland situation, when Jermaine states that they met April to talk about Neverland?

Another thing, if Barrack is Tohme's personal friend, wouldn't that be considered for Tohme working for himself and NOT
acting on Michael's behalf. Therefore I think estate has a good chance proving their point.
Tohme say's in this article that he is close personal friend with Barrack so I don't think he qualifies for finders fee.
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/31740...-mysterious-adviser-tohme-opens/#.T1CioJiNqLU

It's unfortunate that all of Tohme's content was erased from the Colony Capital website (it was gone not long after Michael's death). Tohme was listed as a PARTNER, and that predated when Jermaine said he met him. (he also labeled himself "Ambassador-at-large for the country of Senegal." Riiiiiight.) He and Barrack are ALSO close personal friends. I think this plan was hatched long before Tohme met Jermaine. I think it's pretty obvious that Tohme sought out Jerm, and not the other way around. And why? Because a N/L deal was already in his mind. There is a clear conflict of interest going on here, and I don't think Michael realized that Tohme had an interest in the company he was also "finding." Plus, it's just a little convenient that Barrack lives right NEXT DOOR to Neverland? I really don't know the technicalities of the legal issues here, but at a distance, it sure seems like "conspiracy to defraud."

In terms of Jermaine? I highly doubt he told the truth about this in his interview. (and even the lowliest of fans knows that Michael wanted nothing to do with family-generated business-deals).

And then, we also have the "falling out" between Jermaine and Tohme, that Jerm mentioned. "Falling out?" More likely is, when Jerm's usefulness was over, he was kicked to the curb. Question is, for Jerm, "what did he know, and when did he know it?"

 

[qbee]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Your opinion about what you think "may" have happened is noted
But Actually Michael faired very well in the Neverland deal with Barack .. no one could have given him a better deal. it was the side deal or contract with Thome for a finder fee which is questionable and that is what the estate calls into question. I dont believe it was part of the lucrative Neverland deal but a seperate contract drawn up between Thome and Michael.

 

[Bubs]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

I don't believe there were any sort project with Michael and Jermaine.

"And then, we also have the "falling out" between Jermaine and Tohme, that Jerm mentioned. "Falling out?" More likely is, when Jerm's usefulness was over, he was kicked to the curb. Question is, for Jerm, "what did he know, and when did he know it"

This is purely speculation from my part. Lets say if Jermaine really introduced Tohme to Michael, who then found Barrack to help with Neverland. Would Jermaine be able to claim finders fee too or at least share it with Tohme
(sorry, I don't know how these things works, just going with the flow)? If there was a fall out between Jermaine and Tohme, could it be that Tohme refuses to split the fee with Jermaine?

I'm sure the estate has done their homework, and Tohme's connection with Colony has been investigated. We'll see what comes up the next time in hearing. I think we have to wait three weeks:-( It would be nice to have a sneak peek what estate have in their sleeve.

 

[AliCat]

I am wondering if this "Crystal City" is tied in with Marlon Jackson and The Motherland Group.

Monday, 16 February 2009

Visitors can contemplate the horror of slavery from their luxury rooms
One of pop superstar Michael Jackson's brothers, Marlon, is involved in a controversial plan to develop a <b>$3.4bn (£2.4bn)</b>

... The historic slave port is to be transformed through the bizarre combination of a slave history theme park and a museum dedicated to double Grammy-winning pop-soul group the Jackson Five.

The idea is that the band will help attract African-American tourists keen to trace their roots back to Nigeria.

...visiting the world's only museum dedicated to the career of the Jackson Five.

The Jacksons' upbeat tunes like ABC and Blame it on the Boogie enlivened US and UK discos throughout the 1970s.

On display at the museum will be animatronic vignettes of the band, memorabilia and "holographic displays" of the group that launched the career of Michael Jackson.

"The Jackson Family had been looking for a place to site their memorabilia collection for some time," says Gary Loster, a former mayor of Saginaw, Michigan, and chief executive of The Motherland Group. "We visited the site of the slave port in Badagry and Marlon turned to me and said: 'Let's put it here, this is right'. "It's such an emotional place, and I think we all felt that it was the right place to have the Jackson family memorial." http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7858010.stm

Is this why Jermaine said Thome Thome could help raise billions? So the Jackson family could do this?

