MJJC Exclusive Q&A with Jermaine Jackson - Read Jermaine's answers

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Yes, it is possible. We just don't know if Jermaine actually experienced it in a different way or if he just doesn't want to "badmouth" any family member for whatever reason.

No we don't know, (btw I'm not a fan of Jermaine but I am trying to be fair) If there are two children one is very shy and sensitive and the other very confident then surely even the same treatment could have a very different impact on them, and also how they view it later, ie one might shrug it off but the other be deeply hurt by it.
 
Yes, it is possible. We just don't know if Jermaine actually experienced it in a different way or if he just doesn't want to "badmouth" any family member for whatever reason.

If we can believe the Schmuley tapes (and I think we can . . . ), stripping a child naked, oiling his body so that the strokes of a belt hurt WORSE, and then whipping him, IS child-abuse, and not in any conceivable way, a question of "perceptions." The perception of any rational and honest person would be, YES, that is SEVERE child abuse.
 
No we don't know, (btw I'm not a fan of Jermaine but I am trying to be fair) If there are two children one is very shy and sensitive and the other very confident then surely even the same treatment could have a very different impact on them, and also how they view it later, ie one might shrug it off but the other be deeply hurt by it.

Yes, I also know this from my own experience, that's why I said it's possible. Plus sometimes victims of abuse play things down and/or suppress memories and emotions. Nobody can look into his head, so it's possible that Autumn is right or that you are right. Or maybe it's something in between.
 
Thanks a million Ivy and the rest of MJJC!!!!!!!!

I think we've got the best Jermaine interview!!!!


Lots of good stuff there!!!!

But I still think he wrote "Word To The Badd"!!!!


And he didn't say enough about MJ3 getting bullied on twitter!!!



I usually don't like Jermaine (in fact I often have a strong dislike for him)..........but at least he is now willing to fight tooth-n-nail for Michael!!!!



He just needs to become more independent and "break away from that tree" he keeps mentioning!!!!

Being stuck to that imaginary tree has done nothing good for him!!!!!



And one last thing.......Stop attaching you and the "Jackson family" to Michael's legacy!!!!!!
 
In my earlier post where I was trying to be objective I considered if it were possible for two people with hugely different personalities to experience the same treatment but for it to effect them differently. Is it possible?

It's pretty obvious that mj seems to be the most sensitive of all the brothers. He himself said in moonwalk, that his acne affected him a million times worse than marlon who had the same problem. So if the treatment by joe was the same for all the boys as jermaine states then it's clear that mj wd be more affected as he took things to heart more. Also jermaine was 4 yrs older so all the added pressure of becoming the jackson 5 affected mj 4 yrs earlier than it did jermaine which is a big age gap when you;re a child.

From reports i've read about the family in the 70s, there seems to have been a divide between joe and the older boys, and then katherine and mj, randy and the girls. You can just tell that mj with his sensitivity, shyness and empathy as well as his strict jw beliefs, just wouldn't get along with his dad on any level whereas the other boys maybe could rub along with joe with the chasing women and their more confident exteriors.

Alternatively, as milka points out, maybe jermaine is just lying and covering up.
 
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If we can believe the Schmuley tapes (and I think we can . . . ), stripping a child naked, oiling his body so that the strokes of a belt hurt WORSE, and then whipping him, IS child-abuse, and not in any conceivable way, a question of "perceptions." The perception of any rational and honest person would be, YES, that is SEVERE child abuse.

Yes, absolutely, but see my other post. Maybe Jermaine is just lying to himself because he depends on his family. Michael didn't depend on them, it was the other way around.
 
Yes, I also know this from my own experience, that's why I said it's possible. Plus sometimes victims of abuse play things down and/or suppress memories and emotions. Nobody can look into his head, so it's possible that Autumn is right or that you are right. Or maybe it's something in between.

Thank you for sharing that with us.

I'm not disagreeing with Autumn as I said which ever way you look at it - it is child abuse.
 
From what I've seen from the Jacksons, they seem to have a 'hive' mentality when it comes to family unity.

What I mean that is seems that the Jacksons have this mentality to always protect the family's 'good' image no matter. We have seen this behavior even from Michael. He called out his father, then he kind of backpedaled, gave a gift to his father, and even told him he was tricked into the question. Even in the Bashir interview, he was quick to call his father a genius and how he helped him become successful. Yes, that all maybe true, but Michael himself kind of defended his family image but not telling the complete truth about his dad like he did on the Rabbi or even the Glenda tapes.

