MJ's Team Shutting out & Blockin the Family?

[elusive moonwalker]

seems to me maybe thome or whoever agreed to the xtra dates that took it to 50 without asking mj. as u say on the day of sale it went from 10-50 yet mj was surprised when he got told u are doing the 50 when he woke up the next morn. he knew about the 31 cause of the contract.but the xtra dates would only be added if the 31 sold out. so it had to be agreed apon b4 the tickets went on sale.who agreed to it is the question

 

[funkyfish]

I always figured MJ wanted to do more then 10 dates anyway, but they had to announce 10 to test the waters. Imagine if they had announced 50 and they hadnt sold out. But i do agree that he possibly didnt want to do as much a 50, theres a big jump between 30 and 50, looks like someone got over exited when they saw how fast the tickets were selling and decided to go for 50.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

yeah mj agreed to do a minimum of 18 shows bar the contract. the whole 10 thing was pr. as it normally goes with these things. anounce them when they sell out say xtra dates added cause of amazing demand etc when u were planning that amount all along.

 

[Moddie777]

Yes, I DID say that. I do remember that some fans thought it was great, that he was "divesting" and essentially starting over. I couldn't see that then, and even less so, now. There were photos of his children. . . those children he'd tried so hard to protect from the public eye? Why would he DO that? (turns out, he wouldn't) There was art-work, and there were awards, and gifts from fans, and other things that were part of his legacy. To see them at auction would mean that his material legacy -- the belongings of the world's greatest entertainer -- would be dispersed. That made NO sense to me. That sometimes happens after a person dies, in an estate sale, and that alarmed me.

When that auction news started up, I became very concerned and wondered WHAT was going on behind the scenes? I believe I posted to that effect. Then there was that strangeness of threats to the auction house. Michael filed court papers saying he was being "robbed." His language was VERY strong. To me that whole mess indicated some major disarray was going on behind the scenes. I became very worried for Michael's well-being, because of it.

I too remember your fears on this subject.

I believe you are right about the "disarray" going on in the background during this time. Actually the word disarray is an understatement ( imo).

The crooks around Michael were closing in and positioning themselves for what was to come.

Michael got word to his family, that Tohme had taken some items WITHOUT his permission.
Michael Jackson still in 2008 and 2009 would call on at least 2 different family members when he got in a mess and couldn't get out of it alone. But let the media tell it, these particular family members were doing it on their own and up to no good. No where was it reported how Michael would call them to come to his home and have secret meetings with them, asking them for their input and guidance when he FEARED the people around him weren't BEING HONEST with him about something.

If more fans knew just how much Michael Jackson depended on certain members of his own family to help him with the crooks around him in the latter times, maybe then there would be more of an understanding towards these individuals and where the truth really lies.

Again, as we have said before in this thread, there are reports from various sources before and since his death ALL telling us the EXACT same things about "blocking" and "manipulation" coming from MJ's team in an attempt to control him and take over his affairs.

Discounting these reports with our Michael now Dead would be a mistake if the truth surrounding his Murder are what we are after.

The question I asked after his Murder: "MJ's team shutting out and Blockin the family?"

In the months following the murder a few people more closer to MJ than us fan can ever be have all answered this question with a resounding "YES". (reportedly).

 

[Autumn II]

Thanks, Moddie777. Hunches and intuitions are not "proofs," but neither should they be entirely discounted. I had a strong intuition, based on the auction and other things, that Michael was at risk, once again, from people who were around him who were snakes. My posting history PROVES that I stated this "intuition."

I watched carefully, but what can anyone DO? I had intuitions about other things, too. I was terribly alarmed by the photos of Michael coming and going from the medical clinic. He looked so THIN to me, and sometimes his eyes were vague as he was leaving the clinic. People see what they want to see, I guess? Most people posted about how "great he looked," and so on. I saw a man who at least needed to put on weight to withstand the stress of the concerts, as he always had done before. He looked more like he usually did at the end of a stressful tour, not at the beginning. I wondered WHY so many clinic visits? Surely not endless "cosmetic procedures?" That in itself would have been stressful (if even true) and probably not appropriate nor healthful given that rehearsals were ongoing and the date of the concerts came ever-closer? I became very concerned about his personal circumstances (whoever was around him and manipulating things), and also his physical condition.

