MJ is not an addict, and it wasn't an accidental overdose

[kasume]

^^ waitin for his answer

Which is exactly why it looks more and more to me that the toxic reaction between the benzos and the Propofol was NOT accidental. The benzos alone are known to carry the risk of side effects.

Im glad he pointed out that the combination of the drugs is what made the heart failure.

So like he said, that would mean that the entire bottle of propofol alone DIDN'T cause it. In fact, very early on in the media just a day or two after the 25th, I heard about the toxic reaction between the propofol and the other drugs. But NOW, if you pay attention carefully, you'll see that the media is trying to make it all the propofol's fault. He was give SO MUCH propofol, "swimming in it" like that's what caused his death. People saying "it's like hitting a mouse with a cannonball."

So if the propofol alone DID NOT cause the respiratory failure, which was reported early on until people came on the media shouting nothing but PROPOFOL PROPOFOL!, like you say, what doctor would think that propofol and lorapezam would be just fine is such high doses of BOTH?

 

[PaceMioDolceCuore]

Yes, all we hear is "Acute Propofol intoxication"- check out often you read "Benzodiazepine effect". Too difficult to spell or something nobody wants to think about?

It's like the perfect poisoning taking place, oops! The old fashioned style. And- you can blame the victim, too!

 

[kasume]

They are just trying to cover the reaction of the two drugs....

 

[earth child]

I myself have been saying this all along since the beginning. Murray knew precisely what he was doing. And it looks like he had enough ammo (drugs) to ensure that he definitely would not fail. Tell me, why would Michael need any sedatives at or after 3AM, wasn't it said that he had an appointment to rehearse at around 12N or so. But not only did Murray give him Benzos at 3AM but as well at 530AM, 700AM, and then with a top off at 1040AM of propofol. Now why would he need sedating at 530AM or 7AM or even 1040AM for that matter, even if he did not have an appointment. Just that fact alone raises red flags for days. There is no doubt this was murder. And you are right, Michael was no addict, not by a long shot.

I too believe Michael was murdered. I am just not sure it was by Murray? I think, possibly, Murray was drugged himself and woke up to Michael's body. It would not have taken him long to figure out how that was going to look and who would take the blame! If this is so, who ever did murder Michael, sat Murray down and explained to him how this was going to work and tell him how he too, could make a lot of money! Enough to save his house. Pay his back child support. And oh, while we are at it, we'll pick up the tab on that lawyer who can pay to get you off pretty easy anyway! This fits the time line and why he didn't call 911 for an hour and a half!!
Obviously this is only my opinion but this seems more plausible to me than that he made an error and pumped him full of propofol at 10:40AM? That just doesn't make sense?

 

[CherubimII]

"Murder, she wrote."

 

[kasume]

earthchild, your scenario makes more sense.

Remember what Dr. Jayson Hymes said...

"It makes no sense," said Hymes. "You don't wean people off propofol. People don't go around craving propofol. What he needed to be weaned off of were all the other drugs."

Oh but wait, Michael wasn't addicted to the other drugs, or Murray would have said something about that already. He only said Michael was addicted to propofol. But I see what the doctor is still saying. I looked up Lorazepam, and it is so addictive that sometimes it can only be used at a maximum of four weeks.

cherubim, you said way back in 2009 that someone could have been giving murray instructions over the phone. what made you think that? or was it just a wild guess.

 

[Ohood]

I too believe Michael was murdered. I am just not sure it was by Murray? I think, possibly, Murray was drugged himself and woke up to Michael's body. It would not have taken him long to figure out how that was going to look and who would take the blame! If this is so, who ever did murder Michael, sat Murray down and explained to him how this was going to work and tell him how he too, could make a lot of money! Enough to save his house. Pay his back child support. And oh, while we are at it, we'll pick up the tab on that lawyer who can pay to get you off pretty easy anyway! This fits the time line and why he didn't call 911 for an hour and a half!!
Obviously this is only my opinion but this seems more plausible to me than that he made an error and pumped him full of propofol at 10:40AM? That just doesn't make sense?

but Murray was making some phone calls to other patient in the same time he was supposed to be reviving MJ,
and he was aware of his fault when he refused to tell the medics what he gave MJ so that they would not be able to bring him to life again !