I also think that is partly why Janet called Michael an addict and how the family tried to 'save' him. It wasn't because she wanted attention or because she had it in for Michael, but she wanted to protect the family image. At the time, the media and even some fans were blaming the family for not getting Michael help for his addiction and her statement came out as damage to control for her family. This is not excusing her action, but this is the way I saw it.

It just seems the Jacksons think family first even if it means sacrificing the individual.
 
What I mean that is seems that the Jacksons have this mentality to always protect the family's 'good' image no matter. We have seen this behavior even from Michael. He called out his father, then he kind of backpedaled, gave a gift to his father, and even told him he was tricked into the question. Even in the Bashir interview, he was quick to call his father a genius and how he helped him become successful. Yes, that all maybe true, but Michael himself kind of defended his family image but not telling the complete truth about his dad like he did on the Rabbi or even the Glenda tapes.

Very true. But it also takes a lot of guts for a victim of abuse to come out and say what happened to you. And btw., it's even harder for men.
 
From what I've seen from the Jacksons, they seem to have a 'hive' mentality when it comes to family unity.

What I mean that is seems that the Jacksons have this mentality to always protect the family's 'good' image no matter. We have seen this behavior even from Michael. He called out his father, then he kind of backpedaled, gave a gift to his father, and even told him he was tricked into the question. Even in the Bashir interview, he was quick to call his father a genius and how he helped him become successful. Yes, that all maybe true, but Michael himself kind of defended his family image but not telling the complete truth about his dad like he did on the Rabbi or even the Glenda tapes.

I also think that is partly why Janet called Michael an addict and how the family tried to 'save' him. It wasn't because she wanted attention or because she had it in for Michael, but she wanted to protect the family image. At the time, the media and even some fans were blaming the family for not getting Michael help for his addiction and her statement came out as damage to control for her family. This is not excusing her action, but this is the way I saw it.

It just seems the Jacksons think family first even if it means sacrificing the individual.

You might have a point there. When Jermaine said that I remembered Tito once saying that out of all the brothers Michael had it the easiest, that he had had it much harder, I don't think he expanded on it and I can't remember where I saw or heard it. But thats why I was interested to discuss how they could all view the abuse differently.
 
Very true. But it also takes a lot of guts for a victim of abuse to come out and say what happened to you. And btw., it's even harder for men.

Absolutely, and in mj's case, to so clearly break that cycle of abuse by becoming the exemplary parent that he was to ppb. He looked into their eyes every day to say that he loved them and made sure that they knew they were unconditionally loved - you know that never happened to him.
 
It sounds like Jermaine feels he is entitled. Here's an article as some food for thought!

"Some will remember the hot book of the 1970s, "I'm OK -- You're OK" by Thomas Harris. Harris' tome was part of the self-esteem movement of the time. Thirty years later, self-esteem seems to have morphed into entitlement. Perhaps the book for this decade will be, "I'm Entitled and So Are You! (Though Perhaps Not Quite So Much as Me)." Such a book, popular as it might prove, would lack therapeutic value. A more helpful book might bear the title, "I'm Not Entitled and Neither Are You -- So Get Over It!"

Entitlement issues are increasingly a concern of psychologists and therapists. Pastors and some educators report similar concerns. We seem to have come to the place where we feel entitled to the good life. We're entitled to have everything work for us. If it doesn't, someone must be to blame, and you can be sure of at least this: Whoever is at fault, it isn't us.

What a crazy idea!