 

[jaydom7]

I am wondering if this "Crystal City" is tied in with Marlon Jackson and The Motherland Group.

Monday, 16 February 2009

Visitors can contemplate the horror of slavery from their luxury rooms
One of pop superstar Michael Jackson's brothers, Marlon, is involved in a controversial plan to develop a $3.4bn (£2.4bn)

... The historic slave port is to be transformed through the bizarre combination of a slave history theme park and a museum dedicated to double Grammy-winning pop-soul group the Jackson Five.

The idea is that the band will help attract African-American tourists keen to trace their roots back to Nigeria.

...visiting the world's only museum dedicated to the career of the Jackson Five.

The Jacksons' upbeat tunes like ABC and Blame it on the Boogie enlivened US and UK discos throughout the 1970s.

On display at the museum will be animatronic vignettes of the band, memorabilia and "holographic displays" of the group that launched the career of Michael Jackson.

"The Jackson Family had been looking for a place to site their memorabilia collection for some time," says Gary Loster, a former mayor of Saginaw, Michigan, and chief executive of The Motherland Group. "We visited the site of the slave port in Badagry and Marlon turned to me and said: 'Let's put it here, this is right'. "It's such an emotional place, and I think we all felt that it was the right place to have the Jackson family memorial." http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7858010.stm

Is this why Jermaine said Thome Thome could help raise billions? So the Jackson family could do this?

WOW!! sounds about right to me.. I remember reading that article

 

[legacylegacy7]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Bonnie Blue Quote
"MJ didn't have any money"

"Disagree" with you, definetly. And you just summed up a lot of what is going on here.

Here is non sensational rumor free information on the deal that Michael Jackson made.

Michael Jackson signs Neverland deed over to himself
http://www.canada.com/story_print.html?id=e7ce98ed-346b-4fb9-8acc-0938121fe13c&sponsor=

 

[mynameiscande1]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Bonnie Blue Quote
"MJ didn't have any money"

"Disagree" with you, definetly. And you just summed up a lot of what is going on here.

Here is non sensational rumor free information on the deal that Michael Jackson made.

Michael Jackson signs Neverland deed over to himself
http://www.canada.com/story_print.html?id=e7ce98ed-346b-4fb9-8acc-0938121fe13c&sponsor=

At the risk of sounding contentious legacylegacy7 if Michael had money why was Neverland facing foreclosure?

 

[legacylegacy7]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

"In 2006 Mr. Jackson's former advisors refinanced Neverland Valley Ranch. The loan matured in oct. 2007. Contrary to published reports, Mr Jackson was never in default. Mr Jackson is in the final stages of refinance and will not lose Neverland."
-Michael Jackson rep

 

[Petrarose]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

Hello Petrarose,

I understand your confusion because people are taking this lawsuit and making it mean a lot of things that it does not actualy say. It has already been established in this thread that Michael did not owe or have to pay Colony. Infact THEY PAID HIM. Also nobody was in a position to put the King Of Pop to work and in no way did he lose Neverland.

What was helpful is when AllieCat posted information about finders fees because that is what much of the lawsuit is about. It is likely the Estate has long known what they want to do with Neverland...But they don't want to do anything until they exclude Thome Thome and his 10% of everything. The deal was supposed to be a Joint venture between MJ and Colony not a third partner.

Legacy thanks that is the root of my confusion--the tendency to add to the lawsuit what it does not say.

 

[Autumn II]

Re: MJ Estate sues Tohme Tohme / Tohme countersues / Tohme's complaint @pg 14

At the risk of sounding contentious legacylegacy7 if Michael had money why was Neverland facing foreclosure?

Michael had significant "assets." He also probably had a pretty significant cash-flow problem in terms of monthly/yearly bills. A person can technically have "wealth," as in his ATV catalog, real-estate, and music publishing, but to have cash to pay bills, the money has to be "liquid," i.e. accessible, and he probably didn't want to have to sell anything off to have more cash-flow.