 

[earth child]

but Murray was making some phone calls to other patient in the same time he was supposed to be reviving MJ,
and he was aware of his fault when he refused to tell the medics what he gave MJ so that they would not be able to bring him to life again !

IF Murray was the one that gave MJ those things!

Again, it makes more sense to me, that Murray had no idea anything was wrong with Michael while he made those phone calls. "Someone" else may have set him up and he didn't tell what was given to MJ, because he really didn't know?

 

[kasume]

IF Murray was the one that gave MJ those things!

Again, it makes more sense to me, that Murray had no idea anything was wrong with Michael while he made those phone calls. "Someone" else may have set him up and he didn't tell what was given to MJ, because he really didn't know?

What about that story that Michael said his chest wasn't feeling well the night before and asked the doctor to take him to the hospital?

That med student hasn't contacted me back, when I searched up the disintegration temps. for loraz. and prop. I couldn't find anything, but I did find this.

For Lorazepam

Store at room temperature between 68-77 degrees F (20-25 degrees C) away from moisture, heat, and light.

I'm not a doctor, so I don't know if it would still be okay to give the patient lorazepam in a hot temperature. From reports, it was hot up upstairs.

I haven't found anything on propofol though....but while I was looking I found this and needed to share it with you all.

Patients should be advised that performance of activities requiring mental alertness, such as operating a motor vehicle, or hazardous machinery or signing legal documents may be impaired for some time after general anesthesia or sedation.

How can Michael wake up every morning after using this all night and be so alert? These are questions they are not asking, which they should.

 

[AnnieRUOkay89]

There's much to this story that we as the general public has yet to hear. I feel like Murray is responsible for his actions, as I have a hard time believing some mysterious stranger waltz into Michael's residence while Murray was using the phone and nobody noticed...But as big as the house was, it's not entirely impossible. All of this is making me sad, why Michael? What did he ever do to anyone to have his life taken away like this...

 

[ForeverKOP]

Sorry for being a skeptic, but how do we know for sure that Michael wrote that note?

 

[earth child]

There's much to this story that we as the general public has yet to hear. I feel like Murray is responsible for his actions, as I have a hard time believing some mysterious stranger waltz into Michael's residence while Murray was using the phone and nobody noticed...But as big as the house was, it's not entirely impossible. All of this is making me sad, why Michael? What did he ever do to anyone to have his life taken away like this...

May not have been a mysterious stranger. We really have no idea who was in the house? Or who may have come and gone by the under ground parking garage?
I am not saying that is what happened, only pointing out it is possible.

 

[dirtydiana27]

May not have been a mysterious stranger. We really have no idea who was in the house? Or who may have come and gone by the under ground parking garage?
I am not saying that is what happened, only pointing out it is possible.

Exactly EC---security beefed up, missing surveillance tapes---who knows who was in MJ's house in the early morning hours of the 25th? There are many possibilities and no direct evidence leading to answers.

 

[mjzfille]

We could all speculate but l cant keep asking myself if Murray had all the equipments available would Michael be here?

 

[kasume]

We could all speculate but l cant keep asking myself if Murray had all the equipments available would Michael be here?

I don't think so.

Because the goal was not to "help" Michael sleep. The goal was "to put him to sleep".

And with the equipment, it would have seemed more like premeditation. Without the equipment, it is so much easier, because the doctor can just call it an accident then. It is so much easier for Murray to argue back in his defense then.

 

[CherubimII]

The first time I told my friends that Michael Jackson was murdered
they did not believe me. Now, my friends have all come to the
same conclusion as we have: Michael Jackson was murdered.

 

[rockstar]

Why? :thinking: is gold to put him to sleep how come :yes: :thinking:

is it he is too smart in his goodwell that he can't sleep cause his mind is always on the go :thinking:
cause i have that probulem too :yes:

 

[kasume]

^

Michael was born with music in his head.