Imagine a pile of presents under the Christmas tree as large as Bunker Hill that's taken for granted. That's just the way it's supposed to be. Every kid has a right to presents by the heaps, and even that will disappoint if the latest, coolest thing isn't to be found. A person standing on a beautiful beach in Hawaii with a frown on his face, muttering, "I really liked our spring vacation better" -- that's an entitlement issue, too. I read that these days mental health types see young people on a regular basis who are absolutely certain their lives should be better than they are and someone else is to blame. But not only young people. This seems to be an intergenerational dysfunction. Working in an upscale retirement home can be a tough gig! Talk radio shows and their jocks specialize in identifying the culprits and not very often are they us. And when it's our own children who have stepped in it, the self-righteousness of parents can be a wonder to behold. The upshot is a culture of complaint. We have, it seems, grown fluent in the language of blame, complaint and grievance, while having lost our linguistic capacity when it comes to words such as, "Please," "Thank you," and "I'm sorry." We also seem increasingly disabled when it comes to those locutions that express personal responsibility for our part in the problems that beset us. After all, how can we possibly say, "It's my fault," when we've been weaned and schooled on self-esteem? If I'm OK and you're OK, then it must be "Them."
A sense of entitlement means that we feel that we have a right or a claim to something, whether it's the best school, a grand home, preferential treatment, or the good life. How has this pervasive sense of entitlement come to pass? Is it self-esteem run amok? Is it the emphasis on "rights" in speech and thought? Is entitlement a corollary of affluence or a consequence of consumerism? Does it owe to being the world's sole superpower? Whatever the cause, this much seems true: Entitlement is the handmaiden of the ego, the sign of a neglected, malnourished soul. Entitlement signals a rejection of the very DNA of America. Our national genetic code, at least at one time, was patterned on respect for the common man and woman. It was sequenced by a belief in the dignity of human life that's not the consequence of having, but of being. My paternal grandmother, who grew up as an orphan in the Midwest, was imprinted with this genetic code and made a point of passing it on to me. During one visit to her quite humble home, I said something that must have sounded either arrogant or entitled. She fixed me with a stern look and said, "Mister, don't you ever think you are any better than anyone else!" It was memorable precisely because I knew beyond the shadow of a doubt that I was special to her, the apple of her eye. And yet putting my self above others was never to be tolerated. In the end, it's the entitled who, however rich, are truly poor. Instead of knowing life as a gift, life turns into something that's taken for granted -- or worse, begrudged. That's real poverty, and no sense of entitlement can alleviate it." Read more: http://www.seattlepi.com/local/arti...-unfortunate-age-of-1232116.php#ixzz1nzum3LF3
 
I, for one, completely believed Michael when he talked about his abuse, with details. There is also a situation where one child in a family is targeted for abuse more than the others, so that may be the case here, and Jermaine just didn't perceive how bad it really was for Michael?

Throwing a child against a wall is ALWAYS child-abuse. That's really not debatable.
 
Really? Michael left his family almost entirely when he forged his solo career. Yes, they attended Michael's trial, but now we know that at least some of them had ulterior motives. None of them had access to him (with the possible exception of Katherine), for long stretches of time. (and yes, he DID change his phone numbers often. Michael had his reasons.)

-But, you are forgetting that Michael toured with his brothers, even with his solo albums, like "Thriller," with the "Victory Tour."

Apparently Diana Ross has not seen the children, and has no access to them, and no say whatsoever in family schemes to use the children as "bait" with various marketing schemes. She is SECOND in terms of guardianship, and Katherine is still living, as the children's sole guardian.

-But, Michael did name Diana Ross to care for his children, if Katherine could not! This is legal and binding.

I don't recall Michael EVER making statements about a "family unit," once he had a solo career.

-The "Victory" tour shows by action's that Michael cared for his "family unit." Plus, the album entitled "Victory," all in 1984.

I think it's unlikely that PP & B know much of anything about the complexities of Michael's finances, at the end of his life. Why WOULD they? They are children.

-Randy Phillips testified about the vagabond existence that Michael's children experienced. Part of why Michael went back to work.

And then there is Michael's abuse as a child. Maybe Joseph had severe anger and self-control issues, and maybe he, himself, was abused as a child? But Katherine? Apparently she was completely ineffective in protecting Michael, or any of her other children. That is a FAIL. There are social service agencies; perhaps there were other, and kinder, relatives, but what happened to Michael as a child should happen to NO person, and not ever. Once the children started raking in money, I think she put HERSELF and her finances first, and not her children. I do feel that PP & B are at great risk, on a number of fronts.

-This is why the fans begin speaking about the issue. Now we read about a $30M Trust.

---I like how Michael mirrored "Neverland" after Walt Disney's creation of "Disneyland." Walt Disney came up with the theme park for parents and children to have a place to go to. This is "family values" and this is what inspired Michael to create "Neverland." When Michael partnered up with Prince Al Waleed:

Back in 1996, Prince Al Waleed bin Talal and Michael Jackson launched a joint venture 'Kingdom Entertainment' to develop a variety of entertainment projects such as movies, books, hotels, recordings and theme parks all based on 'family values'.

A press conference was held in Paris in April and both Al Waleed and Michael revealed their plans and hopes for this venture.
The first project was the sponsoring of Jackson's HIStory world tour and then they produced Michael's "Ghosts" music video / short movie.