I didn't arrange to get tickets for TII. I watched as fans bought tickets, set up their flights and hotel reservations. My STRONG intuition was that these concerts would never happen. I didn't post about that because: 1. I was on staff, and 2. didn't want to cause people to DOUBT that he could do it. (I did tell a few friends about my fears and that I was concerned about their arrangements to go to the concerts, but that made no difference. I'm sure some lost money from flights and hotels.) Yet, I felt that I knew, with about 95% certainty, that these concerts would never happen. Just intuition. No "proof" at all. I thought he would cancel, though. Not DIE. It feels absolutely terrible to have been right, and I remain grief-stricken. The concerts did NOT happen. . . . . . .

 

[Moddie777]

Victoria83, I had your same fears about the photo's of MJ coming and going from the doctor office and the pics of he and tohme and the ones of MJ and his security. These people seemed to have more control of Michael Jackson than he had of himself. The body language in so many of those pics were very disturbing to me and when I posted my fears and my interpretation of them one time on this board, I was scolded for doing so. I UNDERSTAND NOW, WHAT THE MOD WAS TRYING TO PREVENT: Worry among the fans. Afterall my interpretation could have been wrong but sadly I believe it was not.

A picture speaks a thousand words and so many of the pics with MJ and his handlers in 2008 and 2009 tells a story of a man who felt powerless among his own staff. Michael seemed to shrink( withdrawn, aloof and timid) in many photo's with Tohme. This told me how he actually felt about this man.

Michael has been trying to reveal to us the truth for a very long, long time.

 

[Autumn II]

Victoria83, I had your same fears about the photo's of MJ coming and going from the doctor office and the pics of he and tohme and the ones of MJ and his security. These people seemed to have more control of Michael Jackson than he had of himself. The body language in so many of those pics were very disturbing to me and when I posted my fears and my interpretation of them one time on this board, I was scolded for doing so. I UNDERSTAND NOW, WHAT THE MOD WAS TRYING TO PREVENT: Worry among the fans. Afterall my interpretation could have been wrong but sadly I believe it was not.

A picture speaks a thousand words and so many of the pics with MJ and his handlers in 2008 and 2009 tells a story of a man who felt powerless among his own staff. Michael seemed to shrink( withdrawn, aloof and timid) in many photo's with Tohme. This told me how he actually felt about this man.

Michael has been trying to reveal to us the truth for a very long, long time.

Yes, the mod was trying to prevent worry among the fans, and also to avoid discussion of Michael's health. Hindsight is 20/20?

I've tried to find that thread with the photos of Tohme gripping Michael's arm, but they've either been archived now or have vanished into some sort of internet nether-world. Maybe someone can find them with a Google search? These were photos of Michael in London for the announcements, and of him at the theater. I've never seen a body-guard before be so PHYSICAL with him, or look so grim. Of course now we know that Tohme was NOT a body-guard, but someone else entirely. He was clutching Michael by the upper-arm in nearly all the photos. Michaels jacket was bunched up under his grip, and I'm sure it at least left finger-print marks on his arm. I've never EVER seen anything like this in any previous photos of Michael, not even during the trial. During the trial the body-guards were sometimes supporting him physically (because of his back-injury), and they did look concerned about him. The London photos made me afraid for Michael. . .

Also in looking at the photos (I'm educated in cultural anthropology, and "we" rely on photographic data sometimes, ok?), I saw NO communication between them. They were not making eye-contact, and there was never anything in Tohme's expression, or in Michael's, to indicate that they had any sort of personal relationship.