As Cherubim said, he was murdered.

 

[JMie]

I don't have any info to add to this thread, just want to thank kasume and the rest of you guys here for your posts and your research. it's greatly appreciated! thanks!

 

[kasume]

accordint to Thome, it wasn't for six weeks like Murray's story. Instead, it was less than two weeks.

Dr. Tohme Tohme, a Jackson advisor, said that Los Angeles-based concert promoter AEG Live retained Murray and that the physician arrived in town less than two weeks ago.

I notice that Thome has to go back and "correct" his info like he did with another article.

[Updated at 4:40 p.m.:Tohme said that Jackson selected Murray but that AEG paid the doctor's bills.]

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...sons-death-concert-promoter-hired-doctor.html

But then Kai Chase said about Murray, "I saw him more routinely in June" and that she sometimes saw him bring down oxygen tanks, not every day. Did she see him ONLY in June, was that what she meant?

 

[CherubimII]

I wonder if the fans are the only ones investigating the death of
Michael Jackson.
I love Michael Jackson, forever.

 

[xthunderx2]

I wonder if the fans are the only ones investigating the death of
Michael Jackson.
I love Michael Jackson, forever.

This is what I would like to know too..

 

[kasume]

I wonder if the fans are the only ones investigating the death of
Michael Jackson.
I love Michael Jackson, forever.

Thing is, how will our voice be heard?

We need some kind of representative for us.

 

[JMie]

I wonder if the fans are the only ones investigating the death of
Michael Jackson.
I love Michael Jackson, forever.

that's what I think sometimes...

 

[Maria MJ]

I wonder if the fans are the only ones investigating the death of
Michael Jackson.
I love Michael Jackson, forever.

Part of me says yes, fans are running this thorough investigation mostly on their own. Part of me would like to be wrong, but I don't have any signs that the authorities are doing their job so far--quite the opposite in fact.
Where fans are definitely alone is in their despair for Michael's loss. This is what triggers their frustration and anguish.

 

[dirtydiana27]

Part of me says yes, fans are running this thorough investigation mostly on their own. Part of me would like to be wrong, but I don't have any signs that the authorities are doing their job so far--quite the opposite in fact.
Where fans are definitely alone is in their despair for Michael's loss. This is what triggers their frustration and anguish.

I agree Maria--it is the dedicated fans who will never allow Michael's murder to go unsolved or unpunished. It is indeed sad that the jurisprudence system that has investigated and will prosecute in the criminal courts on Michael's behalf is corrupt. From what we've seen out of California---this will be another travesty of justice. Two of my friends were in the courtroom during the last hearing, and they say that the prosecution looked unprepared and clueless, while Murray's three defense attorneys present were no-nonsense and focused. I become more and more convinced that it is Michael's fans who will eventually get true justice for him--or at least exhaust everything we have trying!!!

 

[kasume]

Two of my friends were in the courtroom during the last hearing, and they say that the prosecution looked unprepared and clueless, while Murray's three defense attorneys present were no-nonsense and focused. I become more and more convinced that it is Michael's fans who will eventually get true justice for him--or at least exhaust everything we have trying!!!

We WILL get justice for him.

Where are these prosecuters from, the DA?

 

[Moulin Rouge]

I think a few family members are investigating this like latoya has been adamant about her opinions that her brother was murdered and others have said they think it's murder/foul play. We will not know every deatil of the investigation unitl there is a trial. Even then I know the LAPD is corrupt and unfortunately i don't know if michael will get justice.

 

[mjjmsc]

great post!thank you so much!that note written by Michael it's such a great proof that he did his best to stay away from morphine and demerol,he didn't want to get addicted and he was so carefull...and this doctor came and killed him!this is so sad...

 

[Courtney]

A friend of mine says: “It’s time they started treating Michael’s death like a murder, instead of just another celebrity drug overdose“. I agree with her.

I agree as well. Michael isn't just a "celebrity," he is a human being. He is a victim here. His status as a celebrity shouldn't dehumanize him in this sitution or any situation for that matter.