Unfortunately, things didn't work out as planned and the company eventually fell apart.

Photos of Al Waleed Bin Talal with Michael Jackson
http://www.waleg.com/archives/017404.html Peace Out!
 
I, for one, completely believed Michael when he talked about his abuse, with details. There is also a situation where one child in a family is targeted for abuse more than the others, so that may be the case here, and Jermaine just didn't perceive how bad it really was for Michael?

Throwing a child against a wall is ALWAYS child-abuse. That's really not debatable.

Autumn, no members here are disputing Michael's description of the abuse he suffered, it is possible as you say that Michael was targeted more, or perhaps their experiences were the same but it didn't leave the same lasting impression on Jermaine as it clearly did with Michael.
 
Autumn, no members here are disputing Michael's description of the abuse he suffered, it is possible as you say that Michael was targeted more, or perhaps their experiences were the same but it didn't leave the same lasting impression on Jermaine as it clearly did with Michael.

I think that with a house as small as the one in Gary, it would be impossible NOT to notice a child being thrown against a wall. What I take exception to is that Jermaine did not tell the TRUTH. I know that for me, it sure as hell would have left "an impression" if I saw a sibling of mine being thrown against a wall!!!! And yes, I think for almost anyone witnessing that level of abuse, it WOULD leave a "lasting impression." I think Jermaine is just diminishing the severity because it serves his interests, to keep the "American Dream" mythology intact.
 
Some family members break with that behavior of explaining stuff away- rooted in abuse- others do not.
Michael clearly reflected on it and broke with it. Pretty obvious in those "Living with Michael Jackson" scenes.
He's no longer even apologizing in the "Please don't be mad at me" scenarios. By the way, it's absolutely not uncommon to find patterns of someone trying to explain things away.
It is not a big mystery or something rare.
The most common thread you find that many abused are being told is "Don't tell anyone, we are not washing our laundry in public." The Jacksons are no exceptions to that, it happens in countless families. But apparently Michael broke with that as well.

So to that end it doesn't even bother me what everyone else says about the abuse that Michael described. Just because Jermaine doesn't consider it abuse, doesn't mean I am required to follow his logic- at all.
It is way more effective to counsel the 'rest of the world' on child abuse than debate this issue with someone who didn't break with that mold- nor is he here to discuss that with anyone.

Apparently the Hayvenhurst situation also resolved itself with some creativity, so that I think nobody is in any danger of abuse. Even longtime Hayvenhurst residence moved out, the entire situation has already changed a lot from what it once was.
I also didn't see guardianship being handed over to Jermaine, so there really is limited reason to freak out.

If anyone feels that the children are not safe- please contact the appropriate agencies if your conscience demands that, do not sit behind a screen or write anonymous letters.
http://lacdcfs.org/contactus/childabuse.html
I mean it. I read thread upon thread how the poor kids are not safe- if you feel that way, do something about.

I understand that it is pretty popular to beat down on Katherine Jackson (and no, I don't 'worship' anyone as shining matriarch) for 'letting it happen', but a lot of people don't quite understand what it means to find yourself in dynamic of domestic violence.
Courts actually do consider aspects like that these days- there have been entire trials where partners of violent men HAVE seen their children die- I caution dumping out judgement unless you have dealt with these dynamics either through personal experience, or professionally.

Common sense will tell you that OF COURSE anybody should get away from such abuser- we all would say that- reality is that even 'rich' people with the means to move on financially can get stuck in these situations.
I recommend a visit to your local Domestic Violence center- let these women tell you just how difficult it is to free yourself from abuse.

I actually doubt that Katherine Jackson herself is especially thrilled with the way things went. I know that it's not the popular thing to say, but a woman who is yelling at a violent man to "stop it" is actually not condoning or encouraging abuse- she's offering herself up for the beating as a deflector shield. Not a situation many people understand. The fact that a woman has not been able to stop an abuser, is absolutely not akin to happily 'let it happen'.
Not with a single word have I heard Michael ever allude to his mother standing idly by in contentment- to do so lets the actual abuser off the hook who is solely responsibly for the abuse perpetrated.