A body-guard is there to protect someone from harm. Yet, the person who hired the body-guards (the person who needs protecting?) should be able to set parameters about what is or is not permitted in terms of roughness and personal invasions. When I later found out that it was AEG paying the body-guards (and WHERE did Tohme's income originate?) I was even more alarmed. If Michael was not the one paying Tohme or the body-guards, then he'd lost the ability to set limits with them. I'm not sure why this is not completely obvious by now?

 

[MJJLaugh]

Yes, the mod was trying to prevent worry among the fans, and also to avoid discussion of Michael's health. Hindsight is 20/20?

I've tried to find that thread with the photos of Tohme gripping Michael's arm, but they've either been archived now or have vanished into some sort of internet nether-world. Maybe someone can find them with a Google search? These were photos of Michael in London for the announcements, and of him at the theater. I've never seen a body-guard before be so PHYSICAL with him, or look so grim. Of course now we know that Tohme was NOT a body-guard, but someone else entirely. He was clutching Michael by the upper-arm in nearly all the photos. Michaels jacket was bunched up under his grip, and I'm sure it at least left finger-print marks on his arm. I've never EVER seen anything like this in any previous photos of Michael, not even during the trial. During the trial the body-guards were sometimes supporting him physically (because of his back-injury), and they did look concerned about him. The London photos made me afraid for Michael. . .

Also in looking at the photos (I'm educated in cultural anthropology, and "we" rely on photographic data sometimes, ok?), I saw NO communication between them. They were not making eye-contact, and there was never anything in Tohme's expression, or in Michael's, to indicate that they had any sort of personal relationship.

A body-guard is there to protect someone from harm. Yet, the person who hired the body-guards (the person who needs protecting?) should be able to set parameters about what is or is not permitted in terms of roughness and personal invasions. When I later found out that it was AEG paying the body-guards (and WHERE did Tohme's income originate?) I was even more alarmed. If Michael was not the one paying Tohme or the body-guards, then he'd lost the ability to set limits with them. I'm not sure why this is not completely obvious by now?

Victoria83, I have recently seen these type of photos you are discussing here. I might have saved some to my computer. I will have a look for you.
I too noticed that the group of bodyguards seemed to be closing in on Michael. It didn´t give off the vibe of protection but rather of controlling and keeping others from contacting him in any way, shape or form, in a very aggresive manner towards Michael, not respectful at all...
Very disturbing indeed...

 

[SexyMamaJo]

Hmm, why did Tohme return the 5 mil? I also find it interesting that AEG employees knew about MJ's death before the press knew, very strange.

 

[Autumn II]

Hmm, why did Tohme return the 5 mil? I also find it interesting that AEG employees knew about MJ's death before the press knew, very strange.

I think Tohme returned the 5 mil because its "lack" must have turned up in some initial effort at an accounting of Michael's money and he didn't want to be arrested for "theft?" And/or someone else knew about it, and again, he didn't want to be arrested for theft?

Another sketchy thing is why he didn't return the money immediately when he was fired? Michael had a history of cutting off all contact with fired employees, and we have no indication that Tohme would have been any different. Plus, it's pretty obvious that Tohme was fired because of the auction fiasco, and I can't imagine that they had anything approaching a cordial relationship after that. (Especially since Michael said he was afraid of him.) Tohme should have returned the money immediately after being terminated. Did Michael even KNOW about it? Tohme could sign checks and make deals, and he either did or did not tell Michael he was sitting on a nest-egg of Michael's money!

I think AEG knew about Michael's death before the press because of the "insiders," i.e. the body-guards, staff, Murray, probably DiLeo, were all paid by AEG and they reported to AEG execs. Michael was NOT their employer. It seems now to have been a very risky situation for Michael. . . . . .