It's seems always pretty clear Michael clearly held Joseph- and no one else- responsible for the abuse perpetrated.
It's also pretty clear that he didn't appreciate his siblings undermining him for his opinion- and that part is also obvious in his will- so it feels a bit useless to be essentially flogging a dead horse- the siblings are nowhere in the will, nor does any one of them have guardianship. And it seems a bit over the top to want to assign someone to Blanket, Paris and Prince to 'guard them' for the entirety of their entire lives from harm- which seems to be the assumed thing behind 'access through siblins'. When they are 20, 30 years old they will have to make their own choices in life- just as the rest of us do. And some of us also have to weigh very carefully what kind of mental background we received growing up.
Sometimes I read these threads and by the sound of it one envisions 3 starving kids in a room full of MK Ultra stuff where they are being groomed in Stockholm syndrome.

Apparently Michael's parents were 'separated enough' for his taste at the time that the will was written, or I doubt that he would have ever considered placing his 3 children into the care of his mother.
Which brings me to another interesting thing. Fans cheer that the Estate has executors without family ties- I agree with that.
But apparently the guardianship is suddenly enough reason for 'fraud', seems a little selective to me, that assessment.
 
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I caution dumping out judgement unless you have dealt with these dynamics either through personal experience, or professionally.

I have dealt exactly with these dynamics, both PERSONALLY and professionally.

Common sense will tell you that OF COURSE anybody should get away from such abuser- we all would say that- reality is that even 'rich' people with the means to move on financially can get stuck in these situations.
I recommend a visit to your local Domestic Violence center- let these women tell you just how difficult it is to free yourself from abuse.

It's a VERY tough situation. But yet, a mother's first and last responsibility is to her children. It MUST be, however difficult it is.

I actually doubt that Katherine Jackson herself is especially thrilled with the way things went. I know that it's not the popular thing to say, but a woman who is yelling at a violent man to "stop it" is actually not condoning or encouraging abuse- she's offering herself up for the beating as a deflector shield. Not a situation many people understand. The fact that a woman has not been able to stop an abuser, is absolutely not akin to happily 'let it happen'.

I DO understand the situation, very, very well. We will have to agree to disagree. Life isn't always fair, and some things are so difficult as to seem impossible. But yet, a mother's responsibility IS to her children, first. Not only to keep them safe, as the only safety-net the children may have, but also to break the cycle of abuse. Michael managed to break that cycle. I doubt that the other brothers have. And there is also LaToya, who found herself in a terribly abusive situation. That also, fits the pattern. Boys who are abused have a high probability of becoming abusers. And girls? They often become women who MARRY them. So, agree to disagree, and leave it.
 
I have dealt exactly with these dynamics, both PERSONALLY and professionally.

Not a single counselor in that field would EVER go and blame the partner/wife of a violent abuser as standing by to 'let things happen'.
Most counselors in the field deal with mothers day in and day out and do not blame the woman in front of them as the one 'letting things happen."
On the contrary they would have noticed how Michael actually mentioned his mother objecting to the abuse- meaning that she was NOT OKAY with it. Any counselor in that field understands the responsibility that mothers have- they are also trained to leave judgement at the door if the person to be counseled does NOT follow advice.

Counselors are also very well of the changes in legislature through the decades and each state.
Women in the 50 and 60ies were at a huge disadvantage when it came to protective orders, emergency protective orders- or a safe place to go. These places did not exist.
Counselors know better than to judge women and mothers as complices in a time when legal recourse wasn't even in its infancy.


Agree to disagree.

____________________________________
General statement: If you or anyone finds themselves in the situation of violence of any kind- DO NOT HESITATE to ask for HELP. NOBODY will judge you.

If someone judges you as 'co-guilty', ask for a superior until the issue is solved.

Judgement by those working the field of domestic violence is highly inappropriate and not the job of a counselor. Counselors will try to help you- and will not judge you for not being able to follow "common sense advice"- they will rather ask if there are reasons such as being held hostage financially, guilt, fear for safety etc that keeps you from leaving such a relationship.

If you need help in the US- 1800 799 SAFE. (7233)
http://www.thehotline.org
 
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As I said, I HAVE encountered exactly this situation, both personally and professionally. I am not going to discuss further.

(edit) I'll edit this to say that I am an adult survivor of childhood abuse. The damage can be mitigated in the adult, but some damage is permanent, and can be generational. A mother's responsibility is to the CHILD. That is the obligation that is taken on with becoming a parent. I can forgive, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a FAIL. Because it WAS. And I believe that Katherine failed, too, in what is nearly a sacred covenant between parent and child or children. My position on this will be unchanging, because I have LIVED IT.
 
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Yeh didnt michael say himself that marlon got it the most frm joe on some interview...? When michael was talking bout the abuse from joe, he wasnt saying "i got it the most" he was saying that when joe got to them it was bad real bad
 
Autumn II;3605748 said:
If we can believe the Schmuley tapes (and I think we can . . . ), stripping a child naked, oiling his body so that the strokes of a belt hurt WORSE, and then whipping him, IS child-abuse, and not in any conceivable way, a question of "perceptions." The perception of any rational and honest person would be, YES, that is SEVERE child abuse.

And Joe’s brutality didn’t stop there. Michael said he was thrown up against walls, tripped, and beaten with ironing cords until he was covered in welts from head to toe. No matter how loud Jermaine may refer to this form of violence being “discipline” the law recognizes it as ABUSE! Anytime a person is in so much fear of a spouse or a parent that they become ill and regurgitate when that person comes near they have been abused. I’m so angry at Jermaine for trying to neutralize and invalidate his brother’s painfull, hellish childhood... It’s sick and very wrong on so many levels.
 
Yeh didnt michael say himself that marlon got it the most frm joe on some interview...? When michael was talking bout the abuse from joe, he wasnt saying "i got it the most" he was saying that when joe got to them it was bad real bad

He said that in the 1993 interview with Oprah. What he ACTUALLY said was, "Marlon got it worse for things during rehearsals." Apparently he was the only one who fought back, or ran. And that when Joe caught him, "it was bad, real bad."

In the Bashir interview he said he was beaten with a belt, or with ironing cords, and that he was thrown up against a wall.
 
As I said, I HAVE encountered exactly this situation, both personally and professionally. I am not going to discuss further.

(edit) I'll edit this to say that I am an adult survivor of childhood abuse. The damage can be mitigated in the adult, but some damage is permanent, and can be generational. A mother's responsibility is to the CHILD. That is the obligation that is taken on with becoming a parent. I can forgive, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a FAIL. Because it WAS. And I believe that Katherine failed, too, in what is nearly a sacred covenant between parent and child or children. My position on this will be unchanging, because I have LIVED IT.

Autumn sorry for the abuse you had to go through. My aunt was also abused by her husband butshe never allowed him to hit her children. When my older cousins were in high school they started working and with what they made and my aunt's money theymoved to another house and left him. Henever touched her again. With time her husband changed and they all were by hisside when he died. Yes, a mother's dutyis to protect their children.
I read somewhere that Katherine hit and left Joe when shefound out he was unfaithful. I wonder why "the lioness" didn't reactthat same way when her "cubs" were hurt?
 
He said that in the 1993 interview with Oprah. What he ACTUALLY said was, "Marlon got it worse for things during rehearsals." Apparently he was the only one who fought back, or ran. And that when Joe caught him, "it was bad, real bad."

In the Bashir interview he said he was beaten with a belt, or with ironing cords, and that he was thrown up against a wall.

And in Taraborrelli's book, Michael is quoted as saying he got it the most because he fought back the most.

I think people are forgetting that the abuse with the boys played out over an approximately 20 year span.

It makes perfect sense that during some periods, one son it got worse than the other. Then, at other times, another son. At the recording studio, maybe Michael got hit more, at home, someone else, when practicising dance, yet another son, etc.

My point is: Joe may have targeted one particular son at different times over 20 years. Add to that, it's a situation experienced by 5 different sons - they are all bound to have a different understanding of the events.

So we may not be able to conclusively say as to who got it the most over a 20 year span. What we can say is that Michael is the only one who was able to publicly articulate his constant sense of pain over the abuse.
 
Autumn sorry for the abuse you had to go through. My aunt was also abused by her husband butshe never allowed him to hit her children. When my older cousins were in high school they started working and with what they made and my aunt's money theymoved to another house and left him. Henever touched her again. With time her husband changed and they all were by hisside when he died. Yes, a mother's dutyis to protect their children.
I read somewhere that Katherine hit and left Joe when shefound out he was unfaithful. I wonder why "the lioness" didn't reactthat same way when her "cubs" were hurt?

I think the thing we have to take in mind is the religious angle and the decade Katherine grew up in.

She came from a strict religion and a decade that dictated that males were the superior sex. A woman's job was to serve a man and bear his children. That man also ruled over the household, that includes the kids. So the man can do what he wants with his kids, including beating them. This was particular, and still is to an extent, particular bad in the black committees.