 

[Asedora]

I had a very strong feeling too that something is going to happen with Michael. I always read one internet media (not in English) and I know exactly who owns it. This person is a criminal in my country of origin and he cannot come back there and do business because he is under criminal investigations regarding some political issues and millions of dollars stolen. He has an Israeli citizenship and has to stay there now. I know when the media he owns publish some weird staff about stars it is an indication for me that something is going on. They did it for Anna Nicole Smith. They started to publish weird articles about Michael since 2007. Most of this garbage was about his health conditions. I remember reading a BS article about Michael having lung and liver transplants and the article came out with the worst picture of Michael they possibly could find. They obviously had fun publishing this garbage.
It was indication for me that something will happen with Michael soon but I didn’t know when. When his shows were announced I already had a strong feeling that something will happen. I do not know why Michael agreed to do those shows. Was he pushed to do it or was it his own decision? Did he have a choice? It looks like he did not. Are we going to see justice for Michael?

 

[Soundmind]

they knew before anyone because Frank and Delio arrived immediatley after mj arrived at the hospital and the staff at the hospital told them mj was gone but they were going to keep working on him till his mother arrived . nothing strange or anything .

 

[Mechi]

CPR in the hospital is usually done for no longer than 30 minutes... I've learnt that basically after ten minutes of unseccessfull cpr the brain is death... and after 30 minutes there's that serious heart damage also that surviving (even in a permanent coma) is not possible anymore, so cpr is ended after that period of time.
Doctors are needed somewhere else.

While I'd understand that it might is different with a celebrity... there's not much sense in performing cpr on anyone with all possible medical aid much longer.

Soundmind - Frank and Delio??? who do you mean?

 

[Mechi]

I've tried to find that thread with the photos of Tohme gripping Michael's arm, but they've either been archived now or have vanished into some sort of internet nether-world. Maybe someone can find them with a Google search? These were photos of Michael in London for the announcements, and of him at the theater. I've never seen a body-guard before be so PHYSICAL with him, or look so grim. Of course now we know that Tohme was NOT a body-guard, but someone else entirely. He was clutching Michael by the upper-arm in nearly all the photos. Michaels jacket was bunched up under his grip, and I'm sure it at least left finger-print marks on his arm. I've never EVER seen anything like this in any previous photos of Michael, not even during the trial. During the trial the body-guards were sometimes supporting him physically (because of his back-injury), and they did look concerned about him. The London photos made me afraid for Michael. . .

http://www.mjjcommunity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2185915&highlight=Thome#post2185915

post 332 is showing what I think you mean? But you're right, there were even worse pics and those are gone!

 

[Soundmind]

CPR in the hospital is usually done for no longer than 30 minutes... I've learnt that basically after ten minutes of unseccessfull cpr the brain is death... and after 30 minutes there's that serious heart damage also that surviving (even in a permanent coma) is not possible anymore, so cpr is ended after that period of time.
Doctors are needed somewhere else.

While I'd understand that it might is different with a celebrity... there's not much sense in performing cpr on anyone with all possible medical aid much longer.

Soundmind - Frank and Delio??? who do you mean?

sorry Frank and philips, Frank would not have lied about the doctors waiting for katherine to pronounce mj dead , we all know MJ was dead for hours at the time . Maybe it has to do with the procedures that he must be moved to the coroner office within a specific period of time or whatever, MJ was dead way before 2:26 pm .

I see that logic is always missing from many posts here , the man was dead, why would it be odd that the doctors or nurses would tell his manager he was dead ?

 

[jrsfan]

Hmm, why did Tohme return the 5 mil? I also find it interesting that AEG employees knew about MJ's death before the press knew, very strange.

Tohme returned the money right after Joe said stuff questioning Thome on LKL is what I remember.

link:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0907/20/lkl.01.html

JACKSON: Of course I do. I want to find out all I can about his situation there with certain people. For instance, Dr. Thome...

KING: All right.

JACKSON: Dr. Thome, he's no doctor. And he was fired by Michael and this is a terrible guy, he got about nine -- eight or nine different aliases.

KING: We're going to do a lot more on this. Thank you both very much.

Joe Jackson and Leonard Rowe, thank you.

New Jackson Docs -- Millions Recovered

Posted Jul 24th 2009 5:50PM by TMZ Staff

We've now obtained documents filed yesterday in the Michael Jackson probate case.

The Special Administrators have recovered $5.5 million in cash from a former financial advisor. The documents do not name the advisor.

In the documents, the administrators predict Jackson has enough cash to pay off his estimated $400 million in debts -- and still have money left over for his heirs.

The docs also say Jackson's children are the beneficiaries of an insurance trust established by Michael Jackson. The proceeds have not yet been collected, which explains why lawyers for Katherine Jackson have asked for a temporary allowance.

The Special Administrators expect to generate tens of millions of dollars of revenue from various business deals that are now in the works.

 

[Soundmind]

the last individuals AEG is going to be afraid of are joe, latoya rowe and randy , there is a mountain of evidence against these four people when it came to mj . I have a feeling these four people will be hammered with a lawsuit that will leave them more broke than they already are .

 

[Mechi]

sorry Frank and philips, Frank would not have lied about the doctors waiting for katherine to pronounce mj dead , we all know MJ was dead for hours at the time . Maybe it has to do with the procedures that he must be moved to the coroner office within a specific period of time or whatever, MJ was dead way before 2:26 pm .

I see that logic is always missing from many posts here , the man was dead, why would it be odd that the doctors or nurses would tell his manager he was dead ?

Well we all know from series like ER there is this pretty dramatical 'time of death' call which has to be said by a doctor. In Germany I know it is exactly like that too, it has to be like that.
I'd really like to know who was the doctor and which was the time given when Michael was really finally pronounced dead officially.
Then I'd like to see this compared to the results of the official autopsy report.
Gosh I really hope forensics there will do their job CORRECTLY!

Btw do we know when and by whom Philips was informed and when he was in the hospital? or did DiLeo pick him up? when did they arrive together?

 

[Mechi]

Hmm, why did Tohme return the 5 mil? I also find it interesting that AEG employees knew about MJ's death before the press knew, very strange.

Who's stating this where? Do you have a source for this?
I'd be very interested.

 

[Soundmind]

they went to the house once rumours about an ambulance entering the gates of the mansion started , they were all the time on the phone talking to each other, philips arrived first and was told mj was moved to the hospital , then he went to the hospital and they arrived both there . they were the first people to arrive , Frank was telling Phillips I believe he is gonna make it , but a nurse came and told them it was too late and they were not going to pronounce him dead till his mother's arrival .

Mechi MJ was dead before the paramedics came , they themselves said that , the chef of LA fire department told CNN , they did everything but they knew he was gone .

 

[Soundmind]

Who's stating this where? Do you have a source for this?
I'd be very interested.

Toni Braxton said she knew MJ was dead before the press because she was working with AEG at the time, and I explained how AEG knew , Frank and phillips were the first people to be told mj was gone even before he was declared dead by the doctors .

 

[Autumn II]

Toni Braxton said she knew MJ was dead before the press because she was working with AEG at the time, and I explained how AEG knew , Frank and phillips were the first people to be told mj was gone even before he was declared dead by the doctors .

I guess the family wasn't as important as Michael's employers, and were kept out of the loop early-on? Shameful.

 

[Mechi]

Mechi MJ was dead before the paramedics came , they themselves said that , the chef of LA fire department told CNN , they did everything but they knew he was gone .

Yeah I know but I know also when paramedics are told by doctor this or that they are very likely to just following for that this doctor will have to discuss questionable stuff with a fellow doctor.
The question is why was Michael declared dead so late that day at all when everybody knew he was dead long before???

Toni Braxton is not that much of my interest. I would like to know who told Frank DiLeo and Randy Phillips and even more when. I would also like to know when (timeframe if possible please) they've been at the hospital for how long. When did Thome arrive there? Who told him and when? I'd like to read a bit about that.