I can't properly explain it, but I suggest you all read or watch the Color Purple. It gives an insight of the relationship between black man and woman back in the day.

What I'm trying to say is that Katherine is a person of her time. In her day, women simply didn't stand up to their husband, even if they abuse their kids, even sexually in some cases. If you did undermine your husband, he could beat you and no one would say anything. You also couldn't leave the man because such acts were frowned upon, even if the woman had good reason to leave. Just look a Shirley Temple when she got a divorce.

This isn't defending or justifying her actions, but it does explain them.

As for why she tried to leave Joe once he had cheated on her. Since it was the 80s, divorce were seen as more okay. Joe also couldn't use her kids to emotional blackmail her. See, some women actually lost their kids if they tried to divorce. However, she still stood with the man for whatever reason.

Abuse is complicated, which is why it hides in the shadows. Truth is, we will never know the entire story of that family.
 
^Aquarius - I've said this before. It's because Katherine saw nothing wrong with it. She believed in the Bible philosophy, 'Spare the rod, and spoil the child.' To this day she defends Joseph's actions.

The same way she let Joseph beat her children, she did nothing to stop her son, Jermaine from beating his children. When Margaret Maldonado pleaded with her to do something, Katherine just quoted the Bible verse and turned away. This is probably another reason why Jermaine is defensive of his father's behaviour - he treated his own children the same way! In defending Joseph, he's defending himself.

I believe if Katherine truly couldn't bare to see her tiny children get harassed and beaten, she would've done a lot more than scream, 'Stop.'

Ramona - Katherine was gutsy for her time then. She did stood up to Joseph one time, but only when she was at the receiving end. She hit and injured him with a bottle warmer, and threatened to leave. He never laid a hand on her again. Why couldn't she do the same for her children?
 
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Autumn II;3605939 said:
As I said, I HAVE encountered exactly this situation, both personally and professionally. I am not going to discuss further.

(edit) I'll edit this to say that I am an adult survivor of childhood abuse. The damage can be mitigated in the adult, but some damage is permanent, and can be generational. A mother's responsibility is to the CHILD. That is the obligation that is taken on with becoming a parent. I can forgive, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a FAIL. Because it WAS. And I believe that Katherine failed, too, in what is nearly a sacred covenant between parent and child or children. My position on this will be unchanging, because I have LIVED IT.

A mother’s true instant is to protect her child at all cost and standing by year after year yelling STOP without removing the child from danger is more than failure it’s complete enabling of the abuser in carrying out his/her crime. After the boys started making money Katherine was no longer an economic situation where she had to watch her children being brutalized. I’m sure since Motown didn’t like Joe anyway they would have helped her escape and if not she should have thought of another way. I hate the double standard here. If Michael had been a girl being sexually abused by her father with Katherine’s knowledge KJ’s simply yelling STOP would be considered criminal but because Michael was beaten within an inch of his life on a regular bases Katherine’s passiveness is considered acceptable? Understandable??? NO!
 
Victory22;3605989 said:
A mother’s true instant is to protect her child at all cost and standing by year after year yelling STOP without removing the child from danger is more than failure it’s complete enabling of the abuser in carrying out his/her crime. After the boys started making money Katherine was no longer an economic situation where she had to watch her children being brutalized. I’m sure since Motown didn’t like Joe anyway they would have helped her escape and if not she should have thought of another way. I hate the double standard here. If Michael had been a girl being sexually abused by her father with Katherine’s knowledge KJ’s simply yelling STOP would be considered criminal but because Michael was beaten within an inch of his life on a regular bases Katherine’s passiveness is considered acceptable? Understandable??? NO!

Absolutely. Those reasons given -- that Katherine was religious and believed certain things, or that it was "the era," or "the culture," or she was afraid of being beaten herself, and whatever else? Those EXPLAIN it, but do not excuse it. There have been women -- religious women -- who have put their children FIRST. If the cycle isn't broken, by getting the children OUT of the situation, the beat goes on, and on, and on, throughout generations. . . . . Michael broke the cycle, but that is a rarity. Katherine's behavior? That's called ENABLING.

In the current era, teachers, health-care providers, therapists, and others, are required by LAW to report child abuse. To not report what they've witnessed, is criminal. What about a mother who sees this going on, throughout the years? And does not act? There may be reasons, and yes, it's complicated. Life isn't always fair, is it? I still think she tolerated the abuse of her children, for the MONEY.
 
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