I mean considering that in case family members are those who have to decide for actions maybe keeping Michael alive even when brain dead and all questions like that (in germany that would be the parents first and only then the syllables as long as children are not adults)... I'm wondering the family obviously weren't informed first.

But yeah well maybe because everybody knew for very long already that Michael was dead.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

The question is why was Michael declared dead so late that day at all when everybody knew he was dead long before???

one report said they waited for katherine to arrive at the hos

 

[Soundmind]

Yeah I know but I know also when paramedics are told by doctor this or that they are very likely to just following for that this doctor will have to discuss questionable stuff with a fellow doctor.
The question is why was Michael declared dead so late that day at all when everybody knew he was dead long before???

Toni Braxton is not that much of my interest. I would like to know who told Frank DiLeo and Randy Phillips and even more when. I would also like to know when (timeframe if possible please) they've been at the hospital for how long. When did Thome arrive there? Who told him and when? I'd like to read a bit about that.

I mean considering that in case family members are those who have to decide for actions maybe keeping Michael alive even when brain dead and all questions like that (in germany that would be the parents first and only then the syllables as long as children are not adults)... I'm wondering the family obviously weren't informed first.

But yeah well maybe because everybody knew for very long already that Michael was dead.

MJ was declared dead because at the house the one with authority to declare him dead was murray, the usual thing to do for paramedics is to get as fast as possible at the incident scene get the patient to the hospital as fast as you can , this is what happens in the US, unlike France where paramedics work on the patient at the scene until he/she is stable , the delay in moving Princess Diana to the hospital caused her death .

Murray DETERMINED and FORCED the paramedics to work on MJ at the mansion , that delay was to confuse the coroner even more .

as for the UCLA doctors they waited for his mother to arrive .

Fran and phillips were told by the staff at the gate mj was moved to the hospital , they arrived and waited for someone to tell them what happened, a nurse came and told them it was too late m he was gone and they would not declare him dead until his mother arrived , that was definitely before 20:26 pm .

I was on kop discussion board when the ambulance entered the gates of the mansion , we got it from a fan who was staying there , it was on twitter , then we went crazy , we stayed over 10 to 15 minutes waiting for an update till Ja confirmed there was an ambulance there and indeed it was not a rumour .

people started calling members of the family ,frank , phillips ...etc . and everyone run to the house and then to the hospital .

His family were not informed by the hospital because they did not arrive at the time , the hospital waited for katherine to come to declare him dead so what do you want to know more , probably they did not want her to know from the radio.

 

[funkyfish]

Is it true that murray refused to sign the death certificate at the hospital? Any ideas on why he wouldn't?

 

[Mechi]

Fran and phillips were told by the staff at the gate mj was moved to the hospital , they arrived and waited for someone to tell them what happened, a nurse came and told them it was too late m he was gone and they would not declare him dead until his mother arrived , that was definitely before 20:26 pm .

So is that common over in the US, that ppl who are clearly dead are not declared dead before their relatives appear???

 

[Mechi]

people started calling members of the family ,frank , phillips ...etc . and everyone run to the house and then to the hospital .

So do we know who "ppl" were in case particularly of DiLeo, Phillips and Thome?

I guess I'll go and read all those interviews again. I'd like to know.

 

[elusive moonwalker]

s it true that murray refused to sign the death certificate at the hospital? Any ideas on why he wouldn't?

yeah thats true. not sure what the implications are . as soundmindsaid we know why he didnt want to declare at the house. but the hospital?

So is that common over in the US, that ppl who are clearly dead are not declared dead before their relatives appear???

i would think its quite common.in the uk aswell. and this was MJ can u imagine. i know they want to save everyone but im sure ppl were going keep trying even if it were obvious already. and if they knew katherine was on her way. its killing me talking about this

 

[elusive moonwalker]

So do we know who "ppl" were in case particularly of DiLeo, Phillips and Thome?

some fans who were at the house said they rang joe.re the others who knows. all it takes is for someone to be waching t.v and ring philips and say...